Worldwide Beekeeping

Beekeeping => Do-It-Yourself Plans and Prints => Topic started by: Yankee11 on February 01, 2015, 06:29:51 pm

Title: My first stab at frames today.
Post by: Yankee11 on February 01, 2015, 06:29:51 pm
Well, I think I can do it. Just need to do a little tweaking.
The top bar on the left is a Mann lake bar.

(https://worldwidebeekeeping.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fs23.postimg.cc%2Fng9s107fr%2F20150201_100952.jpg&hash=31f781b8ca12d1f37d0f9635a57a16752d6d23f4) (http://postimg.cc/image/ng9s107fr/)

(https://worldwidebeekeeping.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fs23.postimg.cc%2Fxawbthm07%2F20150201_101859.jpg&hash=54fe0d6beb49801af815b476feb6c4926cfae86a) (http://postimg.cc/image/xawbthm07/)

(https://worldwidebeekeeping.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fs23.postimg.cc%2F6egxywskn%2F20150201_104537.jpg&hash=96c5021e59f71535a588896b92d8eca4314aff96) (http://postimg.cc/image/6egxywskn/)

(https://worldwidebeekeeping.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fs23.postimg.cc%2Fiiw7fw5gn%2F20150201_105558.jpg&hash=697a007365e9a2a51ed42c53a2a69f3175e4e267) (http://postimg.cc/image/iiw7fw5gn/)

Man Lake bottom om left

(https://worldwidebeekeeping.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fs7.postimg.cc%2Fa9i4tzn7b%2F20150201_111439.jpg&hash=7c57932edfe67fd37f70efe6d2a4a2bf1ff85a84) (http://postimg.cc/image/a9i4tzn7b/)

(https://worldwidebeekeeping.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fs7.postimg.cc%2Fs0ycm6rzr%2F20150201_112044.jpg&hash=003be9690a9b457df06beb9259c9c58ab64a5891) (http://postimg.cc/image/s0ycm6rzr/)

(https://worldwidebeekeeping.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fs7.postimg.cc%2Fjjyub9nav%2F20150201_113351.jpg&hash=7b45a11ae7bb1dc7e88f0e2ab16a6d0e5f8e1541) (http://postimg.cc/image/jjyub9nav/)

Not bad for first try.

(https://worldwidebeekeeping.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fs10.postimg.cc%2Fyqwydcv8l%2F20150201_120304.jpg&hash=dcd5316d7e1a22f51129e1f8f3db97eca8fd1c91) (http://postimg.cc/image/yqwydcv8l/)

(https://worldwidebeekeeping.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fs10.postimg.cc%2Fcg93ddxyd%2F20150201_130305.jpg&hash=24eeff9e45aa7a16304a3c5b038c31d1b860e88e) (http://postimg.cc/image/cg93ddxyd/)

(https://worldwidebeekeeping.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fs10.postimg.cc%2Fpa756qbdx%2F20150201_130327.jpg&hash=2f3654149eede50bc540eb5425ecc2ef5c15b58e) (http://postimg.cc/image/pa756qbdx/)

(https://worldwidebeekeeping.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fs10.postimg.cc%2Fz6886dh5x%2F20150201_130337.jpg&hash=a3c425fabbabc447b571d23ce916ee404227cc4f) (http://postimg.cc/image/z6886dh5x/)
Title: Re: My first stab at frames today.
Post by: Perry on February 01, 2015, 07:27:12 pm
I'll take 1,000!
Nice work. I would cut a corner or two and not worry about rounding off the edges/corners of the top bars or the inside of the dadoes on the end bars. Nice touches but it would cut your time down incredibly.
Title: Re: My first stab at frames today.
Post by: Yankee11 on February 01, 2015, 08:47:26 pm
Yea, I was just showing off a little. :D
Title: Re: My first stab at frames today.
Post by: brooksbeefarm on February 01, 2015, 11:30:40 pm
They look factory made to me, good job Yank, question, why would you want to put stinky plastic in a work of art. :o Jack
Title: Re: My first stab at frames today.
Post by: LazyBkpr on February 03, 2015, 08:05:06 am
I'll take 1,000!
Nice work. I would cut a corner or two and not worry about rounding off the edges/corners of the top bars or the inside of the dadoes on the end bars. Nice touches but it would cut your time down incredibly.

   exactly!   Dont worry about indenting the sides on the ends either. Cut the bars to 7/8 so they fit snugly into the side bars on top, and 5/8 or 3/4 depending on preference for the bottom bars..  snugly, you dont want to split the side bars pushing them in.

 
(https://worldwidebeekeeping.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fs21.postimg.cc%2Ffykq7iqrn%2FDSCF2033.jpg&hash=53dac6c1d0cbff73c8edd1e3310e27d54a1e5eac) (http://postimg.cc/image/fykq7iqrn/)

(https://worldwidebeekeeping.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fs17.postimg.cc%2F6zwd1eazf%2FDSCF2030.jpg&hash=a9fa5e1b18a17cbe46d5a7da80764b2fb5cdf90c) (http://postimg.cc/image/6zwd1eazf/)


   Cutting the side bars and being SAFE is the hardest part I think..   Making a slide to push them through TRULY makes the side plates/bars like slicing meat!
   

(https://worldwidebeekeeping.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fs3.postimg.cc%2Fv35f6k14v%2FDSCF2035.jpg&hash=37d6d997c577b4730c6bd073b0962debf2f27f15) (http://postimg.cc/image/v35f6k14v/)


(https://worldwidebeekeeping.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fs12.postimg.cc%2Fg4dsq68mx%2FDSCF2036.jpg&hash=39db69357c5da5f939b912c693e7d6c544a3efae) (http://postimg.cc/image/g4dsq68mx/)


   Once you figure out howmuch you can save, there is NO turning back!!   Just...  Be safe my friend!
Title: Re: My first stab at frames today.
Post by: iddee on February 03, 2015, 08:21:18 am
Clipping the corners of the top bar ends may cost a little time now, but will save a lot more time and work later. When the end of the top bar is propolized to the 3/8 in. thick lip on the box, you will appreciate it only being halfway across rather than the full width of the top bar end.
Title: Re: My first stab at frames today.
Post by: Yankee11 on February 03, 2015, 09:25:31 am
I hear ya Lazy.

I bought one of these and it woks well. No hands around the blade. I use it to cut the side bars, and to cut the groov in the top bras and bottom bars.

https://www.youtube.com/user/MicroJig
Title: Re: My first stab at frames today.
Post by: LazyBkpr on February 03, 2015, 03:58:55 pm
That LOOKS pretty slick, does it work as good as it appears to?
Title: Re: My first stab at frames today.
Post by: Papakeith on February 03, 2015, 05:11:21 pm
nicely done.  Once you've got yourself set up and running how quickly can you turn them out?
Title: Re: My first stab at frames today.
Post by: Yankee11 on February 03, 2015, 05:13:43 pm
yes, so far it works great.

There are several other You tube videos of wood workers using it. I watched quiet a few before I bought it. I sure like having my hands away from the blade, and it grips the wood very well. no slipping so far.
Title: Re: My first stab at frames today.
Post by: Yankee11 on February 03, 2015, 05:19:05 pm
I'll let ya know as i modify my process. I am working on a jig/sled to load the 2by blocks in to run over the dado blade to make the end bars. my idea is to just be able to load the block, run over dado blade then load the next block.

Top bars and bottom bars are a piece of cake.
Title: Re: My first stab at frames today.
Post by: Perry on February 03, 2015, 05:20:06 pm
You guys and your workshops........................................ >:(
C'mon up here and do it out on a picnic table with the snow knocked off, then I'll be impressed!
Oooops, did I say that out loud? ;D
Title: Re: My first stab at frames today.
Post by: Yankee11 on February 03, 2015, 06:34:48 pm
Perry,

I hate to do this to ya ole buddy but...look what I found today. YEEE HAWWW.  ;D

I'm traiding my hammer and saw for my hive tool and smoker.


(https://worldwidebeekeeping.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fs14.postimg.cc%2Fyyvrhoqzx%2F20150203_141526.jpg&hash=1ff210ee1addf26a2c068173458d30575218e25e) (http://postimg.cc/image/yyvrhoqzx/)

(https://worldwidebeekeeping.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fs14.postimg.cc%2Fsjwql0ka5%2F20150203_141531.jpg&hash=a64bad981ada78f306aa8ce204b76e55844801f7) (http://postimg.cc/image/sjwql0ka5/)

(https://worldwidebeekeeping.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fs14.postimg.cc%2F534vm8yp9%2F20150203_141554.jpg&hash=f766438f4c27ecdfff992d11c3e90f8f44194450) (http://postimg.cc/image/534vm8yp9/)
Title: Re: My first stab at frames today.
Post by: Perry on February 03, 2015, 08:30:48 pm
Are you serious?
Dandelions at the beginning of February? :P
Title: Re: My first stab at frames today.
Post by: LazyBkpr on February 03, 2015, 08:45:00 pm
no, those are pictures from LAST year.. they HAVE to be!!  A foot of snow and hes posting pictures of Dandelions blooming....   :'(

   I like the router table for cutting the grooves in the 2x block for the top and bottom board. Once set I can run however many blocks I want through it. The last batch was 20 2x12 blocks..  Got a passel of side plates made. The bonus is that if you use a 5/8 bottom bar, then you do not need to adjust anything for the 7/8 top bar, provided of course that you actually shaved 1/8 inch off each lower side...
   Hey! Yankee, did you see the wood I have for sale??  You will have to pick it up but I will make you a GREAT deal on it!


(https://worldwidebeekeeping.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fs21.postimg.cc%2Fe83rf4tnn%2FWood_002.jpg&hash=2106b829f7b2a4aa62794f83c69b3ee0ae51697e) (http://postimg.cc/image/e83rf4tnn/)

   It's a bit of a drive, not sure if you want to go that far or cross the border?    ;D
Title: Re: My first stab at frames today.
Post by: Yankee11 on February 03, 2015, 08:52:45 pm
Nice try there Lazy, but i've seen that picture with someone elses picture beside it. I bet it's covered in snow right now.

And I was all ready to go help cut it up,

BUT


(https://worldwidebeekeeping.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fs7.postimg.cc%2F8jyj1nhuf%2F20150203_141433.jpg&hash=5c823428b3bf6ca1e8e1c7d4153ac7a6a7631ef9) (http://postimg.cc/image/8jyj1nhuf/)

(https://worldwidebeekeeping.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fs7.postimg.cc%2Ff7qjaibyv%2F20150203_141545.jpg&hash=cf609478319ed976e1f4b026d988367b65f20be8) (http://postimg.cc/image/f7qjaibyv/)
Title: Re: My first stab at frames today.
Post by: LazyBkpr on February 03, 2015, 08:55:09 pm
yah yah, your running barefoot through teh grass with DANDELIONS snapping between your toes..  I hope the thistle is sprouting too!   :laugh:
Title: Re: My first stab at frames today.
Post by: Perry on February 03, 2015, 09:00:51 pm
Nice guy, gonna sell my wood for me? :P
Even with the tarp and all the snow on it I'm glad it's there. Like a guy once told me, "Better to be looking at it than for it!"
Gotta admit though, it looked a lot nicer in the pic you posted LazyBkpr.
That's the pile on the other side of my truck.


(https://worldwidebeekeeping.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fs7.postimg.cc%2Fugt3h8ds7%2FHeavy_snow_001.jpg&hash=831c14b73e028d750b9ae0a258180b809db694b3) (http://postimg.cc/image/ugt3h8ds7/)
Title: Re: My first stab at frames today.
Post by: Lburou on February 03, 2015, 10:46:59 pm
Does anybody use "Hoffman" style frames nowadays?

Perry, I saw a lone dandelion a month ago.  They don't grow well here because of the hot temps.  Only see them early spring and then again in fall.  :)

Seems like you are always doing something Yankee, can you sell me some of that motivation?
Title: Re: My first stab at frames today.
Post by: LazyBkpr on February 04, 2015, 12:10:57 am
heheh, yeah, it did look better surrounded by green than white..    Thinkin about shoveling snow so i can at least see grass again...
Title: Re: My first stab at frames today.
Post by: Jen on February 04, 2015, 01:25:19 am
Nice dandelions Yankee!  :)  I'm waiting with bated breath for the first 65+ day. It keep hitting 60. My foots tap tap tapping away..  :)
Title: Re: My first stab at frames today.
Post by: Yankee11 on February 04, 2015, 08:37:10 am
Come on out to Arkansas.

64 Sat. and may 66 Sunday.

And I have a 20lb bag of Brewers Yeast that's coming in on Friday.
Title: Re: My first stab at frames today.
Post by: efmesch on February 04, 2015, 03:47:41 pm
Yankee, it looks like you've done some really top notch woodworking on those frames.  Just one word of suggestion---note how the bought pieces have no knots and the grain runs straight along the pieces.  When the frames are new, it looks as if these "details" are unimportant, but as you use the frames, you'll find the knots to be weak points where the wood will bend out of shape and the grains will often split.  A bit of careful selectivity when choosing your lumber and deciding where to make the cuts will go a long way to keep your hard work functioning well much longer.
Title: Re: My first stab at frames today.
Post by: Jen on February 04, 2015, 04:39:25 pm
Yankee- Awe Thanks for that invite  :)  I'm afraid I would loose myself among the historical bees and honeysuckle brambles and never come back out  :D
Title: Re: My first stab at frames today.
Post by: Yankee11 on February 04, 2015, 11:50:40 pm
Thanks Ef, I will have to be more careful once I start up production.
Speaking of production, I did a little tonight.

