Worldwide Beekeeping
Beekeeping => Beekeeping 101 => Topic started by: ledifni on September 29, 2014, 10:03:12 pm
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So...this evening I went out to my hive and the first thing I noticed was two bees rolling around fighting in front of the hive. There was a (small) crowd of bees around the entrance, and numerous bees flying back and forth facing the entrance, and others crawling up the face of the hive and taking off directly to the south in a straight line. I saw a few dead bees in the grass and other bees crawling around under the hive. My diagnosis: robbing. If anyone disputes this diagnosis, please let me know because I'd very much like to be wrong here.
Anyway, I've seen in a number of places that throwing a wet sheet over the hive is a good way to quickly stop robbing, the idea being that after not being able to get in for a few hours, the robbers will just give up. I immediately did that and left it that way. I'm planning to leave it that way all night.
My questions are, then:
1) Is there anything else I can do and/or should I not do the wet sheet thing for any reason?
2) What can I do to prevent similar episodes in the future? The entrance reducer is in place with only the smallest slot open. My feeders are in the top, closed up, on the inner cover. What else can I do to discourage robbing? Note: I had an entrance feeder in place until yesterday, so it's quite possible the robbing started before then and I just didn't notice it.
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First, the sheet was a good idea.
Second, get a robber screen on the hive.
http://www.worldwidebeekeeping.com/forum/index.php/topic,1420.msg19070.html#msg19070
If you are feeding HBH or other smelly additive, remove it. Quit feeding anything until the robbing stops, then plain sugar water only.
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Ok thanks, I'll do all that. I'm not putting any additives in the sugar water, but I'll hold off feeding for a few days while I assess the situation.
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Hi led :) my first thought is a robbing screen. There are plans on this forum on how to make your own, probably others will show pics of home made robbing screens. This is the one that I use and that is because they are affordable and so easy to take on and off of the hive.
I posted this same scenario a couple of weeks ago and was told the wet sheet idea, and to turn on a sprinkler on the hive as well.
http://www.countryrubes.com/instructions/robbingscreens.html
(https://worldwidebeekeeping.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fs29.postimg.cc%2Fixpz58blf%2FDSCF0720.jpg&hash=0d6975cd3acc2b02096c483d7a9cc4d091a7f394) (http://postimg.cc/image/ixpz58blf/)
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what iddee said ledifni......... ;)
robber screen, and every hive gets one....
it probably started and you didn't notice it as you said, with the set up you had going with feed before you enclosed it, from boardman to the top of the inner cover and unprotected. the screens will help a great deal. in the future? reduce entrances, keep the screens handy. no open feeding, and in my HO get rid of the boardman feeding, keep the feed enclosed.
ps. boardmans only for water
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I love my boardmans in March, April, and May. They stay in the shed the rest of the year.
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I don't have any easy way to cut those pieces of wood between tonight and tomorrow, so I'm stapling this simple contraption over the hive entrance in the morning:
(https://worldwidebeekeeping.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fs29.postimg.cc%2Fyrzem5pkj%2Fbee_guard.jpg&hash=82e606fa7c6853ace8d2860b9179acc81e75199c) (http://postimg.cc/image/yrzem5pkj/)
That should give me time to construct a proper robber guard. What do you guys think? Will that work? I don't want to trap my own bees out of the hive, but it should keep the robbers out, I think.
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put it on tonight. No light nearby, use the moon or a flashlight way back from the hive, and do be sure you are suited and either booted or jeans duct taped to your shoes, there will be creepers and they will all come out at the sound of the staple gun
Tomorrow morning the bees will go out and discover how to get in and out.
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Hmm...ok...I'll try it...but if I get stings all over my legs I'm blaming you :)
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Changed my mind...it's just too dark tonight. Wouldn't even be able to see well enough to tack it on. I'll do it at the crack of dawn tomorrow -- I can stuff the entrance with a little dry grass to temporarily block it until I can get the screen on. As I understand it, they'll chew through a blockade like that pretty quickly, so I won't have to clear it back out.
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Just don't stop the air flow. They can cook and all be dead in 30 minutes if they can't circulate the air.
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Texas heat, Texas drought and Texas robbing are reasons 1, 2 and 3 to use Screened bottom boards. He has one. His sticky is in, but they tend to allow a little bit of venting (I hope)
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Update.
With the screen I tacked on, and all feeders hidden under the top cover (I haven't actually refilled them since I noticed the robbing), it looks to me like the robbing is down to a manageable level. I still see bees coming in looking like robbers, but not very many, and more of the approaching bees are carrying pollen (which means, if I'm not mistaken, that they're hive bees).
Last night when I got home just before dark, there was a large mass of several hundred bees moving around at the front of the hive, which worried me a little, but they were relatively calm and when it got dark they all just bedded down there, so again -- I think just hive bees keeping watch.
So my question now is this: This Saturday I was going to do a complete hive inspection, and possibly rearrange the frames a bit since there were only two brood frames in between honey frames last I checked (I want to give that queen room to lay in). But, given the robbing situation, I'm not sure if opening the hive might encourage more robbing. On the other hand, I wonder if an inspection might not be really important right now, just to make sure they're still in decent shape after all that robbing. Any thoughts?
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I would do a semi-quick inspection just about sundown. If robbing starts, it will be easier to stop, as they all go home before it gets dark.
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You are on the right track with advice given above. I would just add the obvious and caution you not to spill any sugar water when refilling the feeder, that will draw robbers in the right conditions.
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Remind me again Led... one or two deeps to your hive?
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Just one - I have another I could put on but I doubt I'll need it this winter. If I can get them to fill one deep then it's just that and fondant for winter.
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Well then my answer is like Iddee's, I would be doing quick checks on it just for the learning process. I think new beeks should do that :)
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Well, it's hardly a matter of "should" -- I have to restrain myself from opening it up once every ten minutes just to see how the girls are doing :) Ok, this Saturday I'll proceed as planned, but closer to nightfall. I'll be watching it closely from the outside in the meantime so I should have a pretty good idea of how the hive is doing by then.
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May I ask why closer to nightfall?
Curious, because so many say that that is the time of day when they will be the most fiesty. But I haven't found that to be all together true with my hives.
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Closer to nightfall when robbing is expected. Robbers go home at night. Less time for them to do their damage.
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I would do the inspection near evening as Iddee suggested. Start about 5:30 pm maybe, as long as it isn't cloudy, and be sure your smoker is well loaded and not with hot stuff (what are you using for smoker fuel?)
I MIGHT have to come into town to pick up a grandchild saturday evening, so if you want me to look with you let me know in advance. No guarantee on availability, I'm bouncing around my daughter's schedule.
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To be honest, though most beekeeping sites say never disturb the bees at night, I have yet to be stung at night around my hives. In fact, even if I go out there without any gear and just scope out the hive by red light, I'm all right as long as I keep an eye out for crawling bees and avoid them. Just did that in fact...no problems at all. I can understand why you wouldn't want to open the hive up and do an inspection at night, but for most simple things it seems all right.
That said, when I went out there just now I removed the cover on the bottom board because they've been bearding a whole lot. When I did, it was covered in hive beetles and clumpy stuff that looked like cottony dust -- not sure what that stuff was. In any case, I'm really worried about the health of my hive. I think I might just go ahead and open it tomorrow and check things out...and then decide what to do. I'm going to add some beetle sheets for sure. Other than that? I'm just hoping and praying I don't lose this hive :(
On the plus side, it has a lot of bees and I'm pretty sure still a healthy laying queen. Plus, most of the frames from the original nuc are (or were, at least, last Saturday) full of honey. That just might be enough to give them strength. We'll see. Any advice would be great to hear, especially advice on things to look for when I open the hive tomorrow evening.
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Yes Gypsi, if you have time Saturday and you want to look over the hive with me, that would be wonderful. Don't skimp on your time with your grandchild though :) Family is important.
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"when I went out there just now I removed the cover on the bottom board because they've been bearding a whole lot. When I did, it was covered in hive beetles and clumpy stuff that looked like cottony dust -- not sure what that stuff was."
hmmm, this doesn't sound good ledifni......covered in hive beetles and clumpy white stuff? you need to take a closer look at this hive.....
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if you already have a beetle sheet in there and the bees don't like it they will chew at it and pitch it, and the hive beetles on the front porch. One of my hives cut a neat circle out of a beetle sheet and dropped it on the sbb to confuse me.
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gypsi, not having had to deal with shb.......the clumpy white stuff that ledifni is describing could this be from a beetle sheet being chewed on, if he's using one?
i have no idea! thankfully we don't have to deal with shb up here.
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Oh, just noticed your other question Gypsi. For smoker fuel I'm using the stuff in the 5-lb bag they sell at brushymountainbeefarm.com. It's supposed to be pure compressed cotton fibers, and it works pretty well. I've felt the smoke coming out of the smoker, and it just feels like air -- not hot at all.
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the beetlesheets work because the bees chew on them creating tangly fibers that trap the beetles, but yes, chewed up fibers would look cottony dusty (although I think the sheets are polyester)
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thanks gypsi.....i have no experience with shb or beetle sheets, so perhaps what ledifni is finding.
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Hey Led, if you take pics of the inside of your hive, it really helps us help identify what may be worrying you ~
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for ledifni and others:
good info on robbing/robbing behavior here:
Robber Bees ~ Robbing Behavior (http://www.worldwidebeekeeping.com/forum/index.php/topic,2137.msg28656.html#msg28656)
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Ah ok. I realized what the fluffy cottony stuff is. When I installed my robber screen I pushed bits of newspaper into the entrance to block it off so the bees wouldn't try to crawl out while I was stapling up their entrance. After I put in the screen I pushed the newspaper in so they could chew it up and get rid of it, and promptly forgot about it...and of course they chewed it up and dropped it through the screen, just like they were supposed to :)
The hive beetles, I think, are getting a foothold because the bees are so busy fighting off robbers. I'm going to open the hive this evening, inspect, put in beetle sheets, and take pics, and I'll post them here if I see anything that concerns me. Thank you all for listening to all my dumb questions :)
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If the hive is in any shade during the day, move it. Get it into full sunlight. SHB love shade.
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No such thing as a dumb question Led! there is sooo much to learn with honey bees nowa days I've had to ask some questions over and over and I never got yelled at that I know of :D
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"Ah ok. I realized what the fluffy cottony stuff is. When I installed my robber screen I pushed bits of newspaper into the entrance to block it off so the bees wouldn't try to crawl out while I was stapling up their entrance. After I put in the screen I pushed the newspaper in so they could chew it up and get rid of it, and promptly forgot about it...and of course they chewed it up and dropped it through the screen, just like they were supposed to :)"
......... :D
ps ledifni, there are no dumb questions......just questions on a great learning adventure when it comes to bees..... ;)
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Yep and they're amazing little creatures aren't they? I'm incredibly excited about it, even with the work and the worrying and all that :)
By the way my girls survived a ridiculously bad storm today. 70+ MPH winds. But I have a brick on top of the super and a very heavy roof, and they're just fine :)
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Just an update for you all -- the robbers seem to have given up finally :) I haven't seen any around the hive for about a week. The robber screen helped, but I think there must be a nectar flow on (I hope there is), because all I see are my bees coming in and out. Thanks for all the help and advice!
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Sure thing Led. My robbers are back in about 1/2 hour. I was having a most pleasant early afternoon two days ago in my hives, bees as pleasant as can be. Then the robbers came and I felt like I was in the middle of an army. Creepy. So my screens are staying on until all are in a cluster! ;)
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Hoping you never see a last wave of robbers like I had in 2011. at least 25,000 bees, a swarm 6 ft wide and 8 ft long came in to attack my small hive. I threw the sheet back over it, had a robber screen on it, and a sprinkler in position near the front that I only had to turn on to "make it rain", but they pried past the robber screen in 3 spots and I lost the hive. My only hive. It was very sad. My crew was out here building the greenhouse when it happened, I walked through a cloud of bees carrying the sheet and they followed me. None of us were stung. One of the most amazing things I have ever seen.
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Wow Gypsi! that sounds like the makings of a saturday fright night movie! Now, I have stood in the middle of plenty of swarms, but none of them targeted a hive like that. I think you and I have some crazy arse bees! Mine never follow protocol :D
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Well Gypsi, as to that I did see a few around the hive from time to time today. But my girls are all kinds of efficient about it. The field bees just fly in and run straight into the hive, and there's a little squad of guard bees on top of the robber guard that vet each of them. When a robber shows up and starts crawling around on the screen trying to get in, they jump her. It ain't pretty. But I'm proud of them :)
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We both have droughts Jen, that's the deal.
Sounds good Ledifini. I hope to get to check on my bees in daylight tomorrow. Been busy