Worldwide Beekeeping
Beekeeping => Beekeeping 101 => Topic started by: CpnObvious on June 01, 2014, 06:19:04 pm
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Hive1 & Hive2: Package Installed 052514
Hive3: Package Installed 052614
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Hive 1- Day 7 - 060114: First check since install. Went through each frame. Didn't see the queen, didn't see eggs. Saw some pollen and plenty of nectar/syrup. NOTE: Going through pictures we found the queen! Went back to hive to grab a piece of comb that came out with the queen cage. Looking closer at it I see some eggs in it, so she is laying!
Hive 2 - Day 7 - 060114: First check since install. Found the queen! Plenty of syrup/nectar, pollen, eggs. This is the hive that has gone through the most syrup... by FAR.
Hive 3 - Day 6 - 060114: First check since install. Found the queen! Seems as though the cells have some pollen, but are primarily filled with nothing but syrup/nectar... No eggs? 3 queen cups on one side of one frame.
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This will be where I upload photos to: http://s1211.photobucket.com/user/CpnObvious/library/Bees (http://s1211.photobucket.com/user/CpnObvious/library/Bees)
Will post photograph thumbnails once I upload them.
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Hive1
(https://worldwidebeekeeping.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1211.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fcc424%2FCpnObvious%2FBees%2FHive1_Day7_060114_34.jpg&hash=7583ac60af644ce64cce9357b29dfa40e841a73e) (http://s1211.photobucket.com/user/CpnObvious/media/Bees/Hive1_Day7_060114_34.jpg.html)
(https://worldwidebeekeeping.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1211.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fcc424%2FCpnObvious%2FBees%2FHive1_Day7_060114_43.jpg&hash=df5774378db4353280ed1f7768f9c4bfcdc2a0f5) (http://s1211.photobucket.com/user/CpnObvious/media/Bees/Hive1_Day7_060114_43.jpg.html)
(https://worldwidebeekeeping.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1211.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fcc424%2FCpnObvious%2FBees%2FHive1_Day7_060114_47.jpg&hash=829fdbb3c5828242ad65e30aef7f0a8763543125) (http://s1211.photobucket.com/user/CpnObvious/media/Bees/Hive1_Day7_060114_47.jpg.html)
(https://worldwidebeekeeping.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1211.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fcc424%2FCpnObvious%2FBees%2FHive1_Day7_060114_54.jpg&hash=08864ba546eebb08054dac8642933fa223d4942d) (http://s1211.photobucket.com/user/CpnObvious/media/Bees/Hive1_Day7_060114_54.jpg.html)
Her Royal Highness!
(https://worldwidebeekeeping.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1211.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fcc424%2FCpnObvious%2FBees%2FHive1_Day7_060114_56.jpg&hash=85d7b14c7e1e6e097ef5017344033c601bb54d31) (http://s1211.photobucket.com/user/CpnObvious/media/Bees/Hive1_Day7_060114_56.jpg.html)
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Hive2
(https://worldwidebeekeeping.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1211.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fcc424%2FCpnObvious%2FBees%2FHive2_Day7_060114_1.jpg&hash=b8cc52ff3db6d0f8e44c6eda5835b8c206cff40a) (http://s1211.photobucket.com/user/CpnObvious/media/Bees/Hive2_Day7_060114_1.jpg.html)
(https://worldwidebeekeeping.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1211.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fcc424%2FCpnObvious%2FBees%2FHive2_Day7_060114_6.jpg&hash=b955dd25d22dd6b69c9049e10d9712ac1fcfe8eb) (http://s1211.photobucket.com/user/CpnObvious/media/Bees/Hive2_Day7_060114_6.jpg.html)
(https://worldwidebeekeeping.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1211.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fcc424%2FCpnObvious%2FBees%2FHive2_Day7_060114_12.jpg&hash=428b6fd0f0744322f721d0d913aa52083ae8c040) (http://s1211.photobucket.com/user/CpnObvious/media/Bees/Hive2_Day7_060114_12.jpg.html)
Her Royal Highness!
(https://worldwidebeekeeping.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1211.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fcc424%2FCpnObvious%2FBees%2FHive2_Day7_060114_25.jpg&hash=bb83c2344477a20a36831e346676fc7788e03aaa) (http://s1211.photobucket.com/user/CpnObvious/media/Bees/Hive2_Day7_060114_25.jpg.html)
(https://worldwidebeekeeping.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1211.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fcc424%2FCpnObvious%2FBees%2FHive2_Day7_060114_30.jpg&hash=e876b41fb4b416538fec4ed915c2550d83e66459) (http://s1211.photobucket.com/user/CpnObvious/media/Bees/Hive2_Day7_060114_30.jpg.html)
(https://worldwidebeekeeping.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1211.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fcc424%2FCpnObvious%2FBees%2FHive2_Day7_060114_70.jpg&hash=8625fad15dcc15a81cffdc2006dff5d27b2f38ef) (http://s1211.photobucket.com/user/CpnObvious/media/Bees/Hive2_Day7_060114_70.jpg.html)
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Hive3
(https://worldwidebeekeeping.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1211.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fcc424%2FCpnObvious%2FBees%2FHive3_Day6_060114_7.jpg&hash=2d741d9a285ffccc24bb019774ea4543aca0e143) (http://s1211.photobucket.com/user/CpnObvious/media/Bees/Hive3_Day6_060114_7.jpg.html)
(https://worldwidebeekeeping.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1211.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fcc424%2FCpnObvious%2FBees%2FHive3_Day6_060114_10.jpg&hash=7f3e25fe2e07714e2b6fe0309938910a93bd0e87) (http://s1211.photobucket.com/user/CpnObvious/media/Bees/Hive3_Day6_060114_10.jpg.html)
(https://worldwidebeekeeping.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1211.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fcc424%2FCpnObvious%2FBees%2FHive3_Day6_060114_23.jpg&hash=f9876f8b37f956f68e905c8a4d35fec469ffc682) (http://s1211.photobucket.com/user/CpnObvious/media/Bees/Hive3_Day6_060114_23.jpg.html)
(https://worldwidebeekeeping.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1211.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fcc424%2FCpnObvious%2FBees%2FHive3_Day6_060114_28.jpg&hash=a518ad7bcfbb3406cd6f08dfe2bdb520155279bd) (http://s1211.photobucket.com/user/CpnObvious/media/Bees/Hive3_Day6_060114_28.jpg.html)
(https://worldwidebeekeeping.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1211.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fcc424%2FCpnObvious%2FBees%2FHive3_Day6_060114_33.jpg&hash=66d6292ab8c812cbd5c5b8f77ab419518db3e9cd) (http://s1211.photobucket.com/user/CpnObvious/media/Bees/Hive3_Day6_060114_33.jpg.html)
(https://worldwidebeekeeping.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1211.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fcc424%2FCpnObvious%2FBees%2FHive3_Day6_060114_36.jpg&hash=99d558c353134724a7960eb9f021c5e6b7a713dc) (http://s1211.photobucket.com/user/CpnObvious/media/Bees/Hive3_Day6_060114_36.jpg.html)
This frame had 3 queen cups...
(https://worldwidebeekeeping.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1211.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fcc424%2FCpnObvious%2FBees%2FHive3_Day6_060114_40.jpg&hash=f852d848e286307f631a4f3f9ee6fc6369a1e910) (http://s1211.photobucket.com/user/CpnObvious/media/Bees/Hive3_Day6_060114_40.jpg.html)
Her Royal Highness!
(https://worldwidebeekeeping.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1211.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fcc424%2FCpnObvious%2FBees%2FHive3_Day6_060114_47.jpg&hash=03d6e5179f6b9dd81d3c5e984a05e94c13730bc3) (http://s1211.photobucket.com/user/CpnObvious/media/Bees/Hive3_Day6_060114_47.jpg.html)
(https://worldwidebeekeeping.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1211.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fcc424%2FCpnObvious%2FBees%2FHive3_Day6_060114_50.jpg&hash=a8b81b40e7d40fb5f6e75cbada2ca07236877cbb) (http://s1211.photobucket.com/user/CpnObvious/media/Bees/Hive3_Day6_060114_50.jpg.html)
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You got some strange looking comb in some of those frames. I wonder why they are drawing it out like that? Is that new foundation you put in? In one of the first pictures, it looked sorta like there wasn't much wax on the side of the foundation that wasn't drawn yet.
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TBone, With the exception a total of 4 plastic frames that I was given with honey in them (not in pictures) Everything was virgin foundation. A lesson I learned was that I should have removed the queen cages long before day 6/7, or put her between the foundations, not the top of the frames. Too much of a gap was created so they were filling it with comb. I felt very guilty removing it all. In Hive2, I actually put a chunk of it back because it had eggs in it. Which picture(s), in particular, are you referring to with weird comb?
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What you see there is exactly why I try to pull the cages on day three or four.. Watch my vid on installing packages I think I explain that in it..
You can use a rubber band and fit the queen cage below the top bar, and that allows the frames to be pushed completely together, this also allows you to install all ten frames to keep the ladies Honest in their comb building.
Looks like Cpn wasnt overwhelmed and dealt with the odd comb fine so No worries.
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I was looking at several pics but in Hive #3, pic number 6, it looks like they are trying to start comb separate from the foundation. I have had bees do that and it's annoying. I don't have many foundation frames anymore, but if I put one in and they start to draw comb like that, I take the foundation out and bingo, they start drawing on the frame perfectly. Don't know what it is, but sometimes they are picky.
But what you said about the queen cage makes sense. That's probably why it happened.
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Solid work! Looks like you already figured out the comb issue. My bees still build funky comb with proper spacing. I just stay on top of it and remove.
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Very nice looking bees...well done. Tom
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I'm sure I'm worrying & thinking about this too much... but could someone comment on my Hive3_Day6 comment up top? I know it's only been a week, but there sure seemed to be a LOT of syrup/nectar stored up. I find this exceptionally odd because they've barely touched the syrup. On BeeSource I came across this: "Filling the basic brood nest with nectar is a sure sign of hopelessly queenless. If the colony has a replacement queen in work, they will hold the brood nest open for the replacement." I found the queen, and she sure is plump. This is also the hive that had queen cups in it. Thoughts?
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In a well established hive 2 years or older that "may" be the case. Packages, nucs , swarms, etc trying to expand and explode are not as smart. They will take syrup or nectar until they run themselves out of the hive. Swap out a couple of frames with another hive to give them room again? Add another box? I have put a frame of nectar in the freezer, but it can be messy and drippy until frozen.. I have also simply shaken the daylights out of a nectar frame or three to get it out. the bees will clean it all up and re concentrate it when you put the frame back in leaving more room after the clean up.
Cpn.. I HAVE had bees nearly store themselves right out of the hive. It happens less often with older hives, but sometimes the flow is just SO GOOD they cant stop themselves.
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"On BeeSource I came across this: "Filling the basic brood nest with nectar is a sure sign of hopelessly queenless. If the colony has a replacement queen in work, they will hold the brood nest open for the replacement." I found the queen, and she sure is plump. This is also the hive that had queen cups in it. Thoughts?"
don't believe everything you read....
if they are not touching the syrup, get rid of it, there is a flow on, this will only contribute to 'overfeeding'. queen cups? bees build all sorts of queen cups for 'just in case' purposes, some more so than others. like scott said, add another deep to give them the space to store what's coming in.
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Week 2 checkups 060714:
I think Hive 3 is, by far, the strongest... But they all seem to be doing pretty well. Moving much faster than I expected. I had to order more foundation yesterday morning, should arrive tomorrow or Thursday, so I can add the second deep to each of them. Hives 1 & 3 only had 3 incomplete frames, and Hive 2 had 4.
Hive1 - Day 13:
(https://worldwidebeekeeping.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1211.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fcc424%2FCpnObvious%2FBees%2FHive1_Day13_060714_15.jpg&hash=88e63e304c7350ca0d900236c077f3fa212c21aa) (http://s1211.photobucket.com/user/CpnObvious/media/Bees/Hive1_Day13_060714_15.jpg.html)
(https://worldwidebeekeeping.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1211.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fcc424%2FCpnObvious%2FBees%2FHive1_Day13_060714_11.jpg&hash=95010d12fae09be4b6df014acaf9a3971361d7da) (http://s1211.photobucket.com/user/CpnObvious/media/Bees/Hive1_Day13_060714_11.jpg.html)
(https://worldwidebeekeeping.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1211.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fcc424%2FCpnObvious%2FBees%2FHive1_Day13_060714_22Q.jpg&hash=d0e2114c1d689ba37f87d9bdd544cbb28f6773a7) (http://s1211.photobucket.com/user/CpnObvious/media/Bees/Hive1_Day13_060714_22Q.jpg.html)
Hive 2 - Day 13:
(https://worldwidebeekeeping.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1211.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fcc424%2FCpnObvious%2FBees%2FHive2_Day13_060714_11.jpg&hash=804813c457f6e83242461d7ff8228cde4ecc9cbe) (http://s1211.photobucket.com/user/CpnObvious/media/Bees/Hive2_Day13_060714_11.jpg.html)
(https://worldwidebeekeeping.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1211.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fcc424%2FCpnObvious%2FBees%2FHive2_Day13_060714_24.jpg&hash=86d9860ad42c672b0201ca256bb815f4e139984d) (http://s1211.photobucket.com/user/CpnObvious/media/Bees/Hive2_Day13_060714_24.jpg.html)
I opted to leave the comb in the following two images in places. There was brood going on both sides of it. UGH!
(https://worldwidebeekeeping.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1211.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fcc424%2FCpnObvious%2FBees%2FHive2_Day13_060714_15.jpg&hash=55eaaaf27e25e58e27576c49129e932f08c1684c) (http://s1211.photobucket.com/user/CpnObvious/media/Bees/Hive2_Day13_060714_15.jpg.html)
(https://worldwidebeekeeping.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1211.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fcc424%2FCpnObvious%2FBees%2FHive2_Day13_060714_16.jpg&hash=2ad15f656bb8f5db22a67d6195c12a04cf7d3953) (http://s1211.photobucket.com/user/CpnObvious/media/Bees/Hive2_Day13_060714_16.jpg.html)
(https://worldwidebeekeeping.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1211.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fcc424%2FCpnObvious%2FBees%2FHive2_Day13_060714_23.jpg&hash=e2ead488590f1d9f2df8f35b2b90a9906f5d4e2b) (http://s1211.photobucket.com/user/CpnObvious/media/Bees/Hive2_Day13_060714_23.jpg.html)
Hive 3 - Day 12:
(https://worldwidebeekeeping.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1211.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fcc424%2FCpnObvious%2FBees%2FHive3_Day12_060714_8.jpg&hash=26115554643b9a738932da461943c278a138cdf5) (http://s1211.photobucket.com/user/CpnObvious/media/Bees/Hive3_Day12_060714_8.jpg.html)
(https://worldwidebeekeeping.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1211.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fcc424%2FCpnObvious%2FBees%2FHive3_Day12_060714_18Q.jpg&hash=07e95c24eaa1af098c44fc05ee5e8e62914509ed) (http://s1211.photobucket.com/user/CpnObvious/media/Bees/Hive3_Day12_060714_18Q.jpg.html)
(https://worldwidebeekeeping.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1211.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fcc424%2FCpnObvious%2FBees%2FHive3_Day12_060714_13.jpg&hash=c04bab925484fd597ff4929ab0fc34cd5b862021) (http://s1211.photobucket.com/user/CpnObvious/media/Bees/Hive3_Day12_060714_13.jpg.html)
(https://worldwidebeekeeping.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1211.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fcc424%2FCpnObvious%2FBees%2FHive3_Day12_060714_11.jpg&hash=9a7d9ebd7efb335231bf5087fdeab09c0a51ae92) (http://s1211.photobucket.com/user/CpnObvious/media/Bees/Hive3_Day12_060714_11.jpg.html)
(https://worldwidebeekeeping.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1211.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fcc424%2FCpnObvious%2FBees%2FHive3_Day12_060714_15.jpg&hash=118a629ab68a0abff14a48684a0de9f0850c051e) (http://s1211.photobucket.com/user/CpnObvious/media/Bees/Hive3_Day12_060714_15.jpg.html)
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Keep an eye on hive 1. It looks like she may be a drone layer. The other two look good, especially #3.
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On hive #2 when you feel it's the right time to cut off the wonky comb, do so. Then make sure all your frames are pushed tightly together. This was one of my big learning lessons this season as well ;) 8)
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I remove the wonky comb when it is found. as it will cause the bees to screw the next frame beside it when the start drawing on it. If you look at the cell size the bee drew out on the extra comb you will most likely see that it is drone size cells.
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I remove the wonky comb when it is found.
I thought about it, but I'll tell you why I didn't. Does my reasoning make sense?
These are package bees, not a nuc, installed for only two weeks. The comb had larva in it. They need to build up their workforce, not be beat down. It seemed removing it based on this would be backwards. That would be roughly, what, 150-200 bees? Sadly, now as I'm typing this, I think that is/was the piece of comb you see hanging from the queen cage in hive2-week1. I pinched it back in between the frames when I removed the queen cage because it had eggs in most of the cells. I had put it back into the hive for the same reason I left it this time...
Thoughts?
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They will keep messing up in a domino effect from that bad comb, getting it out sooner is usually better than trying to fix further problems later on. The queen will be putting down a lot of eggs, that piece of comb wont set them back noticeably if removed soon, but it could set you back noticeably later if you dont get it gone before it causes more issues in adjacent comb.. Just my thoughts.
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Thanks, Lazy.
I checked on the syrup status of the hives today, and found that in Hive 1 they were building a bunch of comb in the feeder. I decided to throw a deep together real quick (only had 9 foundations on hand) and went out to put it on. They were surprisingly friendly considering it was getting late and I completely disturbed them! But I put the deep on with 10 frames (9 foundations), replaced the feeder and filled it, covered it, walked away. My Mann Lake order should be arriving tomorrow or Thursday. then the other two hives will get a second deep.
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Cpn :) I have done the same indecisions, it doesn't seem right to 'take away' from the frames... buuut... if I leave it will it cause something worse.
When I got onto this forum in January my frames were a monumental MESS! I was asking the same questions as you. The wise members here would so kindly turn me around, go back into the hive and get rid of the wonky comb. I did, It Was Brood Armageddon! I would much rather gut a deer. So much destroyed brood.
The good news is, now my frames all fit right in their boxes, there is plenty of bee space between the frames, I don't worry that I will roll the queen on wonky comb when I pull up a frame.
And it only took a couple of weeks for the bees to straighten out my mess and there were new eggs. It's early in the season.
If it were me, I would listen to Scott and Apis on this one ;) 8)
(https://worldwidebeekeeping.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fs18.postimg.cc%2Ffo2os5b9x%2FDSCF8737.jpg&hash=d0ab4a9215e49ed75b36d487f1d2a474eff482ae) (http://postimg.cc/image/fo2os5b9x/)
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I will. I'll be back in the hives on Friday or Saturday. I'll become a killer then.
I don't worry that I will roll the queen on wonky comb when I pull up a frame.
(https://worldwidebeekeeping.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fs18.postimg.cc%2Ffo2os5b9x%2FDSCF8737.jpg&hash=d0ab4a9215e49ed75b36d487f1d2a474eff482ae) (http://postimg.cc/image/fo2os5b9x/)
Funny you should mention that. Hive2 is the only one I never saw the queen in... I imagine she was hiding on the other side of that comb. I've been concerned about just that!
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Cpn- I never new you COULD roll a queen until I got onto this forum. That right there is what sent me out to fix the comb. I really hope your queen was hiding, and probably is :)
When you shave off the wonky comb, relax, just take your time and know that you're doing the right thing ;) 8)
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If you take a close look at the comb size (cells per inch) I think you will find that the bees will have built larger size cells, that will get laid with unfertilized eggs and the wonky comb will be mainly drones. that will not help your worker bee population. As lazy said it could cause the bees to screw up the next frames of foundation and they could end up as drone size also.If it was me I would remove it. they are going to attach it to a couple of frames and back fill it with honey and when in the fall or next spring when the bees are not in the best mood, You are going to have a sticky mess on your hand. with bees that are not happy.
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Hive 1 Day 20 Week 3 inspection notes.
1) the frames aren't drawn any more than they were last week
2) based on last week's inspection I added a second deep on day 16 even though it seemed early. I removed it today.
3) they haven't touched the syrup since I added the second deep (had HoneyBee Healthy in it). I think I may put a jar feeder up top tomorrow or Monday.
4) seems to have a lot more drone cells than Id expect. There is worker brood, just more drone than I would expect.
5) found mold, I created a separate post for that.
6) found her Highness
7) appears to be the weakest of the 3 hives
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Hive 2 Day 20 Week3 notes:
1) more drone than I would have expected
2) they seem to use a lot of syrup. the top feeder needed cleaning so I took it, but added the jar feeder up top from Hive 3 as they barely touch it
3) found the queen
4) more drone brood than I'd expect.
5) removed the wonky comb I left in last time. it was mass hysteria! The carnage, oh, the carnage!
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Hive 3 Day 19 Week 3 inspection notes:
1) seems to be VERY strong
2) LOTS and LOTS and LOTS of worker brood
3) image 54 contains a queen cup at bottom of a frame, saw it in picture, not while in hive
4) the queen cup I did see in the hive was vacant
5) found the queen
6) they barely touch the feeder, I put it in hive 2
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I don't worry that I will roll the queen on wonky comb when I pull up a frame.
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Jen,
I removed that big ol chunk of comb today... Sure-enough, wasn't she on the other side of it, between it and the foundation? I laid the comb down on top of the other frames, took some pics, and watched her disappear down into the other frames. Checked on her on those frames before I was done.
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Hiya Cpn- Whew! That was close right?
And even tho I'm still learning to study the frame, Your hive #3 looks pretty good to me, nice layed out brood ;) 8)
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Yeah, Jen, hive 3 seems to be doing exceptionally well compared to the other two. Wish I knew why. The laying pattern, the quantity of capped brood, everything. I'm anxious to see what will be said about hives 1&2.
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Reply #25 "removed the wonky comb I left in last time. it was mass hysteria! The carnage, oh, the carnage!"
I know right? It's sickening when we have to clean up all that brood, it's sticky and wet, and drippy, and I will never forget the odor involved with removing the destroyed brood. I'm so glad mine is straightened out and I'm glad that yours is getting straightened out as well.
Keep those frames pushed together! ;) 8)
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looks great! so glad at least one of the freshman class is excelling!
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Apis and iddee,
What are you thoughts on the drone brood in hives 1 & 2? Reply #14 eluded to drone laying after week 1 inspection. Hive 2 has more drone brood than hive 1, but I don't think they're all that different. If I didn't have hive 3 looking the way it does I may not even be asking! Hive 3 only has a few drone brood, if any.
(I'm open to anyone else's responses, but this topic isn't the only place I've seen Apis and/or iddee comment about drone brood)
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I would notify the supplier and tell him if it looks that way in another week, I want replacement queens.
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Yep... they will either straighten out or get worse. Clumps of drone brood dont bother me, but when there is a random drone here and there it does bother me. The packages I started that had random drone brood scattered about all superseded, I let them, and they once again have a well mated queen. If the random drone brood persists and they do not supersede, and or you want to speed up the process.. as Iddee said, replace the queens either through getting replacements from your supplier, or raising them yourself.
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I contacted my supplier as a heads-up earlier today. He has already responded:
ME:
> Subject: Package requeening?
>
> Tom,
>
> Now that the brood are capped and should be emerging this
> week/weekend, I'm finding much more drone brood than expected in 2 of
> my 3 new packages. I've had a couple more experienced beeks look and
> they suggested I see if things are straightened out by next week, and
> if drone cells continue to show up I should requeen. They recommend I
> first speak to my supplier. If it comes down to requeening, do you
> have any? I know you were "just" the delivery guy, is your supplier
> someone that could be contacted if the need arises?
>
> Please let me know,
>
> Jeff
His Response:
On 2014-06-17 21:49, beardedbee wrote:
> I have 2 other problem queens I sent for replacements yesterday
> ...still waiting to see if they are covering those ....really 2 out of
> 3 ? How bad are they ?
> Any pics ?
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must be nice to have a supplier who will work with you! ;D
I am sure things will work out. with any luck they will straighten up and fly right on their own...
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His response.:
Jeff
There are some drone but lots of good brood too ...I would see how she does ...there is some nice full brood in some of those. ..
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capn, my personal opinion, a fair reply, and i would do as he suggests, to see how she does. seems they are willing to work with you.
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Yes, River, I agree, and that was my plan. My initial email to him did say: " they suggested I see if things are straightened out by next week". I may not have been as clear as I should/could have been. My intent was more-so to give him a heads-up just in case. Thank you for your continued help!
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i think you were clear capn, you notified him and sent pix, so the head's up is out there. just be patient and see how she does.
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okay capn, you are really MIA and slackin'......... :D
we have rules here ya know.........(https://worldwidebeekeeping.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1056.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Ft373%2Friverbee1%2FEmoticons%2FSisterFingerwagger_zps6590960d.gif&hash=d5bd1fd26595501f530920edbd1cfdb5a7dd1cec)
............ :D
missed your presence on the forum as of lately, and wondering how you and your bees are doing?!
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Love That Nun! Cracks me up!
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okay capn, you are really MIA and slackin'......... :D
we have rules here ya know.........(https://worldwidebeekeeping.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1056.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Ft373%2Friverbee1%2FEmoticons%2FSisterFingerwagger_zps6590960d.gif&hash=d5bd1fd26595501f530920edbd1cfdb5a7dd1cec)
............ :D
missed your presence on the forum as of lately, and wondering how you and your bees are doing?!
WOW! My absence was noticed! Yeah, Between vacations and life I've been off for a bit, or is it that I'm a bit off?... Well, after about 5 weeks...
www.youtube.com/embed/wQKKj_qeOBQ
So anyway... I'll try to do a write-up tonight of how things have been . VERY nervous about Hive 1 still :(
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LOL
Welcome Back! Looking forward to updates!!
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I haven't had time to go through or post pictures of my last inspection... But I will. Reading this:
keep in mind there are different levels of inspections. there are lifting covers to inspect feed consumed, to lifting the inner cover to see the area the bees are working in the top super and whether nectar is being brought in and stored and wax is being pulled. To breaking down the hive and looking at each side of every frame. The evasiveness of the different types of inspection will have more effect on the colony than the actual number of times you open the colony. I find that the full inspection only happens about 4 times in the year. The inspections that you go in and remove a few frames and if things look good after a few frames in (you see brood Larva or eggs the hive has pollen and nectar) you put them back together and leave them to carry on, will happen every 3 or 4 weeks even longer in July and first 1/2 of August. The pop the top and look for signs that the bees are working the top supers and if more room is needed can be done any time you think it is necessary. Once a week or even more frequently if you are not sure or familiar with the rate thing can happen in the hive.
To me it is not how often you do an inspection, it is more how invasive you are when you do the inspection.
makes me have a lot of thoughts/questions/etc...
With the exception that this past week's inspection was 2 weeks after the previous, I've been doing weekly, frame-by-frame inspections. I'm new to this and trying to see what goes on where, how long things take, population, etc. I'm sure this disturbs them more than I really should, but I can't make much sense of what I see. I clearly need to go through my pics and post my regularly scheduled novel in here, but in short I'm baffled by so much...
Hive #1, which doesn't get nearly as much sun as the others (I need to cut down a few more trees that I should have already taken out), is moving along VERY slowly compared to the others. They don't have the stores or the numbers, though there is plenty of capped brood and larva. This is the hive I've had concerns with since the beginning. VERY slow to draw comb.
Hive #2 seems to be right in the middle. The numbers are high, stores are coming along, Things look good, I think.
Hive #3 - the numbers are insane! Brood, stores, bees, bees, bees.... Though, not quite as much honey as I'd expect for such high numbers. What I found exceptionally weird... Although there were lots of bees in the upper deep, when I removed it to check the bottom deep they were pouring out like a tub overflowing... why were they all huddled so much in the bottom? This is also the hive I now have to treat for mites. We only found a few... but that's a few too many for me.
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Howdy Captn! Enjoyed reading your Journey!
You think hive 3 is your best and I'm thinking Hive 2 you'll end up liking most...
The best looking hive might be a Swarmie...meaning they swarm a lot...
Just my 4 year experience so far!
Good Job though! 8)
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Great thread. I'm embarassed to say I'm finally catching up on it.
Hives 1 and 2, I would seriously think about requeening if there is no improvement at this point. I think Iddee was bang on in the beginning.
One thing I noticed at the very beginning as well was how the queen cages were installed. A bit of a puzzle to me in that the metal strap would seem to be on the wrong end. Whenever I place a queen cage in, I always install them so the candy side is up. Nothing worse than having an attendant die and fall to the bottom of the cage thereby blocking the entrance/ exit.
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One thing I noticed at the very beginning as well was how the queen cages were installed. A bit of a puzzle to me in that the metal strap would seem to be on the wrong end. Whenever I place a queen cage in, I always install them so the candy side is up. Nothing worse than having an attendant die and fall to the bottom of the cage thereby blocking the entrance/ exit.
Perry - I hadn't thought of that! I'll keep that in mind next time around. I will also not place the queen between the top bars of the frames ever again. I be sure to place here against the foundation. I'm still dealing with the aftermath I caused my placing her between the top frames!
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I'll have to calculate the week #'s and day count later... but here's a little bit of an update on where things stand... I'll try to get pictures up within the next day or so. I will correct any inadequacies in this post when I look at the pics.
Hive #1) still only about 9 drawn frames, maybe about 1 frame-worth of syrup/nectar (MAYBE), no capped honey, some pollen stores, drones are not an issue (acceptable amount), plenty of brood in all stages, but there's really only 4-ish (maybe 5) frames of bees. They are taking syrup fairly quickly now, I just don't know what they're doing with it. I'm sure it's too late to get a new queen from my original supplier, and is it too late in the year for a re-queening to be beneficial in New England?
Hive #2) plenty of bees, maybe about 14-ish drawn frames, some capped honey, plenty of brood in all stages, pollen stores, syrup/nectar stored, they seem to be moving along. I moved some of the lower full frames into the upper deep in hopes of getting the bees to better disperse themselves in the hive. the entrance is always chock-full of bees. This hive is sucking down syrup like it's going out of style. I placed a MAQS (formic acid) pad in this hive because last week I saw some mites in Hive #3 next to it. This was recommended by the manufacturer.
Hive #3) very strong! TONS of bees! honey stores, pollen stores, tons of brood in all stages, 16-ish frames drawn. This hive is also sucking down syrup like it's going out of style. I moved a few full frames to the upper deep because the bottom of the lower deep, as well as the entrance, is even more packed with bees than that of Hive #2. I placed a single MAQS pad in this hive as well. This is the hive I saw a 5 or so mites in last week. I only used 1 pad per my call with the manufacturer. I spoke to this in another thread I started in the "Pests & Disease" category. I recommend reading that thread if you're seeing mites. I included some great advice I received from the MAQS manufacturer.
I'll try to get some pics posted soon. Life has been N-U-T-S lately!
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Does anyone have any thoughts as to how I might save Hive #1? Maybe plan on a constant feed through the winter? I'd really like to help it survive.
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Find the queen in hive # 2 & 3 before moving bees or brood. once queens are found give hive 1 a frame of capped from each hive with no bees on the frame and find a frame of open young brood from hive 2 and 3 and shake the bees off of this frame into hive 1 also. this will expand the bee population to 10 frames in a weeks time. these bees will support the queen in raising a few full rounds of winter bees. this will only work if the queen is a good one and has be limited by the lack of brood. It she is a poor layer and not replaces the brood and bees added to hive one will be wasted because she will not produce well in the spring to build up the colony. A crappy queen in the summer and fall will still be a crappy queen in the next spring.
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I agree with Apis.. You could try putting them in a two story nuc and hope the queen can build up that nuc enough to overwinter. In the nuc it will take less supplies and bees. At least have something in the spring to re queen and expand back into a hive.
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Thanks for the advice. Is one option better than the other: keeping a single-deep 10-frame, or a 2-deep 5-frame? Is the second story beneficial for heating abilities in the winter? I'll have to pick up some material to make some 5-frame nucs.
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I'm in a climate that singles over winter fine and the weather breaks often enough and the early warm springs allows the bees to move and keep in contact with the honey. In colder longer winter regions it helps the bees to be 5 above 5 in that the bees only need to move up to stay in contact with there stores.
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I have not had enough experience with nucs to say 100% At this time I would prefer to overwinter a well situated hive rather than a nuc. However, I have two colonies that are just not building up, and will likely get moved into nucs this coming Friday if they have not started to expand dramatically on the next inspection.. At this point it will take some heavy feeding and care to get them into wintering size and shape if I want them in full size hives.. the easier option will be to put them in nucs.. which is about the size the queens seem to be maintaining anyhow.. Getting them ready to winter in the nuc will take little to no effort on my part... two years ago.. LAST year.. I would have been in panic mode and looking for queens to replace them.. this year I am going to see if I can pull them through with less effort and heartburn. If they make it, I will make new queens in the spring. If they dont? I have some drawn comb to start a split with!!
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Lazy,
That's the positive attitude I've been having... I'd really like them to make the winter. but if they don't, I will have some. Drawn frames to start a new colony off with!
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I will give them the best chance my knowledge will allow, because my wallet apparently has some sort of tracking device on it.. I take it out my wife either shows up or calls... :o
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Great advice. Sometimes a frame or two of brood is all the spark a struggling hive needs to get rolling. You need that "critical mass" for it to take off.
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OK. So I finally went through my pictures of Week 10 (last weekend) and took a few notes. The downside is that I was waaaay over tired last night and the notes aren't great, but here you go...
Hive 1 - 8 empty frames (just foundation); 4 frames partially drawn out; 1 frame with syrup/nectar (not capped honey) and pollen; 4 or 5 frames brood. Not sure why I don't have them all accounted for
Hive 2 - 8 empty frames; 9 frames syrup, some capped honey, a bunch of syrup/nectar; 4 frames in the process of being drawn out.
Hive 3 - 3 empty frames; 3 1/2 frames syrup/nectar, including a bunch of capped honey; 9 1/2 frames brood; 3 i didn't look at because the bees were telling me it was time to close up their house.
WOW! My notes are even worse than I though! :(
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Week 11 - Quasi update...
Hive 1 - the population has suddenly exploded! I did not take any brood frames from my other hives as this explosion made one heck of a difference. In the past week they've drawn out about 2 1/2 frames that were completely untouched before! Nectar/syrup storage seems to have climbed a bit. They seem to suddenly be doing a bit better.
Hive 2 - I assume (and hope) it's just because it was starting to get late in the day (about 5:15/5:30) and the hive was already in the shade for the night, that the bees made it clear they were done with me sticking my nose where they felt it didn't belong. I only managed to get through frames 11-18 before I had to close them up. A couple more frames appeared to have been drawn, though. This is also the hive that prompted me to start the thread: gah! a queen cell - peanut exists! what should I do??? (http://www.worldwidebeekeeping.com/forum/index.php/topic,2365.0.html). I have decided to follow your suggestions and leave this (hopefully) malformed drone cell alone. I was unable to remove the MAQS pad. It is between the supers and I wasn't able to get that far down. The instructions say that it can be left in, so I'm not worried about it.
Hive 3 - Hives #2&3 have crazy-high populations. This one also appears to be progressing quite well. Drawing foundation out fairly fast, lots of syrup, etc... I'll try to get some pics posted later tonight. I was only able to look at grams 11-18 & then #10 before they kicked me out. As with Hive #2, I'm hoping this is just because of the time of day.