Worldwide Beekeeping
Beekeeping => General Beekeeping => Topic started by: brooksbeefarm on January 25, 2015, 06:24:08 pm
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Well it's not good news, i've been holding off posting that so far i've lost 17 hives out of 75 :o, but i'm thinking if i end up with between 50 to 55 live hives i'll be lucky. I found most were robbed out, 3 were trying to supersede, and 4 of them looked like a moisture problem. There was one that has me stumped?there was 4 frames with small patches of brood that the cappings had a sunken look to them with a small hole in them, like a pin point? When i peeled the cappings back there wasn't nothing in them, they were totaly dry no sign of a bee or larva?Have any of you seen this? Jack
PS. It could have been worse, i've been treatment free going on 4 years now. :sad:
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Sorry to hear that Jack!
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If you look "CLOSE" can you see an egg in the bottom? Strange that it would be capped if the egg had died or been chilled though.. Is there a "scale" on the bottom of the cell?
I am at 4 for 40 right now, but the weather is supposed to change. Calling for 16 degrees next Sunday. Will be cold for a bit. Need to go through the hives and check the sugar!
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I looked close inside the cells and nothing there, i guess what ever was there could have dried up? Most of the robbed out hives were one deep 10 frame nucs that i had started last fall, but was doing real good, it must have turned cold during the robbing and other problems because i must have over 600 lbs of honey off of them that i salvaged. :yes: What i don't feed hives that come up short i'll use for spring nucs. Jack
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I'm down 2 out of 65 (so far). Found another that I thought was dead, but when I popped the inner cover there was a softball group of bees near the upper entrance, so I don't hold out much hope for that one either.
Lots of honey left in the 2 dead outs, just not many bees. I found one tiny queen, so I'm guessing late supercedure and not enough time to ramp up with winter bees. I don't re-queen so there is no doubt I have some that are getting on in years. I just let the bees decide when to replace them.
Out of 5 nucs 4 are doing well, one is getting weak.
Loooooong way to go yet. Tuesday supposed to get over a foot of snow on Tuesday.
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All six hives are doing well. I wish it would warm up a little. Every night lows drop down to 5 to 10 degrees With a 2ft snow pack. Day time temp in the mid 20 with light wind.
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hmm, Wait, Do I have to count the ones I was experimenting on? :'(
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I murdered half my hives, so 50% here.
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Of course, I went into winter with only two. ;D
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DANG Iddee, dont kill that one off! I want to steel some eggs!
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Have only lost 1 out of 32 so far. It has been a good winter so far still 6 weeks till spring
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Iddee, are you like a long gone neighbor of mine? I was at the feed store when Burl came running in and said, i need some antibiotics for my cows quick, the clerk ask what for, Burl said i've lost half my herd, the clerk said, that's awful Burl how many did you loose? Burl replied, One. :D Jack
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Yep, that's it. I always sell down in the fall, then build up in the spring. Tried feeding corn solids on top the frames. Didn't work. Killed the whole cluster. No problem, swarms and removals will start coming in mid-march. Should have 20 or more before June.
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I don't get that many swarm calls anymore, i let the new beekeepers have them. I'm planning on putting out several swarm traps out around my outyards, to catch some of my own swarms and maybe some feral hive swarms in those wooded areas. I also have some hives that haven't had any treatments or been requeened for 10 to 15 years, i have made nucs from these hives by taking frames with eggs and bees to raise queens from them and have taken queen cells from them when i've caught them in swarm modes and made nucs. I rarely see shb's or much of a mite problem if any from these hives. Don't know if the shb or mites just haven't found them or they know how to keep them under control? It's been many years since i've had hives like these, i'm keeping my fingers crossed. Jack
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I've lost one out of 45 or so,
So Iddee, that stuff you were trying out didn't work so well?
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This will probably jinx me but so far have lost none due to the winter weather. Still have 7 out of 7.
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i've lost 2 just before winter hit. but i expected them not to survive anyway as they were failing in the first place. but i still have 6 going strong.
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I'm running about 15% losses so far this winter, but we have a blizzard coming tomorrow, might kill a few more. I hate the wind and the cold combined. Takes it's toll on the hives.
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7 out of twenty so far, never got around to culling the weak ones, so I'm not breaking out the crying towel yet.
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still have my one and only at the moment. just praying all goes well and i don't screw things up!
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I might have one lost out of 15. much better so far in comparison to last winter when I lost 7 out of 11.
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Did an QA trickle a couple of weeks ago. All 9 still alive.
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Okay, Okay!.... I'm not going to say cause I don't want to jinx it :D
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Found two more deadouts yesterday?? They had plenty of stores, no idea what caused it, one had a big cluster of dead bees piled on the bottom board the other had a small amount of dead bees on the bottom board,(20 to 30) and 2 to 5 on three frames dead like they were just resting? none with heads in the cells or signs of moisture?? Very strange, that makes 19 out of 75 :o. Jack
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Found two more deadouts yesterday?? They had plenty of stores, no idea what caused it, one had a big cluster of dead bees piled on the bottom board the other had a small amount of dead bees on the bottom board,(20 to 30) and 2 to 5 on three frames dead like they were just resting? none with heads in the cells or signs of moisture?? Very strange, that makes 19 out of 75 :o. Jack
Jack, that's kind of similar to what I found after that cold snap in November. Huge pile of bees on the bottom board plus bees just sitting on top of foundation and brood, on top of the inner cover, and on top of frames.
I checked my back yard bees again and found that I have lost a second colony. It happened to sit next to the first lost hive. This hive looks like they got them selves clustered up against the front of the hive and ran out of food close enough around them. There was lots of full frames of honey still in there, but they couldn't access it in the long cold spell. That makes 2 losses out of 6. At last check, my country bees were doing fine.
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It's just been tooooo COLD to check on my bees here! I hope they're doing ok. We just never seem to get a mid winter warm spell anymore in this weather pattern.
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Well, considering I have exactly one hive, here's hoping my winter survival rate is a perfect 100% :) So far, they're doing great. Plenty of bees, plenty of food, the hive is nice and dry inside, the queen is laying, and they're fending off the robbers nicely (in part thanks to my rock-solid robber screen).
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I have two hives and this is our first winter. Haven't checked on them...maybe afraid to? :sad:
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Hey Preacher:
I asked a friend of mine the other day what his losses were so far (he runs about 95 colonies). He said "I haven't lost any"!
I asked what he attributed that success to and he said he won't know how many he's lost until he opens them up sometime in March, so until then he's at 100% ;D
I see this was your first post so I'd like to welcome you to the forum. :welcome:
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Times have sure changed, when i first started with bees (1965) it was rare to loose hives in the winter? We just thought of how to keep them from swarming, but that wasn't a big deal because bees were every where and we could catch more swarms than we wanted. No mite's, shb, ect. :yes: Jack
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But Jen, if you do have a lose, you will still have ,10 or 15 replacements in spring lol ;D
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Welcome to the forum. Preacher
Considering your location. I think you are following the right path. If you were to open the hives, you could only do harm, breaking the propolis seals that the bees have made to restrict the loss of their self-pproduced warmth.
If you are desperately curious to know if they have adequate stores of honey, you could try the tipping method to make an estimate. But that requires a bit of experience to get the feel of it. If I recall correctly, there is some sort of a formula that can be used to make a good estimate of weight, by lifting the hive from behind, using a lifting hook attached to a scale, reading the weight and multiplying by some factor.
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I'm sure someone knows the weight of a full frame of honey minus the frame. Then its a simple calculation as to the percentage of honey present. Of course, then there is the weight of the bees which would have to be a guess. Knowing all the above, then using a scale as you suggest probably would give you a pretty good idea.
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I estimate the deep frame of honey around 8lbs. and the med. at 4lbs., when i do the lift test to check the weight,and the hive is tilted forward i lift the front of the hive if it's level i lift the back, you can feel the deference. Of course this is just my thinking. ??? Jack
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I did a heft test back at Christmas and have seen a few bees flying on warmer days but have not been home when the weather was above 50... Yesterday it was overcast but 51 deg , so went out and saw almost no activity, and listened and heard nothing , not good .. this is my last Wayne's beehive.
Heft tells me we still have some stores but the weather is still below 50 for next week. Saw but a few bees out and about.
Small Hive beetles trashed three hives this last summer, so this is my last
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Hey Zulu, good to see you again.
Hefting is one thing, living bees is another. I have a couple dead-outs that are nice and heavy (because the bees died and didn't eat much) :sad:
A light hive with living bees is worth a lot more to me than a heavy dead one, especially in the next month or to ahead. ;D
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I still have 4 out of 4 doing well. But most of the winter losses around here happen February/March, so I'm not planning any Nuc sales just yet.
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:sad:I'm down to 7 from about 20.Looks like robbing and maybe some yellow jackets
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Three so far. Two were early winter starvation's and today I lost a September swarm capture that never got their act together. Heck I never even had time to verify they were queen-right. Twenty seven left and counting......
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Got to go through the hives today.. Had to walk the mile or so to the sunflower outyard.. Found all of those hives alive and doing very well, not to mention flying.. got stung on the ear, while my wife stood WAY back and giggled..
Hives on the hill, the ones I opened up and did not have hope for? only lost one of them.. The bonus is, that one of the hives I knew was doomed from Nosema is very much alive and kicking, so i actually gained one and lost one.. here in the home yard.. three of the ten nucs are now dead.. Plenty of sugar on top, bees among that sugar, but they are dead.. the other 7 nucs are looking very lively and were out flying.. One hive that was doing well last time I checked is dead, bees clustered IN the sugar.. all the rest are out and flying today..
To be honest, I was rather startled I had not lost up to half of my hives by now. Still hanging in there!
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Too cold to even think about checking up here. I am getting worried that they may get caught out in a section of the hive and be unable to break cluster to get to fresh stores. If they start raising any amount of brood it could only make that worse.
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As luck would have it, off from work and 65+ degrees today. Life is good. I have been waiting for this to check the country hives. My 3 hives + the niece's hive are all doing great. I'm a little concerned over one hive that was a package that I didn't received until June. I don't think there is a large colony in there and there was still fondant from my last trip out there. I have to assume they have plenty of stored honey for their needs. I see a definite split in one colony's future. :yes: So, my only losses, thus far, are two colonies in the back yard. The first went with the November cold snap for unknown reasons and the second got it's self huddled in the front of the hive body and were unable to reach the food stores that were in there back in December.
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have not even started to count yet. I do know I lost a couple of small late fall nucs since I was not able to feed them. On or about Feb 28 we will have a large group of students from the bee club that will mass here and whatever is out there will make for a good learning experience < it is strange that the best learning opportunity occurs when a hive is dead. Dr Rangels bees at the bee lab are in good hands since the students there are quite willing and able and the young lady we recruited from Wisconsin as a graduate student is quite an accomplished beekeeper when she got here < this has certainly made me giving instruction via the phone much much easier.
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So far, I still have five out of five. Not sure of the health of two, single deep colonies, but there are bees present. Hope to find out more soon.
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From now to April (in my area) is when hives are building up and burning through there stores feeding brood and there selves. Like today 74F (broke the 1937 record) and every hive was out looking for anything and they were bringing in pollen? (probably from dead aster bushes), but nothing in bloom so they will be hungry. Most of next week will be in mid 60F's and upper 50F's then back down Thursday to high of 37F. :sad: The warm temp will spur the queen to laying and when the temp gos to 50F. and 30F's at night the cluster (smaller now) will stay with the brood and not move to stores, if the temp. stay's low and starve. I already had this happen on some hives, i lift them and they felt heavy and on a warm day in mid. 60F's, there was to much action on some of them (3 of them) so i looked inside and they were deadouts being robed. Don't want to scare anyone,but it happens. :o Jack
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Thanks for the posts .... Jack
Your deadouts would appear to have stores remaining. When you checked the deadouts did you have any clues as to cause of death ?
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No robbing here! Hives are buried in 4' of snow and sub-zero temps. :sad:
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Still have both hive blooming with bees out and about all the time and I keep the robbing screen on all the time from late summer when flow stops or slows down, they love to rob, will take off when flow begins in spring.
Ken
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Barbarian, They starved because they wouldnt leave the brood when it got cold.. so they stayed with the brood where they could not reach the honey.
this is in fact a fear I am carrying about with the crazy temps.. it will be late April before that fear begins to fade for me.. so three months of worry left...
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What Scott said Barbarian, Those were in my outyards (60 miles from home) i noticed more bees going in than leaving in both the top and bottom entrances, zig zaging waiting for there turn to enter :sad:, a dead give away, also seen bees going back and forth from a near by hive, also a sign what was going on. I'm thinking about making up several robber screens for this coming late summer and next winter for the outyards to see if that helps. Jack
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Not so much robbing I'm worried about, but getting cold starved cause of brood is a major concern for me right now.
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How long can bees usually survive clustered and not able to reach food?
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I have never gave that a thought? My guess would be 3 days? this is only a guess, but if they don't eat, it would seem to me they couldn't generate enough body heat to keep the brood warm or there self and freeze. JMHO. Jack
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I think that I would agree with Jack..........................Geeez, that just sounds soooo weird!
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LOL agreeing with Jack isnt all that hard once you have done it a time or two!
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according to the book tbonekel Jack is correct. the time I recall is 72 hours or exactly 3 days.
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In the UK, the term "isolation starvation" is used to describe when the cluster dies because it will not move across to frames of stores.
Some beeks prepare the hive for winter by having all the frames of stores on one side. The frames of bees/brood comes next. The theory is that the cluster will only move in one direction over the frames of stores. I've never tried it so can't comment.
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So far 4 for 16 and the one nuc is still strong.
Have been sitting out some "cut out" comb that has been in the freezer and they are finding it.
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Just checked, and I think I've lost both of them :'(
Had one i was unsure of a couple of weeks ago, but one could clearly be heard still. today... nothing.
Ordered two packages at our beekeepers association today to replace. worst case scenario, i need to build some supers quick.
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Sorry, Zweefer. Tough break. Hang in there.
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I had to go get my glasses ??? to make sure i read that some of you agreed with me :o. Hmmm, okay what are you'uns up to. C:-) Jack
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Thanks tbonekel. I'm chalking it up to first year learning curve... Trying to stay positive during the wait for the snow to go, and my packages to arrive...
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Temps were 67 here today. Checked 2 hives here at the house. 1 dead other growing. I took the pollen stores from the dead out and put it in the one growing. checked the three in an out yard. All 3 are booming added a super to one that had a full deep of honey. the hive box that died is 0 for 2 for winters. The colony in that box died last year as well. :'(
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Dang Zweef, sorry to hear that.. See if you can find local or northern queens for those packages once they are well started.. at the least, you have drawn comb so they will have a great start..
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Dang Zweef, sorry to hear that.. See if you can find local or northern queens for those packages once they are well started.. at the least, you have drawn comb so they will have a great start..
That's the general plan. This year will start much better than last year! In the mean time, I have my mead, and you guys to help pass the time :yes:
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Found 3 dead-outs today (30%).
2 were starvation and one looks like Q failure.
I hope to replace them from the survivors.
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Historically, 10 to 15% have been considered "acceptable" or "normal" winter losses.
Seems like 30% has become the "new" normal lately! :sad:
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Well my thoughts on what was up with my hive were correct. That week and a half of warm weather had them ramping up and the bees froze trying to cover brood and then there were not enough to keep the queen warm. Even saw some babies that were trying to emerge froze in place. There are still other bees in the area for they got really excited when I started to clean and put up frames. Maybe I can get a swarm trapped this year. Good news is I have another nuc coming in may and am not giving up on the venture. I suppose it was those two stings this summer that bit me hard with the bee bug lol. Mean time I will keep building my gardens for their food and playing with the chickens.
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Awwww... that stinks. Sorry to hear that, but am glad your not throwing in the towel.
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Went to my northern outyards today and brought home 7 deadouts :sad:, but the other hives are still heavy with stores and lots of bees with frames of brood. I'll have to keep an eye on those girls. I have been treatment free for the last 5 years on all my hives now, and have some hives treatment free for 12 years. :yes: So i wasn't to surprised. Jack
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I went into fall with four hives but due to neglect (robbing and SHB), had to combine down to two for winter.
Now if you ask my wife, I lost both of them and had to buy two packages of bees this spring... ...if you walk into the yard, I have two hives flying right now (packages don't arrive until May!) 8)
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Now if you ask my wife, I lost both of them and had to buy two packages of bees this spring...
NICELY done! A man with Fortitude, Foresight, Intelligence, determination, and most of all... cunning!
My respect! (Bows)
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17 hives here at home all strong and heavy with stores 3 weeks ago, inspected them today and had 8 deadouts :o. there is still supers of stores on them and alot of dead bees with heads in the cells, so the late snow and cold weather i'm thinking was the cause, when i checked them the last time there was alot of bees coming and going, so i'm thinking some of them were dead then and was being robed out. This has been a strange winter and the worst hive losses i've had, guess i might start treating some of them again to see if that helps. The good thing is, i'll have enough drawn comb frames, empty ready for the queen to lay, with pollen, and with honey, for starting the 15 queens i have coming April 15 and any splits i start,and swarms i catch this spring. Jack
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hard winter for most of us, weather wise. us here in the midwest were hammered with extended and unusual temps well below zero for a month last month. the past week we are once again in unusual high temps for this time of the year. 60's into 70's.
the last standing hive i have had, is still standing. 8)
we had very little snow this year, so blooms may not produce. i sure hope not.
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I attended the state beekeeping association's meeting this past week. A rare moment in conversation, with two beekeepers I greatly respect that both live within 10 miles of me, led to a discussion on winter losses. Neither stated exactly how many hives they lost but they had significant losses. The conclusion was that the winter in this part of the country was pretty brutal on colonies. Long cold spells that came early in winter and stayed late attributed to our losses.
It seems that my queens are doing the same as theirs. Not much egg laying yet as the temperatures have been too cold.
I have come to the realization, in this part of the country, that we depend on fluxuations in temperature for winter colony survival. The ability for the colony to move through the hive to eat stores and cleansing flights are part of the key to over wintering success. Maybe that is true everywhere.