Worldwide Beekeeping
Beekeeping => Beekeeping 101 => Topic started by: ledifni on March 21, 2015, 04:28:03 pm
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Lol seriously they are in a nasty mood. I've noticed robbers around lately, so that might have something to do with it.
Anyway, just thought I'd drop a note in here and let you guys know how they're doing this spring, after the whole drama of rescuing them from near death last fall. They're building up fast. Three solid frames of brood in the top box and the frames are packed with bees. I didn't do anything with the bottom box except lift it up and look for swarm cells (there weren't any) because they were so hot, but the pattern in the top box suggests to me there's plenty of brood in the bottom box as well. Added a new medium with fresh foundation to the top and let the ladies be :)
It looks like these girls are survivors. Considering how incredibly weak they were going into the winter I find it amazing that they're doing so well. Next steps for this year: get them built up and strong so next year I can start harvesting honey :)
One other thing: I did find one half-built queen cup on the side of one of the frames. I've heard in numerous places that they will sometimes do that just for fun, though, and given the perfect brood pattern I'm thinking it's probably not worth worrying about (I did remove it though). If I'm wrong and I should worry...please let me know so I can start freaking out.
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:D I don't think you need to freakout Led, although I've done plenty of that as well. I'm dealing with a hot hive right along with ya. The general consensus I got was leave them alone for awhile, that it's not unusual for them to be snarky in the spring.
My hot hive is stinging tho, me, my dog, my nieghbor. So I did a split and will see if that helps.
Good Luck with your bees :)
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Mine aren't usually hot -- generally they're really sweet and gentle. But today -- oh man they did *not* want me in the hive.
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Me too, I've had snarky bee hive checks before, and they do settle down. But if yours are chasing you to the back door, better take that seriously :)
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Me too, I've had snarky bee hive checks before, and they do settle down. But if yours are chasing you to the back door, better take that seriously :)
Nah they don't do that :) After I closed the hive up they settled down and said sorry. Well ok, they didn't exactly say sorry. They were still kinda glaring at me. But they stopped trying to sting me :)
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That sounds about normal then.
I did my split yesterday. So I stepped out into the backyard this afternoon to see if I get bees in my face. Yup! three of them within 1 minute. Still working on this situation
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Yeah, I've been reading your posts about it -- good luck with that hive, I hope the split helps. I would probably requeen if mine got that nasty -- there are kids in the neighborhood and we all share a big back yard so they're around all the time. Can't have my ladies stinging little kids. The queen I have now raises gentle girls though; the worst they'll do is buzz close to your ear if they think you're being too intrusive, but they have never stung me or anyone else except when I'm poking around in the hive, and usually not even then.
I did get four or five good hard stings on my hands today though. They were none too pleased.
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That is what I wanted to do, requeen the whole hive, but I made several calls to northern Calif bee breeders and I can't get a mated queen until the end of May, even from Hawaii ~ boooooo
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Queen cups are a sign of a good strong hive and not necessarily something to worry about.
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It has occured to me that when you find frames of empty queen cups, I do know that the bees are keeping them on hand in case they need them. But I also wonder if more seasoned bees are teaching young bees how to make them :)
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ledifini, good to hear an update from you on your survivor bees!
"Three solid frames of brood in the top box and the frames are packed with bees. I didn't do anything with the bottom box except lift it up and look for swarm cells (there weren't any) because they were so hot, but the pattern in the top box suggests to me there's plenty of brood in the bottom box as well.
One other thing: I did find one half-built queen cup on the side of one of the frames. I've heard in numerous places that they will sometimes do that just for fun, though, and given the perfect brood pattern I'm thinking it's probably not worth worrying about (I did remove it though). If I'm wrong and I should worry...please let me know so I can start freaking out."
swarm cells are typically on the bottom frames of the top box, i said typically.......so if i have a double deep i would expect to see them on the bottom frames of the top deep, mind you i said typically........ :D
you need to look into the bottom box to make sure the queen has enough laying space.
queen cups.....i do not concern myself with these, and i do not remove them, i leave them alone. sometimes the bees do build them and tear them down, but you have to look at this in different ways, and depending on the time of the season, or maybe an early indication of an upcoming supercedure.
look here, and start reading the section on "there are queen cups in my hive" from the pdf file "There Are Queen Cells In My Hive-What Should I Do?":
Queen Cell Identification (http://www.worldwidebeekeeping.com/forum/index.php/topic,153.msg1087.html#msg1087)
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Better get your ducks in a row (to split or chase swarms) ledifini. There was a post in another forum about a St Patrick's day swarm in Houston. Sounds like your hive is getting there.
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That's what I was thinking as well Led, and this is a good time to get your second hive. It's good practice to have a second hive for back up reasons.
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Hey, led, I don't remember seeing you in my yard. I say that because I went in a few hives and one was exactly like you described. The cells were open but not shiny and nothing was in them. I think they were a little upset because of the weather. I think it was pretty cloudy for both me and you.
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swarm cells are typically on the bottom frames of the top box, i said typically.......so if i have a double deep i would expect to see them on the bottom frames of the top deep, mind you i said typically........ :D
Well, I checked every frame in the top box and there definitely weren't any swarm cells (just the one cell, only half-finished, and it was on the side of the comb), so that's good.
you need to look into the bottom box to make sure the queen has enough laying space.
Yes, I probably do...but I'm thinking I'll wait until the bees are liking the weather a bit better and are more out and about. It's wet and chilly outside and there still isn't much traffic at the hive entrance...so most of the foragers are still probably inside and they're still not gonna be very happy with me if I go in. It should start being sunny tomorrow so I may be able to look at the bottom box then.
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Well, here's an update. This afternoon was sunny and warm, so I went ahead with the second half of the inspection (bottom box, this one is a deep, whereas the two on top are mediums).
In the deep box the queen is laying a solid pattern on two frames. There's one half-drawn frame next to the brood, on the outside. On the far side of the brood, every frame has nectar and pollen in it. I still can't seem to find that dang queen, though. She's hiding somewhere. But the evidence of her existence is all over the frames, so I'm not too worried.
That said -- are 5 frames (2 deep, 3 medium) sufficient for her purposes? 6 if they finish drawing the one outside frame? If not, what should I do about it? There is one deep frame that has a good number of empty cells (no nectar or pollen) that I could move next to the brood nest if necessary. Otherwise, maybe I could shuffle the top around a bit to give her some room, then flip the top and bottom brood boxes. Any thoughts?
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You know, I saw that today as well. It was a beautiful day wasn't it? Anyway, there was a perfectly good, drawn, empty frame on the outside of the brood area. I thought about moving it to the center, but then I caught myself and decided that I really didn't want to disrupt their system. I know a lot of people checkerboard and move stuff around and what have you, but I think it makes for more management time and may not be necessary. Watch me say that and tomorrow see my bees up in a tree. Whatever you decide, good luck to you. You will probably get some more valuable information soon.
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You know, I saw that today as well. It was a beautiful day wasn't it?
Indeed it was. Do you live in the Texas area?
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Around lake texoma just south of the Texas Oklahoma border
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Around lake texoma just south of the Texas Oklahoma border
Ah you're only about 100 miles north of me. I used to go to summer camp up there :) Yep it's a beautiful day in Texas...perfect day to mess with some bees.
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That said -- are 5 frames (2 deep, 3 medium) sufficient for her purposes? 6 if they finish drawing the one outside frame? If not, what should I do about it? There is one deep frame that has a good number of empty cells (no nectar or pollen) that I could move next to the brood nest if necessary. Otherwise, maybe I could shuffle the top around a bit to give her some room, then flip the top and bottom brood boxes. Any thoughts?
Led- I don't understand what you asking. "are 5 frames (2 deep, 3 medium) sufficient for her purposes?
Other than surviving, what is your goal for this colony? Do you hope to split or collect honey?
If you are wanting to do both, a split and still get honey, the number of frames of brood you will leave will depend upon how close you are to a nectar flow. Around here, we leave the equivalent of 5 frames of brood if we are doing this after Tax Day. If you are doing a split the early part of April, you can get by with leaving the equivalent of 3 frames of brood. You are ahead of us, but I don't know how many weeks.
I think you are doing great. You got this misfit colony through the winter and she's laying. Congrats on your first year.
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Led, the brood area is flanked by a frame of pollen on each side. She has to have empty cells to lay in between the pollen frames. She will not cross a pollen frame to get to empty cells. Number of frames vary with many things, so you can't use that as a measurement. If she fills all empty frames between pollen frames, she will either quit laying or swarm.
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So Iddee, with my split, I have three frames of brood, a frame of pollen on one side, and a frame of honey on the other side, and I added an empty frame for the bees to keep busy. There are eggs on one of the brood frames. I intended that because it took me so long to find the queen, I thought that the bees might need to make a new queen. Is this a sensible combination?
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For now, yes. The honey frame should be emptied fast enough for her to use, then the pollen frame will a little later, hopefully. Just watch them and be sure they empty enough for her to keep laying without separating the brood nest.
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Got It! Thanks ;)
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She will not cross a pollen frame to get to empty cells.
I don't want to hijack the original thread, but what would be considered a pollen frame? I have some frames that are about half pollen and half open cells. I have seen eggs in these cells with pollen right next door. At what point will the queen not cross. You have mentioned this in other threads and while looking in my hives, I will run across a frame that has a lot of pollen and it makes me question whether she would cross or not.
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Good question tbone :) just learning this myself as well. What I'm trying to remind myself to do is when I'm in the hive, to make sure that the pollen is on the sides of the frames, brood up to the top of the frame or working that way, and all brood frames in the middle. That way she can walk straight up.
But sometimes it isn't easy because like you I have frames and are a combination of everything :-\
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Just imagine the pollen as a wall. She will not lay on both sides of that wall. If the pollen goes across only half the frame, and the other half is empty cells, she will use those and go on to the next frame. That will keep her nest constant, with no breaks.
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And she will not cross nectar and capped honey, right?
Sorry led, I'm back on topic now :)
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Well, it looked to me like she had filled most of the space she had available. There is pollen on only *one* side of the brood nest, though, since it's all the way on the right side of the hive. Sounds like I should try to open up some more space -- and should I also try to open up pollen space on the far side of the brood nest? I worry about messing with their hive organization too much, since I feel like they know a lot more about it than I do lol...but if you guys advise it, I will do it.
As far as my objectives beyond survival -- my objective this year is to get them as strong as possible by fall, so they can come out of winter with a good work force. The following year I'd like to harvest honey, yes.
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Just keep space in the brood nest. They will do the rest. They can move honey, but seldom move pollen until they use it.
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Just keep space in the brood nest. They will do the rest. They can move honey, but seldom move pollen until they use it.
Well, that makes things simple. There are several nectar-filled frames I can use to expand the brood nest. Thanks Iddee :)