Worldwide Beekeeping
Beekeeping => Beekeeping 101 => Topic started by: Les on March 24, 2015, 01:09:16 am
-
hi folks, I am very new to beekeeping. As a matter of fact, my bees will be brought up from Georgia on 3/26.
My concern is that here in upstate NY we can't seem to break old man winter's icy cold. This morning it was 10 degrees. I am worried that my Georgia bees won't be able to withstand the cold nights. I will be feeding them sugar water 1:1. I had this crazy thought that if I placed a heated seedling mat under the screened bottom board that it might help to take the chill out of the super. These mats usually maintain a 75-80 degrees. Is this a stupid idea? Any comments would be appreciated.
-
provided the cluster is large enough, bees have no trouble keeping warm at night. Probably more important is to keep out drafts. Reduce the opening to about 1" wide and seal any gaps in the wood work with duct tape until the bees have had a chance to propolise things. If the screened bottom board is open (as in stuff drops to the ground below) then it's probably not the right piece of equipment to have on this time of year.
Having said that, you're not the first to think of it and a few bee keepers do "heat" their hives. I'm only willing to coddle my bees so much. They make it through five months of freezing nights no problem.
-
Hey Les, I see this was your first post. :welcome:
Glad you found us.
-
Want to welcome you Les to the forum, hope you learn what you want from here and I would go with what pistolpete said.
Ken
-
Welcome to the forum, Les!
I'm in North-Central MA, so I'm still battling the cold, too. Last year was, for all intents and purposes, my first year. My bees didn't come until Memorial Day weekend, WAY later than they were supposed to.
Anyway, I would agree with keeping the draft out and avoid using a screened bottom board.
More experienced cold-weather beeks will hopefully chime in on this, but I immediately had a few thoughts about feeding:
1) Are you using all new foundation?
2) With the current temperatures, I'm not sure they'll take the cold syrup. Maybe have two feeding jars (and top-feed, with a hive-body around it). Keep one jar inside over night and swap them each morning. If the syrup is too cold, they won't take it.
3) I would recommend feeding 2:1 until all your foundation is drawn. Using 1:1 syrup will force them to have to dehydrate it that much more. One of the beeks on here had said they ONLY feed 2:1. I think I'm going to always do the same, but I may do some testing on that as my apiaries expand. I started with 3 hives last year, but due to queen issues, I had to combine one into the other two as we headed into winter. I hope to split and may catch swarms this year.
Good luck!
-
(https://worldwidebeekeeping.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1056.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Ft373%2Friverbee1%2FWelcome%2520Your%2520Welcome%2Fwelcome_zps35177262.gif&hash=6713cf72c55b9a168ebd83c8b8976a3bd1d3fe04)
welcome to the forum les!
are these package bees that you will have to hive les?
on foundation or any drawn comb?
not sure that i would use the mat, and i would use a solid bottom board rather than a screened bottom board
with your temps (10 d f) bees aren't going to be taking any syrup, they will be clustering.
-
I'd put sugar blocks on them or dampen some sugar - put it between some wax paper. Bees will starve on cold foundation without carbs. IMO it's too early for packages up here. Mine are coming the last of May. That's plenty early, flow will be on, warmer nights and brood won't get chilled. And mine go on drawn comb.
-
Thank you all for the warm welcome. My plan with feeding them, was to warm the nectar and swap it out twice a day. Now I am thinking that I would be opening the hive twice a day and that might not be a good thing because the more you open the hive, the more cold gets in. To answer your questions, there is no comb in the hive.....this is a brand new set up. I am using wax foundations. So many options, I am getting confused. :o. Guess I am heading to the bee supply store and purchasing solid bottom boards.
-
Guess I am heading to the bee supply store and purchasing solid bottom boards.
Les,
If you already have screen bottom boards, depending on their design, you may be able to just put a piece of plywood or solid scrap material under them until it warms up.
If you have an extra hive body, you can still swap out the jars. From the bottom up:
1 - bottom board
2 - you deep (or medium) super for brood. I wouldn't start with 2 in place.
3 - inner cover (place the feed jar over the opening in it)
4 - deep (or medium) super. This will simply enclose the feed jar. No frames in this one.
5 - outer/telescoping cover
Bees heat their cluster, not the hive. I would think that the slight disturbance to QUICKLY swap out jars would not be a problem. Again, I don't have 1/4 the experience many beeks on this forum have... They may offer a better suggestion... Such as the fondant or sugar suggestion earlier.
-
Cpn- "If you already have screen bottom boards, depending on their design, you may be able to just put a piece of plywood or solid scrap material under them until it warms up.
This is what I do with my screened bottom boards in the winter. It's pretty easy to find a stray piece of foam rubber that you can tuck into the openings underneith the edge of the bottom board. You can also find foam rubber in the craft section Walmart or store the like.
Something like this
(https://worldwidebeekeeping.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fs24.postimg.cc%2F44z7k4n81%2FDSCF2162.jpg&hash=9021e029a870604f163ba90429ee9002ecb73e64) (http://postimg.cc/image/44z7k4n81/)
-
This is exactly what we decided to after some discussion. Additionally, we are going to put up a wind break around the hives and tape up as many cracks as possible, use an entrance reducer and keep our fingers crossed. Spring in the Hudson Valley of NY is never a slow process. We usually go from freezing to the 70's. Never a nice slow warming. We hope this will be the case once Old Man Winter lessens his grip. I planted lots of crocuses last fall and I am fortunate that we have a vacant lot next to us loaded with Black Locust trees which I understand the bees love. So here's hoping for nectar flow ASAP.
-
I'll just betcha everything will turn out fine :) ;)
-
"I'd put sugar blocks on them or dampen some sugar - put it between some wax paper. Bees will starve on cold foundation without carbs. IMO it's too early for packages up here. Mine are coming the last of May. That's plenty early, flow will be on, warmer nights and brood won't get chilled. And mine go on drawn comb. "
i would agree with what camero7 said. les, i do not know what your temps are, but hiving package bees on bare foundation in cold weather they may starve, syrup on or not. they won't break a cluster if it's too cold to take the syrup. there was another member here that posted about hiving package bees on foundation in cool weather, the thread is here:
Package Bees Dead after 10 days (http://www.worldwidebeekeeping.com/forum/index.php/topic,1517.msg20195.html#msg20195)
also:
Package Bees MAAREC (http://agdev.anr.udel.edu/maarec/beginning-beekeeping-2/package-bees/)
the 2nd paragraph:
"You should order packages in January or February to ensure timely delivery in early spring (April). If you are installing packages on drawn combs containing honey and pollen, you can do so in early April; if you are installing them on comb foundation, then you should order them to arrive in late April or early May. Beekeepers in northern areas may wish to delay shipments for a couple of weeks. Package bees could die if installed on foundation in temperatures below 57°F (14°C) because too few bees will be able to break cluster and move to syrup feeders. Bees clustered on combs of honey, on the other hand, do not have to break cluster in order to eat."
if your temps are too cold to put syrup on, i would consider camero7's suggestion, and directly above the bees.
-
Too late now, my suppliers are on their way to Georgia as I write this and the bees will be driven back in a climate controlled vehicle and returning on 3/26. Here is a real stretch in thought.....could I keep them in a garage and feed them nectar?
-
Les, do you mean sugar syrup?
-
How about leaving them in the package, in your garage.
The only problem with it is.... sometimes the sugar syrup can isn't properly pierced. You might be able to swap out the syrup can for a mason jar feeder with a piece of hardware cloth in between the feeder and the top of the package.
-
Considering all the good advice flying around here, I would say this is an example of where Les has more. :D :laugh:
I'm afraid I can't improve on the advice, but I can join in the chorus: "Welcome to the forum Les" :welcome:
-
CpnObvious said it well, but I would add....
Screen the entrance and the hole in the inner cover with 1/8 in. hardware cloth and put them in a heated room, approx. 60 degrees Fahrenheit until the outside temp gets to the 50's F. Then move them out and open the entrance. By then, they should have enough drawn comb and stores to make it, but keep feeding until they have nectar coming in.
-
Iddee,
I think we are going to take your suggestion and keep them hog tied in the garage. We truly would be so unhappy to lose two hives of bees on our first attempt. Jen, I did mean to write sugar water not nectar. One thing about tackling this beekeeping project is getting the terminology correct LOL. However, we are getting there and thankfully we found a local bee group with many knowledgable and experienced folks. Our group leader has said, "ask 10 beekeepers a question and you will get 10 different answers. Wish us luck and I am feeling the good wishes. So glad I found this group.
Les
-
Normally if you ask 10 bee keepers, you'll get at least 15 answers :) Bee keeping is regional. What works for me in Canada and what works for someone in florida, will most likely not work quite as well for you. Having local mentors is very very important.
-
If you ask enough bee keepers, you might even find one or two that thinks the seedling mat could be a great idea; especially for a package. The only real issue with the seedling mat is the temperature control. You don’t want to cook the bees with an unregulated heat source, or too much heat. I don’t know off hand how many watts of heat the seedling heaters generate or how quickly heat escapes your hive so there are some serious unknowns with that approach. As iddee says, a garage around 60F would be a great idea for now and more controlled at this point.
Spring may eventually arrive......but who knows. We got down to 12F the other night here. :'(
-
Welcome and enjoy your stay! :)
Lots of advice up there. I'd recommend for you to join a local beekeeper's association if there is one, or try to meet other keeps in your area. Experienced beekeepers can be a big help if you have trouble.
My concern is Georgia bees in New York. I've always heard and read that local bees adjusted to the climate where you are would probably have better luck coming through the winter than some coming from the deep south.
Good luck!
-
I'm surprised you found someone down south that would send a package of bees that far north in March. We are in south central Kansas and you usually don't see packages around here until mid April or later.
-
We have a local bee supply store and they are who I purchased my bees through. They drive a climate controlled van to Georgia themselves and bring the bees back for dispersal. They make two runs late March and late April. Being a newbie I thought I could get a jump start on the season by ordering them for March delivery. Oh me of little knowledge LOL!
-
Leslie,
I know it can be a little overwhelming, but hopefully this will help a bit. There was similar discussions last year and a video of how Rich's (from the BeeGroup) hive made out last year with a similar situation following the advice I gave you.
http://www.worldwidebeekeeping.com/forum/index.php/topic,1217.msg20739.html#msg20739
I wouldn't go buy solid bottom boards, you can just cover them with cardboard for now.
-
Rob,
Thank you so much. Seeing that video alleviated much of our anxiety. He got himself a good queen! We pick up our packages at noon and hope that there are no torrential downpours till after we get them installed. ;D
Les
-
Lindsay is working today. I'm sure she'll take good care of you.
-
This is going to be a learning experience for us all. And will be a good topic to follow getting them through to fall. Please keep us updated on your progress.
-
what rat said, please keep us updated!
good luck with the bees, with robo and lindsay to lean on, your in good hands!
btw, you will regret only ordering ONE package of bees........... :D
-
what rat said, please keep us updated!
good luck with the bees, with robo and lindsay to lean on, your in good hands!
btw, you will regret only ordering ONE package of bees........... :D
Maybe it's not too late to order a second. :eusa_think:
-
I must not have been clear......I did order two hives.
-
Morning Folks,
Update on day after install. We decided to follow our group leader's advice and set the hives up outside. Raw and rainy day but we persevered. Never knew bees could poop so much.....our suits were covered in it. We attempted a passive install but nighttime was coming on and they were not leaving the package so we ended up shaking them out of the package. They were unhappy bees! It is 7:00 a.m. the next day and I just took out some warm sugar water to replace the feeder that was there all night. I am happy to say they are breaking cluster and taking the sugar water. Temperature this morning is 37 degrees, so I was quick about replacing the sugar water. I am experimenting with hive types....I am using a wooden hive and a polystyrene one. Both inner overs have a small notch to the outside world and I noticed that the bees on the polystyrene hive are poking their heads out and wandering around a bit but quickly returning to the hive. The wooden hive, not a bee poking it's head out. Stay tuned.......
-
My concern is Georgia bees in New York. I've always heard and read that local bees adjusted to the climate where you are would probably have better luck coming through the winter than some coming from the deep south.
My best queens the last 2 years have come from Oklahoma... I got 100% survival this brutal winter from them. I don't buy into the acclimation theory that strongly. 1/2 were VSH dark and the others were Pol-Line.
-
I thought it would be better on the bees if they were transported quickly from Georgia to NY rather than having them shipped from someplace else. If we decide to add another hive next year, I think we will go with a local beek that sells Nucs.
-
Straying from the subject :-[
The issue is package bees. They are products of the pollination factories (for the most part) and the queens are produced by the thousands. Quantity over quality!
-
Ray, you are correct to an extent, but not always. We picked up 300 packages last year in Ga. We went around with the keep to his different yards and shook bees into packages. Then we went to his queen yard and picked queens from his mating boxes. We will be going after 200 to 400 packages April 10th this year and do the same thing. All Ga. beeks don't get almond bees.
-
Second update....gave them their second feeder of warmed sugar syrup for the day. They knocked down more than half a quart jar from this morning so that makes me happy. However, we do have lots of dead bees around. Our house is approximately 30 yards from the hive location and we are finding lots of them dead in the driveway and stuck to the side of the house dead. It never got above 50 today so perhaps when they took their cleansing flights, it was just too far from the hive and they got too cold. When I opened the top, there were lots of bees clustered around the feeder and at the top of the frames. Tomorrow is forecasted for a high in the mid 50's and as the week proceeds. So, I am hopeful they can make through till we hit 61 next Saturday. Saw my first bee poop, how exciting LOL!
-
I'm glad you're getting in with and playing with the bees. You can read and read and read, but until you get into them, you never understand what you've read. Good luck! ;)
-
Boy you are so correct about doing all the homework in the world regarding beekeeping but until you shake them out and a have hundreds of bees flying into your veil and all around you, you won't have a true understanding. I have to admit that I had to push down my feelings of panic when they came flying out.....thank goodness for the veil and suit.
-
Mother Nature is having fun messing with us. Beautiful 45 degree sunny day yesterday. Awoke to snow and 32 degrees! :sad:
-
Not much to report, temperatures are barely reaches the forties the last couple of days. Not much sun either. Changing their warmed sugar syrup twice a day and they are drinking away. Checked on my queens yesterday. One had already chewed her way out of the cage. I just closed the hive back up. On the second hive I think they shoved way too much fondant into the cage and she was still inside. Couldn't even poke out the fondant, had to pry open the screen on the cage and away she disappeared into the frames. I will keep the twice sugar syrup change and leave them alone to work their magic.
-
Saw the sun here this morning and it almost got to 40F. Snowed for 4 hours this afternoon :'(
As long as they keep taking syrup, things are going well. You will be amazed at their progress once things warm up and you get to take a look. You will be in much better shape next month then those just getting their packages 8)
-
thanks les for your updates!
our weather isn't great either, until today, some unusually warm days for us for a few days now. hang in there!
-
What a glorious day here in the Hudson Valley! Temperature reached 68 degrees and the sun was out. The bees were very happy and very busy. They are dragging out the dead and I actually saw some pollen on those baskets. I have a few crocuses up and I can't believe mine are providing that much pollen but somebody in the area must have some flowering. However, Mother Nature is just messing with us.....Saturday the high is forecasted for 48 and windy. So, it appears they are holding their own.
-
this time of year it's most likely willow pollen.
-
like pete said, willow.....also elm or maples les, these are the early pollen producers in my area, may be different than you.
-
Not here yet, the buds are barely swelling on the trees. There is a swamp about a 1/2 mile from us, so perhaps something is starting to bud out down there. Need to take a walk tomorrow and see if the cat willows are out yet. Can't wait to see the forsythia, usually the first shrub to bloom here.
-
With a swamp nearby, most likely skunk cabbage. Here is an interesting article on how skunk cabbage actually creates heat to melt through the ice (and warm the bees).
http://www.beverlybees.com/skunk-cabbage-late-winter-forage-bees/
-
I've certainly seen my fair share of skunk cabbage... But that bit of info was all new to me... Thanks for sharing!
-
Rob, good to know. If I could find a point of egress into this swamp, I would love to wander around it. Steep incline into it so it might be problematic. Changed the sugar syrup this a.m. and they are loaded with a very light pollen. They are really starting to ingest more syrup....busy bees need more energy I guess. The die off from the initial install and a couple days after seems to have stopped. I don't see any dead ones when I replace the nectar in the box and only a couple around the hive. So, with the gathering of pollen, ingesting lots of syrup and less dead bees I am hoping that this means a successful install ;D
-
Sounds like it. Next step is to take a look for eggs to assure the queen is doing her part..... With any luck you'll start to see some capped brood mid next week.
-
Rob, when should I do an inspection.....bees installed 3/26??
-
Next warm day, I would do a quick check, least intrusive as possible to check for eggs.
-
Not much to report.....weather has been lousy. Temps in the 30's and 40's, rainy and gray. Last night we had a clap of thunder that rattled the entire Kingston area. Guess the cloud cover was so low that there was no place for the thunder to escape after the lightening. Very strange! I keep feeding the bees warmed sugar syrup twice a day and close them up as quickly as I can. Sunday is forecasted for 60's and sunshine, think I will go in the hive and see what is going on then.