Worldwide Beekeeping
Beekeeping => Pests and Diseases => Topic started by: CpnObvious on July 28, 2014, 10:46:15 am
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We did our weekly inspections this past Saturday (well, it was two weeks since the previous one). In Hive #3, by far the STRONGEST hive, we spotted ~6 varroa mites. We eliminated 4 of them. Of the ones we got, 3 were on bees, 1 was on the comb, the other 2 were on bees, not sure if those are the one's we got or not... So we DEFINITELY saw 4, maybe as many as 6. We went through each and every frame quite meticulously, they started getting annoyed, but that's all we saw.
In order to nip this in the bud and prevent it from becoming an issue, how should I proceed?
Thank you folks!
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...... We went through each and every frame quite meticulously, they started getting annoyed, but that's all we saw.
In order to nip this in the bud and prevent it from becoming an issue, how should I proceed?
Thank you folks!
Unless you've checked EVERY BEE, top and bottom, front and back meticulously, and every drone cell too, you can rest assured that you've only seen the tip of the iceberg.
This is the time of year when the varroa mites start to magnify their populations.
I would recommend treating as soon as you can.
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What would you recommend I treat with?
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Your best advice for that question woud best be directed to beekeepers in the US. Here, in Israel , for example, oxalic acid treatment hasn't yet been put into use.
Today, the local recommended treatment is with chemical impregnated sticks that are placed between the brood nest frames and left in place for several weeks. This year we are using a new chemical and I don't remember its name.
I can tell you that two years ago I tried fogging with food grade mineral oil and was totally dissatisfied with the results.
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When it it time for me to treat, I'll use oxalic acid -however, as others will tell you, it is not approved for mites in the USA. I have used hopgaurd with okay results, but it costs a few dollars per treatment. There are various forms of formic acid and thymol that are also approved, and they do work. This (http://scientificbeekeeping.com/first-year-care-for-your-nuc/) article contains answers to your question, near the end of the article.
The products I hope I never have to use are the ones containing fluvanate and coumaphos, they leave residues in the honeycomb. HTH :)
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I have used Mite Away Quick Strips with very good results the last 2 years (Mass and NS are pretty much the same temps). Be careful of the temps if it gets hot during the 7 day treatment. I have seen some queens stop laying for the first few days the strips are in, but they resume shortly after that.
Ef's advice is spot on, if you can actually see that many on the bees, rest assured they are there in greater numbers.
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OK. I ordered my bucket-o-MAQS last night. Ordered from Betterbee. Ended up being cheaper and I think I'll get it faster. So I'll obviously have to treat Hive #3 for 3 weeks. But I have two questions about that...
1) All the instructions say on top of the brood area, but the how-to pictures show in between the upper and lower deep. I have brood in both. Do I put the pads in between or on top and then and empty duper above that for aspiration?
2) Hive #2 is only 17" away from Hive #3. I saw no signs of mites in hive #2. Should I treat with 1 pad for 3 weeks as a precaution?
Thanks again for your help! My poor babies have bed bugs, well comb bugs. :sad:
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First, they treatment period for MAQS is only 7 days. At the end of the 7th day the spent strips can be removed, or allow the bees themselves to dispose of it.
For a double, put your strip/pads on the top bars of the lower deep, set your second deep on that, and then add an empty medium with frames of foundation or empty comb on top.
I have heard reports from some that did not put on that top empty super and a few saw some brood mortality.
Fortunately they have also started marketing 2 packs for the hobbiest market. Nothing worse than having to buy enough to treat 10 hives and having to throw away eight of the treatments. I supplied a few folks with strips from my supply to save them money.
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So I'm a little confused now. I did see the smaller packs, but it seemed to make more sense to get the pail. What's the shelf life?
The reason I wrote 3 weeks of treatment is because I read on one of the sales sites, or maybe directly per the instructions, a reminder that the brood cycle is 21 days... So if the mite larva are in the cell with the bee larva, wouldn't you need to treat for 3 weeks to fully cycle all closed cells?
Should I worry about Hive #2 next to Hive #3? A single strip, maybe?
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I have not used MAQS, but know that some treatments are effective through the cappings of the cells. You may want to check on that.
Drifting bees and drones will transfer mites to other hives.. If they did not do this we would not all have mites in our hives right now, so I would recommend treating them all, but I would also recommend checking each of them, depending on your method of treatment.. and again, I have not used MAQS..
