Worldwide Beekeeping
Beekeeping => General Beekeeping => Topic started by: ShepherdsWatchFarm on February 15, 2015, 08:49:10 am
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http://www.honeyflow.com/ :-\
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I am so confused right now. Can someone tell me something? You have open jars with no bees swarming them. HOW?!?
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Very interesting, it seems to have the support of a few big names in the beekeeping community. Does not show how it works, or the costs, but it looks like something the enthusiast would be excited about.
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I was hoping it would at least bottle the honey in muth jars and put the label in place. I was willing to place the capped jars in their cardboard boxes. :) :) I can't imagine how that thing works, and like the poster above, I can't believe there aren't bees swarming in and around the jars.
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Their web-site answers some of the questions below the video but we must wait until the 23rd for the "big reveal"
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My big question is if one can convert deeps already owned, or if everything is going to be needed to be purchased from them? I would assume it is the latter. For sure you need their special frames, and then most likely the special deep to keep them in...
I agree with Perry - this is good for an enthusiast, but not practical for anything larger.
That being said, it would be cool to have one to play with though ;D
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I thought they had a drought and weren't getting honey. my enthusiasm is non existent
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I am not very knowledgeable about computers or scams. I'm not going near any of this until I see it in one of the BK catalogs!
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Making the world easy for thieves. At least until now, if a beekeeper had hives/honey supers stolen, you could assume the thief had some beekeeping knowledge. How close to April 1st is the big reveal?
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It seems too good to be true, but a new hive design has been tested by experts around the world that actually has honey coming out from the hive via a tube, and draining into a jar. :o
Click here to see a video (http://www.honeyflow.com/). Facebook page Click here. (https://www.facebook.com/flowhive)
Hope it works, but................. ???
What do you think?
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How would you protect that from robbers? :o
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David, I wondered that too - Where are the robbing bees?. But, if it really works that way, you could figure a way to protect the honey from robbers by putting the container in a tight box during the transfer. My bees would be all over that open honey by the time the bottom of that jar was covered. :)
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Makes me think of "the Sorcerer's Apprentice". Say the "magic words" and it starts filling-----but how do you get it to stop? :o
:laugh:
But, seriously---do you have to sit by and watch every bottle as it fills so you don't overflow? Filling bottles from a tank goes fast. one bottle after the next. But here? It looks like a slow flow and how do you wait out the filling process between changing containers?
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... How close to April 1st is the big reveal?
:laugh: :laugh: :D :D
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... How close to April 1st is the big reveal?
:laugh: :laugh: :D :D
Good one Ef!
From what one person on their website said. It looks like they have made some type of frame that allows the honey to flow out of a tube. There getting a lot of publicity!
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It looks as though they are hoping to get this off the ground with a kickstarter program. Those that contribute are promised a discount when they purchase. I have contributed through kickstarter before. A "patron of the arts" if you will. I contributed to some talented Irish lads that were trying to raise money to produce an album. All went as promised with emails keeping me updated on their progress.
They have Michael Bush's endorsement, so I signed up for email updates. We'll know more after the big reveal!
I can see this as a novelty for the backyard where you have one or two hives. What I don't understand, is how can you leave those bottles uncovered like that? The bees would be attempting to steal that back plus yellow jackets, etc. The time lapse photography shows bees at the front entrance, but not at the taps in back. Reminds me of tapping maple trees.
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Oops I think we have two threads on the same subject. This thing is catching everyone's eye!
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I could see a special frame where bees deposited the nectar in the cell then it fell through into a tank or something. Bees just keep depostitng and the cell never fill. But then how does it get cured?
If it's real, it would be a neat to have one in backyard as a novelty.
Maybe a gift for that special someone that has everything.. I'm selling my extractors though.
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I'm reminded of a saying, "If it seems too good to be true, it probably is."
Have they coaxed the bees into not capping the cells? Is there a decapper built in? How do you check for moisture? It should be an interesting reveal.
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Now were talking slowmodem.
And yes, bring that camera and stack of pancakes down here in front of my hives.
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And yes, bring that camera and stack of pancakes down here in front of my hives.
:laugh: :yes:
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Oops I think we have two threads on the same subject. This thing is catching everyone's eye!
Not any more! A good job of moderation. :)
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I'm reminded of a saying, "If it seems too good to be true, it probably is."
Have they coaxed the bees into not capping the cells? Is there a decapper built in? How do you check for moisture? It should be an interesting reveal.
I'm guessing there is some kind of movable foundation, draining the cells from behind.....Pure speculation on my part. :)
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Michael Bush says it is real, and he has a few of them.
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Iddee- "Michael Bush says it is real, and he has a few of them.
Well that kind of speaks for itself. I was thinking it would be nice for me cause I would only have a couple of these. Put a jar under, go mow the lawn/clover, come back to jarred honey.
Yankee- "Bees just keep depostitng and the cell never fill. But then how does it get cured?
Very good question :yes:
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I would imagine that they have some sort of shutter on the back of the cell. close it off and wait for it to be capped and then drain it off. I can't think of any other way you would 1 get it cured, or two get the type of flow they seem to be getting out of that tube.
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A quote from a beekeeper with the initials M.B.
"Well, as I see it, the kinks are worked out, although they keep trying to improve things.
I thought it was impossible when I first saw it. I actually wondered if it was a spoof or if it was real. But after seeing how it works and watching them do one frame in the open live on skype while I could see the entire frame and talk to them and after they sent me a box worth of them to test, I can assure you it works. My test of it so far is too small and over too short of a time to be sure what I think of it in practice, but I can't imagine that I'm going to find too many disadvantages. My issue now is, I'm not sure how I will manage my hives using them as it changes several things I have always done. First, I run all eight frame mediums and these are deeps, so I'll have to buy some deeps (which I already did). Second, it makes a hive much more static in size when you can empty the combs without even opening the hive really. No need to stack the supers up so high when you can just drain them periodically without having to clean up the extractor and all the equipment and the kitchen every time. Just draining it into a bucket eliminates all of that mess. The queen won't lay in them because they are too deep so you don't need an excluder (which I don't use, but some people do). You don't have to run the bees out to harvest so you eliminate all of that part of harvesting as well. In recent years I've had all the same size boxes and I try to leave them honey for winter. This may change my view of some of how I determine what to leave them since these are deeper combs and can't be used for brood I don't think I want them to cluster in them over winter. So I'll have to work out the details of how I will use them as far as when to put them on, take them off, drain them, how many mediums to have on below them etc. In other words, I'm pretty sure I'll be using them, it will just be too useful not to, but exactly how that impacts my total system I'm not really sure, until I've tried to work those details out.
When I first saw it I thought of this story from "Mastering the Art of Beekeeping" by Ormond and Harry Aebi:
" 'I want to buy one of your beehives' he said. 'I want you to bring it to me tomorrow at eleven in the morning and I want you to set it up on top of a ten foot pole that I'll have set up by that time. And I want you to come over every Thursday afternoon and drain out the honey so that I can have fresh honey every week.'... 'I can't place a beehive up on a pole like that,' I said. 'And even if I could, I couldn't work it to take off the honey.' 'Why not? I shall expect you to install a spigot at the bottom of the hive. All you'll have to do is open it and drain off the quantity of honey I require.' 'Beehives don't work that way,' I told him. 'I can't possibly do as you ask.'..."
And now beehives can work that way... "
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One possible downside is that would many of the new keeps using these actually continue to go through their hives doing inspections?
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One possible downside is that would many of the new keeps using these actually continue to go through their hives doing inspections?
That was one of my thoughts, too. "Oh, beekeeping is easy now. All I have to do is open the tap and I get honey!" How many new people will get these and try to keep bees, and become frustrated and sell them after a year or two?
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Don't you mean sell the empty equipment in a year or two?
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"That was one of my thoughts, too. "Oh, beekeeping is easy now. All I have to do is open the tap and I get honey!" How many new people will get these and try to keep bees, and become frustrated and sell them after a year or two?"
"Don't you mean sell the empty equipment in a year or two?"
better yet, buy one. if you have a roadside stand as i do, with my hives in sight, the next time a customer complains about the price of my honey, i will point to it, and tell them to go get it themselves........... ;D.................. :D
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Don't you mean sell the empty equipment in a year or two?
Exactly right! ;)
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I am GUESSING HERE that April 1 is still April fools day!
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Another cool way to do a roadside stand would be to have a hive with glass sides with only a few frames of bees on either side, with a reservoir of honey in the middle. Run a tube from the reservoir to a spigot on the outside. Basically a observation hive with a hidden honey reservoir that "dispenses" honey. ;)
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Here is a copy of the introductory email that I received from Flow Hive today.
Hi!
Thanks so much for your interest in the Flow hive. We (Cedar, Stu and our whole beekeeping family) are so excited to be letting you and the world know about the invention we have been working on for over a decade. The response has been quite overwhelming, thanks for all the amazing comments. We are working as fast as we can to complete a video that will show you all the details about the technology.
We want to tell you a little more about the Flow frames/hives, how they work, what we think this will mean for beekeeping and where we are at with producing them.
How do the Flow™ frames work?
The Flow frame consists of already partly formed honeycomb cells. The bees complete the comb with their wax, fill the cells with honey and cap the cells as usual. When you turn the tool, a bit like a tap, the cells split vertically inside the comb forming channels allowing the honey to flow down to a sealed trough at the base of the frame and out of the hive while the bees are practically undisturbed on the comb surface.
When the honey has finished draining you turn the tap again which resets the comb into the original position and allows the bees to chew the wax capping away, and fill it with honey again. The Flow frames are inserted into standard bee supers (boxes) in much the same way as standard frames, however the box itself is modified by cutting two access doorways in one end.
When the frames are inserted, the ends of the frames now form the end of the super. This allows access to the operating slots and honey pipe outlets.
You can see into the hive
Each Flow frame is designed with a unique transparent end allowing you to see into the hive. This means you can watch the bees turning nectar into honey and see when each comb is full and ready. Both children and adults get excited seeing the girls at work in their hive. Importantly you will be able to keep an eye on colony numbers thus giving you early detection of any problems within your hive.
Please note: it’s important to check the hive for disease and look after your colony as per usual. This does require keeping an eye on your bees and opening the hive and inspecting the brood if there are signs of pests or disease. Beekeepers usually check their brood once or twice a year. If you are new to beekeeping you will need to seek help from experienced beekeepers.
It’s a fantastic learning curve.
The extraction process is not only easier but much faster with a flow hive
The whole harvesting process ranges from 20 minutes to two hours depending on the viscosity of the honey.
Usually the bees don’t even discover you at the back of the hive. If you notice that the bees have discovered the collecting jar or bucket you can always cover the extracting pipes or make a lid with a hole for the pipe/s.
There is no more heavy lifting
The harvesting happens right at the hive without moving the super boxes at all. No more injured backs!
Undisturbed bees makes a happier, healthier hive
Because the hives are not regularly opened and pulled apart to be harvested, the bees are relatively undisturbed and they experience less overall stress. Although this may seem trivial, bee stress is a significant factor contributing to the strength of a bee colony.
Opening a hive also risks potential introduction of pests and disease. It’s nice not to squash bees in the process of honey harvesting.
The risk of stings is lower
Because the bees are going about their normal business while you are harvesting the honey from the back of the hive. We have found that the bees usually don’t even notice that you are there.
We still recommend you use a bee suit or veil if you are inexperienced, don’t know the particular hive or have a grumpy hive. A hive that is usually calm can be grumpy at times when the nectar flow is very slow.
Where to from here?
After many years of prototypes we now have a robust design that we have been testing for the last 3 years with beekeepers here in Australia as well as in America and Canada.
Now we want to share it with you.
The official launch of the Flow hive is on the 23rd of February
We are launching on the popular crowdfunding site Kickstarter.com.
Through our launch we hope to raise the funds to get this project off the ground and start producing and delivering these hives to you within the next four months.
Apparently, if a lot of people pledge early, then the whole thing snowballs. Conversely, if the pledging goes slowly then the project is less likely to fly. In our case we hope many people who want a Flow super to add to their beehive or who want a whole Flow beehive (the bees have to be obtained locally) will pledge on the 23rd or 24th giving us a chance to reach our target and start production.
The early pledges get an additional ‘early bird’ discount off the already discounted price giving an extra incentive to pledge quickly.
We’ll send you a reminder when the Kickstarter crowd-funding time begins on February 23rd, and we will be putting some more videos on our Facebook page and website soon.
We are also making a FAQ page on our website to answer all the great questions that are flooding in.
All the best!
Stu and Cedar Anderson
Our website is http://www.honeyflow.com/
Our FB page http://www.facebook.com/flowhive
Maybe this will answer a few questions or cause more!
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Hi all, I'm a friend of the inventors, we've just put up a FAQs page to try and answer some of your questions:
http://www.honeyflow.com/faqs/p/22
There's a heap of info there, our biggest issue right now it dealing with demand, its totally blown us all away, so we can't possibly reply to all emails, we're doing all we can to keep people updated until the big reveal, Feb 23 on Kickstarter.
As Michael says, its already fully operational and in limited production, I dare say (not sure though) that Michael's frames might even be an earlier prototype to the one being made now. Cedar and Stu do love to tinker with getting it just right.
Y.
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What are Flow™ frames?
“Flow™” is the name for our new invention that allows honey to be harvested directly from the hive without opening the hive and with little disturbance to the bees. The Flow frames are the beehive frames that make this possible.
What is a Flow™ Hive?
A Flow Hive is our term for a standard beehive using a brood box with one or more Flow Supers for honey storage and extraction. A honeybee hive is usually made up two boxes; the brood box where the queen bee lays eggs, and the ‘super’ with honeycomb for the storage of honey. A ‘Flow Super’ is a beehive box using Flow Frames that the bees store honey in.
How do the Flow™ frames work?
The Flow frame consists of already partly formed honeycomb cells. The bees complete the comb with their wax, fill the cells with honey and cap the cells as usual. When you turn the tool, a bit like a tap, the cells split vertically inside the comb forming channels allowing the honey to flow down to a sealed trough at the base of the frame and out of the hive while the bees are practically undisturbed on the comb surface.
When the honey has finished draining you turn the tap again in the upper slot resets the comb into the original position and allows the bees to chew the wax capping away, and fill it with honey again.
How do I stop the bees getting to the honey while it’s draining out of the Flow hive?
Quite often we can drain the honey out without the bees even noticing us at the back of the hive but sometimes they do and you will need to cover the the jars or better still, make a sealed system. This can be achieved by simply by making a hole in the lid of a jar for a tube to go into. Or if you are using a bucket, you can put many holes through the lid of a bucket or make up a manifold.
Do I need a Flow box for the brood box too?
No, the brood box stays the same as it always has been. You can simply replace the honey supers on a standard beehive with one or more Flow Supers.
Can I fit the Flow frames into my existing beehives?
We want this to be as affordable as possible so we have designed it so you can use your own boxes. The Flow frames are designed to fit Langstroth size deep boxes and are inserted into standard bee supers (boxes) in much the same way as standard frames. The box itself is slightly modified by cutting two access doorways in one end. When the frames are inserted, the ends of the frames now form the end of the super. This allows access to the operating slots and honey pipe outlets.
Does the Flow Super fit an 8 or 10 frame Langstroth hive?
The flow frames will fit either an 8 or 10 frame Langstroth. A full “8 frame, deep” Super would take six Flow frames, and the 10 frame super would take 7 Flow frames as they are wider than traditional frames. It is also possible to have a combination of traditional Langstroth frames and Flow frames in the one Super.
Can I put a Flow Super on a UK National?
Yes, this can be done in two ways:
1/ Use an adaptor from UK National to Langstroth size box. This can be made or bought so that the more common Langstroth size box can be used.
2/ The Flow frames are available in lengths to suit a UK national. Eight Flow frames fit across a UK national box. However UK National boxes and frames have different depths than Langstroth. The box walls height can be adjusted by adding a strip of wood to the bottom of the box.
Can I put a Flow Super on a top bar hive?
Yes and it will be up to you as to how to adapt and join the two. As long as the bees have good access to the Flow frames and sense that they are a part of their hive they will fill them with honey.
Do the bees willingly fill the Flow comb compared to the traditional wax comb?
In many years of testing we have found the bees readily wax up and fill the Flow frames. We have done quite a few experiments putting Flow frames in the middle of a standard supers with wax foundation frames either side. The bees have shown no preference either way and readily start building on, and filling the Flow frames at the same time as the traditional ones.
How long does it take before I can drain the honey from the Flow hive?
This depends on the amount of nectar available for the bees and how strong the colony is. We have had Flow Supers that have filled in a week during peak times of the flowering season, however a super usually fills well within a month during the spring and summer.
How long does it take for the honey to drain out?
Anything from twenty minutes to over two hours depending on the temperature and the viscosity of the honey. It is OK to leave it draining overnight (if it is secure from nocturnal animals). When you have finished draining the honey remember to return the frames to ‘cell closed’ position so that the bees can seal the broken cells and recommence filling them with more honey.
How much honey comes out of a Flow super?
About three kilos per frame (more if the bees really build each frame out), if you have seven frames in your super box then you can expect to harvest at least 20 kilos when every frame is full.
Can the Flow frames come out of the super, like the standard frames do?
Yes. This is important for inspections and because this is how most hives in the world work. However there is no need for this in the normal operations of extracting honey.
What extra equipment will I need to get the honey?
You will need a container to collect your honey. You will also need some pipe to connect your jar or bucket to the honey drain points on the hive. You will also need a bee suit and gloves or at least a bee veil in case your bees get aggressive. You will also need to open the hive to inspect it for health as usual which you will need a bee suit, smoker and hive tool for. If you are new to beekeeping you should link up with an experienced beekeeper to get to know how to care for your bees.
How do I know when to harvest/drain the hive?
The ends of the Flow frames are visible by taking the cover off one end of the hive box. It is worth having a look at the bees regularly through this window as you’ll get to know your hive and it doesn’t disturb the bees. You will see the bees depositing honey in the cells and, when the cells are full, they seal them with a wax capping. You can rob a frame as soon as you see that it is full, although there is no hurry, the sealed honey will keep until it is convenient for you to drain it out of the hive.
Do I need to smoke the hive?
No, not when you are operating the flow comb or just viewing the bees. Smoke is usually used to calm the bees when the hive is opened. However, bees do react to the hive being jolted so it’s a good idea to have a smoker on hand in case the bees do start getting aggressive. A little smoke puffed into the entrance of the hive and some puffed around the hive itself will tend to calm them down. You will still need a smoker to do the routine inspection of the brood nest.
Do I need to wear a bee suit, bee veil or gloves when I drain the honey out?
We do recommend you wear a bee protective suit, especially if you are new to beekeeping or have a new, unknown hive. Some beekeepers just use a veil as being stung on the face - particularly up the nose is painful and inconvenient!
We have found we can work at the back of the hive without the bees seeming to notice our presence, however we highly recommend that you wear a bee suit or at least a veil until you get to know your bees. Sometimes, for many reasons, bees can be quite aggressive so you need to be prepared for that.
After a few inspections you will know whether it is safe to approach your hives without any protection.
Is there a best time of day to rob the hive using Flow?
It is possible to harvest a Flow hive at any time of the day or night because the hive is not opened. There is not the concern of chilling or disturbing the bees on cold or windy days.
We have found the bees are calmest in the late afternoon, and at this time the honey in the hive is likely to be warmest and runs easily, therefore we tend to rob at this time.
How often do I need to check the brood?
This depends on your location. In our area it is normal to inspect the brood nest of each hive twice a year for disease. In some areas beekeepers check more frequently. If the hive is weak it should also be inspected. Our invention changes the honey harvesting component of beekeeping. All the rest of the normal beekeeping care for the hive still applies. Beetles, mites swarm control etc. The flow hive clear end frame observation does assist with allowing you to look into the hive and gauge the strength and health of the colony.
How many Flow boxes (supers) do I need per hive?
One Flow super per hive is the simple answer as you can keep tapping off the honey which gives the bees room to keep working and making more honey. However if you live in areas with a very high nectar flow or if your existing beehives are particularly large we would recommend you use two Flow supers or more. The Flow hive is new and we are interested in your feedback as to how many Flow supers you need in your situation
Do I need to leave some honey in the hive for the bees?
Yes, this applies to all beekeeping, your bees need honey to get them through the times when there is no nectar available. The number of frames of honey that you leave depends on your climate, you should consult local beekeepers as to how much they leave their colonies over the winter. The Flow frames make it a lot easier to see how much honey is in your frames at any time, so you can learn to manage how much honey to harvest and how much to leave for the bees. Watching the honey level change everyday is quite fascinating and I personally feel more in touch with the bees and cant help but look on a daily basis. You can also take just a small amount of honey if you choose, by draining one frame or part of a frame. Some Beekeepers do feed sugar syrup to their bees to help them get through the cold winter months. They rarely use honey for feeding as this could spread disease and is a lot more expensive than sugar.
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thanks for posting this. it answers some of the questions I had.
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Welcome to the forum Aussiebee. You've entered with an important and valuable post. I figure we'll be looking forrward to hearing a lot from you in the future---especially since you have so much to offer on a topic about which we know virtually nothing. :welcome:
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Is it me or is everything robust this year? I guess that's the word of the year for 2015. :eusa_doh:
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It looks like an interesting system that should work well. the factor that will determine the success will come down to the cost of the frames. at the hobby level it with the frames being worth about $30.00 per super and the saved cost of exacting equipment, the increased cost of the Flow Frames will not be a deterrent. Depending on the cost (which I have not seen any pricing of as of yet) will determine at what size of operation will it become cost prohibitive to changing over to the flow hive system.
In the video they show a single Flow Super on a single brood super hive, this setup for running of a hive is to small of space and will cause the bees to become crowed which will lead to swarming if intensive hive manipulations are not done on a regular basses. To provide the queen the space she needs to lay and the bees to congregate the hive should be 2 brood supers and 2 supers for honey. In my opinion a minimum of 2 Flow Supers should be used on each hive, that is 14 Flow Frames per hive.
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I guess I am really starting to feel my age, but I yearn for the simpler things in life. While this may ease things for the harvesting of honey for some of those willing to go this route, I would be happy if we could just find a way to help us keep our bees healthier. I don't need a car that can drive itself, I would be happy with one I could count on to start and go when I want to use it.
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As usual, Apis gets straight to the heart of the matter---cost effectiveness and hive management. As usual, his analysis is right on.
IMHO, cost management will be of secondary importance to the hobbyists. They will be willing to buy this innovation "at almost any price" because of its convenience, its novelty or just for the fun of it. For those who have 2-10 hives and have no intention of getting more, bees aren't really there for the money but for the fun, the ideals, etc. The expense will be of little importance. Some might even take up the challenge of building them themselves.
The commercial bekeeper will, however, look at his pocket and make the calculations as Apis suggests..
However, successful hive management is of concern to big and small alike. Swarm prevention will not be the only issue. Northern beekeepers who have to develop and maintain winter stores of honey/syrup for their bees will have to work out a new way of managing the bees so as to guarantee the successful overwintering of their hives. Syrup can't be stored in the Flow frames, out of concern for keeping their honey as true honey. Honey that crystalizes in the cells over the winter would be a tragedy. As I see it, that means you would have to be able to remove and store the Flow frames during the winter, while another set of frames is filled up in the supers for the winter. The timing of when to replace the frames will require extra attention to the hives.
Another consideration which will put a crimp into "standard" management techniques will be the unsuitability of moving Flow frames down into the brood nest, lest they get plugged up with pollen. The flexibility of transferring frames from upper to lower supers or to the brood box is something greatly appreciated by those who work with deep boxes only. Those who mix deeps, mediums and shallows often express regret over their inability to move frames up and down to solve assorted challenges of management.
Flow frames, being (as claimed) too deep for the queen to lay in, can't be counted on to help build up a hive in a pinch. It would also seem to me that getting the bees to build these extended cells will be a challenge that demands precise management during heavy nectar flows, something that not all of us are blessed with or up to handeling.
Bottom line: As I see it now, I think that Flow frames will be a curiosity with a short life span. People will buy them, try them and retire them. Some keeps might stick with them for their novelty value, but until proven wrong, I think I'll be skeptical about their leading a revolution.
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I wish the developers all the success in the world. That said, after a couple days to think about it, Efmesh may be correct in his assessments. After an initial frenzy, this system could be sold by the train carload to neophyte beekeepers and then sold off when their bees die. I'd really like to be wrong about this and hope the flow hives take over the industry. :)
In high school, I used to sell salesman's courses to sales people. One of the things I learned was the fact that you can't sell a person something when they are happy with what they already have......Well, you get where I'm coming from, don't you? :)
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Looks neat. I really doubt that it would work locally. Due to low humidity and nectar sources our honey is very viscous and will not flow out of the cells. I've tried to uncapp and drain a few frames and almost no honey drips out even after a couple of days.
