Worldwide Beekeeping
Beekeeping => Beekeeping 101 => Topic started by: CpnObvious on August 10, 2014, 06:47:12 pm
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OK. So I was unable to complete my hive inspections today because the bees weren't too thrilled with me... but you can read about that in my journey thread... the issue at hand:
I was only able to get 9 frames through the upper deep before the girls made it clear they were done with my presence. This is my second strongest hive... but there is a big gap between my weakest hive and this one. As I go through the frames I say that 11-20 are in the upper deep and 1-10 are in the lower.
Frame 14? (in the upper deep) has a peanut on it. It wasn't there last week when I inspected. Might have had a cup, but no egg, not that I saw anyway.
What do I do???
I was thinking about making another hive (I don't have the equipment) and taking out a few frames of brood with the current active queen and putting them into a new 10-frame deep along with some honey/syrup. I would trap them in there and move this new hive to the same apiary as Hive #1.
Is this the right thing? This, along with a few other things, is why I wish some of you more skilled folk were closer to me... I sure could use another set of eyes and some hands-on help now and then.
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Pictures really help !
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That is a supercedure cell. Take it out and the hive will likely become queenless and die. Leave it as is.
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I would agree!
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"gah! a queen cell - peanut exists! what should I do???"
nothing........
"That is a supercedure cell. Take it out and the hive will likely become queenless and die. Leave it as is."
what iddee said capn, leave it alone.
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As Iddee stated At this time of year unless you have overcrowded the hive by not providing enough space swarming should be over. If you were finding 10 cells this would be an indication of swarming finding less than 5 is superseding.
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I concur, and being in Mass. I would say it is getting awfully late to pull a nuc except to maybe have in the wings to combine with something later if it fails. Another month and we should be looking at combining any weak stuff up here.
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Here's a few pics. What I don't understand is why they'd want to replace the current queen. She's a laying machine! I did see her, and she's laying away!
(Yes, my nitrile gloves are purple. I'm secure-enough in my manhood where I can wear let comfortably... WAAAAAAY better than trying to get propolis off my fingers!)
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They usually know better than we do the state of their queen. That looks like a newly made cell and will guess it is day nine or ten. If they were going to swarm they would have been about it about the time that cell was capped. They wouldn't be wanting to replace her if everything was as it should be.
I have had multiple packages supersede even earlier during swarm season. If they were not super crowded I let them do their thing! I have already started combining hives that were weak to insure they had time to get everything sorted out and built up for winter.
If you have drawn frames to put them on, making a Nucleus hive with the old queen might be ready in time for winter. If they had to draw the frames it would be a struggle with no guarantee of success, especially if the fall flow is a bust. SO like everyone else said, I would let them raise the new queen. I would even refrain from checking on that hive for about two weeks to let the new queen get acclimated and mated. At which time you may even find you have TWO laying queens in that hive.
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Perry- "Another month and we should be looking at combining any weak stuff up here.
What about upper California?
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No scientific explanation, just intuition from 38 years of playing with bees.............
I do not think that is a viable queen cell. It is too far away from a frame of capped brood, it is on a super frame, not a brood frame, it has only capped drone cells around it. There are very few bees on the frame.
Overall, it just doesn't add up. I'm guessing it is either a queen cell made from a drone larva, or just an oversize, misshaped drone cell.
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I agreed with Iddee before we had pics... then when I saw the pics it looks like a bent over drone cell to me, it doesn't have the waffling that I'm used to seeing... but just in case I think I would leave it alone anyway ~
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No scientific explanation, just intuition from 38 years of playing with bees.............
I do not think that is a viable queen cell. It is too far away from a frame of capped brood, it is on a super frame, not a brood frame, it has only capped drone cells around it. There are very few bees on the frame.
Overall, it just doesn't add up. I'm guessing it is either a queen cell made from a drone larva, or just an oversize, misshaped drone cell.
That is exactly what I was going to say until I scrolled down and read Iddee's post. My money is that it just dissapears. Nothing around it leads me to believe it's any good.
Jen, we start cooling off a lot sooner than you down there, so I'm not sure how to answer for your area. :-[
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Hrm.. I wish I had that frame in hand to look at it better..
What I noted was the three capped worker cells and the few drone cells. Looking now I can see the arch where it is meant to be a brood frame.. I have learned not to argue with Iddee, so will defer to his judgement.... But I considered it legit, and the evidence is the three capped worker cells.
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And when have you ever seen 3 capped worker cells inches apart, with no others on the frame? I don't think I ever have. Just 3 more odd size drone cells, imho. Again, only speculation.
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Perry think about west coast beekeeping during winter with Okanagan weather in spring summer and fall. Mild no real cold winter and hot and dry the rest or the year. Jen you are in a climate where the weather being to mild and the bees overactive is harder on the bees than what the cold is.
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When I had a queen that had issues... I think she had an obsessive compulsive disorder about bees licking cells clean.. :P I suppose they could be drone cells, I have never seen drone cells capped with such small caps, but one of the many reasons I show up here is to learn! Interested to see what happens!
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It's moment's like this when I can really understand why Jen says the bees keep her thinking and confused :eusa_wall:
Here's where that peanut-like cell is located on the frame in the first pic...
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Sooo, is there a definitive answer here?
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Sooo, is there a definitive answer here?
Yes! You're all going on a roadtrip to North-Central Massachusetts!
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LOL yes, the answer is to do nothing and let the bees sort it out in either situation. If its a queen emulating drone or a drone wishing he were a queen, the bees will sort the situation out to their best advantage in this case.
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Done! Nice thread :agree:
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Should I worry about making a nuc box as a swarm trap just in case?
To help set a time-line... This is the same spot 7 days ago. As you can see there's no queen cup... so your thoughts of a messed-up drone cell is probably supported. What are your thoughts as far as a time-frame... birth between the end of this week, beginning of next?
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Three days as an egg. 6 days left before it is capped. Capped queen cell by day 9. It is my opinion that if they were going to swarm they would make more than one, and they would likely have swarmed within a day or so before or after it was capped. But you will get no argument from me about setting out a swarm box. If they dont swarm you have it ready to set out in the spring! If its a drone you only feel foolish for having worried and I learned that drone cells can look like queen cells! ;D
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Sooo, is there a definitive answer here?
Yes! You're all going on a roadtrip to North-Central Massachusetts!
That's a coincidence. Earlier today I looked up on the map where you are to see if that was too far for a road trip some day. I have long dreamed of doing one (never been) along the eastern part of the USA, stopping along the way to say Hi to some of you.
It doesn't hurt that you are not far away from Maxant either! :)
Edit: Unless the queen wandered over to this section of the frame, laid a viable egg, and then wandered away, I still maintain it's a dud. If it were a true supercedure cell, the queen would hatch out, but there should be all kinds of capped worker brood cells all around this one, and there isn't.