Hopguard.. I have found it effective if used back to back, three treatments in a row.. but this can only be done once a year according to the instructions.. maybe the Hopguard II is better?
Look into Oxalic Acid Vapor treatment.. No, it is not approved for use in the USA.. I keep hoping some billionair decides to become a beekeeper and puts out the money to get it approved.. until that happens it will remain a means of bleaching the frames in your hives.. BUT!!!! The good news is, when you bleach those frames, you kill a LOT of mites, and to date, there is nothing detrimental to the bees, brood, wax or honey.. apparently it is only detrimental to mites.. ;D
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My MAQS arrived yesterday. I will be putting the strips in this weekend. I did call NOD Global (the manufacturer) to ask a few questions... I hope other newbies read this, good info.
1) MAQS only have a guaranteed shelf life of 1 year... HOWEVER, if you please them in the freezer they will be good until you need them. The formic acid is infused in a chocolate-like substance in/on the wick. If allowed to warm up, it will melt off and lose it's power. If you freeze it, it will stay good for however long you need it to be.
2) I ordered this because I' beginning to see signs of mites in one hive. This yard has two hives in it. They recommend treating any hives that are in the yard to be safe.
3) My hives are new this year. They were packages (not nucs) that had a very late start. Although these two hives are quite strong, they recommend only using 1 strip in each hive, then another strip in each hive in 4 weeks.
4) MAQS DOES work through the cappings. I had ordered the 10-pack bucket because the way I was reading/interpreting information about MAQS is as follows:
WRONG *** a package treats for 7 days + larva life cycle is 21 days = 3 treatments (packages) needed *** WRONG
RIGHT ~~~ a package treats for 7 days. You may want to sticky-board test in 14 days, then maybe treat again after 4 weeks. One package needed ~~~ RIGHT
NOD seems to be a very friendly, helpful company and they welcome questions and calls.
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It sounds like you have a handle on your problem, be sure to keep us in the loop about the way it turned out for your bees. :)
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This info is so useful to us. I did the Vaseline board under my screen bottom board for 3 days and came out with about 10 mites which would be about 3 or 4 in 24 hours. I feel like I need to treat my bees as well. Will check out Hopguard, MAQS and OA Vapor.
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This past Sunday (081011) was Day #7 of the MAQS treatment. Maybe it was the time of day I tried to do my inspections (5:15/5:30-ish), but neither hive seemed to want me around. Both of these hives were rather eager to get me away. I hope it wasn't the formic acid that made them shoo me away. Has anyone experienced this before? I think it was just the time of day, nearing it's end. I was only able to remove the compostable application pad from Hive #3.
Testing: These two hive do have screened bottom boards, but I never removed the 1/2 insulation board sealing off the screen. I'll do that mid next week so that I can put a sticky-board (probably vaseline, like marion used) underneath to see what/if anything comes down.
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Hi Cpn - Yes, I've used formic acid quick strips, I think they work well when used according to instructions. Yes, there was a little testiness after the fogging. I would be testy too is some giant came up to my house and fogged the blazes out of it >:(
But it was just a few days more when the testiness settled down. And, then I noticed that the bees were happier and more energetic than before the fogging and unloading of all those mites.
I used an Oxalic Acid Vaporizer now, and noticed right of the bat that it didn't change anything about the bees behavior. Killed the mites and the bees remained happy.
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Did our inspections yesterday (Aug 17th. I could only get 1/2-way through Hive #3 before the told me to go away... But we did get all the way through Hive #2. It's been 2 weeks since we put the MAQS in... One strip in each. We saw 1 mite walking around on the comb of Hive #2. From what we got through in Hive #3 we didn't see any. I'll probably call the manufacturer again... but should I re-treat them? Should I wait until net weekend, or should I get the strip in as soon as possible?
Thank you guys (and gals)!
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Jen, I assume when you mention fogging you are referring to Oxalic and not Formic.
The strong vapours of the formic can make the bees testy so that is not unusual.
I would give them a break before hitting them again. I have always used 2 strips, the full dose, and have experienced a few queens shutting down for a few days in the beginning, but they have always rebounded extremely well after treatment.
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Perry- "Jen, I assume when you mention fogging you are referring to Oxalic and not Formic
Hi Perry :) So MAQS is more of a vapor.. not a fog? Seems to me I didn't see a fog come out from the hive last fall, sketchy memory. But I have seen a fog come out from the OAV.
MAQS = vapor ?
OAV = fog ?
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Hey Jen:
The only vapourization I have heard of is Oxalic, and sometimes mineral oil. I have never heard of anyone vapourizing formic. The formic fumes themselves do the deed, there is no vapourization that I'm aware of. I could stand to be corrected.
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a fog, a fume, a vapor? I must have missed that day in school :D
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Something I learned from the state bee inspector today. I talked to him about how I treated my hives with MAQS and mentioned how they've been a bit testy lately... Apparently my treatment coincided with a dearth we are in right now. Even though I continue to feed them, he attributes their attitude to the dearth. He says he's noticed bees everywhere acting up the last couple weeks.
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well yeah capn, that would make sense, nectar/and or pollen dearth and gettin MAQ-ed..........i'd be testy too............. :D
queen might shut down laying, foragers are restless and housebees too, nothing to do. no food to forage for or food in the house to sustain or raise babies, except what's left and maybe some artificial stuff or the samo, or maybe bread and butter sandwiches instead of pbj or better stuff, and then someone comes along and gases your house........... :D
sorry capn, i couldn't help myself but in all seriousness, dearths (pollen/and or nectar) can and will make bees testy, treating them with a chemical on top of the dearth, well........very cranky bees. ;) dearths affect our colonies in many ways!
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Riv - "or maybe bread and butter sandwiches instead of pbj or better stuff, and then someone comes along and gases your house.....
:D
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or maybe bread and butter sandwiches instead of pbj or better stuff
Problem with that... I don't like or use butter/margerin/etc... HOUSTON! We have a problem! :laugh:
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I will correct you Perry You did have it right
I have never heard of anyone vapourizing formic. The formic fumes themselves do the deed, there is no vaporization that I'm aware of
when you open formic acid it temp of vaporization is low enough so that it vaporizes on its own as Oxalic acid crystals need to be heated to vaporize of be diluted in water and dribbled onto the bees. So both these are used as a vapor for killing the mites as apposed to chemicals that get transferred from bee to bee and the mite comes in contact to kill it, like products as Apistan and Apiguard.
Oxalic acid is a quick treatment that will only kill the mites that are out side of the sealed brood. where Formic is a longer evaporation that can extend the evaporation time over 1 to 3 weeks depending on method of delivery. It is recommended that oxalic be used only after the bees have ceased brood rearing in the fall or before they start brood rearing in the spring. to use it while brood rearing is in progress would require 3 applications at a week apart and in tests that this was done the treatments was detrimental to the health of the queens.
Correction it was a beekeeper that reported this to the bee inspector, and it was determined that he over treated during active brood rearing.
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Hey Apis, I would like to know where you read that OAV is detrimental to the queens. I haven't come across that yet, it would be good to know ~
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to use it while brood rearing is in progress would require 3 applications at a week apart and in tests that this was done the treatments was detrimental to the health of the queens.
Me too. Everything I have read and can find says there is no harmful side effects of OAV.. OA Dribble is a very different story.
One of the tests treated the bees with OAV for three months every week with no harmful side effects, so if there is evidence to the contrary I would appreciate a link so I can check it out.. Because this is exactly how I have treated... I don't like to go out and disturb the bees in the cold, so I treat twice, skip a week and treat a third time. I have never noticed any problems, but would also like to avoid problems!
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Speaking of OA dribble regarding the queen, maybe if the solution is dribbled right onto the queen... but then again would'nt it be that way with any of the other bees that got hit with the dribble. Frankly, I don't know much about this procces either.
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With another week of 100 degree weather, I don't even want to put my sticky board under my sbb right now. but if I do have to treat this year it will either be granulated sugar food processed to powdered, or OA. Read somewhere about an inexpensive aromatherapy vaporizer to treat the hives. Sounds within my budget.
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At a bee meeting last fall the bee inspector stated that there was some concern of a beekeeper experiencing queen supersedure after oxalic treatment. The Ministry of Agriculture did testing on oxalic in vapor form and they found it caused problems with the survivability of open brood in the hive. I called the inspector and he suspects that some of the supersedure problems from the beekeeper was due to the bees thinking the queens were failing because of frequent over application of oxalic. He was treating weekly during early summer during active brood rearing at a higher than recommended dosage. This is why the Ministry of Agriculture only recommends treating once and when no brood is present in the hive so it is most effective.
