Worldwide Beekeeping
Beekeeping => Beekeeping 101 => Topic started by: tecumseh on February 14, 2015, 06:33:52 pm
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On a different thread I ask the 'old hands' about how to simplify the instruction and or teaching of beekeeping. So to take a different view of this question to those a bit new to beekeeping what aspect of your early education into beekeeping made things easier to understand and/or what made it seem more confusing. again any input from beekeeper old or new is appreciated.
ET Ash
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I am thinking a mentor is the best way to be taught, for there is nothing like hands on to learn about anything, that is the best way for me anyhow. I had still remember a lot when my dad had bees and I was only 10 years old but with so much disease of bees and pesticides around takes it up a notch or two for sure.
Ken
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Going into my 2nd year.Still confused but getting better.
Doing a one day bee school was confusing to me, also all the information was overwhelming.
Meeting and going with my mentor to work his hives (100 plus) has really helped clear things up.
Hands on made a huge difference, I learned more from him in two hours than all day at bee school.
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I'm not all that new, but I would agree that a mentor is worth their weight in gold. Nothing beats being "shown" verses reading.
I also want to put in a "plug" for forums when I first started. I know this pertains to another time and "name", but I learned a ton of stuff off of a forum. I learned how to do cut-outs and trap-outs, I learned the value of fondant as an emergency feed, things like that. I've learned a lot of stuff by just "listening" to others questions (that perhaps I was afraid to ask at the time). There is comfort in knowing you can ask a question and not have a room full of people snort at you.
I think videos have made a big impact, you can punch up pretty much anything and there is a video about it (swarming, wash-boarding, robbing, extracting, you name it.
Of course all of it must be taken with a dose of caution, not everything you see or read is necessarily correct.
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Going in for a second year here. Honestly, I didn't have a "physical" mentor. This forum, youtube and a few books have given me an amazing amount of information. The one thing I would want a mentor for is the local ways of raising bees. This forum is great, but some of the information may not work for your particular region.
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Although I didn't have have a mentor (other than the bk that helped me cut out my first hive)s when i started out, I was lucky enough to always find out one way or the other to figure out what to do(thank gawd everthing on the internet has to be true :laugh:). I try to mentor to whoever wants advice, but with the caveat, there are many ways to get to where you want to go, mine is only one. Hopefully, that way they'll always be of the opinion to learn and my way is not set in stone. I've been at it long enough to know that you have to be flexible and what works with me and my hives might have marginal results with theirs
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Tec I know we are not giving you the info needed and I cannot write or spell worth a hick but I just want to say that I would be honor if I had a couple days with you at the bee college, I know than your new students would be over whelm with the questions I would be asking.
Ken
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I wish I could get a physical mentor to come out and help show me what is what. After asking numerous times I kind of gave up. I rely heavily on the forums and conversations online. Apparently I seem like I know what I am doing (I don't)
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Since you said that, papa, I'll say something I have wanted to say for a couple of days.
I would never remove the snow from the hives when the temp is below 40 F.
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Iddee
Sorry, but I don’t agree with you. Every hive needs a little ventilation air coming in moisture going out the top to survive. You guys down south have no idea how to keep bees in the frozen north. If you get 2 inches of snow you probably shut down your state. I keep my bee hives cleaned out because I know what mother nature can bring here. March is coming. Its probably the worst month of the year for weather. Beekeepers probably loose 50 percent of their hives during the month of March all from beekeeper errors.
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Almost done with my THIRD year of Bee HAVING!
I wish I had a mentor!
Micheal Bush: The Practical Beekeeper
"Rule 1: If your not making mistakes, your not learning anything."
"Rule 2: If your not confused, your not learning anything"
I followed these rules to the limit, as far as being confused and making mistakes.
IMO: (I apologize, in advance, this not aimed at any of you!)
Beekeeping is such a complex art/science, with so many variables, that a simple, cookie cutter, instruction won't work. I own about 20 beekeeping books, and NONE covered ALL the basics.
The forums are a great SOCIAL network, and there is a lot of good information. There is also a lot of bad, confusing, opinions and clutter.
YouTube has some great visual help, along with a lot of garbage. Is had been the closest to a mentor I have.
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I wish I could get a physical mentor to come out and help show me what is what. After asking numerous times I kind of gave up. I rely heavily on the forums and conversations online. Apparently I seem like I know what I am doing (I don't)
Maybe offer to help them work their bees, Sometimes that gets you in and they usually love the free labor.
Does not always work but it helped get me access to other old bee guys that have specialties in other areas of beekeeping.
Kinda like being in some secret club where everyone looks out for each other.
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never had a personal mentor come and look at my hives or have me help go through theirs. State inspector did come out and help me go through mine when I registered the apiary. But vital to have a single person to ask who can look at a photo via computer. whether asking by email, or phone. I have one local guy who I contact by phone and had an out of state mentor on a site for a year or so.
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Hi Everyone,
My son Josh attended a few classes of a beekeeping course, he missed a couple as his job got in the way. This was last February. During the course he received some handouts (printed papers) and a copy of of the book, First Lessons In Beekeeping. We went over the handouts and read the book. We also joined this forum. The handouts showed us what we would need as far as wooden ware, smoker, veil, etc.. The book was helpful in that it showed us how to install packages. I will say I found the last part of the book a little intimidating, it dealt with bee diseases, maladies, cures/corrections thereof and also the topic of queen superceedure, swarms, queen cells, etc.. The book DID give me the confidence to at least give beekeeping a try. When we first joined the forum I began going thru the posts. Man oh man, that spooked me! I recall at that time I was still trying to keep the names of the different hive components straight. On the forum I was reading things that were WAY out of my league! It's kinda funny looking back on it.
Through this forum I met up with LazyBkpr. The book and the handouts gave us the ability to get started, Lazy gave us the confidence to keep at it. I'm not sure we have a strict mentor student relationship. The idea of that may freak both of us out a little. Possibly because we're both a little on the independent side. I can say for SURE that other than "getting the bees into the box" Lazy (or at least another beekeeper) has been the biggest learning tool we (Josh and I) had and continue to have. It's not just that we've learned things, important things, by being around another keep, but also the reassurance that everything will be okay.
As an example: Ted says, Oh man, I think I've killed my queen and I'm sure it's all over now!
Scott says, I've got queens if you need one or you can.... Don't worry.
Ted says, What if I end up with 600 pounds of honey? Where will I put it? What will I do with it all? It's all over now!
Scott says, Don't worry my friend, you'll sell it faster than you thought possible, or you can...... Don't worry.
Ted says, Josh's hive swarmed and I don't think it's going to build up enough for winter! I'm sure IT'S ALL OVER NOW!
Scott says, I'll send some bees home with you if you need them or, I'll give you a nuc, or you can.... Don't worry.
So, the initial info from a book (very basic) got us to try, the guidance and friendship of another keep has sustained us and helped us to understand the rest of the book, that had intimidated us so in the beginning. Bottom line for us? Hanging out with another keep, going through his hives with him, and the questions he answers has brought us to the point where we not only WANT to expand but maybe even have the knowledge to do so. Thanks for asking Tec. Ted
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I'm starting my 7th year beekeeping. I learned the hobby by reading watching you tube videos and going to club meeting talking to other beekeepers. I stick to basic beekeeping methods. I never had a mentor. I’m very independent person. I believe trial and error is the best way to go for some people. Beekeeping is common sense.
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I believe trial and error is the best way to go for some people. Beekeeping is common sense.
My mentor says the same thing, He says he is still learning and screwing up,and he has been doing this for 50+ years.
I have learned a lot from the forum and videos,even shown my mentor a few new things I have seen/read online.
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Ray4852, Here is a quote from papa keith.
"There was actually a small hole that was melted in the snow at the edge of the box. The front including the entrance had an air-gap between the hive bodies and the snow."
I think you will find this to always be the case. The bees will make the ventilation they need.
As for my southern stupidity, I started keeping bees in 1976 in Illinois. My mentor from Wisconsin kept around 7000 hives. Maybe you are right. I might not know what I'm talking about, but I doubt that be the case.
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Since you said that, papa, I'll say something I have wanted to say for a couple of days.
I would never remove the snow from the hives when the temp is below 40 F.
I've been known to take a shovel and pile snow over them. :P
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Ted is a forever optimist. :D
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In terms of frustration, forum threads that cannot stay on topic have been one of my major frustrations. Similarly, bee club meetings where there is always just enough jibber-jabber and wobbling heads going on that one can never quite catch what the speaker is saying. Finally, experts that never actually answer the question or worse, answer a different question, would rank about third in my list of frustrating experiences. I have now managed to resolve all these frustrations by generally avoiding the forums, neither buying a membership or going to bee club meetings and not asking questions.
In terms of things that worked, having my own bees has to rank number one. Using my own head ranks a close second. Learning to "separate the wheat from the chaff" in the forums and other Internet resources is probably third and probably took up over half of the 10 months of study I did before my first bees arrived.
While there are four or five beekeepers in this world, a little over half of them on this forum, whose wisdom I am always interested in hearing, I cannot imagine a mentor being helpful to me. I feel an anchor tugging at my neck even thinking about it.
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Iddee
Sorry, but I don’t agree with you. Every hive needs a little ventilation air coming in moisture going out the top to survive. You guys down south have no idea how to keep bees in the frozen north. If you get 2 inches of snow you probably shut down your state. I keep my bee hives cleaned out because I know what mother nature can bring here. March is coming. Its probably the worst month of the year for weather. Beekeepers probably loose 50 percent of their hives during the month of March all from beekeeper errors.
A lot depends on how you keep your bees.. A few years ago I may have agreed with you, but after having bees in outyards that I JUST had NO WAY to get to when we have deep drifts.. I have found that they do as well or better when i do not OPEN the lower entrances.. i have UPPER entrances for a reason, and that reason is ventilation, and the ability to get out and do a cleansing flight.. If its COLD and the wind is howling with snow drifted over the top of the hive, the bees ar eas SNUG as they can possibly be.. shovel them out and you let the COLD back to them again.. What would you rather have... 30 ish degrees burried in a snow drift, or - 50 degree wind chill beating at your hive entrances?
Having seen the difference, I am with Iddee.. Let it SNOW and keep those hives burried... If were going to suddenly have a 50 degree day.. THEN, i might go at least un cover the top entrance... Packing a shovel on snowshoes for three miles is not my idea of fun any more...
It is a sobering thing to realize your bees at the outyards do better than your bees at home..
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Ted, that was a beautiful post.
Ray says: "The forums are a great SOCIAL network,"
I think you'll find that, just like the bees, the forums have their seasonal activities. In the winter, for lack of being busy with the hives, we turn to the more social aspect of communicating. Come the spring and summer, things get down to the "real" stuff.
I dare say, that the social aspect of the forum builds a community of keeps who understand and cooperate with one another (in spite of the vast distances that separate us) and makes the forum much more valuable when the time for "business" comes around.
I'm sure you've noticed, NEVER an insulting word from anyone. [In spite of some joking around.] You just don't talk derogatorily to your friends---and hopefully, it makes the forum just that much more valuable to newbies.
Ted spotted that special "want to help" personality of the forum, and I think that spirit of encouragement for the starting beekeeper is one of the answers Tec was looking for in his question.
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Thanks efmesch for jumping in to defend this forum.
I enjoy this forum and have learned a lot here and on the other ones.
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Scott,
my hives are fully protected from wind and heavy snow. I use open screen bottom boards with slatted racks. I would have to be crazy to let my hives lay buried in snow. You have no idea what kind of environment I keep my bees in. do you get 200 inches of snow every year. I let a commercial beekeeper keep his hives in the same area I keep mine now. He got tired of loosing 60 percent of his hives every year. He moved them out to a different yard. I learned a lot from his mistakes. He was like you and iddee. snow wont hurt them. It helps keep them warm. Yes it kept them warm. The upper entrance froze solid. No place for the moisture to go. Come spring he’d open them up and find his hives dead. I keep my bees in one yard. I have to walk about 200ft to get to them. If I cant walk thru 4 ft of snow to help them get thru the winter I’m a lazy beekeeper. I haven’t lost one hive yet during the last two winters. Its not luck its the extra work I put into my hives to help them get thru the winter. I keep telling you guys on this board about March weather. If your hives are under snow now and we get a storm in March your bees are going to die. If you want to let them lay in the snow. That’s ok with me. Tomorrow I’m going out to walk thru 4 ft of snow again to clean them out, talk to my bees and let them know they are almost home hang in there. I'm getting ready now for the big blast of snow we get every March. This winter wont give up with out a fight. Its going to last right to the end. Go to the garden forum under 2015. you will see how I protect my hives from hard wind. The snow is almost to the top of those wind blocks now.
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tec- I think, keep it seasonal. Teach or learn only what you need at that time while looking ahead to the next phase of beekeeping. For most, the starting point would be: 1.purchasing and installing a package of bees. 2. Feeding 3. Releasing the queen. 4. When to check for queen acceptance and is she laying? etc. 5. Doing inspections. 6. Adding hive bodies and supering. A teacher could go back even further to basic equipment and basic wooden ware. You get the idea. No need to fill a beginners mind with trap outs just yet. That will happen in due time and probably on their own terms.
As with a lot of things the terminology slows the beginner down. It's hard to absorb information in a class room setting if the mind is racing to remember what the basics are. So, maybe a bare bones beginner class on the hive components, the different castes of bees, equipment and woodenware.
It has been said repeatedly, you need more than one hive. I found the more hives I had at one time, the more I learned. That's where a mentor with hives would be really great for a beginner to work with. If no one wants to mentor, offer your labor at some point(s) during the year.
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If driving snow and -50 degree temps wont freeze an upper entrance solid I doubt a decently strong hive will have a frozen over upper entrance if buried in snow. It doesnt work that way, there is always a hollow completely around those hives. The warmth rising would quicklyu re open the entrance once they were buried. And besides, I said; A lot depends on how you keep your bees.. That also translates to your environment and type of bees you keep. But if you want to play it that way, I can only go by what I have heard.. The first that comes to mind is Michael Palmer in the Champlain Valley who very much prefers his hives to be buried.. several thousand of them in fact.. When they have a warm day coming up, he carries a long handled shovel to the yards so he can poke the shovel through the snow to find the hives..
As far as i am concerned, how you do it, is fine if it works for you.
You have no idea what kind of environment I keep my bees in.
My post was just pointing out what I do now and why I have changed my mind/method. 200 Inches of snow? No, we get 40 inches, sometimes 20, sometimes 90, that builds itself into 20 foot drifts because of the 50 + mph winds. 20 ft = 240 inches, does that count?
If your hives are under snow now and we get a storm in March your bees are going to die.
Why?? That has happened to bees I have tended for, and now keep for over 20 years.. Since 1977 in fact, so thats 28 years... having a storm in March has NOTHING to do with having snow over the hives now? So... i am a little confused? I had 6 foot drifts over my hives two weeks ago, a week later they were flying taking cleansing flights, so what is it that will kill them in March?
Apparently, you have no idea how we keep bees out here if you think a wind break like that will work out here.
Here, a wind break is placed where you want the biggest drift, and then that drift begins to build on itself. it will continue to grow bigger and bigger.. If you want to walk three miles to check your bees, beating your way through 20 foot drifts, then please be my guest.
I could mention my hives are about 130 yards apart here at home.. to check them, i have to punch through those tall drifts. so in effect, i have to go further, through deeper snow, but this isnt supposed to be about walking to school in bare feet, up hill both ways. Just an exchange of ideas that work in different locations.
What I do, what Iddee mentioned WORKS HERE.. That in no way implies that what you do does NOT work there. If what you do works where you live.. GREAT Keep doing it! BUT DONT tell me that what I do wont work, because your wrong on more levels than you can imagine.
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Amen
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tec asked a great question of us all, seems we have veered off and gone off on an argument over keeping bees in snow country.
my opinion? start a new thread and argue about it there. let's not continue to argue over or have a discussion about something that has been brought off topic to this thread or tec's question.
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...and... bringing it back. Gong into my second year - I did a ton of research and reading before I started. After a while all the books tended to blend together. They helped with the terminology, and some of the interesting facts (queens don't have a stinger, the different jobs workers have throughout their lives, etc.) but none of that really prepared me for actually keeping bees.
I could talk a talk, but still found I had no idea.
A mentor is a huge help. My situation was a little bit different in that he had some serious personal issues come up right when i got mine, and was unavailable to give me any hands on help / advice the entire year. That's where this forum came in. I was able to send pictures and get several responses. From them I could better decide on a path I wanted to take. Might not have been the "best" or "correct" one, but it was a decision nonetheless, and that was better than where I would have been without this resource. Both the mentor and this forum filled that "you can do it!" need that was brought up by Ted. I don't think that can be stressed enough.
I also joined a local beekeeping association. There was some help there, but unfortunately, the club is still building and finding its feet.- we have a clear vision of where we want to be, and it will be a much better environment for newcomers. That being said, I could not emphasize enough how important it is to at least know one other local beekeeper, and the clubs / associations will accomplish this. As was alluded to earlier what works somewhere else might not be the best where you are. Local experience is always weighted a bit more in my book.
The internet is nice, but once again, it is like the books - it can give a rough idea, but will not help as much as hands on experience will. When i watched youtube videos, it was still rather detached for me. it gave me an idea of what to look for / expect, but still just wasn't real.
So... what would i suggest for the new keepers? Get a mentor, join a local organization, and get some bees (2 hives minimum). Everything else is icing on the cake.
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RB, I think it was debated quite professionally by lazy and Ray, and Ray ended it like a gentleman. I think it is done, and doesn't need to go any farther.
PS. Zweefer, a queen does have a stinger. A non-barbed stinger, so she can sting more than once.
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debated professionally or not....off topic. took away from and takes away from tec's original question.
and thanks zweefer for following up.
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That I won't disagree with. Now back to our regularly scheduled program.
Again, I say, first year, relax and familiarize yourself with the bees and their habits, Second year, decide the path you want to take.
Selling honey,
selling bees,
selling queens,
Or just keeping a couple hives for fun.
You will be surprised how much you learn once you are one with the bee.
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RB, I think it was debated quite professionally by lazy and Ray, and Ray ended it like a gentleman. I think it is done, and doesn't need to go any farther.
PS. Zweefer, a queen does have a stinger. A non-barbed stinger, so she can sting more than once.
As soon as I posted, I knew someone would bust me on that... too late to even edit it correctly :-[
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Again, I say, first year, relax and familiarize yourself with the bees and their habits, Second year, decide the path you want to take.
Selling honey,
selling bees,
selling queens,
Or just keeping a couple hives for fun.
I would add "All of the above" to that list. ;D
(That's what I'd like to do one of these days)
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I found when i started beekeeping the terminology used in beekeeping was the biggest thing to understand what the older beekeepers were talking about, When we have our bee club classes i have new members ask such simple things as, what is drawn frames of foundation, whats a nuc, what do they mean washboarding, ?? ect. i could go on but i think everyone knows what i'm talking about, i try not to laugh because i remember how it was when i started. You can read the books and get an idea, but it's not like having a mentor and do hands on. JMHO. Jack.
PS. I learned alot from the school of hard knocks also, those kind you don't forget. 8)
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I think the best thing for a new beek is watching a mentor work their bees. I think it has to be in person. I learned more about bee keeping in a half an hour with my mentor Otto as he opened one hive for me, than in two months of reading books and forums. Around here bee courses include field work with the instructor, I've never taken one though.
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LOL We all know you meant DRONE instead of QUEEN Zweef.
PP;
I think the best thing for a new beek is watching a mentor work their bees.
I have to agree.. It used to mesmerize me.. To this day I cannot handle a frame of bees like my mentor once did.
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Since you said that, papa, I'll say something I have wanted to say for a couple of days.
I would never remove the snow from the hives when the temp is below 40 F.
Thanks Iddee, I'll take all of the help I can. Let me explain my thinking though.
Pulling the cover is not my first choice.
I know that this colony and a few others went into winter very light. Seemed that no matter how much I fed they wouldn't put on weight. I waited for the warmest day I could. 30 degrees(ish) and only pulled enough snow from around the top to allow me to throw some more feed on. I wasn't in there breaking up the cluster.
Plus, it snowed another foot the next day so they are back to being snug as a bug.
I also feel like I should clarify my mentor statement too. After two or three years of beekeeping I've managed to become VP of our local club. So I have plenty of people to ask questions of. I've offered to help people tend their hives but, so far, haven't gotten any call backs to swing by to help. In their defense, my free time on weekends is limited because of my schedule.
What I was lamenting was the difficulty in getting people out to take a look at my hives. Another set of experienced eyes to look and tell me that I'm doing the best I can or suggest to me ways to improve.
In lieu of that, I read, I experiment, I observe and form my own opinion of how I'm doing. This forum, even when I go for a period of time not posting much, is invaluable to me.
Alright, I've rambled enough
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That's why I hesitated to post it. I felt like you are too proficient to have each little detail pointed out, but your post gave me the opportunity to get that bit of info out to the public so others could see it. They aren't going to fly before it gets above 40 F., so the cover will keep the temp up around freezing, rather than below zero.
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thanks for having my back Lazy... :-[ :-\ :sad: :'( ;D
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That's why I hesitated to post it. I felt like you are too proficient to have each little detail pointed out, ...
LOL, and therein lies my problem :laugh: :laugh: :)
Apparently I seem like I know what I am doing (I don't)
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debated professionally or not....off topic. took away from and takes away from tec's original question.
For the record, I am with riverbee.
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Me too, DM. That's why she's here. To "TRY" and keep me in line. ;D
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Papakeith says....What I was lamenting was the difficulty in getting people out to take a look at my hives. Another set of experienced eyes to look and tell me that I'm doing the best I can or suggest to me ways to improve.
That's a great point PPK. It reminds me of way back when---how badly I wanted someone who knew, to say someting about what I was doing--properly or improperly. How much one can learn from that.
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On a different thread I ask the 'old hands' about how to simplify the instruction and or teaching of beekeeping. So to take a different view of this question to those a bit new to beekeeping what aspect of your early education into beekeeping made things easier to understand and/or what made it seem more confusing. again any input from beekeeper old or new is appreciated.
ET Ash
I have reread tec's original post several times in an effort to understand exactly what he was asking. I think we are missing tec's point. I am with DMLinton and riverbee on this. I think Jack understood the question. I attempted to answer it as well.
I don't care about "spirited" arguments when people have not drifted off the subject. I think the North and South war has already been fought. Some of this goes back to what I have said a couple of times on this forum. Not all rules pertain to everyone. Beekeeping is geographical. The bees have figured that out, why can't we?
Hopefully, when tec is up to it, we can hear what his original thoughts were.
As for wishing someone could come and inspect a hive with you...that would be awesome. Unfortunately, some on this forum don't have another beekeeper near them. It's a lot to ask someone to give their time and gas to help. Possibly, reversing the situation and offering to help someone with their hives is the next best thing? I had my share of failures to learn from in the beginning. Still making them too!
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I have heard Tec speak. He broke his lecture down into plain speak for those of us that are life science scholars. So much of beekeeping is wrapped in tough biological terms that it is often times discouraging to others. I am an accomplished engineer, but life science is not my thing, and i don't want to learn a biological dictionary, I just want someone to help me with beekeeping. That is Tec's strong point, and that is what he is trying to convey to each of us, regardless of our skill level.
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So to take a different view of this question to those a bit new to beekeeping what aspect of your early education into beekeeping made things easier to understand and/or what made it seem more confusing.
What made it easier? Forums and books. I can be a fly on the wall on forums and gather lots of information. Not always useful information, so I had to develop a filter to separate the wheat from the chaff. Beekeeping meetings come in third on the list. Only because the information isn't always presented in a digestible manner. But, there are souls there that are/were just as confused as I was. We took comfort in one another's lostedness :-\
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a lazyshooter snip...
I just want someone to help me with beekeeping.
tecumseh...
thanks for that LazyShooter... nice restatement of my intentions here. Please don't let this post end the conversation and I will assure ALL that I can navigate around poor spelling and writing skills and come to some understanding of the larger idea you were trying to convey < much like beekeeping some practice at teaching at almost any level will train you to dig the meaning out of folks writing and imho poor writing or spelling skills doesn't necessarily mean a person doesn't have some keen insight into what is at the very heart of a problem. Casually in reading some of the prior post I think I am beginning to see the larger problem and also how 'learning style' (much like geography in beekeeping practice) may be a major variable in what work or doesn't work for the beginning beekeeper.
Again keep up the comments....
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;D Well, tec.
Can we expect a book soon?
Seriously, I'd buy one.
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I certainly hope not Ray. Perhaps I don't have enough misplaced ego to go there.... basically I look around at all the books written about beekeeping and pretty much know any addition will likely not make a new beekeeper's path any easier. What I am really trying to do here is generate ideas for the educational component of the ABF.... at the most recent meeting in California I signed up to participate in this committee. The fellow who is chair of the committee has lined out his thought on this and I am simply trying to do a bit of research and see what folks experience may be. For example..... almost from the get go several folks here mentioned mentors and I suspect these are folks that learn by watching how others do things and then when they have some confidence to go down their own path.... then there is Mr Linton who I suspect is a more symbolic learner quite capable of blazing a path for himself thru the forest after he has read and digested a bit of information (from whatever source). There are I am guessing other learning styles and I think I would be missing something if I though everyone came to some level of confidence in beekeeping all in the same way. The larger idea is to build some learning programs that increase retention and reduces the quantity of incorrect information < as many teachers know correcting an incorrect idea is often 10 X as hard as teaching the idea properly in the first place.
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The larger idea is to build some learning programs that increase retention and reduces the quantity of incorrect information < as many teachers know correcting an incorrect idea is often 10 X as hard as teaching the idea properly in the first place.
When I actually ended up with my own bees, and eventually bees from my mentors hives, I was VERY frustrated, trying to figure out what it was I was doing. I KNEW the motions, I knew what to do when, but had no idea WHY I was doing those things, and looking stuff up, nothing matched.
I understand now what the issue was... as Lee so eloquently put it, most of what I saw, and heard was from the minority veiwpoint. People trying to keep bees "Naturally" or treatment free, or organically, etc, etc... Had I not already known a method, and knew what I was looking for to a certain extent, I may well have gone down one of those paths.. This is the reason I started my website, and why I am interested in helping people get started. Once I began to put the pieces together it all started to make sense.. For me, the key was finding information related to "Standard" practices. The things you do to keep your bees alive when you are NOT worried about being organic, or natural, or treatment free..
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Lazy Shooter has put his finger on an important point for new beekeepers: Bee Jargon (or Bee Vocabulary).
Each time I've begun the journey for a new vocation, qualification, or hobby, the first hurdle is the new vocabulary. Vocabularies specific to a specialized interest becomes a jargon, understood only within members of that community. The kernel points of bee keeping can be introduced with, lets say, 50 terms of bee jargon. Then, there is intermediate and advanced jargon. I've been preparing some slides on "Bee Jargon" for my Club. Something we can do for a few minutes each meeting. Its a good way to stimulate discussions and interest for independent study and provide the basis for better communication all around when the subject of bees and beekeeping comes up. HTH :)
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At the end of the day what you have to hope for if you cannot get a mentor to assist you is to read as much as you can match what you have read with what you see I know this is tedious, that is how I have learned to do what I have practice, will also learn from mistakes when you do them. While I do want honey from the hives I have, more important for the bees to be healthy. If they aren't healthy, you won't make either bees or honey. Again I read everything I could lay my hands on and compared what I read with what I was looking at.
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perhaps at some time in the not so distant future Lee you might share his jargon list with me??? that is certainly one major hurdle to a new beekeeper's understanding and a list would be very helpful.
and thanks for pointing out your own experience LazyBkp certainly in this day of the internet and everyone (regardless of experience) sharing methods it can get very confusing as to what is or is not standard acceptable practice and of course know why you do these things make the entire process much more understandable. imho there is also a lot of 'well accepted ideas' that are not well accepted at all.
Barry points out mistakes and these are quite often at the bee lab represent the largest opportunity for a student to really learn something. Sadly these are always quite random so plugging this into some learning program would be extremely difficult < since my accident I have been incapable of lifting anything heavier than 15 # so our bee club has lined up a day with the apprentices to join me one day in looking into about 60 hives at two location and I suspect this will yield several learning opportunities for exactly this reason.
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@tec and lborou:
Per example:
I read about haploids and diploids and when look these terms up in the dictionary the definitions are even confusing because I have almost zero life science education. Two sets of genes and chromosomes does not tweak me up as I have never studies genetics. All I needed to know was that all the drones from a queen are like all the drones and that the drones contributes one-half of the genetic make up of the queens off springs, and when the queens mating flight is over she carries the spermatozoa of a dozen or so drones. In brief, she will lay eggs that get one-half of their genetic make up from a dozen different drones, some of which may be full brothers.
I don't want to know about genetics, I want to know who is fathering my future bee children.
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Sliding a little farther off topic:
I wish there was some advanced beekeeping books, written in plain english.
Similar to Tom Seeley's book - Honeybee Democracy.
The 'Essential' series are good also.
I think that is why I rely so much on Micheal Bush's - The Practical Beekeeper
(note: I have and have read 17 BK books and they all are lacking)
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I write a lot of reports for state and federal agencies. My first boss, who was the best practical engineer that I have ever met, always told us to write technical papers that a high school graduate could read. That is what I have striven to accomplish all of my professional career. I need some expert beekeepers to do the same thing. And, don't tell me it can't be done.
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Lazy, Finding a expert beekeeper would be the first problem. :D Jack
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This is my first year looking into things seriously. I have not acquired anything yet, still in the researching stages…
1- Recommended reading list. I've gotten a few books from my local library that have been helpful, but were recommended to me via another source. Even having a synopsis and/or difficulty level (advanced reading vs. beginner rankings, etc.) from forum members would be helpful narrowing down the choices.
2- Some basic overview of the whole concept (box + frames = hive, broods vs. supers, overview of season, etc.). This could be a video, webpage w/ pics, etc. Believe it or not, it was reading some detailed plans/discussion on how to make your own hive's over on LazyBkpr's sight, when about 9-10 different things finally just 'clicked' in my head. Until then I was acquiring info w/o being able to really put it together in my head? Seeing/touching some hive boxes and frames @ the local club meeting also helped greatly. You could explain it all in about 2-3 minutes of video using empty/new hive-boxes and frames. Maybe an empty frame w/ last-year's comb to show what happens. Here's your brood, add your supers, sandwich this board between here to do this, this board at the top to do that, put a cover on it, you're done. Make a 2-minute video of that and you'll jump-start a lot of understanding.
3 - Contact information repository for local/regional clubs, or individuals, who would be willing to talk to, meet, or help mentor new beekeepers. I was able to find a local club through google, but maybe there's someone who likes helping folks, but isn't part of the local club (or isn't one in the area)? Maybe there's a regional group I'm not aware of? Having a list of friendly-contacts may facilitate conversations, meetings, and sharing of information and resources?
- K
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This is my first year looking into things seriously. I have not acquired anything yet, still in the researching stages…
1- Recommended reading list. I've gotten a few books from my local library that have been helpful, but were recommended to me via another source. Even having a synopsis and/or difficulty level (advanced reading vs. beginner rankings, etc.) from forum members would be helpful narrowing down the choices.
2- Some basic overview of the whole concept (box + frames = hive, broods vs. supers, overview of season, etc.). This could be a video, webpage w/ pics, etc. Believe it or not, it was reading some detailed plans/discussion on how to make your own hive's over on LazyBkpr's sight, when about 9-10 different things finally just 'clicked' in my head. Until then I was acquiring info w/o being able to really put it together in my head? Seeing/touching some hive boxes and frames @ the local club meeting also helped greatly. You could explain it all in about 2-3 minutes of video using empty/new hive-boxes and frames. Maybe an empty frame w/ last-year's comb to show what happens. Here's your brood, add your supers, sandwich this board between here to do this, this board at the top to do that, put a cover on it, you're done. Make a 2-minute video of that and you'll jump-start a lot of understanding.
3 - Contact information repository for local/regional clubs, or individuals, who would be willing to talk to, meet, or help mentor new beekeepers. I was able to find a local club through google, but maybe there's someone who likes helping folks, but isn't part of the local club (or isn't one in the area)? Maybe there's a regional group I'm not aware of? Having a list of friendly-contacts may facilitate conversations, meetings, and sharing of information and resources?
- K
pm me if you need any help
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Hahahaha!
Thanks Ray!
I had noticed in your profile you're not too far, and almost said "Hey"…. But I don't even have the jigs built yet to make the hives I want to build! LOL!
- K
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You dont need jigs, you can make do with a decent square. :)
Glad my site helped, and so you know, your post helped. I will see what i can do to add the exact video you described to my getting started page.
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Ha! Maybe YOU can make do w/ just a square… :laugh:
And I started the jig this weekend. Got a box of screws @ the Depot Monday, by this weakend I'll have the Dado blade in the table saw (wobbler, curious how it will do), and will try to make my first test-box. I need something to hold my collection of seed-packets, as the cardboard box just ain't cutting it anymore.
If THAT works out, I think I'll be buying a few 1x8's (might try Birch if I can swing the cake).
Glad you liked the idea for the video!
- K
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Best of luck! I also started by building my own... May I recommend a book by Tony Pisano : Build Your Own Beekeeping Equipment. It will help get you off to a great start.
(https://worldwidebeekeeping.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ftapatalk.imageshack.com%2Fv2%2F15%2F03%2F09%2F5102d4ffd58b31fc4cbce276812e51e2.jpg&hash=60f997edfa4fe5bd52c5e444c977a939a5fc7451)
In terms of building, this book and Lazy's website are all I have needed thus far... (with the present forum excluded, of course!)