Worldwide Beekeeping

Beekeeping => General Beekeeping => Topic started by: Perry on September 08, 2014, 08:53:24 pm

Title: Storing honey
Post by: Perry on September 08, 2014, 08:53:24 pm
OK, the head honcho (Iddee) and I have been going back and forth on this, and I figure maybe open it up for the floor to have their say.
Right now my extracting set-up ends with 4 gallon pails filled with honey. I have a stainless steel 45 gallon honey tank (unheated) with a gate at the bottom.
I also have a 25 gallon water jacketed bottling tank that I jar out of. My bottling tank is full, my 45 gallon drum almost full, and most of my 4 gallon (15 -20) pails are full, and I am starting to wonder where I'll put the rest?
Do I just buy a series of 45 gallon drums? I have a line on a stainless steel 300 gallon tank, but once that's full you aren't going to move it any time soon.
All stored honey will granulate eventually, so the ability to heat it mildly at some point till it hits the bottling tank is essential.
Some of you are pretty smart (for beekeepers  :D) and maybe you have ideas on what would work for someone with around 65 hives and possible harvests of a couple ton.
Let the ideas flow.
Here is my set up:

Kelly's vibrating jiggle knife. (not hooked into system yet)
(https://worldwidebeekeeping.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fs30.postimg.cc%2Fk92ty3xnx%2FExtracting_line_004.jpg&hash=4d14ccc49a08cafe69562359ef4fa730d033fe8d) (http://postimg.cc/image/k92ty3xnx/)
Cappings go into the wax spinner and frames go into tray on right (holds 20).
(https://worldwidebeekeeping.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fs30.postimg.cc%2Fyv31du97x%2FExtracting_line_005.jpg&hash=60a57bdfa9d29376919e8e00817762f4d242e3bc) (http://postimg.cc/image/yv31du97x/)
When 20 frames done they are loaded into the extractor (on right of tank) and the next 20 frames are uncapped as it spins.
(https://worldwidebeekeeping.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fs23.postimg.cc%2F9d9qpyod3%2FExtracting_line_006.jpg&hash=c59ab964266bcdb31ec4de0cb3751f870acf1a8d) (http://postimg.cc/image/9d9qpyod3/)
Extractor dumps into sump. (not hooked into system yet).
(https://worldwidebeekeeping.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fs9.postimg.cc%2Fv83v9aba3%2FExtracting_line_007.jpg&hash=38607f9fdd710025fca26d3a44d1aa730c3c978c) (http://postimg.cc/image/v83v9aba3/)
From there through a strainer and into a stainless 45 gallon drum. Yes, those are 3 gallon ice cream pails full of fluffy dry cappings. :D
(https://worldwidebeekeeping.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fs8.postimg.cc%2F5phwrvsm9%2FExtracting_line_001.jpg&hash=239b3380ad7fff38d231a968b6d79123c7dc56e9) (http://postimg.cc/image/5phwrvsm9/)
From there into my bottling tank.
(https://worldwidebeekeeping.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fs14.postimg.cc%2Fwc9hkoqh9%2FExtracting_line_002.jpg&hash=31a19164e397f3a9fac79ba5de6106bd35b01799) (http://postimg.cc/image/wc9hkoqh9/)
From there into jars.

A possible addition. 300 gallon stainless steel tank ($300).
(https://worldwidebeekeeping.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fs29.postimg.cc%2F7xveg4agz%2F300_lb_tank.jpg&hash=b148b5d331496c6909f3d02394547a339b0ca2e3) (http://postimg.cc/image/7xveg4agz/)

PS - Have I mentioned I really need a Honey House?  :laugh: The one I haven't finished yet is too small.
Title: Re: Storing honey
Post by: iddee on September 08, 2014, 09:18:14 pm
55 gallon food grade drums is the only feasible answer. 15.00 each. 6 will hold 300 gallons, at a cost of 75.00, not 300. Can be easily moved with a forklift or forks on a farm tractor. Heater belts available for liquifying. Easily moved into a heated room to liquify en mass. Easily pumped into from the sump, then stored. Easily laid on a rack and drained into whatever you need to use. Gives the ability to keep varietal honeys separate.
Title: Re: Storing honey
Post by: Riverrat on September 08, 2014, 09:26:15 pm
I say a guy with an operation like that can store honey any way he wants.  Dad always said never tell a big guy what to do :D
Title: Re: Storing honey
Post by: rodmaker on September 08, 2014, 09:29:34 pm
  Im with Iddee 55 gallon drums food grade and drum heater when needed.
Title: Re: Storing honey
Post by: Yankee11 on September 08, 2014, 09:51:41 pm
If perry buys a fork lift, I quit.
Title: Re: Storing honey
Post by: iddee on September 08, 2014, 09:55:09 pm
As wasteful with money as he is, it'll probably be a 20.00 hand truck.  ;D   :D
Title: Re: Storing honey
Post by: Jen on September 08, 2014, 09:56:08 pm
Yankee- "If perry buys a fork lift, I quit.

       ... :D...
Title: Re: Storing honey
Post by: Jen on September 08, 2014, 09:58:37 pm
I say we call the Amish and have an old fashioned Bee Barn Raising  :D 
Title: Re: Storing honey
Post by: Retroguy on September 08, 2014, 10:45:22 pm
Wouldn't that be a bee barn raising bee?
Title: Re: Storing honey
Post by: pistolpete on September 08, 2014, 10:57:39 pm
I think you need to sell more bees.   Spend the winter making Nuc boxes and then split all hives to near destruction in the spring.  By the time they recover, you'll have hardly any honey at all :)
Nice problems to have at any rate.  How's that craft market thing going for you?  I would have thought a place like that would have you sold out of honey in no time.
Title: Re: Storing honey
Post by: Jen on September 08, 2014, 11:02:18 pm
Perry's bees best bee begging for a bee barn raising bee  :D
Title: Re: Storing honey
Post by: riverbee on September 09, 2014, 12:22:19 am
"55 gallon drums food grade and drum heater when needed."

perry, what rodmaker and iddee said. 

"All stored honey will granulate eventually, so the ability to heat it mildly at some point till it hits the bottling tank is essential."

i don't have the set up you do, the fancy equipment,  or number of hives but i use 5 gallon pails for honey storage.  and i have stored 15, 5 gallon pails. the honey crystallizes alright, but i keep these pails in the garage and allow them to freeze.  when i need the pail for honey, it's brought in and i use a pail heater on the bucket. then i bottle it as i need.
Title: Re: Storing honey
Post by: Jen on September 09, 2014, 12:39:57 am
And there ya go! I like the managability of 5 gallon buckets, you'll just need the storage.
Title: Re: Storing honey
Post by: riverbee on September 09, 2014, 01:34:11 am
5 gallon buckets stack pretty good in the garage or wherever.  manageability?  better than moving around a 55 gallon drum, but then i don't have perry's problem....  ;D

BUT, for some reason those 5 gallon pails are getting heavier.... :D
Title: Re: Storing honey
Post by: Jen on September 09, 2014, 01:46:35 am
Perry, what if you put the 55 gallon drum on wheels, like a flat bed wagon with a handle to navigate with?
Title: Re: Storing honey
Post by: iddee on September 09, 2014, 07:55:18 am
A 2X2 ft. piece of 3/4 in. plywood, or a bit larger, and 4 swivel castors will work fine on a 55 gallon drum, and have many other uses as well.
Title: Re: Storing honey
Post by: Perry on September 09, 2014, 08:02:53 am
http://www.kijiji.ca/v-business-industrial/bedford/45-gallon-barrel-kart/1016886639?enableSearchNavigationFlag=true
Title: Re: Storing honey
Post by: Bakersdozen on September 09, 2014, 08:08:40 am
A possible addition. 300 gallon stainless steel tank ($300).
(https://worldwidebeekeeping.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fs29.postimg.cc%2F7xveg4agz%2F300_lb_tank.jpg&hash=b148b5d331496c6909f3d02394547a339b0ca2e3) (http://postimg.cc/image/7xveg4agz/)

PS - Have I mentioned I really need a Honey House?  :laugh: The one I haven't finished yet is too small.


The first thoughts that came to my mind were about storage of that monster.  I believe you answered that question.
If I do the math correctly, that 300 gallon stainless steel tank will hold about 3600 pounds of honey.  Am I correct?  That would take care of your storage needs and any possible expansion for several years.  $300 doesn't seem unreasonable for a stainless tank.  The problem is storage and what if you should need to move it?
Title: Re: Storing honey
Post by: Perry on September 09, 2014, 08:42:07 am
Yup, 3600 lbs. That might be too heavy for the floors unless something special was done, so maybe 45 (55) gallon drums should be what I'm looking for?
Title: Re: Storing honey
Post by: Riverrat on September 09, 2014, 09:08:47 am
Yup, 3600 lbs. That might be too heavy for the floors unless something special was done, so maybe 45 (55) gallon drums should be what I'm looking for?

That should set on 4 inches of concrete without a problem.  I got 8 to 10,000lb machines setting on 6" without any problems
Title: Re: Storing honey
Post by: pistolpete on September 09, 2014, 11:23:57 pm
the issue with the large storage tank is: how do you get crystallised honey out of it.   You'd have to roll it into your hot tub for a couple of days.
Title: Re: Storing honey
Post by: Jen on September 09, 2014, 11:28:40 pm
Good point Pete! Never thought of that
Title: Re: Storing honey
Post by: Perry on September 10, 2014, 06:37:00 am
the issue with the large storage tank is: how do you get crystallised honey out of it.   You'd have to roll it into your hot tub for a couple of days.
That's one of the things holding me back. Old milk tanks used to have lines runnings through them to keep the milk cool, and by simply using heated water one could warm honey enough to keep it flowing, but this tank does not have that.
The 45 gallon (55 US) drums are sounding more and more like the way to go. Heated belts are over $200, but you only need one or two I suppose.
Title: Re: Storing honey
Post by: brooksbeefarm on September 10, 2014, 10:37:02 am
Hey Rat, 3600lbs + plus Perry's weight :o are you sure 6 in. of concrete would work ???. Jack ;D
Title: Re: Storing honey
Post by: iddee on September 10, 2014, 10:59:20 am
Hey Rat, 3 lbs + plus Perry's weight  :o  are you sure 6 in. of concrete would work   :D :D :D
Title: Re: Storing honey
Post by: Perry on September 10, 2014, 11:59:55 am
Hey Rat, 3600lbs + plus Perry's weight :o are you sure 6 in. of concrete would work ???. Jack ;D

Jack, Jack, Jack!  :P

(https://worldwidebeekeeping.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fs4.postimg.cc%2Ftgq7y1np5%2Ftally_marks.jpg&hash=b0a0976aa7eec4cbecbae5afc076242f4693dcb9) (http://postimg.cc/image/tgq7y1np5/)
Title: Re: Storing honey
Post by: apisbees on September 16, 2014, 07:30:36 pm
A warming cabinet that the drum can be wheeled into will work. but a drum full of honey 650 lb. rocked back onto 2 wheels of a barrel truck you need a solid floor to support the weight under the small surface area of the wheels. Another 3/4 on top of what you already have. and then there is you will need to configure a pump to pump the honey out of the drum or a tipping system to dump it in the sump and pump from it. the next thing to consider is the honey will have to be dealt with 600 + lbs at a time. With out a level loading dock or fork lift the barrels will need to stay in the honey house until emptied and wont be stack-able.
5 gal Can pails brings the storage weight down to 66 lbs each they can be stacked moved to other areas for storage can be liquefy as needed to fill the bottling tank and orders.
In a large honey house I would say barrels but in your limited space I would stick with pails for now. You got to learn to walk before you can run.
My two cents.
Title: Re: Storing honey
Post by: lazy shooter on September 17, 2014, 08:48:05 am
If you store honey in a barrel, and then take it out of the barrel, how do you clean the inside of the barrel before the next honey crop is stored in the barrel?  Do you have to clean it if you assume all honey is sterile?  Just another question to be ask.
Title: Re: Storing honey
Post by: apisbees on October 20, 2014, 02:57:14 pm
Because barrels will rust if the inside paint is scuffed a lot of beekeepers use plastic bag barrel liners. If the barrel is sealed to keep bees and dust from getting in, then washing is not necessary, but the remaining honey will granulate and the next honey stored in the barrel will granulate sooner.
Title: Re: Storing honey
Post by: Perry on October 20, 2014, 06:33:34 pm
There is one larger keep near here that stopped using those barrel liners because they had a few melt using the drum heaters!  :o
Title: Re: Storing honey
Post by: Alleyyooper on October 21, 2014, 08:24:51 am
One of my friend a way bigger operator than we are has two 500 gallon dairy bulk tanks. One he has in the heated part of his honey house and is plumed into a bottling tank. The other is in a non heated section but has a water jacket and he uses it to fill the 55 gallon drums his commercial buyers want.
I have a 250 gallon bulk tank with a water jacket and I left the paddles and motor hooked up. When heating the honey with the water jacket after a bit I turn on the motor for the paddles so it stirs the honey making it liquid faster.
Ours is still plumbed at 1 1/2 inch reducing down to 3.4 inch so we can fill bottles from it or flip a valve and do pails.

 :)   Al
Title: Re: Storing honey
Post by: Zweefer on October 22, 2014, 12:59:52 pm
Photos!
Title: Re: Storing honey
Post by: Alleyyooper on October 22, 2014, 01:33:26 pm
Still on the trailer. can't seem to find set up picture.

(https://worldwidebeekeeping.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fim1.shutterfly.com%2Fmedia%2F47b7d734b3127cd29eaede9be21d00000010O00CbtGjhq4bsQe3bj0%2FcC%2Ff%253D0%2Fls%253D00107858440720070915220700945.JPG%2Fps%253D50%2Fr%253D0%2Frx%253D550%2Fry%253D400%2F%3Ftn%3D-579799033&hash=d327ca1b3942e561573c0a06386afaaf17dd564e)

 :)  Al
Title: Re: Storing honey
Post by: Perry on October 22, 2014, 02:46:33 pm
Ahhh, there's something about shiny steel.  :yes: ;D :laugh:

(https://worldwidebeekeeping.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fs1.postimg.cc%2Fimeavas7v%2FSpinner_002.jpg&hash=4648d59a1a40c2c259b0edf7e69da66eca0b55d3) (http://postimg.cc/image/imeavas7v/)

(https://worldwidebeekeeping.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fs14.postimg.cc%2Ffw2jlli4t%2FUncapping_tank_002.jpg&hash=64f6e20bdf7862f127828bcb82451815b575a2a5) (http://postimg.cc/image/fw2jlli4t/)

(https://worldwidebeekeeping.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fs29.postimg.cc%2Fl67qmdawj%2FDadant_clarifier_002.jpg&hash=69d3174620d4dbb39cb27387fba5ab29566fe878) (http://postimg.cc/image/l67qmdawj/)

(https://worldwidebeekeeping.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fs28.postimg.cc%2Fh71uj2gdl%2FExtracting_line_002.jpg&hash=3873aab58bab99afec9260aabe0f19f3084e2b5e) (http://postimg.cc/image/h71uj2gdl/)

(https://worldwidebeekeeping.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fs9.postimg.cc%2F53629tyej%2FExtracting_line_004.jpg&hash=f98dc43566d1efe1f3b4547ad1ca43385f859856) (http://postimg.cc/image/53629tyej/)

(https://worldwidebeekeeping.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fs4.postimg.cc%2Fv198qxbcp%2FExtracting_line_006.jpg&hash=43daaca388cdb3101ba0c59301d4acd17dbd90dc) (http://postimg.cc/image/v198qxbcp/)
 
Title: Re: Storing honey
Post by: Marbees on October 22, 2014, 04:11:36 pm
Not having a dedicated building yet (honey house) I found that 5 gallon pails are, for the time being, the best solution for me.
Hope to have stainless drums by the time I build a honey house, so no liners and headaches associated with them.
Title: Re: Storing honey
Post by: Perry on October 22, 2014, 04:39:51 pm
Actually Marbees, having looked into the whole scenario, I have decided for the next while at least, to go with the standard 30 lb honey pail. Easy to move, easy to warm if granulated (heating cabinet), easy to store.
I have one 45 gallon stainless steel drum, and now that I have it filled, it is immovable. I am scrambling to empty it asap so that it doesn't set up on me. I have seen some fairly large beeks do the pail thing, I saw one fellow that had a room full, floor to ceiling, with 30 lb pails. I am at 65 hives, and if I ever have a dedicated "proper" honey house I may reconsider at that time but for now the pails are working out fine.
Title: Re: Storing honey
Post by: LazyBkpr on October 22, 2014, 08:36:57 pm
Pails are good, selling to bulk buyer in 55 gallon drums, everything else, stacked in 5 gallon buckets. I have a 20 gallon and a 55 gallon settling tank. I dont try to move either of those.. But a 55 gal barrel of honey must be moved with a hand truck designed for that purpose..   Roll it to the back door, slide in tractor bucket to lift....

   Maybe we should figure on a road trip next summer for the barn raising!
Title: Re: Storing honey
Post by: apisbees on October 23, 2014, 06:24:40 pm
Be cautious on the storage of the plastic pails. Keep them out of the direct sun light as most of the white food grade pails do not have UV filter chemicals in the plastic so the plastic will break down, become brittle, and can crack or break. It kind of implodes and 30 lbs of honey oozing across the floor and under things is not a good time.
Title: Re: Storing honey
Post by: riverbee on October 24, 2014, 12:46:02 am
i have never kept or stored my pails in direct sunlight.
i have never had a problem with plastic food grade 5 gallon pails/buckets for honey storage  (purchased from my supplier) but  i do keep them away from and out of sunlight.  i have kept them in an exterior storage  area (garage)  year round, and during extreme high (summer) and low (winter sub-zero) temps for extended periods  and have never experienced a problem with these pails or lids becoming brittle or cracking.

i have had buckets of honey on my kitchen floor due to other reasons...... :D
Title: Re: Storing honey
Post by: brooksbeefarm on October 24, 2014, 11:00:30 am
Perry and i are thinking you had the honey buckets on the floor so you could reach and get honey from them, Squirt. :laugh: :laugh: Jack
Title: Re: Storing honey
Post by: LazyBkpr on October 24, 2014, 03:46:59 pm
Perry and i are thinking you had the honey buckets on the floor so you could reach and get honey from them, Squirt. :laugh: :laugh: Jack

   I worry about her slipping and falling IN one of those buckets head first...      :sad:   Dont they have warnings on them nowdays?
Title: Re: Storing honey
Post by: Perry on October 24, 2014, 03:56:21 pm
You guys know there is going to be trouble now, don't you? ;D
Title: Re: Storing honey
Post by: Jen on October 24, 2014, 04:15:48 pm
Scott- "I worry about her slipping and falling IN one of those buckets head first...         Dont they have warnings on them nowdays?

   Ooooooo, Ooooo Yea Riv! I'de be lacing the boxing gloves, insert mouth piece right about now  ;)  :D
Title: Re: Storing honey
Post by: LazyBkpr on October 24, 2014, 08:44:31 pm
heheh..  It would be an honor to be beat up by Mrs River, and besides, it would amuse the whole town!
Title: Re: Storing honey
Post by: riverbee on October 24, 2014, 09:31:36 pm
LOL!!!! .....some very funny comments here........... :D

naw i didn't fall in head first, but if all of you can claim you have never had to clean up honey off the floor from a mishap, i say you are fibbing!

an unattended grandchild wandering in the house to the kitchen. curiosity led to opening a honey gate on a filtered bucket of honey............

i won't mention who, but SOMEONE tipped over a full 5 gallon bucket of honey sitting up on a squirt step stool  ready to be strained on the kitchen floor.....

.............. :D

jack.....you first.......give it up!........ ;D
Title: Re: Storing honey
Post by: iddee on October 24, 2014, 09:36:39 pm
Nope, never have.
.
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.

.
.
.

.
.
.
.
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My wife won't let me use the kitchen for honey.            :'(
Title: Re: Storing honey
Post by: Perry on October 24, 2014, 10:07:55 pm
Never dumped honey on the kitchen floor. A pot of melted beeswax however, is a different story. :-[
Title: Re: Storing honey
Post by: LazyBkpr on October 24, 2014, 10:10:48 pm
Oh.. my god.. Perry..   That statement stood my hair on end.. Imagining trying to get WAX off of...   EVERYTHING... before my wife got home..    PANIC MODE ENGAGED!
Title: Re: Storing honey
Post by: Jen on October 24, 2014, 10:47:27 pm
Good Gravy! I don't know which one would be worse, honey or wax.... let'see, at least the wax would harden a bit, that would be helpful....  I cannot imagine!
Title: Re: Storing honey
Post by: riverbee on October 24, 2014, 11:04:06 pm
never spilled wax, okay, maybe dribbled....that would be an adventure........but so is a 5 gallon pail of honey on the kitchen floor......... :D
not sure which is worse?!.......?
i am thinking honey would be an easier clean up versus wax and where you are sleeping for the night?!.......... :D

and besides it's MY kitchen......... :D 
Title: Re: Storing honey
Post by: Slowmodem on October 25, 2014, 03:58:43 am
Oh.. my god.. Perry..   That statement stood my hair on end.. Imagining trying to get WAX off of...   EVERYTHING... before my wife got home..    PANIC MODE ENGAGED!

Wait a minute!  I thought people put wax ON the floor.  Besides soldering, the main thing I learned how to do in the Army was to run a buffer!