Worldwide Beekeeping
Beekeeping => Swarms, Cut Outs, Trap Outs and Bee Trees => Topic started by: tbonekel on March 03, 2015, 01:41:36 pm
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Wanting to get my traps ready and out. Can't wait! Hope I get some swarms this year!
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I hope you do as well tbone, as for me... I'm doing everything to avoid swarms this year :P
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On Sunday, March 1st, I was called on to collect my first swarm of the season. Unbelieveable---it's a whole month earlier than the usual date for swarming locally.
The "catch" went quite easily. The swarm had setttled on a fence and surrounding shrubs about shoulder high. The only real challenge was getting through the wild shrubbery that blocked access to the fence. The location wasn't far from my home so I answered the call by biking there. I wasn't suited up and had brought no tools with me, so I had to be careful as I broke off the branches where bees had settled. I placed a nuc on the ground nearby, broke off the branches with bees on them and put them in the open nuc. I didn't see the queen, but the bees that were on the frames showed that they were accepting of their re-location. After most of the swarm was inside, I took a pole and jostled the fence several times. Either I had already placed the queen inside or she decided to follow the invitation of her girls. The bees re-settled in the home I gave them (three built frames and one frame of foundation) without any further need for encouragement.
When nightfall came I returned to the spot, closed up the nuc and moved the family to where it was convenient.
If the owner of the property hadn't pointed out the exact location of the swarm, I never would have found it. It's amazing how a swarm can "disappear" into the background once its cloud of bees condenses and settles down.
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Nice swarm story Ef. I love swarms, even tho I'm trying to discourage them this year. Standing in the middle of a swarm is magical to me :)
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In my opinion, collecting swarms is the most "fun" part of beekeeping. They are generally docile, yet they always provide a challenge of some sort. And of course, best of all, they are free!! :)
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Got my Honey B gone and Swarm Commander today..
I will say, that if the Honey B gone works I will be impressed, the stuff smells good enough to eat.. or maybe drink. Looking at 60's next week so I should have a chance to try it out. Apparently you can spray rag, put that in your smoker (unlit) and puff it at the bees to make them skeedadle.. will see if it works for that.. Will also be digging all the swarm boxes out and getting them ready.. With 60 degree days upcoming I will also be doing some hiking to check on feral colonies. I have high hopes for survival this year, and with survival, comes NICE swarm catches.
I have not been overly excited about spring yet, its been too cold, but with TWO (2) days of COLD weather, then a few days of 40's, a couple days of 50's and THEN.. we are supposed to be in the lower 60's!!!! Spring fever just hit HARD, I am standing in the window tapping my foot impatiently.....
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Wanting to get my traps ready and out. Can't wait! Hope I get some swarms this year!
From what I've read, I guess I've been doing it wrong. I set out a couple of hives last year with lemongrass cotton balls to lure them. This year, after reading posts here, I'm going to put an empty box between the bottom board and the box with frames. Maybe I'll have better luck.
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Slow, what that accomplish?
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Slow, what that accomplish?
Well, I can't go back and quote the posts, but several people said swarms look for a cavity, so I figured an empty box might help entice them in.
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Hmmm, seems to make sense. This trap would have to remain closer to the ground then?
See, in my position, the swarm generally lands smack in the middle of this cedar tree just out of arms length, of course, so I have to get a ladder. I'm trying to figure a way to secure a swarm trap about halfway up this cedar to the right. That is our house below the cedars. Don't want to cut any more branches off of this tree.
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Hmmm, seems to make sense. This trap would have to remain closer to the ground then?
See, in my position, the swarm generally lands smack in the middle of this cedar tree just out of arms length, of course, so I have to get a ladder. I'm trying to figure a way to secure a swarm trap about halfway up this cedar to the right. That is our house below the cedars. Don't want to cut any more branches off of this tree.
Get or build a bee vacuum! ;)
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A bees vac would pull them in gently, and then do you blow them back out into hive body?
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A bees vac would pull them in gently, and then do you blow them back out into hive body?
Nope, just take off the top and dump them in the hive.
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The biggest problems I have had with swarm traps is placing them too close to the parent hive. i can only GUESS that bees perefer to be further away. On the order of up to 1/4 to half a mile away. i have better luck with my swarm traps at that distance...
Having said that... i have watched bees move 50 feet from the original hive into an OIL barrel, that still had Hydraulic oil in the bottom of it.. what a NASTY mess to get the bees out of...
I think... what it comes down to, is availability. if there is Nothing for them to move into further away, they will do what they have to.