There is the paragraph from the web site. http://www.al.gov.bc.ca/apiculture/factsheets/221_varroa.pdf (http://www.al.gov.bc.ca/apiculture/factsheets/221_varroa.pdf)
Oxalic Acid
Oxalic acid (Oxalic acid dehydrate) should only be applied in late fall when the colony has no brood. Any open brood in the colony is likely to be killed by oxalic acid.
Even though the product is not as volatile as formic acid, always wear rubber gloves and safety glasses when handling the product. Avoid inhalation of vapors.
Oxalic acid treatment should be applied only once.
Oxalic acid can be applied at cool temperatures, either through vaporization crystals heated and converted directly into a gas vapor) or trickling an acid-sugar syrup solution onto the bees.
Acid-sugar syrup solution:
Prepare 1 liter of 1:1 sugar solution.
Add 35 g of oxalic acid crystals to the warm solution and stir gently until fully dissolved. The sugar syrup solution will have an acid concentration of 3.5% .
With a syringe or applicator, trickle 5 ml of solution directly onto the bees in each of the occupied bee spaces between frames in each brood box.
The maximum dose is 50 ml of acid solution per colony whether it is a nuc single or multiple brood chambered hive.
Vaporizer method:
Seal all upper hive entrances and cracks, and reduce the main entrance.
Smoke bees up from the bottom board.
Place 2 g of oxalic acid dehydrate into the vaporizer. Insert vaporizer through the bottom entrance.
Follow manufacturer’s instructions for vaporizer use.
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using the dribble method in syrup causes the bees to ingest the syrup, and is proven to shorten their lifespan.. In summer bees this is not an issue as they live approximately six weeks, but in winter bees it could be detrimental to the longevity of the hive..
Of the arguments against OAV I can only relate my own experiences..
I have not yet had a Treated hive supersede, and I have not seen any larvae removed from the hive after treatment. None of the first year hives have been treated yet, second year hives are about to be treated starting tomorrow. They were treated last year and this spring as mentioned. Twice a week apart, skip a week and a single treatment again. I do not use more than is recommended, in fact I err on the side of caution and have had very good results, so see no need to "amp up" the treatment dosage, and that warning gives me a good reason not to try it.
The two hives that were on the edge of crashing I treated in June literally exploded after treatment. One produced three supers of honey, the other two (And are refilling them again) with no apparent affect on queen or brood. Two weeks after treatment both hives had multiple frames of capped brood, and I did not "see" a supersedure in progress at any time.
Starting the treatment schedule tomorrow I will pay CLOSE attention and see if I find any of the mentioned signs of problems.
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Mkay, my turn :) I have treated my hive, which turned into three more hives, four times beginning first week in January. I paid close attention to every time I treated watching for a couple of days. In my experience, nothing changed any of the hives, except that the bees were faster and busier after treatment. I found one large larvae outside after one treatment this summer. To date, I have two purchased queens, and two swarmy queens, all four queens went thru the 2 treatment back to back. I have no evidence that any queen was superceded ~
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but if I do have to treat this year it will either be granulated sugar food processed to powdered, or OA.
When I met our state inspector the other day he told us about the different treatments. One thing he says he's noticed in his 37 years of doing this is that the mites seem to have adapted to the sugar-dusting method. He says they now latch on to the bee further in and that the sugar doesn't get to them. Then the other bees clean the sugar off each other, missing the mites as they are further between the abdomen and thorax(?). He pointed out what he meant on one bee.
Have you more experienced beeks found this to be the case as well?
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I haven't read the whole thread, but what I do for mites is probably different than what most do & I have no mite problems.
I make the little sugar/crisco patties but I add some mentholatum to it. A cup of sugar, a cup of crisco, & a half bottle of mentholatum. It smells pretty strong but it does the trick for me. I have had severe mites, they were gone within a day of using this little homemade concoction. Just patty it out about the size of a hamburger patty. Put it on a piece of wax paper & sit it on top of the frames of the top box. Done.
It's cheap & it's all available at your local store.
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Hi Bee :) somewhere in the recesses of my mind (I think that is a title to a song back when) about mentholatum. Curious, how do you know that the mites are gone? do you have a sticky board under a screen bottom board and can see dead mites?
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No sticky board. The mites that I have the most problems with are trachea mites. You can't see them, but you can see the bees gasping for air as they are suffocating to death. They gasp & wiggle around & fall dead by the handfuls. Once this concoction is applied the dying stops. I forgot to also mention that I use apiguard every fall before the temps cool down. Probably in September.
I have had a small problem with varroa mites, but not bad. These two things are the only things I have ever done in 4-1/2 years of beekeeping. It seems to be working.
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Geeez, that must be just awful to watch. Don't have trachea yet, but have to keep a check on varroa.
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It is terrible to watch. Especially the first time when I had no idea what was happening.
I watched the whole hive die before I could figure out what was happening. It happened again the next year. Every one was saying to get menthol crystals & that would take care of it. Well I don't keep those sitting around & I could not find them to buy locally. I had to leave town the next day for 3 days & I knew that the whole hive would be dead by the time I got back. So out of desperation I went to the local pharmacy & bought some mentholatum. I put it in the patties that I had been using for the varroa mites & installed it before I left town. When I got back the hive looked as healthy as any hive could ever look. So every nuc or split I make gets one of these patties immediately.
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Good to know ;D
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Beeboy is using 2 different products and 2 different treatments for mites. Crisco menthol patties for the trachea mites, and Apiguard for controlling varroa. each of these treatments only works on the one type of mite. Formic acid treatments as well as oxalic acid works to kill both mites so even though we are treating against varroa that we can see and easily test for. We are also keeping the trachea mites under control.
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Thank you for the info. Glad I used the MAQS on my hive.
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Beeboy is using 2 different products and 2 different treatments for mites. Crisco menthol patties for the trachea mites, and Apiguard for controlling varroa. each of these treatments only works on the one type of mite. Formic acid treatments as well as oxalic acid works to kill both mites so even though we are treating against varroa that we can see and easily test for. We are also keeping the trachea mites under control.
Actually the crisco patties work for the varroa mites, but only for the trachea mites when the menthol is put in the patty.
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apiguard is said to work for both varroa and tracheal mites.
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Hives treated Friday with OAV. I check the ground and bottom boards about once every two hours from when I wake to when I go to bed, Its Sunday just after lunch time. No larvae being taken out of hives at this point. I will continue to check, and will re inspect these hives next Friday for queen cells, and then treat them the second time. This is a total of 22 hives 12 treated Friday, 10 treated Saturday.
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Will this be your last treatment for the year?
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Yep.. I'll treat next friday, skip a week and treat one more time and be done until spring. Just went out and wandered through hives to check for any larvae that have been tossed.. None yet, still looking.
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Lazy,
I am starting this this week also. Keep us posted, I am gonna follow your schedule.
So your basically doing 3 treatments in a 2 week period.
Also, how many treatments can you do with one charge on your battery. Mine went dead after about 6 but it was brand new and I didn't charge it before using. I have a known full charge now. Just wondering what I should get.
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Yankee. I do three treatments...
Treatement one
Wait 7 days do treatment two 7th day
Wait one week do nothing 14th day
Wait another week treat again 21st day
The idea is that the first two treatments will kill existing mites, and the third treatment on the 21st day will catch the bees/mites emerging that had JUST been capped when you started the first treatment.
I run my vaporizer from the truck battery while the truck is idling. I run the jumper cables out and hook those the the clips on the vaporizer. I use the ground on the battery to turn the vaporizer on and off and that keeps me away from any fumes.
From speaking with others a truck/car battery will last anywhere from six to twelve uses. One fellow used the big deep cycle from his boat and said he treated 15 hives with it. I haven't tried it without the truck running. When I treat its usually 20 or more hives getting treated so rather than worry about it, and or carry multiple batteries I just use ol Betty so I can keep on keeping on.
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I use one of these (http://www.harborfreight.com/3-in-1-jump-starter-and-power-supply-60657.html) for my vaporizor. Most I've treated at once is about four hives. If you are fortunate to treat when there is no brood, you need only one treatment. Shoot for that if you can. :)
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apiguard is said to work for both varroa and tracheal mites.
I didn't know that.
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beeboy,
can't say i have ever used it for this purpose (t-mites) but the claim is it does from the website and other material i have read, and also treatment of chalkbrood. i have used apiguard in the past with success to knock down varroa, most of the beeks i know use menthol crystals or grease patties for t mites, but two beeks i know had apiguard on hand and used it for a t-mite problem, one for chalkbrood and requeened, said it worked:
Apiguard (http://www.vita-europe.com/products/apiguard/)
Trachael Mites / Acarine (http://www.vita-europe.com/diseases/trachael-mites-acarine/)
randy oliver on 'natural treatments' and thymol:
"Thymol has the added advantage of being active against fungus (chalkbrood) and tracheal mite (to some extent). Unfortunately, it can also leave honey with a “Listerine” taste. Thymol acts as a fumigant (although it doesn’t kill many mites in the brood) —all cracks and holes in the hive need to be sealed, and screened bottoms blocked."
IPM 7 The Arsenal: “Natural” Treatments – Part 2 (http://scientificbeekeeping.com/ipm-7-the-arsenal-natural-treatments-part-2/)
uc davis entomology on treatment for t-mites:
"A new (to the U.S.) formulation of thymol (thymol gel) may become registered in
California by summer of 2006 for varroa mite control. Thymol acts as a fumigant against
mites in beehives is effective against tracheal mites. Apiguard®"
Treating Colonies for Tracheal Mite Infestation (http://entomology.ucdavis.edu/files/147624.pdf)
dave cushman on t mites:
Treatment of Honey Bees for infestation of Acarine Mites-Tracheal Mites (http://www.dave-cushman.net/bee/acarinetreatment.html)
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Wouldn't it be better to treat early moring or late evening?
I would think the more bees in the hive when you treat the better.
I was amazed at how the bees didn't seem to care at all. I could hear the roar inside the hive when it started vaporizing but no bee came out. Only killed one bee out of 6 hives.
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Yes it would, and as LB said, if you can treat when there is no brood it is the best and only need One treatment. I treat the way I do because I don't like to go out in the cold, and I also dont like to disturb the hives when its cold. If I find in the future that treating as I do has some detrimental effect I will have to start treating once the bees cluster.
I had difficulty understanding how it was possible to treat when the bees were clustered. HOW is the vapor supposed to get through a thick cluster of bees?
It turns out that the crystals are transferred through contact, so the crystals you coat the outside layer of bees with will get carried into the center of the cluster and transferred through the entire cluster.. In the same manner, if you treat when foragers are out, when they return the crystals will get transferred.
Treating HALF a hive with a divider in place actually still had a 65% effectiveness at mite reduction on the other half.. The divider was removed after treatment, the crystals transferred and the mites killed. Granted, it was not as effective as direct treatment but it still had a positive effect.
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I am thinking that treating now would give them a better chance of building up stronger for the winter?
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If they have a lot of mites I would agree completely.
That is yet another reason to treat this time of the year.. As Larry COnnor says... Take care of he bees, that will take care of the bees, that will care for the bees that will be going into winter.
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I'm putting together an order and need to make sure that I'm reading this right... I have 3 hives (6 brood bodies)
Apivar® is packaged in vacuum-sealed foil pouches that each contain 10 strips. A single application of two strips per brood chamber is sufficient to treat a hive, so you spend less time and effort treating your bees, and there is less disruption of the bees than with many other treatments.
Do I really need to order 2 packages so I have the 12? I guess I would, huh? The upper deeps look like they're becoming more of a honey store for the winter. Do those need the strips?.. Would that mean I only need 2 strips per hive? I'm clearly thinking too much... but don't want to over-order treatments... AGAIN!
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A brood box is not determined by size. It is what is in it that says what it is. Use 2 strips per 8 or 10 frames of brood, depending on what boxes you are using. It is not an exact measurement.
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In checking hives today.. I found Larvae outside the hives.. A LOT of larvae!!!!
I had one of those moments where, the bladder decides it needs to be unleashed? Then I looked closer, and I looked even closer.... Drones. ALL drone brood, and there were drones crawling EVERYWHERE.. Apparently the ladies have decided that all freeloaders DIE today!
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Apparently the ladies have decided that all freeloaders DIE today!
It doesn't seem to matter the species... they can all be cold and cruel when they want to be. :laugh: