Worldwide Beekeeping
Beekeeping => General Beekeeping => Topic started by: Jen on July 01, 2014, 04:42:25 pm
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My friend Phill has been doing bvt for hip pain and depression. He's feeling better and wants his own hive. He trims the hooves of horses for a living, loves his horses, and has become enamored with bees, funny how that happens :). He's a character.
These bees are entering this garage from the outside wall. The owners says it's been just this year, a couple months or so.
You can see on the side of the garage where the bees are going in, it's the darkest hole in the siding. The bees are going in and turning left.
Any advice is welcome ;D I'm thinking that going in from the outside would be easier? I don't believe there is insulation between the outside wall and the wall on the inside holding the bench. The siding is nailed and screwed.
(https://worldwidebeekeeping.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fs7.postimg.cc%2Fuw6qy3xt3%2FDSCF9861.jpg&hash=6f04e3c868c0e69d10d74f8ecae664de0ea0e6b9) (http://postimg.cc/image/uw6qy3xt3/)
(https://worldwidebeekeeping.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fs28.postimg.cc%2F40mtsrvmx%2FDSCF9862.jpg&hash=55258ea803fd106ed446bd62b34d6262d5cf0906) (http://postimg.cc/image/40mtsrvmx/)
(https://worldwidebeekeeping.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fs22.postimg.cc%2F7hcmaum3x%2FDSCF9863.jpg&hash=97fc5b9b92251871afe35a51bd11805d89da0776) (http://postimg.cc/image/7hcmaum3x/)
This is the inside of the garage where the bees are building, they are behind the plastic drawers.
(https://worldwidebeekeeping.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fs11.postimg.cc%2Fygo5un9ov%2FDSCF9868.jpg&hash=7aadddd30513ef8dcafacc6c9f348852f85736e8) (http://postimg.cc/image/ygo5un9ov/)
The half wall that holds the owners bench, tools, and goods is capped off at the top.
(https://worldwidebeekeeping.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fs11.postimg.cc%2Fg3nkk2z7z%2FDSCF9869.jpg&hash=06b75a439a3241551845c3870d09ccb5fa3a43d1) (http://postimg.cc/image/g3nkk2z7z/)
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okay jen, can't help it, love the sign in the last pic.......too funny!!!
now back to giving jen some advice on this to all you cutout gurus!
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OH! Riv! When I went into the garage to inspect the wall, held the camera up and saw the sign in the lens... Click! Had too! :laugh:
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Coming in from outside would probably work fine, but I like cutting less, so you might be removing quite a bit of wood. I say the less cutting the better. Looking at the inside, though, it looks like it might work better maybe? If the bees are behind the plastic tool box, there is a seam on the plywood that looks like it is screwed into the studs. If you could get to that plywood, you could just remove it, and bingo. The only hard part would be the work bench.
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Never mind Jen. After looking at your pictures again, I think you may be right. It shouldn't be too much of a problem removing the furring strips.
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Thanks tbone :)
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How did they put the plywood on from the inside? If its screwed, go that way, if they nailed it, outside may be as easy, less stuff to move out of the way.
Something about bees being inside.. rather than go after you they "GO TO THE LIGHT", be it a bulb or a window where they are easily collected..
In either case, it shouldnt be too bad of a job.
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Looks pretty straight forward to me. The siding will come off in about 10 minutes. The right tool for the job is a cat's paw. That's pretty much like a hive tool, but bigger. Your main challenge will be pulling the siding off without breaking it, because it's already split where the screws went in. Otherwise super easy access.
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When possible I always try to do the cutouts from the inside. This keeps the structure weather tight and when finished its not has hard to fix and usually cheaper for the owner.
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Go in from the out side Remove the battens in full strips the nails used are finish nails with a fine head so most will likely pull thru the ceder siding. the screws were used as an after fix to close gaps because of board warping. There is a cross blocking at about 5 feet from the floor so the siding will be nailed along the bottom, top and in the middle. It looks like the stud spacing is 24" apart so you will need to remove 4 or 5 boards. I don't think there will be any insulation as the top part of the wall is not insulated. 2 pry bars and gently work it under at the bottom or top and slowly pull the boards off one at a time until the space it is open. start by smoking the entrance a little, remove battens and smoke along board seams as each batten is removed. them pry siding boards off one at a time smoking a little as you go.
I would hang black plastic or screw a piece of plywood on the inside across the stud space above where the bees are to keep them from going inside the shop.
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Scott- "How did they put the plywood on from the inside? If its screwed, go that way, if they nailed it, outside may be as easy, less stuff to move out of the way.
Would it be okay to ask the owners to move their stuff to clear a path for us?
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Pete and Riverrat both posted while I was posting each saying the opposite of each other. As you can read above I side with Pete. their is no tar paper or plywood sheeting under the siding so once the siding is removed you will have access to the bees. the siding isn't tucked up under any soffit so the boards are free to come off from top to bottom. the only thing in the way is the light but it is on a seam so loosen the fixture and the board will come off easy. once you get the first board off if the bees have the comb stuck to the siding you might have to cur the comb loos from the siding to ease the removal of the boards and minimize damage to the comb.
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Thanks Apis, I was wondering of comb would come loose upon removing the boards either inside or outside. So I would use a knife and slice the comb off of the board then bring the board out?
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It is not a free standing bench but is built on the wall so it would need to be dismantled and removed, the shelving would need removing, and to me it looks like the plywood is nailed on.
For me Hive tool, pry bars, claw hammers, piece of 2x4, even a pointy end of a spade will work and aide in the siding removal.
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Yes if it tares. The barn floor removal Scott posted you could see some of the combs torn. It can also stretch the comb cells and the bees will at times convert them for use as drone comb
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What apis said Mrs. Jen. Zooming in on the picture I can see nails in the plywood..
If everything was screwed together, my 18 volt B&D drill would have that set up taken apart in half the time it would take to pop nails, hut when the plywood is nailed it tends to pull the nail heads through the plywood. the boards and batton will not pull through as easily making the nails easier to pull out..
The comb will likely be attached to both inside and outside boards. If I had enough access to slide my Filet knife in as i loosened the board I would do as Apis said and carefully slice the comb from the outside board, leaving it attached to the inside board and studs. In some cases the best you can do is carefully pull it apart and deal with the results.
I like doing cut outs from the inside when possible. The bees tend to fuss with you less and go to the light. Doing the cut out in the house, the bees went to the windows and the rooms light rather than buzzing me. It made collecting them with the bee vac very simple. In this case I will have to agree with Pete and Apis.
Looks like a good job, looking forward to updates!
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Scott- I watched Mrs. Kays video again. When we do our cut out, how do I fill the deep with the frames that are rubberbanded?
How many frames of brood?
how many frames of honey?
Guess it would be prudent to take another deep or medium, medium I'm thinking, just in case there is more comb than anticipated?
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No, Jen. You only put brood in frames. Honey is too heavy and sticky. You will kill many bees trying to rubberband the honey in frames.
Keep the clean capped honey for yourself, and feed the dirty and uncapped honey back to the bees.
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What Iddee said.
The honey will just make a huge mess. Whatever honey you dont want dump out somewhere across the yard so the bees can rob it all out. I usually dump the extra comb and honey about 200 yards away from my hives if it, and the bees looked healthy.
As far as Brood.. How many frames do you want? If I can fill 12 to 14 frames with brood I do it. More bees to fill the hive, less comb they have to draw, more reason for them to STAY in the box I put them in...
I usually take two medium boxes to put the brood etc in and the two boxes under the bee vac. So I have three boxes with frames to put brood in if necessary, and of course the empty box for open space in the vac.
Once set up in the location it will remain, it gets a jar of syrup on top to get them going again.
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This is what we old-timers called board and batten construction. Scribe a straight, horizontal line about one foot above the hive. Nail a board on the wall, two duplex nails only as you will be removing this board. Set your skill saw to a depth sufficient to cut through the batten and the board behind. I think those unplanned boards will measure close to one inch think. Use the horizontal board as a rest and a guide for the skill saw and make a horizontal cut as long as required. Remove the Horizontal guide board and remove the battens where needed. By removing the battens first, it leaves a handy place to start to work with your crow bar. The edges you are prying against will not be seen when reconstructed. If rains are a problem, you can run your saw on an inverted 45 degree angle.
Just a thought from my presently drug altered mind that is 10 days out on knee replacement.
lazy
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Lazy shooter it will be more work to cut than to take the full boards off. You can see by the photos that the boards are only Nailed top, middle block, and at the bottom. The nails used are a fine head Finnish nail, which will pull thru the siding if they are longer than 1 1/2" long. The top of the boards do not go up under the soffit so there in nothing restricting the boards from being removed.
Jen use 2 pry bars together using a wiggle technique by altering force on each pry bar.
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Because of the gentleman I'll be working with on the day of the cut out (he's a half bubble off) I'll need to make this as easy as possible for the both of us. I'm reading all of your suggestions and working on a plan, and I have time to listen more. Thanks all of you on helping me with this new adventure.
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Scott- "If I can fill 12 to 14 frames with brood I do it. More bees to fill the hive, less comb they have to draw, more reason for them to STAY in the box I put them in...
Phill's hive is a single deep. If I fill all 10 frames with brood, where will the queen lay? Should I have a medium w/foundation ready to put on top?
Or...what I was picturing was, maybe 5 broods in the middle, then some nectar on each side to get them thru until they find the groceries out at he and his wife's place, and then a couple of frames of pulled wax so the queen can continue to lay? I thought it would look like a split.. ? scratching head
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only worry about saving the brood the bees will draw the new combs they need quick enough and they can be given a little syrup to keep them going if needed.
If Phill gets the bees it is only fair that you get the honey. Crush and strain baby!
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Last piece of advice make sure that you orient the comb correctly or you'll be leaking stuff all over the place. As the bees build the comb they have it with a 1 to 3 degree angle upwards. If you put it in upside down the bees will rework it to make it right.
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Apis- "Last piece of advice make sure that you orient the comb correctly or you'll be leaking stuff all over the place. As the bees build the comb they have it with a 1 to 3 degree angle upwards. If you put it in upside down the bees will rework it to make it right.
Ooooooh Riiiiight!! I would have forgotten that fine point right there! Thanks Apis! ;D
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Your welcome but it was Barry that posted it.
What Barry said.
Sent from my LG-P500h using Tapatalk 2
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Oh Dang it! Rot Good bito information rot thar Barry :) Thanks!
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Unhuh, I know on very rare occasions I have those pearls of wisdom
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Good advice from both Apis and Barry there.
As stated. worry about the brood. If you can cut six frames worth of brood then do it. put the empty frames outside of that. Give them syrup when hived so they have the instant resource they need to survive, and to build comb. They will get organized within a couple days and get guards and foragers going. Having the syrup will get them up to speed with nothing stored in the hive you put them in.
If they have long thin combs in that wall, it may take three pieces to fill a frame if you keep it oriented right. That is perfectly OK, and exactly what you want to do.
I am excited for you. This is a fantastic learning experience you wont soon forget.
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Some times on soft wood like cedar siding it is much easier to use a nail set or long punch with a small point ground on it to drive the nails on through the siding rather than try to pull them. Of course this only works it the nail head is small.
I would get them from the outside, remove the battens and boards in one piece. More than likely just between two studs.
I find taking two step ladders and putting two boards between them to make a "scaffold" of sorts works great and easier than a ladder leaned up against the wall.
Don't forget your smoker, it will work wonders moving bees around.