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Scott, I only have last years swarm episode to go by. Although one of the swarms asconded, the other nine landed in the cedar tree or on the ground. It sure made it convenient :D
I have an empty deep with pulled frames ready for the bee taking, and I've seen a vid of you retrieving a swarm strapped onto a ladder. I would have to go buy a $40 ladder for that process. I would like to put a swarm trap at the height of the cedar tree to the right, right about the middle. Got any idea's up you sleeve?
(https://worldwidebeekeeping.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fs17.postimg.cc%2Fa8amnu24r%2FDSCF9200.jpg&hash=38eba219c896cb2ecb86e27b6e47b6f680663ea0) (http://postimg.cc/image/a8amnu24r/)
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How about pruning away all the branches directly below the place where you want your bait hive to hang. Then connect a pulley to a strong branch above the cleared area. Run a rope around the pulley and you can use it to lift the bait hive to hang where you want it. When bees move it, you can simply lower the captured swarm and take it wherever you want, replacing the now occupied hive with another empty for the next swarm.
Of course, you will still need a ladder for the pruning and setting up the pulley-----Oh Well----- :-\
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I like the pulley idea ;D however, these are not my trees, they belong to the house on this upper bank. And these cedars have very thin wobbly slippery limbs. You can't even hang a christmas ornament on them, they just slide off.
Maybe I could stack about 6 empty deeps and put the swarm trap on the top. Wondering if that tower would withstand the March winds?
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The problem is, those bees moved to that tree as a staging point. they congregate there, and the scouts go out searching for suitable locations. When they find a suitable location, they return and tell the other bees about it by dancing on the cluster.. Other scouts will find other sites, etc, etc, and eventually a decision is made to move into ONE of those locations. usually the location is some distance from the mother hive so that there is less competition, provided of course, that there IS a suitable location further away...
It all comes down to suitability..
if there is no other suitable location for them to go to, they will move into the hive Jen has on her back porch that was readied for her to do a split etc.. That is just my understanding of how it works. Like everything beekeeping, once you think you have it figured, they ruin all that effort by proving you wrong...
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Interesting you say that Scott, cause last year I had readied and bated traps on the ground right between these two cedars and the bees never went in, they kept landing in this cedar or on the ground near a shrub. The Nerve.
We do have some undeveloped land a short crows flight from our house.... hmmm
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I've used the Honey B gone and I can tell you, that stuff worked. Bees want nothing to do with.
Get this- I had honey supers set up and everything set up ready to do some extracting at end of summer. Had to run a quick errand, forgot and left door open. Well the bees found the supers, room was full of bees. SO, I turned the fan on and squirted a couple of sprays of Honey B Gone into the back of the fan. Cleared all the bees outta the room in about 20 minutes. That was funny.
Make sure you don't get your mixed up and put that Honey B Gone in the swarm traps :laugh:
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I live in a suburban area. There are several beeks and feral hives within flight distance.
I believe that a few days before a colony swarms some scouts go out looking for a suitable new home. It is possible that when the swarm emerges it can go straight to a new home.
I like checking the external activity at my home bait hive. When I see scouts around the bait hive, I am half expecting a swarm to arrive in the next few days. Half expecting ..... it doesn't always happen.
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Agreed. I have watched them leave the hive, follow them to the hollow tree 40 feet up. They never slowed down.
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While I've never, in my life, seen a swarm... I'm preparing for swarm season. I'm planning on hanging a total of 6-10 bait hives in several locations. I have built four full size deeps so far and I finished assembling my first 40 homemade frames tonight (using Scott's method as a guide: http://www.worldwidebeekeeping.com/forum/index.php/topic,97.msg50630.html#msg50630).
My question here is if I'm making a mistake using 10-frame hive bodies as bait hives? Would I be better off building 5-frame nuc-size boxes? There seems to be quite a mix of what people choose to use. What are the pros and cons of using the bigger or smaller hive bodies? An obvious con would be the amount of foundation being tied up in the 10 frame boxes.
Do swarm sizes vary in size, as a general rule, from Northern regions to Southern regions? I am in Massachusetts (yes, there's still snow on the ground... But it is going away :) )
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Cpn, here is three great pics of my first swarm last year. I Love Swarms :) Enchanting
(https://worldwidebeekeeping.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fs8.postimg.cc%2Fu0zq28w35%2FDSCF9001.jpg&hash=ad0294552a613a11d07afdab0982a5045de8b9ac) (http://postimg.cc/image/u0zq28w35/)
(https://worldwidebeekeeping.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fs8.postimg.cc%2Fpgdjnbcdt%2FDSCF9147.jpg&hash=d5310f37a4109bb34e70455161b29e6fbf3a9704) (http://postimg.cc/image/pgdjnbcdt/)
(https://worldwidebeekeeping.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fs8.postimg.cc%2Fm78b8c31t%2FDSCF9200.jpg&hash=87a23594741c3ee98dae6a6ee48d966a49c8e9b4) (http://postimg.cc/image/m78b8c31t/)
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That's just crazy, Jen! I don't want mine to swarm... I want to catch other people's, or feral, swarms. The bees will do what I want, right?
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:D You are cracking me up Cpn :D I want you to know that if you walk out into your bee yard and there are 10,000 or more bees in the sky.. just sit back and enjoy the moment. What's done is done. Watch for where they land, when most of them are all together in a clump, Go Get Them! It's Fun!
Oh! and by the way. It takes a swarm less than a 1/2 hour to flow out of the hive, hit the sky, and land. So keep your eyes peeled on your property because you may not know that it ever happened. The bees are at their most docile at this time of swarming, you can stand right in the middle of the swarmin the sky, the bees don't care about you at this time, they are searching for a place to land the queen.
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""There seems to be quite a mix of what people choose to use.""
Yes, but there's very little mix in what research shows. It shows a deep or just a bit more is the bee's preferred size. Those who use nucs do so for their own convenience, not the bees. They likely miss most of the larger swarms and only get the smaller ones.
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I agree totally with Iddee on this one.
Swarm traps are best at the size of a deep or bigger. Dr. Thomas Seeley has written probably one of the most extensive books on the subject of swarming, "Honey Bee Democracy", and he points out the optimum size and shape, etc.
I had a swarm in my backyard last year, and when I shook it (actually, used a bucket and pole to get it out of a high tree) it would not entirely fit in a single deep, it probably would not have made the cut in regards to their choice as a suitable home.
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I agree totally with Iddee on this one.
Makes sense and that was kind of my opinion... But there's so many people doing such different things I figured I'd ask. So while I'm at it:
If you get a call that your bait have has life, do you rush over or leave it for a few days/weeks?
Do you trap hem in there for a couple days to "force" them to accept their new home?
Do you find the queen and cage her for a few days?
I REALLY hope all this prep work I'm doing pans out!
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I got many tips last year when I had 10 swarms to deal with, that's why I love this forum so much is that you get several ideas to choose from. This is how I found what worked for me. After I caught my swarms and put them into the hive, I put a queen excluder between the bottom board and the deep for about 4 days. I had very swarmy bees last year, even the swarms were swarming. So locking down the queen like that made a huge difference in keeping the hive from absconding.
Just a few days ago I caught my first swarm this year. While the bees were settling onto the branch, I ran into the house and posted my first swarm. Both Perry and Ef said, "Don't leave the swarm out there, Go Get Them! they could abscond by the time you get back to them."
If you watch JPthebeeman vids, you will see him try and find the queen and when he does he puts her into a queen clip right away. Then he moves the swarm where he wants it and puts queen back into the nest of bees. I was ready with a queen clip in case I found her. I didn't find her until I peeked into the hive 4 days later. She was the green marked queen that I bought last year. I was so happy to have her back, she makes lovely sweet bees.
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I left home this morning about 9:30. Before getting into the car and driving off, I took a peak at some empty hive equipment (stacked deeps with some built and some unbuilt frames in them) and saw bees snooping around, I shifted the top super back a little bit to make a small entrance slit and left i hoping-----
I got back home around 5:30 and went straight there to seee what had transpired while I was away. YEP!!! The swarm had moved in. It was too late in the day to organize the new swarm and set up the hive so I left them as is. The picture I took is from this morning after I had opened the slit to entice the bees. If all goes well, tomorrow Ill add a few more pics of the swarm before and after organizing them.
(https://worldwidebeekeeping.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fs30.postimg.cc%2Fqie2uumrh%2FIMG_20150406_093407163.jpg&hash=6d7b67ef313ce2e3861836ca8ecc05818d24e304) (http://postimage.cc/)
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Hey CpnO
If I had a swarm move into a bait hive I would move it the evening I discovered they were in there, whether it was that day or a week ago. Why wait, they may abscond, you never know. Better to bring them to your property and maybe add what they might need, like space, sugar syrup to hold them, etc.
Ef, couldn't have happened to a nicer guy. When we first moved to the valley I had the same thing happen. It really doesn't get any easier. ;)
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Hooray! :eusa_clap:
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Thanks for he advice, Perry!
EF, I'm very happy for you! It's great that it went that smoothly!
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Thanks Perry, Slowmodem and Capn. As for that swarm that moved in on you Perry, I'll match you---it couldn't have happened to a nicer, more deserving guy.