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I don't know that this will be the revolution in honey production that extractors were in the 1870's, but it will be entertaining to see what develops.
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circling vultures known as robbing ahb hives would have a field day with this
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I can honestly say this blew my mind (and I usually hate that phrase considering people use it for the most trivial crap). Wow. Genius idea. I hope it works out. It's too bad they aren't selling them yet, but I know it takes time to develop a new idea.
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This is one of those ideas where we collectively knock our heads and say 'why didn't I think of that'! Kudos to the Australian inventors :eusa_dance:
First time I've heard about this thing. Just getting caught up on bee news now due to the weather being too cold to do anything else. :sad:
I'm sure if they've been developing this thing for 6 years, they've solved a lot of bugs along the way. A couple of things I would wonder about is why would the bees uncap the cells after they were drained? That would seem a little unexpected to me. The other thing that would seem problematic to me is sliding the frame halfs apart to let the honey flow. Between burr comb, propolis, and just plain friction, that would seem like a real engineering challenge.
I hope it's a big success.
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i still say it's just another piece of bee junk to stick in the shed . time will tell.
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so they are "selling" their product now.
https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/flow-hive-honey-on-tap-directly-from-your-beehive
Anyone gonna buy and try?
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Nope! In fact, I'm getting tired of hearing about it. It's all over facebook!
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350 usd for flow frames for 8 frame deep, another 50 usd for complete 10 frame lang. This doesn't include the " flow" super or box which is another 60 usd. And for that your outfitted for one.
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too rich for my blood. i'll stick with extracting i guess... besides, i can always use the wax :yes:
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I saw the sale page and I am going to pass up this one my self, beside I just bought a extractor last year and got to get my money worth out of it.
'
Ken
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Shipping has got to be through the roof! Imagine what you pay for supplies to be delivered for bee equipment here in the lower 48? Now think about those costs on a package coming from Australia!
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Yes, a bit expensive at this point, and my concern is not that it works, it would be springtime inspections.. In order to check and see that the bees are not preparing for swarming every nine days.... during a flow.... When these things would be ON the hive and being filled... I cant imagine how much they weigh.. basic wooden frames with was or plastic foundation weigh in at near or just over 100 pounds, these would have to weigh slightly more.. I could no longer manage my hives and keep them limited to 1 or less swarms per year if I used the flow hive. if they make these in mediums, like a normal super, I might try one.. but I would likely buy a used one or three to test. If they tested well.... I would not be against making up buckets with holes in the lids..
Walk along the outyards with several buckets, pop the hoses in, turn the valves and.... Hrm.. take up smoking again?
IF.. made in mediums, two of them per hive for the heavy flow season... at just 300 dollars each would be $15000.00... thats Fifteen thousand dollars.. thats only about six thousand five hundred and twenty one pounds of honey sold at bulk prices.....
i think this is a REALLY good idea. I like it a lot, and hopefully end up with one of those hives to set up right here by the house, but i just cant see it taking over the commercial side. Too expensive right now, I just dont have 15 grand to spend on something I already have figured out, and not practical in deeps.
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Well lazy you got to understand, and every single one of the videos that illustrate how to use it they have the flow hive, set up where you would normally have a second brood chamber as a rule well my rule since I use all deeps anyway the only issue I have is they have it illustrate it like I said in what would normally be a brood chamber instead of a honey super. As a honey super I would have no issues with it at all because you're not really taking it off you just letting the bees refill it the only time you would need to take it off is to check the brood chamber and it would be one time of year in the early spring to prevent swarming just my convoluted thoughts. With that said $400 per set up is kind of steep in my mind. :-)
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.....With that said $400 per set up is kind of steep in my mind. :-)
Much too steep.
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Call me sentimental, but there's just something about doing it the way we do now that attracts me. We "handle" the frames, uncap them, load them into an extractor, unload them, etc.
I have to admit that some of the new equipment is very efficient, I'm thinking of those Cowan line ups that one person can operate on their own doing hundreds of boxes in a shift. But then I look back to Ulee's Gold, and the "romantic" way things were done, and it seems as though with this inexorable march to modernization, something special gets lost.
I'm not changing anything, I'm just real happy to be playing in this game the way it is.
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I still think the idea is ingenious, but alas it seems like selling a new invention in bee keeping is about as hard as selling rocks to a quarry. :'(
It’s not like the phone business, or computer business where everybody wants, and are willing to pay, for the newest ideas. I must be a bee keeper at heart because I would never pay $600 for a particular smart phone. But evidently the rest of the world tends to think differently! Maybe the inventive bee keeper types should go work for Apple, Google, and Tesla ?
I still hope this thing is a success for the Aussie inventors. :eusa_clap:
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At $57.00 USD per frame and to have a self sustaining beehive size to keep the queen laying at peak rates and them having enough space to accommodate all the bees in the hive, the hive will need to be 4 supers high. If you are wanting to avoid the extracting hassle and mess, it defeats the purpose of using a combination of slandered frames and flow frames. If you need to mess with the extractor for 1 frame you may as well use it to do all the frames. With only 7 flow frames in a standard Langstroth super, the amount of bee space as well as the cluster area for the bees will be diminished compared to a Lang honey super with 9 or 10 frames.
IMHO with out creating a whole lot of additional hive management 2 flow supers should be used on each hive to allow for space for the bee population and space for the honey to be stored and ripened. At the current pricing the cost for the flow frames alone will be $800.00 alone. Add the cost of bees, brood supers, supers for the flow frames, bottom boards, and top cover and the cost for a complete hive will $1200.00 each. And you will still need the bee suit, smoker, hive tools, and stuff.
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Ultimately, the market will decide the price. Ask me why I don't use Ross rounds..... :)
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While at first I thought this was pure genius, I'm starting to have my doubts. I mean, for a conscientious beekeeper it's certainly a very cool invention, although more of a novelty than a necessity.
But browsing the web I'm finding more and more indications that a *lot* of people are looking at this and thinking, "Oh, I can keep bees and they'll be locked inside their hive and I'll never get stung! I can just get honey on tap!" They want to keep bees as if they're an ant farm. I think we're looking at a future with a lot of dead, wasted hives due to this invention.
That said, hopefully the bee-haver hysteria wears off soon.
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While at first I thought this was pure genius, I'm starting to have my doubts. I mean, for a conscientious beekeeper it's certainly a very cool invention, although more of a novelty than a necessity.
But browsing the web I'm finding more and more indications that a *lot* of people are looking at this and thinking, "Oh, I can keep bees and they'll be locked inside their hive and I'll never get stung! I can just get honey on tap!" They want to keep bees as if they're an ant farm. I think we're looking at a future with a lot of dead, wasted hives due to this invention.
That said, hopefully the bee-haver hysteria wears off soon.
That was my initial thought as well.
http://www.worldwidebeekeeping.com/forum/index.php/topic,3358.msg46831.html#msg46831
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I have already fielded statements about this thing..
"I dont NEED to be a beekeeper now, I can just collect the honey."
I think there are a few people thjat will be in for a rude awakening.. I think this thing is pretty ingenious, and it DOES have a place. Before it becomes useful, the price will have to drop a LONG ways.. then it will have to drop a little further before I consider buying one...
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"Hey, wheres my Honey, HEY, wheres my bees?" :D
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Got this in email this morning in case you may be interest.
We will be taking your questions from 8.30am, Australian Eastern Standard Time (AEST), Friday 10 April at http://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/, and will be answering as many as we can from 9am until 10am.
If you’re not sure what time this is in your area, check here: http://bit.ly/1CP10do
For us, one of the most exciting things about the past month has been watching this community of great people spring up around our invention.
It’s been so heartening to see how much love there is out there for bees and the whole natural world, and we’re really looking forward to getting to know you.
We’re thrilled to have this opportunity to talk to everyone directly and hope you will all join in on the fun and take the opportunity to ASK US ANYTHING!
So, put your thinking caps on – we look forward to seeing you at http://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/ on Friday morning.
Until then, happy beekeeping!
Cedar, Stu, and the Flow team.
Ken
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I can't believe how much money they came up with.
I say if you buy one it will be bee junk in the shed with in a year .
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Don't worry I have been around long enough to see what this is, I might get one just to play with if like LazyBpkr said they would have to drop the price to a 1/4 of what they are asking.
Ken
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The best thing I got out of the email was the link to the cool time website. :)
http://bit.ly/1CP10do
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Why did I open this post..... false title >:( :-\ :'( :laugh: