Worldwide Beekeeping
Beekeeping => General Beekeeping => Topic started by: LindsayBrower1 on June 05, 2014, 05:00:37 pm
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I got stung 4 times yesterday around 4pm and the areas seems to becoming worse slowly. They are very large and hard to the touch :-X From my understanding the only time you should worry is when your airway becomes restricted. Is this reaction Im having a normal one? My Jaw and arm are so blown up its terrible... and unsightly :sad:
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(https://worldwidebeekeeping.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fs18.postimg.cc%2Frra6018n9%2FSting.jpg&hash=ecedca52f213f2ab3216b2b57b65b3b71eb98913) (http://postimg.cc/image/rra6018n9/)
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I read the first part, and was going to say some swelling and hardness are normal with my first stings of the year, but then I saw the picture of your arm... thats quite a reaction.. I will have to let Mrs. River address this one...
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I read the first part, and was going to say some swelling and hardness are normal with my first stings of the year, but then I saw the picture of your arm... thats quite a reaction.. I will have to let Mrs. River address this one...
I ice it like Rob said and no change. It hurts and I don't typically complain about pain. I swear I get a stiff neck every time I get stung too
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If it heats up I would make an appointment with your primary care physician. Stings can cause cellulitis, which is very treatable. I would expect that IF that is what's happening, your joint will become rather stiff and hard to move. It isn't worth the cost of an E.R. visit, as it really isn't an emergency, but I would definitely see your doctor if it persists.
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If it heats up I would make an appointment with your primary care physician. Stings can cause cellulitis, which is very treatable. I would expect that IF that is what's happening, your joint will become rather stiff and hard to move. It isn't worth the cost of an E.R. visit, as it really isn't an emergency, but I would definitely see your doctor if it persists.
Its very hot. And I hope I can make it another day without an ER visit... Thats only a $1500 deductible :sad: I've been hospitalized for cellulitis before... Spent a few days there for it, not fun
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Hi Lindsay, did all four stings land on that arm?
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When was the last time you were stung before yesterday? and did you have the same reaction?
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Hi Lindsay, did all four stings land on that arm?
No Jen I got stung in the elbow, jaw, and 2 on the butt
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When was the last time you were stung before yesterday? and did you have the same reaction?
And have you tried taking Benedryl to see if it lessens the swelling?
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Lindsay, I did find this, read the second to the last paragraph. It states that if the injection site is red more than 3-4 inches, you may want to see a doc. But read all of it as well ~ :)
http://www.ask.com/wiki/Bee_sting
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Yes Jen I took Benedryl about 40 mins ago and the heat went away but the swelling hasn't improved. I haven't had a reaction to a sting like this prior to yesterday. Ill have to read your article in a little bit after I get these wild babies to bed! Thanks for all of your help
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Okay :) Mommies are soo busy in the evenings ~ keep us posted
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I think Ill be fine... Hopefully the swelling goes away soon!
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Usually it takes around 3 days, for some a little longer, some a little shorter. Keep up with the benedril, and keep that arm out of the sun, warm sun causes more itching.
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If I get a sting on a major body part, I get a quarter sized red spot the first hour or so. Next, it can reach 3-4 inches. It is always warm to the touch and swells, but not too much. It peaks at 24 hours and then starts to itch and resume to normal after 48 hours. That is what I understand as being a normal site reaction. If I get stung on a joint like the wrist for example, my fist will swell so much I can't see my knuckles. Pretty much everybody I have seen that gets a sting on the or around the eyes have a pretty large reaction. I really thinks "the where" you get stung makes a bid difference. The venom, which is a peptide along with enzymes act to destroy tissues. Your body is trying to fight it off just like it does a splinter or cut. It's the less than 1% of the world that are hypertensive to the allergens that need to worry. My first stings of the year are always a little more pronounced. My sting two days ago on the finger hurt for a half hour but never turned more red than the size of a dime and no swelling. All I could see the next day was a tiny hole. I know how ya feel though. I was a little scared the first time I saw the site reaction.
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LindsayBrower1,
Hey, that looks just like me when I get stung. That could be a picture of my arm. Like blueblood said, the sting will be warm to the touch. It's feverish. Blueblood is right about the location having a big impact. Ice gives temporary relief. Elevation helps some, but I think the poisons just drain to lower parts of the body. If I get stung on the ear or jaw the poisons just drain down my neck and it is all swollen. Within 24 hours it starts itching. The swelling starts to go down about 48 hours. In 3 days I am pretty much back to normal. I can't take Benedryl, so I just ride out the discomfort. I try to put a poultice on asap to help draw some of the poisons out. I have used turmeric and meat tenderizer with some success.
This is why I always suit up, even for the smallest of tasks in the hive.
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Bakers, I was nodding my head yes when I read your last sentence. ;) I tried the no suit thing but I realized didn't care much for even normal site reactions. I had to be honest with myself and explore my motivations for not wearing protection. It came down this, I was not wearing it to be mancho and draw positive praise from other keepers who seemingly brag (maybe just my take ???) about not wearing protection. It was all put to rest by several of the folks here who offered the following advice: You must wear whatever you need to be relaxed and comfortable working the hives. And in doing so, you provide a better environment for both you and the bees. So, if you are comfortable in your birthday suit or in full NASA gear like me, do whichever is best for you, and only you. :)
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Plus it might impair your duty performance if you have a swollen hand....I "normally" wear a bee suit and gloves. Tom
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Plus it might impair your duty performance if you have a swollen hand....I "normally" wear a bee suit and gloves. Tom
:D exxxxxactlyyyyyyy....ha!
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Today the swelling is going down but the itching can be so intense at times. The Benadryl seemed to give me some relief and I got such a good night of sleep! ;D Im not a fan of wearing a bunch of protective gear, I get so hot and uncomfortable. If the bees didn't love going after my face and neck Id skip the veil too... Im still getting use to seeing through it. Im going to give my body one more chance to see what kind of reaction it gives me the next time I get stung. If I blow up again like this ill have to consider covering up :sad:
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lindsay,
it would seem to me that you suffered a large local reaction?
go here for info and description of the various reactions to stings, and the post has a pdf file that you can download:
Riverbee's Journey; Allergy to Insect Stings-Reactions (http://www.worldwidebeekeeping.com/forum/index.php/topic,572.msg8465.html#msg8465)
the sooner one takes benadryl, the better, immediately upon being stung. some beeks take it before they work bees.
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riverbee summed it up nicely. Benadryl needs to get in your system as quickly as possible, as time goes by it has a larger reaction to deal with..."nip it in the bud".
I've found that my reactions vary from sting to sting. ???
The itching.... Interestingly, the first year I kept bees the itching was the worst part for me. Since then (and many stings later) I seldom have an issue with the "itch". The bad thing about the itch is that it really isn't "scratchable". :-\
The constricting air passage is a sure sign of an allergic reaction but also be aware of a rash developing elsewhere on your body that isn't close to the sting site...this can be a tell-tale sign, also, of an allergy.
Best wishes, it sounds like you're on the mend, but pay attention to your future reactions!
Ed
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Thank you riverbee and intheswamp! It sounds like my reaction was nothing to be too concerned about. My breathing was fine and my rash was only in the areas where I was stung. Im not a huge fan of medication and I was told to try taking Vitamin C. Im going to give that a try and if it doesn't help, Benadryl it is.
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There is life beyond Benadryl (diphenhydramine). Other anti-histamines are available ..... loratidine, cetirizine, chlorpheniramine et et et.
Benadryl was withdrawn from the UK market many years ago. The active ingredient (diphenhydramine) is still available to buy but the drowsiness side effect is exploited since the products are sleep aids.
One technique suitable for the swollen elbow is to apply cold. A cold compress constricts the blood vessels and reduces the spread of toxins into the surrounding tissues. Rubbing or scratching will have the opposite effect. It may be worthwhile to take an anti-histamine before working the bees. In that way the medicine is in the body before you are stung.
I am fortunate to have reached the stage were when I'm stung it's "Ouch... You b*****.." and carry on. I no longer have the itching and swelling. I have noticed that at certain times the sting seems to have extra wallup.
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Barbarian- Using daytime benedril will not cause drowsiness.
Am I correct in assuming that 'You b****' is the word 'bit**' ?
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LOL what we call our female coonhounds....
I got popped twice today.. One of the packages I installed apparently lost a queen somewhere along the line.. I found seven queen cells, so took the opportunity to make up a few nuc's.. I love being able to cut queen cells out of my natural comb...
Anyhow.. Two stings, no issues, but got both stingers out the moment I got stung, which usually means I have little if any reaction at all..
I feel your pain.. I really dont like wearing my protective gear.. My Ultra Breeze allows ventilation even when its hot, but its STILL hotter wearing it. The advantage of the Ultra Breeze is that I put the jacket on, and leave the hood off hanging behind my head, and go work the bees.. If I hit a hive that starting to get a little testy I just flip the hood up and zip.. The other advantage is the long sleeves it has.. I cut the sleeves off my gloves.. If I am FORCED to put the gloves on the normal length gloves fit under the velcro fasteners ont he ultra breeze sleeves.. I pull the velcro tight, and no long sleeves to worry about.. So basically.. I work the bees with the jacket until I start getting buzzed, then pop the hood up and zip it.. Thats what I did today, but I am rather stubbern about the gloves.. Both stings on the hands because I just HATE wearing gloves.. I prefer the stings over the gloves... but I dont have ugly reactions... a moment of pain, a little burn, and then its all over with.. I usually forget about getting stung within a few moments..
I am NOT going to say this is what you should do.. I am not you... BUT.... If I had your reaction.. I might just give myself a sting, or make sure I got a sting once a week in hopes that my immune system would start to overcome and conquer.. I do not even know if thats possible... Maybe Mrs. River (OR JEN!) can give better advice there...
I do know, that the first sting of the year usually swells a bit and is itchy.. after three or four over the course of as many weeks I notice a dramatic improvement in my reactions to them.. Your reaction is no joke. Use care and caution. Be safe. I am no doctor, but from your statement you sound about as stubborn as I am..
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FWIW, I have wrapped my hand to reduce the swelling and it helped a lot. Not too tight, not too loose. I had elbows that looked like that 40 years ago, but not any more. Hang in there. :)
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Hi Lindsay, Let me introduce myself, my name is Jennifer and I am a Bee Venom Therapist. I coach people how and where to sting for all kinds of physical and psychological conditions. I've been teaching BVT now for about 3 years. I have treated ailments from Rheumatoid Arthritis, Arthritis, Depression/Anxiety, to suspicious cancers on the skin. Personally I sting myself once a week on my knees, hips, for arthritis. I get my schooling thru American Apitherapy Society and I have a mentor in the next town who is an acupuncturist and a bee venom therapist, she is also a third generation beekeeper.
Scott gave some good advice about a sting a week to build your immunities to honey bee venom, you can actually sting twice a week with a couple of stings as well. It can take from 15-20 stings to stop swelling and itching, as you get closer to 15-20 stings the symptoms become much easier to cope with.
The prefered places to sting would be your middle back, or upper thigh (the stings you got in your butt are perfect). The reason for this is because those sting places will not interfere with your daily life, such as stinging your arm will swell up your hands, and stinging your calves will swell up your feet.
If you want to learn more about this, pm me, we should talk epipen :) I know that you don't want to work in a bee suit or shirt, so this is a good idea to consider just for your comfort ~ ;) 8)
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Scott I like the explanation on wearing protective gear.. seems like we are in the same boat! Ill have to consider it... But yes, I am very stubborn so Im sure it will take a few more of these situations to motivate me to go out to the bee supply store. I was out the other day and just a regular long sleeve was too much to bare the sun beating down on me. I can't say I would ever wear gloves though I also HATE gloves... Thanks for the advice and I hope you aren't itching like I am :laugh:
Jen Oh my goodness I will private message you I have some questions :) Thank you for introducing yourself ;D
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"Thank you riverbee and intheswamp! It sounds like my reaction was nothing to be too concerned about. My breathing was fine and my rash was only in the areas where I was stung. Im not a huge fan of medication and I was told to try taking Vitamin C. Im going to give that a try and if it doesn't help, Benadryl it is."
lindsay, first, none of us are medical doctors, (jen a bee venom therapist) and can't give medical advice to you specific to your reaction. if you are concerned by all means seek advice from your physician to ease any concern or venom allergy testing. we all suffer from different reactions to honey bee stings, some worse than others. as scott and jen have mentioned stings in the beginning of the season can bring larger reactions, and until our immune system has become accustomed. even then, sometimes this changes. it would be very wise to carry an epi pen as jen mentioned, but i am one to advocate that we all carry one. they are free for 2014; see this post:
Epi Pen Zero Dollar Co-Pay Offer 2014 (http://www.worldwidebeekeeping.com/forum/index.php/topic,1043.msg13907.html#msg13907)
i can say this, if your breathing were to be affected, you would suffer this within minutes of being stung, not later in the day or the next day, or following days. vitamin c? not sure that that would or will help you.
i am not a fan of medication, and i am not a fan of benadryl. if you ask any physician, allergist or pharmacist as to what is the best recommendation for stings, they will tell you benadryl. there is nothing better although there are alternatives, but do not work as well as benadryl. the sooner you take it after being stung, the better, and continue to take it the first few days. i like and prefer the liquid initially. next to that, ice pack.
hang in there lindsay!
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River- "lindsay, first, none of us are medical doctors, (jen a bee venom therapist) and can't give medical advice to you specific to your reaction. if you are concerned by all means seek advice from your physician to ease any concern or venom allergy testing. we all suffer from different reactions to honey bee stings, some worse than others. as scott and jen have mentioned stings in the beginning of the season can bring larger reactions, and until our immune system has become accustomed. even then, sometimes this changes. it would be very wise to carry an epi pen as jen mentioned, but i am one to advocate that we all carry one. they are free for 2014; see this post:"
Thank You River, Good Advice! Lindsay, I had some large reactions like that on my arms as well, tight, hard, red skin. But I toughed it out cause I wanted to continue stinging to build my immunity so I wouldn't swell or itch anymore.
River is right in that I cannot give medical advice, however I can give how to's, and what to expect. And I can say this: If you are going to continue tending to your hives without a bee shirt or bee suit, I highly advise you to have liquid benedril, placed where you can find it, and an epipen placed where you can find it, say, in a small box of tools that you have near you when you are working with your bees.
There is plenty of documentation of people who were stung by honeybees and died from anaphylactic shock. Riverbee was almost one of those people. In my training, we were taught to teach the downside of bee venom therapy as well. I wouldn't be doing my best as a bvt if I didn't give you all sides. Also, there are other readers who need to know this as well.
I'll chat with you more on pm ;) 8)
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We had an Doctor that was an allergist speak at a bee meeting a long while back and he stated that for beekeepers that had mild to severe local reactions to bee stings, that they should take an anti-histamines 20 minutes before going to work the bees so if you did get stung the anti-histamines was already in your system. He stated that it takes
20 minutes for the anti-histamines to enter your system and to be ready to work.
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Lindsey, last Saturday evening I took 40 some odd stings moving 2 hives of bees 60 some miles, one was REALLY upset and responsible for the stinging. Thats wearing full bee suit. Veil, leather gloves, and boots. I shudder to think what it could have happened were I less protected. Was I hot and sweaty of course. Was I glad to have it on......yep....was I stung through the suit in places where suit pulled tight against my skin or top of boots....absolutely without the gear...don't want to think what that could have been like.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using Tapatalk
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i perhaps didn't word what i said about none of us being medical doctors and didn't mean to take anything away from jen as a BVT and her knowledge, my apologies to jen, it was not my intent. my intent was only to say, that if we have a concern about a sting or stings we have taken that produce large reactions or systemic reactions (rashes or hives), it is always wise to seek medical advice. many who are new to keeping bees can become quite alarmed at larger reactions, having not experienced them.
what jen said:
"If you are going to continue tending to your hives without a bee shirt or bee suit, I highly advise you to have liquid benedril, placed where you can find it, and an epipen placed where you can find it, say, in a small box of tools that you have near you when you are working with your bees. "
:yes:
what apis said and what i said earlier about taking benadryl prior to working bees, this does help. i have never done this but learned how valuable or how well the benadryl worked during my venom immunotherapy injections. i was required to take the benadryl 1 hr prior to the 3 injections to help ease the reactions, and then to take it for a day or two after depending on the severity of the reaction. i didn't like it but i didn't like the reactions without it. ;)
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I am confused. Please could someone list the active ingredients in the "Benadryl" products available in North America ?
The drug makers use the same brand name with different ingredients in different countries. They also market the same drug under different brand names in different countries.
The agro manufacturers also market the same chemical under a host of brands in different countries.
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... I've been hospitalized for cellulitis before... Spent a few days there for it, not fun
If you have had cellulitis before, you may be predisposed to recurrences. Don't take chances, make an appointment to see your doctor and in the mean time, use your bee suit and keep your epi pen and benadryl handy. An abundance of caution would be good until you know exactly what is going on with these reactions.
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Barbarian- "Please could someone list the active ingredients in the "Benadryl" products available in North America ?
I live in California. This is what is on the label of my epipen:
Epinephrine, 1.8 mg sodium chloride and0.5 mg sodium metabisulfite
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We had an Doctor that was an allergist speak at a bee meeting a long while back and he stated that for beekeepers that had mild to severe local reactions to bee stings, that they should take an anti-histamines 20 minutes before going to work the bees so if you did get stung the anti-histamines was already in your system. He stated that it takes
20 minutes for the anti-histamines to enter your system and to be ready to work.
Thanks Apis, I usually take a benedryl 20 minutes before diving into the bees. I have mild to medium site reactions. Sometimes I take another benedryl and a Zantac or other antacid. The first post on this Medhelp page explains the dirt on H1 and H2 antihistamines. http://healthquestions.medhelp.org/zantac-for-bee-stings
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I am confused. Please could someone list the active ingredients in the "Benadryl" products available in North America ?
The drug makers use the same brand name with different ingredients in different countries. They also market the same drug under different brand names in different countries.
The agro manufacturers also market the same chemical under a host of brands in different countries.
Benadryl® Allergy contains the histamine-blocker diphenhydramine. This product relieves: runny nose; sneezing; itchy, watery eyes; itchy throat.
Ingredients:
Active ingredient (in each capsule) Purpose
Diphenhydramine HCl 25 mg Antihistamine
Inactive ingredients
candelilla wax, colloidal silicone dioxide, crospovidone, hypromellose, microcrystalline cellulose, polyethylene glycol, providone, pregelatinized starch, starch, stearic acid, titanium dioxide, and talc
http://www.rxlist.com/benadryl-drug.htm
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Thanks ...... Slow.