I have very little fear that this swarm will move out. It has more than any swarm could ask for---plenty of room, built and unbuilt frames, with remnants of pollen and honey in many of the built frames. Since the stack is four supers high, I had no way of telling how large a swarm it is. That discovery will have to wait till tomorrow when I open the hive and reorganize and compact the occupied frames to set them up in the minimun space they require ---why waste equipment that could seduce some more swarms? The swarming season is not yet over.
If I find that the swarm is too small to merit a full hive on its' own, I'll consider merging it with another family.
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Hiving a swarm yourself, and having a swarm move in is two ENTIRELY different events. When you hive a swarm, a queen restrainer is a useful item, whether a cage or an excluder on the bottom board. When a swarm moves in, they are likely at home for good. No restrainer needed. After all, they chose the site, so have no reason to leave.
Congrats, EF, at our age, we need all the divine help we can get. ;D :D
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If I find that the swarm is too small to merit a full hive on its' own, I'll consider merging it with another family.
Could you make a nuc with it and possibly sell it?
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Its that good Karma coming back around Ef!!
I DO use smaller boxes, of the fifteen or so boxes I put out, I have 4 of them that are nuc sized.. I put those up last, because the bigger ones usually wear me out..
I took a larger box out of a cottonwood one evening at dusk.. I ended up hitting the ground, with the box landing on me.. it wasnt pretty.. Hiking across the crick, down the tracks, then down to the driveway where the truck is parked, carrying the ladder, AND a box full of angry bees isnt much fun.. it takes a little of the excitement out of it.. I have tried to limit my box size a little since then.. I also try to limit where I put the boxes.. meaning if I can stand on my truck tailgate to screw the box to a tree, all the better! There will always be tose perfect spots that require a bit of hiking though.
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I got to the swarm this morning: here are some pics:
(https://worldwidebeekeeping.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fs2.postimg.cc%2Fioglkftj9%2FIMG_20150407_101536600_1.jpg&hash=702af06c21aae7b127f449e541b6b34dcef08aa8) (http://postimage.cc/)
I opened the roof and saw that the swarm didn't reach that high, so I filpped back the top super.
(https://worldwidebeekeeping.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fs27.postimg.cc%2Fb98zpyfb3%2FIMG_20150407_101647018.jpg&hash=25b91903bb4c0a14032b4521bf1cf5c74534f66c) (http://postimage.cc/)
Here the main body of the swarm is exposed.
(https://worldwidebeekeeping.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fs9.postimg.cc%2F7thk3d0e3%2FIMG_20150407_103554315.jpg&hash=11729fbfd7ad4452a6e57cf6b14212254f56c7e5) (http://postimage.cc/)
In the process of reorganizing the frames, I spotted the queen---looks like she's young and mated.
(https://worldwidebeekeeping.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fs14.postimg.cc%2Fmgo4crqrx%2FIMG_20150407_103111775_1.jpg&hash=9d5a8c59eaf8f0fb69c831f7918ed7ed706de0c5) (http://postimage.cc/)
Initially I had some doubts about her having been mated but the way she carried herself, slowly and carefully, it was obvious that she wasn't a virgin.
(https://worldwidebeekeeping.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fs4.postimg.cc%2Fj42yam3nt%2FIMG_20150407_103509236.jpg&hash=1569597f46958fa0a393ff939cc60e349fd8f112) (http://postimage.cc/)
If you look toward the bottom left of this sheet of foundation, you can see how much wax the swarm put on it (look for the lighter color of the new wax and the deeper cells relative to the imprinting on the foundation).
Bottom line---the swarm was a nice one, not small, but not a really big one either. I decided to keep it as it was and to build it up ---- until I found that one of the two earlier swarms I got this spring was queenless and had laying workers. Before this swarm gets settled down in its' present position, I intend to move it (tonight) to the site of the queenless swarm, place it on the stand and put the queenless on top. Tomorrow I hope to shake the bees off all the frames of the upper, queenless hive and have them merge by coming "home" to the swarm.
All comments and criticism welcome.
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No newspaper transition? just curious :)
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I just came in from moving the swarm to the position of the queenless hive. The queenless hive is sitting on top of the new swarm.
This job had to be done at night, with all bees at home.
Next stage should be done tomorrow.
Shaking ALL the bees off the upper hive will send off house bees, field bees and the laying workers. The floor will be removed from the top hive and it will be placed as a second deep on top of the bottom swarm's deep. All bees that return to the hive EXCEPT FOR THE LAYING WORKERS should be accepted as "innocent, non-malevolent " additions to the bottom swarm. The laying workers, not being familiar with the terrain shouldn't (according to the books) be able to find their way to the hive and, should they try to enter, because they have their own pheromones, should be rejected from entering.
The spring honey flow is building up now and should make the process less problematic.
Here's hoping it works as planned.