Worldwide Beekeeping
Beekeeping => Pests and Diseases => Topic started by: tedh on August 16, 2014, 08:35:46 am
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Hi Everyone,
I'm going to add Fumagilin-B to the syrup in hopes of decreasing the chances of Nosema in the winter months to come. The hope is that the bees will store and cap the Fumagilin laced syrup for winter consumption. The question I have is: when should I start this? Thanks, Ted
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I will start my winter feeding/prep in late September. I pull any remaining supers and re arrange hives with the capped frames from those supers. Extract the frames I need to, and put three of them back in the center of the top box, then feed fast so they have a month or so to prepare/dehydrate/cap the treated syrup in those frames before November gets here. The second week of November is when I usually pick a decent day and begin wrapping hives. Putting on the top insulation etc..
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Ted, I think planning ahead is a good thing. As I read your question a thought popped into my mind. My thought concerns the temperatures that antibiotics must be stored to keep their effectiveness. After your fumagillin gets into the honeycomb.....how long will those germ killing properties be viable when they are exposed to temperatures well outside those on the label? Residues will make it through the winter for sure, but will they really help against nosema? You may well point to another gap in my education Ted, I wish you well. :)
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Lburou: Oh man, I was hoping this question would go away. So, to, uh, answer your question.. You see...um, ah, Lazy? How about fielding this one?
What can I say? I'm just trying to get through this first year with some bees! Lazy had mentioned this and it sounded good to me.
I'm sorry, Ted.
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Don't worry Ted, we're all on the side of our bees. :)
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Sorry, wasnt paying attention..
Yes, the Fumagilan will last through the winter. If capped in the cells of the upper box they will reach it when they need it most. Basically after being confined for three months or more when the N. Cerenae is most prevalent and the medicated syrup is needed worst.
I made the decision last year NOT to use it going into fall after reading some of the negative comments on its use.. I payed the price with two hives I should have been able to save. When I realized they had Nosema, I attempted to feed, but at that time of the year they would not take the syrup, even from a baggie on the top bars. This year I will again make sure I have it capped.
The seasonal trend of typical infections exhibits low levels during summer, a small peak in autumn, and a slow rise of infection during winter. It is more common during times of confinement - winter and spring. In the spring, the level of infection increases rapidly as brood-rearing starts and while flight possibilities are still limited. Colonies in northern climates are more seriously affected than colonies in the south because of the increased amount of time bees are confined in the hive. Nosema, if left untreated, can cause queen supersedure, winter kills, reduced honey yields, and dwindling populations.
I had not NOTICED any problems in the past, but always fed syrup in the fall. My decision NOT to treat showed me two things. One, that my bees WERE susceptible, and TWO, that using it in the past had NOT been a mistake, no matter what anyone else may say against its use.
Scott
Beekeepers who have fed fumagillin to field colonies years ago had noted significant differences in colony build up. In fact, many of them stopped using fumagillin. The colonies built up too quickly and swarm control became nearly impossible.
http://entomology.ucdavis.edu/files/147621.pdf
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"Oh man, I was hoping this question would go away. So, to, uh, answer your question.. You see...um, ah, Lazy? How about fielding this one?
What can I say? I'm just trying to get through this first year with some bees! Lazy had mentioned this and it sounded good to me.
I'm sorry, Ted."
scott did a great job fielding the question. ted, the question should not go away, because others as yourself are looking for answers and the 'right' thing to do. i think first and foremost, as i have said before, we as beekeepers need to understand what we are doing and why/ when we are medicating bees/purpose/reason and not simply do it blindly because it's the thing to do, or what we have read or been told to do. and i am not taking away from what scott's recommendation for you is, so please do not misunderstand me, and you either scott.
lots of controversy over the use of fumigillan/fumidil b as scott mentioned, however i would not hesitate to use it on my colonies going into a northern winter. recommendations in the past were for fall and spring treatments. i don't find it necessary to treat them with fumigilin in early spring months unless i see evidence to do so.
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Absolutely spot on Riverbee! I didn't mean for the question to "go away" so much as I hoped I wouldn't have to try to answer it. For me, it seems as though some of the info I read, here, and from other sources is, if not contradictory, at least complicated. By complicated I mean it sometimes, maybe even many times, seems to be a choice of the "lesser evils". As a new beekeeper (for example) I've read three different "beginner" books. There seems to be two (that I've read about) different philosophies regarding beekeeping. One: to medicate. Two: not to medicate. Personally, I'd like to use no medications or chemicals. That's just me. But, do I go chemical free and hope for the best? Do I medicate in the spring and fall for nosema, mites, foul brood, and lord knows what else because that's what the books say? Or, do I judiciously use medications, only as needed, when needed. I'm hoping to fall into that last category. Unfortunately, the jury is still out on that one. Time will tell. A few weeks back I did a mite check. Lazy told me how he did it using ether. My thought was, ether? Man, that doesn't sound good. So I read about a "sugar shake". Now that sounded GOOD! I've got powdered sugar, I don't have ether. Sugar doesn't kill bees, ether does. To me that was a no brainer. The book I read and a few other sources said to "shake vigorously", like you're making a martini. So, I did. That was an awful experience for me and probably the bees as well. I reported my experience on the forum. Iiddee said to "gently roll" the bees, let sit, gently roll again, let sit, etc. Gently roll, THAT sounds good and that's what I'll do next time I think I need to check for mites. So, as a new beekeep I'd found what sounded like a good process, checked a few sources and went with it, had a horrible experience, and learned from it. Maybe that's were some of the new keeps problems come from, lack of experience. What I'm doing now is listening to Scott, deciding if his way is the way for me to go, and taking actions based on that decision. I feel like I need to be able to trust somebody and following the lead of an experienced person sounds like a good plan. Will I follow him blindly? No! Will I trust his experience when I'm in doubt? Yeah, yeah I probably will. I find myself looking forward to next year and the years to come. To a time when I'll have more experience of problems and solutions. Wow! I'm kinda rambling. I'm in a little pain, and yes, somewhat stoned. My apologies, Ted
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Ted- "Wow! I'm kinda rambling. I'm in a little pain, and yes, somewhat stoned. My apologies, Ted
LOL Ted! I hear ya, I'm in a little bit of pain everyday... these days. We should talk, I'll pm ya
First off Ted, I think you are in good hands with Scott. There are a couple of members on this forum that I will pm when I need one single bit of advice. You will find, and sooner than you think, that you will be able to fit more and more puzzle pieces together in the bee world. My first three years were filled with calamity after calamity. Then I found, or I should say this forum found me, and I was able to get some straight forward answers right away.
Scott is good at letting you choose the way you want to go, or the way you want to try. If it doesn't feel right, keep doing you homework and find another way.
In my opinion, I don't like shaking the heck out of bees, or killing them with ether. I observed the ether method in a bee class, and I persoanlly tried the sugar shake. It didn't feel right. So I use a sticky board with screen bottom boards and OAV.
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I've been outside, sitting in the shade, thinking. I just made up my mind and came inside to delete my previous post as I'm VERY embarrassed by it. Too Late. Jen found it. Thanks Jen. :-[ Ted
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Well Ted I didn't find anything embarrassing about your post. Relax, it may have been that I needed to see it and maybe help you if I can. The universe works that way ya know. Sent you a pm. Now you can delete if you feel the need. It's all good ;)
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Embarrassed? Why? Save that for when Josh gets a pic of you standing outside in your underwear having your morning coffee and then posts it here...
If I talk to someone or they read my website, I advocate exactly what you are doing. Asking questions and learning, and then modifying to suit.
The GOAL at the end is to have live bees in the spring. Spring, at least to me, is the end, and the beginning of the "BEE" calendar. The end of last year, the beginning of this year. What you have in the spring determines the course of action the rest of the year.
I have tried the no medication route, and didnt like the results. It was only two colonies. The rest had no problems. I split to replace them, and got along fine. I just prefer to NOT lose two colonies (or more) next spring if I can help it. It is always easier to save them and give them a different queen than it is to start over.
With the information overload heaped on a new beekeeper, deciding to go with no treatments or medication is a HUGE draw. I can say from past experience that it is also one that will cause the loss of the most bees. Especially if your starting your beekeeping experience with package bees. They are not bred for resistances and winter survival, they are bred to produce booming colonies that can be shaken into packages. That is not saying they do not have the genetics or ability to survive, JUST that it was not the primary consideration.
With 40+ hives it is easier for me to fix/replace loss. With one or two, or even five hives it is not as easy to replace colonies that die. I am adding genetics and queens to my Apiaries. When I have some confidence in my bees ability to resist mites and disease I will stop treating the selected colonies and put them in an outyard. Some of them will die, but I will not lose my "only" hive or hives. I will not lose my production colonies, I will not have to buy more bees to start over, etc.. Hope all that rambling made sense.. And quit worrying about being embarrassed.. Think of Jen in her Jammies catching swarms! Think of standing in the house looking out the window, coffee in hand.. realizing your hive is SWARMING... You drop the coffee and go RUNNING out there... turn around and RUN back in the house to put clothes on..... Wear shorts while doing fall inspections with someone videoing you so we can all hear the girly scream....
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I'm planning on treating mine with Fumigillin B during their Sept. feedings. Mine had nosema last spring and I caught it before it wiped them out, so would like to avoid that this year if possible!
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Scott- "Hope all that rambling made sense.. And quit worrying about being embarrassed.. Think of Jen in her Jammies catching swarms! Think of standing in the house looking out the window, coffee in hand.. realizing your hive is SWARMING... You drop the coffee and go RUNNING out there... turn around and RUN back in the house to put clothes on..... Wear shorts while doing fall inspections with someone videoing you so we can all hear the girly scream....
HA! Ted wasn't around then when I was running around helter skelter in my jammies on March 26th with my first swarm ever! I will add that those jammies are my first 'go to' when I see a swarm! They helped me retrieve all but one swarm, the other absconded. God Bless My Jammies :D
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I'm planning on treating mine with Fumigillin B during their Sept. feedings. Mine had nosema last spring and I caught it before it wiped them out, so would like to avoid that this year if possible!
Welcome to the Forum Hamptor!! Glad to see you here. Sounds like you have the plan laid out!
Jen, I am sure god has blessed your Jammies. Anything that can make him smile gts blessed automatically. ;D
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On the seventh day God created Jen ~~~ Then he rested, he knew he was going to need it ;) 8)
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"I'm planning on treating mine with Fumigillin B during their Sept. feedings. Mine had nosema last spring and I caught it before it wiped them out, so would like to avoid that this year if possible!"
hamptor, first......WELCOME TO THE FORUM!!! :welcome:
when you get a chance, and would like to, introduce yourself in our welcome topic, tell us a little about you and your bees!
i will typically use the fumagillin in the fall in the north, if you see a problem in the spring, treat in spring as well as you did. from my experience, most of my colonies will succumb to nosema before i can get fumagillin on in the spring, not all, so why i treat in fall months.
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Welcome hamptor to the forum.
Ken
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Hi Everyone,
I'm getting ready to start feeding the fumagilin in heavy syrup. I've heard and read here that it should be mixed at 1 teaspoon per gallon. Looking at the instruction sheet that came with my fumagilin-B it says: 1/2 gallon of water and 8 pounds of sugar will make 1 gallon of heavy syrup, and that you should add 1/2 rounded tablespoon of fumagilin. Any thoughts? Ted
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When I use it, I use it as follows.
Mix up 1 gallon of sugar syrup per fall mix (2 parts sugar to 1 part water). Then I mix 1 teaspoon of fumadil (fumagilan) with a bit of warm water (1/4 cup), and once the syrup has cooled down some, I mix in the fumadil into it. If you try and mix the fumadil directly into the sugar syrup it will clump up and not get evenly distributed.
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i do a perry does :
"I mix 1 teaspoon of fumadil (fumagilan) with a bit of warm water (1/4 cup), and once the syrup has cooled down some, I mix in the fumadil into it. If you try and mix the fumadil directly into the sugar syrup it will clump up and not get evenly distributed."
i tend to give them the two gallons though if i can rather than one gallon:
At what rate do the honey bees eat 2:1 syrup on average~ Fumagilan dosage instructions (http://www.worldwidebeekeeping.com/forum/index.php/topic,2561.msg34619.html#msg34619)
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Well hmmm... I have always done 1 gallon of fumagillin for a standard production hive.. Going ot have to up the ante a little it seems, but... Some of the good hives over at the sunflower outyard havent ROOM for two gallons...
Anyhow... Mixing the fumagillin... I usually mix in 5 gallon quantities.. pour in 25 pounds of sugar.. sprinkle 5 mildly rounded teaspoons of fumagillin over the sugar.. Pour in HOT water.. doesnt have to be boiling but close... stir with my wine making stir whoobie that goes in my battery powered drill.. Bring the level up to 5 gallons and add a goodly double dollop of Apple CIder Vinegar WITH MOTHER and stir until clear.. Snap lid on and set in the garage till morning.. Then go FEED the bees!
I have NO IDEA what that WITH MOTHER thing is.. apparently something leftover from when the vinegar was fermenting, my mentor told me it was good for the bees use it, so I always have.. Apparently the vinegar is to raise the PH and keep the syrup from fermenting.. but I have to tell ya, the bees REALLY key in on the syrup that has the vinegar in it..