I modified my finger joint jig to be able to cut my top and bottom channels in my side bars. Man did it mow through some blocks quick.



(https://worldwidebeekeeping.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fs23.postimg.cc%2Fba7cg0x4n%2F20150204_164107.jpg&hash=1c87971b1246dd97824fa2f57c701e89bac2ff3f) (http://postimg.cc/image/ba7cg0x4n/)

(https://worldwidebeekeeping.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fs11.postimg.cc%2Fr6l32jvlb%2F20150204_164014.jpg&hash=10affda268eabbc0566783200d1ef08a436d2984) (http://postimg.cc/image/r6l32jvlb/)

This is two 1x8's, 8 ft long. Cost's 4.00 each. So 8.00 for all these end bars
I got 300 medium end bars
and 75 deep end bars

(https://worldwidebeekeeping.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fs11.postimg.cc%2Febd3fsgbz%2F20150204_181434.jpg&hash=8de31edabf62025f6c2792cb26ce57d396667d10) (http://postimg.cc/image/ebd3fsgbz/)

(https://worldwidebeekeeping.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fs11.postimg.cc%2Fq1r0x694f%2F20150204_185608.jpg&hash=81fceaabdfc27ce7fbb70b7a184d3a0fd8e90588) (http://postimg.cc/image/q1r0x694f/)

(https://worldwidebeekeeping.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fs11.postimg.cc%2F4gly9kcdr%2F20150204_195106.jpg&hash=09f759b1497288d63579502d2466920421822a68) (http://postimg.cc/image/4gly9kcdr/)
Title: Re: My first stab at frames today.
Post by: Lburou on February 04, 2015, 11:57:29 pm
Yankee, I like the thicker end pieces you are making there.  Have only seen those in commercial use.  :)
Title: Re: My first stab at frames today.
Post by: LazyBkpr on February 05, 2015, 08:28:34 am
Do you leave the side plates full width?
Title: Re: My first stab at frames today.
Post by: Yankee11 on February 05, 2015, 08:41:38 am
No.

I am making a jig for my router table and am going to trim about 1/8 of each side. I saw how you do yours with the a table saw and may do it that way. Your way is by far faster.

Does the blade come up high enough to do the deeps?

I did the top channel 3/4 instead of 7/8, that way I can do a single pass with dado blade. I am using mann lake frames as a template. Their end bars are 3/4 at the top and 9/16 at the bottom.

I may change and just do 3/4 top and bottom, then I wouldn't need to cut the shoulder on the ends of the bottom bars.
Title: Re: My first stab at frames today.
Post by: Yankee11 on February 05, 2015, 08:56:32 am
So last night I was able to cut roughly 375 end bars out of two 2x8's 8ft long.

The two boards were 4.00 each.

8.00 divided by 375 comes to .02 each.

Now were getting some where.. :)
Title: Re: My first stab at frames today.
Post by: Marbees on February 05, 2015, 11:07:11 am
Nice work Yankee  :yes: Thanks for pictures.
Title: Re: My first stab at frames today.
Post by: Perry on February 05, 2015, 01:37:14 pm
Instead of a router to trim the 1/8" of the end bars, if you have a jointer you could do them when they are blocks.
Title: Re: My first stab at frames today.
Post by: LazyBkpr on February 05, 2015, 06:22:04 pm

   What Perry said..
   i use the jointer to do the deep side frames. I slap about five of them together and slide them across the blade. turn them over and do it again. The blade on my ten inch table saw will not go high enough to kerf the sides of deep frames..    Jointer works, just need to have a beer handy because it takes a bit.  Almost as fast to do them one by one..
Title: Re: My first stab at frames today.
Post by: apisbees on February 05, 2015, 07:13:58 pm
Does anybody use "Hoffman" style frames nowadays?

Most use the Hoffman style of self spacing frames. Langstroth frames were a straight end bar that needed to be spaced by the beekeeper so the spacing was correct and the bees had their bee space. Langstroth patented his frame around the 1860's, Hoffman patented his frame with the self spacing shoulders on his end bars around 1900's.

Nice looking frames Yankee. If you don't have one keep an eye out on Craig's list and pawn shops for a jointer it makes making end bars go a lot quicker.
Title: Re: My first stab at frames today.
Post by: Lburou on February 05, 2015, 10:44:52 pm
Thanks Apis, back in the 1970's when I first started, I had Hoffman style frames and I liked how easy it was to get the frames apart.....Or was it my imagination?  :)

This a picture of what I'm calling a Hoffman frame....Guessing that our frames are all Hoffman style and I'm stuck on the pointed shoulder of the end bars and calling it a Hoffman style frame.

(https://worldwidebeekeeping.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fs3.postimg.cc%2F9lg4q5obz%2FDN4_Hoffman_Frames_1.jpg&hash=73cf2affdcbcdceef308d885546e1997f47bb93b) (http://postimg.cc/image/9lg4q5obz/)
Title: Re: My first stab at frames today.
Post by: LazyBkpr on February 06, 2015, 07:49:51 am
Actually I have quite a few of those frames in service... not sure how much the pointed edge helps though,, I think its a lot like welding, you grind a bevel on both pieces, then fill the groove with weld for the strongest joint..   Just seems like theres mor propolis in thyat joint than two flat mated surfaces.   I will pay more attention next time I pull any of those frames.
Title: Re: My first stab at frames today.
Post by: Lburou on February 06, 2015, 09:27:16 am
Perhaps the placebo effect works in beekeeping too Lazy?!

In any case, I'm excited for Yankee's accomplishments with his frames.  :)
Title: Re: My first stab at frames today.
Post by: Slowmodem on February 06, 2015, 08:39:54 pm
Perhaps the placebo effect works in beekeeping too Lazy?!

"I'm addicted to placebos." - Steven Wright, comedian
Title: Re: My first stab at frames today.
Post by: capt44 on April 24, 2015, 11:02:35 pm
I can build the top bar and bottom bar but it's the end bars I have trouble with.
I personally can buy them cheaper than I can make them, Time wise that is.
Title: Re: My first stab at frames today.
Post by: Perry on April 25, 2015, 06:34:20 am
I can build the top bar and bottom bar but it's the end bars I have trouble with.
I personally can buy them cheaper than I can make them, Time wise that is.

And there in lies the hardest part of making your own frames. But as the price keeps rising for the pre-made ones, it starts to look attractive making your own.
Title: Re: My first stab at frames today.
Post by: Yankee11 on May 04, 2015, 05:11:08 pm
Best I can figure. Around 30 cents per frame to make.

As far as time, I can't do it know for all the other bee work that has to be done. BUT, in the winter, I'll be making them then. And, as I go I am finding ways
to shave some time off of the process.

We will be making the taper in the side bars with a joiner while they are still blocks, huge time saver right there.

I just bought 100 frames and need to buy 200 more. That 300.00 would have bought me enough lumber to make roughly 900 to 1000 frames.
Title: Re: My first stab at frames today.
Post by: LazyBkpr on May 04, 2015, 07:36:42 pm
One 2x12x8 will make 40 top and bottom bars. A few more if none are ruined due to knots, a few less if there are a LOT of knots...
    so thats .31 cents for one top bar and bottom bar.

   One 2x12x8 will make 15 blocks to cut end bars from. Each block will make approximately 17 plates or side bars. So around 255 side bars per board = about 5 cents each. So that comes to around .36 cents, minus blades, router bit, electricity and thumbs..  oops, did I say thumbs?

Title: Re: My first stab at frames today.
Post by: iddee on May 04, 2015, 08:05:48 pm
You're paying 6.20 for the board. They are 8.59 here. Now re-figure the cost for here.
Title: Re: My first stab at frames today.
Post by: Perry on May 04, 2015, 08:30:10 pm
One 2x12x8 will make 40 top and bottom bars. A few more if none are ruined due to knots, a few less if there are a LOT of knots...
    so thats .31 cents for one top bar and bottom bar.

   One 2x12x8 will make 15 blocks to cut end bars from. Each block will make approximately 17 plates or side bars. So around 255 side bars per board = about 5 cents each. So that comes to around .36 cents, minus blades, router bit, electricity and thumbs..  oops, did I say thumbs?

Cost of the tip of ones thumb..............................Priceless! :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: