Worldwide Beekeeping
Beekeeping => General Beekeeping => Topic started by: jayj200 on January 04, 2015, 06:09:37 pm
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When do you consider a hive too HOT and should be destroyed?
I just whent to a friends hive thank goodnes I was suited up.
from the outside they seamed normal. weather was fine and still is 4 hours later.
every frame I moved relaesed a new wave of bees
yes I smoked the entrance yes I smoked them with pine needels.
then I smoked myself the torent would subside a little. smoke the box move the frame gently and fifty bees would come batting my vail many times.
Like I said I was fully suited no stings. yea!
we are down in AHB teritory Fl has said all feral hives are AHB.
So guy got this lady my friend some bees, these ones he got the call because they were mean.
did that cutout and put them in her box. was that ethical?
later her tree trimers were attacked and chased out of the yard. they did not like the chainsaw.
later I went and you know the story above.
I told her the are too HOT and should be destroyed.yes or no?
replaced with a package of bees. yes or no?
How is the best way to destroy them? lets not use pesticides inside the box
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Would you want to maybe try to requeen first?
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AHB's would you keep them?
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If they are already in a box (and they were mine) I would requeen with a queen from different stock and then wait (as tbonekel suggested).
If they are someone else's I would advise the same or have them destroyed.
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If I could find a mated queen in Jan., I would requeen. If you want to destroy them, go to drugstore and get powdered sulfur. Get your smoker going good and put a tablespoon of sulfur on top the coals. Smoke the hive liberally. All bees will be dead within minutes. The sulfur will dissipate within a couple hours. You can eat the honey, feed it to the next package, whatever you want. There will be NO unwanted residue.
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I've never been around AHB, but i've read that they are hard to requeen with other breeds of bees, also if your hive supersedes and mates with a AHB drone, the AHB genetics are stronger and you will have a hot hive. If your wanting to kill them, a garden sprayer mixed with water and dish soap sprayed on them will do the trick. I had hot hives like that years ago and waited till after dark and set them afire. >:( Those kind take the fun out of beekeeping and makes everyone around them miserable. :-\ Jack
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If I could find a mated queen in Jan., I would requeen. If you want to destroy them, go to drugstore and get powdered sulfur. Get your smoker going good and put a tablespoon of sulfur on top the coals. Smoke the hive liberally. All bees will be dead within minutes. The sulfur will dissipate within a couple hours. You can eat the honey, feed it to the next package, whatever you want. There will be NO unwanted residue.
Going to file that one in my noggin! Thanks.
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I don’t think it was necessarily “un-ethical” to give your lady friend bees from a cut out. The guy who did the cutout may have thought the bees were upset from the disruption and could calm down later.
I don’t like warm bees, let alone hot bees. I would move them out to the swamp someplace (if you want to re-queen) or I would dispatch the bees to bee heaven.
Now I’m wondering how sulfur in a smoker kills bees? I’m not questioning that it does; just how does it work? If you heat sulfur in air, you’re probably going to get oxides of sulfur (acid rain). Does that kill things? H2S is pretty lethal stuff, but I’m not sure that would be generated in a smoker; you need hydrogen from someplace.
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Years ago northern beeks would kill off all bees in the fall, harvest the honey, then order new bees in the spring. Sulfur in the smoker was the most used method.
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Wow, I've learned something new already and I'm only on post #2 8)
What happens if the bee keeper gets a whiff of the sulfur though ;D
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I've dumped a cup of gas in a hive, but that was one with AFB and was gonna burn anyways. What a mess. :sad:
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:thread: Liking this thread a lot! It's only a matter of time till AHB move their way to the west coast.
I do like the idea of re-queening first, wait a couple of weeks or more, and go back in.
There is a queen rearing company here in California that tauts having queens all year long. if you want me to get the name, give a hollar
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In small amounts, no problem for humans. Large amounts can be dangerous.
From wikipedia....
When sulfur burns in air, it produces sulfur dioxide. In water, this gas produces sulfurous acid and sulfites, which are antioxidants that inhibit growth of aerobic bacteria and allow its use as a food additive in small amounts. However, at high concentrations these acids harm the lungs, eyes or other tissues. In organisms without lungs such as insects or plants, it otherwise prevents respiration in high concentrations.
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Years ago northern beeks would kill off all bees in the fall, harvest the honey, then order new bees in the spring. Sulfur in the smoker was the most used method.
Did the price back then go up over the winter as much as it has this winter? The prices they're charging now are outrageous!
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I have requeened an african hive. It was in 2 boxes. when I ordered the queen I put a queen excluder between the boxes so I would have less trouble. I suited up, duct taped any vulnerable points, got that smoker going and wish I'd had a vial of alcohol to put her ladyship in after the hive tool test. a couple of days later my queen came in, I missed the queen cup between layers of honey and I found my marked California queen beat up on the front porch about a week after I had confirmed she was laying.
Requeening africans the hardest thing is making sure they don't kill the new queen. The best way is not to kill the Ahb queen til your new one comes in and when you kill her just smear her over the front of the new queen cage.
Which is where my biggest hive came from this spring. Originally they were Beeweaver bees but a couple of generations of self requeening they had gotten just a bit too testy. Squish smear and switch in late April during a flow, no problem.
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@gypsi:
"The best way is not to kill the Ahb queen tip your new one comes in and when you kill her just smear her over the front of the new queen cage."
I have never heard of the above, but is sure sounds like a good tip. Thanks
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Al says sread them in the sho[ vac?
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jj, another member, cracker, used a garden hose and a bucket of soapy water on an ahb hive. like jack said, " a garden sprayer mixed with water and dish soap sprayed on them will do the trick." also, never tried this, but some beeks have used dry ice set on top the inner cover with a box over top and closed up. sulphur, i went digging around for some of tecumseh's post's on how this is used:
"just a pinch of sulfur incorporated into a 'hand rolled' cigarette which you can then place in a bit of copper pipe and then light and insert this into the front entry after lighting. you pretty much plug up everything else and hopefully trapping all adults inside. When I have done this I typically go in right at sunset when everyone is at home and by sunrise the dirty deed is done."
"make up a hand rolled cigarette, lace the tobacco with a bit of sulfur. I like to insert the 'cigarette' in a loose fitting metal sleeve or copper tube. stick one end of the tube in the hive entrace and plug the cracks. light the cigarette. the fumes are hydrogen sulfide, so don't be taken no puffs . very quick, very cheap and very effective."
"the product that kills the bees is called hydrogen sulfide, and you definitely will get lousy results and a headache if you attempt to put it in a smoker. it is the same by product of natural (food) decomposition that on occasions kills a navy man since it is heavier than air and accumulates at the bottom of the compartments where the food stuffs are stored. since It is heavier than air and disperses easy. the hive will need to be sealed fairly tightly. it can be 'applied' either at the top or bottom of the hive. the last time I applied hydrogen sulfide I did it via a hand rolled cigarette with a bit of sulfur added to the tobacco. if the hive is tightly sealed the results should be 100% after about a 30 minute wait."
if it were cold enough in florida, (which it probably isn't), take the lid off.
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Extreme heat or extreme cold will kill anything. I’m going to assume extreme cold is not an option in south Florida, but it might be possible to create an extreme heat condition and kill them off. We know package bees will croak if they get too hot. The same should occur in a hive if it gets too warm. I would bet wrapping the hive in a heavy duty black garbage bag on a sunny Florida day would do it; without resorting to chemicals. Are you up for an experiment ;D
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Hot bees show their tempers best when they are in a populous hive. Weak hives of hot bees are usually relatively normal in their behavior. With this in mind, I would suggest splitting the hive into small parts [Divide and conquer]. Remove the guilty hive so the bees won't have a place to go back to, and use them (after eliminating the queen) to strengthen other hives. The newspaper method is easiest for this project. Once united in small numbers into other hives they should function normally. As they work out their remaining lives in new hives, they will gradually be replaced.
This suggestion, at this time of year can be used in Florida, but obviously, it is not a practical option up north. However, in summertime it should be just as practical in the north.
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whatever you do jj........please let us know how you dealt with it..... ;)
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EFmesch suggestion to split, with 2 new queens, smear the old gal on both queen cages, and just plan on a 4 hour bee day, but that would get you 2 strong healthy hives and the aggression drops immediately when less crowded
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Saw a hive killed with a set of Oxy Acetylene torches..... BOOOM
Dont know why that one didnt kill one of us... Never go to help a mad Redneck with hot bees, wait for the boom then go over to his house.....
I like the sulfer, I have seen it done a few times, but have never had the SULFER to use if needed.. I'll have to see if I can find some. It sure would be handy next time I run across some of those MEAN black bees.
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you need to come to texas and meet some ahb Lazybkpr
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Scott- "Never go to help a mad Redneck with hot bees, wait for the boom then go over to his house.....
LOL :D
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If you want to destroy them, go to drugstore and get powdered sulfur. Get your smoker going good and put a tablespoon of sulfur on top the coals. Smoke the hive liberally. All bees will be dead within minutes. The sulfur will dissipate within a couple hours. You can eat the honey, feed it to the next package, whatever you want. There will be NO unwanted residue.
I just read in Larry Connor's Increase Essentials that sulfur has been used to kill bees since Medieval times. Pre-Langstroth logic. iddees suggestion would be considered "Tried and True".
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Medieval Times :o i knew he was old? hmmm, so that's why he eats all that funny food. :laugh: :laugh: Jack
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I think Jack you may have bit off more than you can chew this time.
Ken
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Naw, at his age he's already forgot. :D Perry
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Lazybkpr, you should be able to find powdered sulfer at a pharmacy. That's the last place I picked up some. When I was a kid living in Florida, we put that in our socks when hiking and camping in the scouts to keep the chiggers off of us.
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I get it at the feed store but I use it for chiggers and to keep ticks off my land, not bees.
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you need to come to texas and meet some ahb Lazybkpr
I have met some mean bees, and they are as close to AHB as I care to get. I watch the vids of folks going into Dee's hives, and I have to stop watching.. I get angry just seeing the vid.. there would be a LOT of burning hives if they were mine.. if/when the AHB ever manages to get into COLD climates, I will be done beekeeping shortly thereafter. I talk about how mean my wife is, but honestly, I dont put up with ANYTHING that is mean, dog, bees, or wife. One of these days I am going to have to "sulfer" myself!!
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Texas beekeepers are the first line of defense for our communities in preventing deaths due to AHB.
While the AHB are diluting the DNA in our hives, we are diluting theirs. By the time they get to you they will be no worse than germans probably
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Gypsi, that's not encouraging ??? Have you ever been around or had dealings with the German Black bees? Jack
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Possibly, there was a hot feral hive of black bees but compared to Africans they were mild, just chased us off, no stings. (owner wasn't paying for removal so I left them)
but how many people, horses, chickens and cattle have German Black Bees killed? A hive of AHB in Pantego Texas put the man in the hospital with 500 stings woman about 300, killed 2 miniature horses.
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Back in the German Black bees hey day the news med. wasn't that great (mostly Radio, no tv) so there wouldn't no way to compare. I understand you have to make a noise (lawnmower, ect) or bother the hive of the AHB to rile them up >:(. The German Black hives we finally burned would attack you for walking within 100ft. of there hive, and working a hive of them most of the time was a nightmare :o, they would cover your veil and upper clothing. There were times i worked them during a flow that they act more normal, but not what we call normal these days, and that's why we kept them around. Then farmers started talking in the feed stores and telling about the gentle bees they bought or a neighbor had (the Italian breed) and started changing. I'm not saying the German Black was worse than AHB but i'll put them a close second. Jack
PS. wonder what we would of had if the two of them would have crossed. :o
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I do not want to know what would have happened of African Honey Bees and German Black Bees had crossed. Full Africans you still usually get attacked if you disturb the hive, the couple in Pantego opened their shed door. The groundskeepers in Aledo picked up a box behind a shed that happened to have a hive in it. These people were not in suits.
The pantego couple had a bad time but that was 2 years ago, after 45 years of dilution the african bees are not quite as bad as they were, for which I am very very grateful. I can requeen a hot hive, usually after about 2 years I have to, which means I can open the hive, and my bee suit isn't fancy and armored., and usually if I pick up a sting it is only 1 or 2 usually in glove if the duct tape slips or where suit is tight, through suit.
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Efmesch is dead on with his recommendation. Break them down into as many nucs as you can and requeen them. I think Florida Queen Bees & Honey may sell queens year round. They're down there fairly close to you, I think.
Jay, I think the state is full of crap about all feral hives being Africanized in Florida. That has not been my experience. Nor my state bee inspector's. He was raised in a beekeeping family and has been inspecting bees for years and he said he has never come across a hive that was confirmed Africanized.
The best hives I have are from feral hives and swarms that I've caught. I much prefer them to store-bought queens.