Worldwide Beekeeping
Beekeeping => Beekeeping 101 => Topic started by: sc-bee on April 04, 2015, 10:21:00 pm
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I suspect kill from peaches being sprayed. Lost most of same yard last year :sad:
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Is this your hive? This is absolutely horrible.......and they keep on spraying.
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Do you think it might be neoniconoidss sc-bee? If the peach trees were sprayed when in bloom it will be raining bees. I'm so sorry :sad:
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We have a peach orchard less than a mile from here and when they spray (mid-day it always seems >:() it is something to behold. This year I will try and catch it in pictures.
Are you sure that it is not just your winterkill? Most of my hives at least that many dead bees out front right now, if not more.
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Looks like pesticide to me. We have too many warm days during the winter to have that kind of winter die off build up. That's rough, sc. Hope it didn't hit many hives.
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I see y'all just joined, welcome. How many orchards is there around your yard? Maybe bring a pint of honey to each and break the bread with the poeple, tell em what you have and where. It's possible they're not following EPA guidelines when spraying and if they're really concerned they'll start towing the line and/or adjust their spray times. I would check with your local ag rep and see if there's laws governing the protection to humans and bees alike.
I had a little loss at my main yard and I suspect it's because of a new orchard planted on the land next to me, so I have to do the same thing before spraying season starts. I didn't suffer losses enough to affect the hives, but I don't want the crap in my comb either. If my neighbors act like they don't give a rip about it, Ill pack the yard up and move it, don't have enough money to go talk to lawyers, easier to move.
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That's just sad!
I can only add, I would document it. Pictures with notes; time, date and amount.
It's better to have and not need, than to need and not have.
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How many orchards is there around your yard? Maybe bring a pint of honey to each and break the bread with the poeple, tell em what you have and where.Ill pack the yard up and move it, don't have enough money to go talk to lawyers, easier to move.
Too many $$$ farmers to give a little jar of honey too and I don't really think they give a rip. At least this particular one. I imagine I am just a nuisance on the bottom of his shoe.... Catch my drift. Although I have not contacted him face to face I know who he is and you can usually read folks.
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I just spoke with our State Plant Board last week about a run in I had with a farmer.
They told me if there was damage they would send an investigator out to inspect. So I would call them. They also said as long as the label directions were followed, probably nothing they cane do. I would call them though.
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I would as well Yankee. We had three incidences of neonicanoids used wrongfully in Oregon about 2 years ago I think it was. The employees sprayed neonics when the trees were in bloom and attracting thousands of honeybees and bumble bees. Within a couple of hours those trees were raining bees in mall parking lots. It was just awful to watch and read about.
It was said that the sprayers may not have known that they weren't supposed to spray while the trees were in bloom. So, you never know if commercial sprayers are privy to that. Not only that, but here in California it is 'Law' the farmers are notified of when sprayers are coming thru so the farmers can relocated the hives temporarily.
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"We had three incidences of neonicanoids used wrongfully in Oregon about 2 years ago I think it was. The employees sprayed neonics when the trees were in bloom and attracting thousands of honeybees and bumble bees. Within a couple of hours those trees were raining bees in mall parking lots. It was just awful to watch and read about.
It was said that the sprayers may not have known that they weren't supposed to spray while the trees were in bloom. "
the facts on this jen...there were four in oregon, Wilsonville, Hillsboro, West Linn and downtown Portland. it was not neonics, but rather pesticides sprayed on linden trees. these sprays primarily affected bumblebees the sprayers knew better, had a job to do and didn't care......
EDIT AND ADD:
sc.....looks like pesticide kill to me, not winter kill, and some don't as you say give a rip and don't care and you are nothing but a nuisance to him.
contact him, and i agree you can 'read folks'.... show him the pix of your dead bees, he may not care, but bring the pix of the dead bees to show the blankety blank.
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I remember that, wasn't it some big home improvement chain? The last I heard was a lot of finger pointing, never did hear if anyone was fined over it.
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Actually I did contacted state apiarist about sampling. She called pesticide control for instructions. I am waiting but don't expect anything. Even at that the land my bees are own the farmer I suspect leased it two years ago. If state pesticide group comes in and the farmers hear I will never get another yard.
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If state pesticide group comes in and the farmers hear I will never get another yard.
Please don't think I'm trying to be wise here... But would you WANT a yard that doesn't abide by the manufacturer instructions or state laws of pesticide use?
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Yes, the plant board did say that as long as he is following the label directions, they can't stop him from spraying his crops when and with what he needs to. If your bees are on the land he is leasing and its his crops then he can basically do what he wants.
If he is killing the bees I would move them.
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If state pesticide group comes in and the farmers hear I will never get another yard.
Please don't think I'm trying to be wise here... But would you WANT a yard that doesn't abide by the manufacturer instructions or state laws of pesticide use?
No I will have to move on..... and find another yard. But folks and families are loyal in a small town. Joe farmer is kin to Sam land owner. Sam landowner does not farm but has land for your bees but guess what you did to joe farmer.... you put the big brother on him. The social- political aspects of small rural America. Surely you can understand that. If I were a pollinator and had 30 or more colonies etc(and it is an arbitrary number) It would be a different story. Especially if my bees were pollinating joe farmers crops. Or the crops next to his....
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Yes, the plant board did say that as long as he is following the label directions, they can't stop him from spraying his crops when and with what he needs to. If your bees are on the land he is leasing and its his crops then he can basically do what he wants.
If he is killing the bees I would move them.
Pretty much the same outcome.... my bees are on land he recently leased for hay. His peaches are next door. My bees are there at no expense to me. He pays a lease on the land, guess who probably gets to go :sad:
I may be able to move them in after he sprays not that he will tell me when he sprays but I am sure at some point in the season he sprays this or that. Maybe I can find the open window? My flow starts after the peach bloom.... peaches are wind pollinated and provide no nectar. At least the varieties planted here.
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SC is right about small town south, USA. If you call in the authorities, your name is mud. We have to take care of our own problems, or face exile. It dates back to when the moonshiners helped neighbors who were down and out, so no one wanted them caught.
Going to the local coffee house and badmouthing the farmer about recklessly spraying and killing the bees would have a much better effect, AFTER talking to the farmer and getting nowhere with him.
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Reply from state:
And on a side note the farmer may be following the label as written. It could be drift spray to other vegetation when the peaches are not in bloom. Bottom line though, it is killing my bees... I will contact the farmer which I know will be for naught and search for another yard.
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>My name is ******* and I work for the Department of Pesticide Regulation (DPR). We enforce the state and federal pesticide laws here in South Carolina. Dr. ***** requested that we contact you about a potential pesticide-related bee kill in Edgefield, SC. Our Department can analyze bees for pesticide residue under certain circumstances. The bees need to be collected and frozen for analysis no later than 48 hours after death, and we need to have some idea what to analyze for. We can become involved if you wish to file a complaint against the peach grower located near your bees. However, if you would prefer not to file a complaint in order to maintain a good relationship with the peach grower, we can assist you in another way. We can review records of any pesticides recently applied, either by the owner of the yard where your bees are kept, or by the peach grower, to see if those applications could be responsible for the death of your bees. If you would like to have me do that, please contact the peach grower and yard owner and find out what they have recently applied, along with the date and time of application. In order to make sure that we are reviewing the correct product label, we need to have the product name and EPA registration number for any product used. The EPA reg. number is usually on the front panel of the pesticide label, somewhere under the ingredients. You can also have them contact me if you wish.
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I found out today the farmer sprayed the neighboring pasture with 2-4d mixed with nitrogen. Sprayed about two weeks ago or less. So any weeds would have been in bloom. He also sprayed it last year.
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Although it's a little late now... Did you speak to him about letting you know when he's going to spray in the future? How did that conversation go?
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This is interesting sc-bee. Reading about 2-4d right now. Trying to understand how an herbicide would kill bees. I mean it's still a chemical and all.
So if the weeds had blooms when farmer sprayed, would an herbicide kill bees?
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This is interesting sc-bee. Reading about 2-4d right now. Trying to understand how an herbicide would kill bees. I mean it's still a chemical and all.
So if the weeds had blooms when farmer sprayed, would an herbicide kill bees?
I have been searching also and am finding mixed info. Some saying depending on strength. Shot another letter to Clemson and asked. I will post the reply. It may not have been the cause. The only other thing they have sprayed on the trees is sulfur and oil as a fungicide.
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Looks like a no.... not sure whether to be happy cause I scratch my head some more???
Terrestrial Invertebrates
LC50 values for 24-hour exposures in honey bees (Apis mellifera) were estimated to be 104 and 115 μg per bee. Researchers estimated the LD50 at greater than 10 μg/bee, so 2,4-D is considered practically non-toxic.3 Effects on bee longevity varied according to dose and 2,4-D form.2
2,4-D is not considered hazardous to beneficial insects due to its low insecticidal activity and an adequate safety margin when products containing 2,4-D are used at recommended levels.2,3
Carabid beetles (Carabidae) exposed to sand dosed with 1 g/m2 exhibited greater than 50% mortality after 4 days.2
The calculated 48-hour LC50 concentration for earthworms (Lumbricus rubellus) exposed to filter paper treated with 2,4-D was 61.6 μg/cm.22
Effects of 2,4-D on soil microorganisms were species-dependent.2
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Mkay, curious about the sulfer. Now, first of all I don't have any experience with these chemicals. So, I'm just learning along with you.
I do know that Iddee said that if you need to kill a hot hive, get your smoker going and put a tablespoon (I think) into the smoker and smoke the hive real good. The hot bees will die right away. Now, again, I don't know if the bees will eat that sulfer on the trees, or if the sulfer in itself will kill the bees.
Very curious situation for sure
I'm back with a sulfur update :) http://pmep.cce.cornell.edu/profiles/extoxnet/pyrethrins-ziram/sulfur-ext.html, scroll down to Ecological Effect
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I've never used sulfur, in my smoker.
What I've read: Burning the sulfur in the smoker gives off sulfur dioxide, which kills ALL the bees that come in contact with the smoke.
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I've never used sulfur, in my smoker.
What I've read: Burning the sulfur in the smoker gives off sulfur dioxide, which kills ALL the bees that come in contact with the smoke.
Yes exactly...that is why she said kill a hot hive...
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Hi Ray, sc-bee is correct on that. In my Hot Hive thread, iddee had suggested sulfur in a smoker to kill a hot hive. That's in case a hot hive cannot be tamed! The reason for sulfur is that you can reuse the hive and frames again.
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SC is right about small town south, USA. If you call in the authorities, your name is mud. We have to take care of our own problems, or face exile. It dates back to when the moonshiners helped neighbors who were down and out, so no one wanted them caught.
Going to the local coffee house and badmouthing the farmer about recklessly spraying and killing the bees would have a much better effect, AFTER talking to the farmer and getting nowhere with him.
What Iddee said.. You dont EVER call in authorities in a small town like the one I live in. There is usually nothing they can do anyhow.. they need PROOF POSITIVE of any wrongdoing.. all YOU need is word.. meaning word spreads, and people talk.. if you are in good standing, someone is going to come to you and say.. HEY! This is what I just heard from such and such... then you can ask questions, and it doesnt take long to be perfectly content with your knowledge, and then go confront the perpetrator.. 97% of the time he will work to make amends, the other 3% of the time its a KID who doesnt yet understand the situation, so you go to his/her parents and that is usually enough to get things fixed...
Pesticide spraying in this state by a commercial applicator is not legal within one mile of a registered apiary.. I have apiaries spread out so that I have about six miles around the town covered... However, that doesnt stop a private individual from spraying right over top of my hives LEGALLY, giving me no recourse...
Enter the statement above -- I have spoken with and personally KNOW all landowners around this town, there are actually not that many.. They all have my number, they all know to call me if they are going to spray insecticides.. If they fail to call me, and I confront them, they offer to pay for the hive for forgetting. I have never accepted payment, I just ask not to forget again... I often even get calls from people IN town who want to spray their gardens..
The fact is, MOST sprays being applied now are not immediately lethal to honey bees. (orchards not withstanding. I have no clue what is sprayed on orchards.) Herbicides like Roundup or 24d dont leave dying bees outside your hive. the stuff that does that is now mostly incorporated, or systemic. Giving you time to rotate out older comb before it can become a problem.
Most issues I have witnessed personally, were from gardens. People applying SEVEN dust or other insecticides when their tomatoes are in bloom etc.. Thats when I find three hundred dead bees in front of my hive. SEVEN dust, and Bayer advanced complete insect killer being two of the worst to date. the bees LIKE the dust and fly it back to the hive as if it were pollen.... Of course, that makes finding it in the hive pretty easy.
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I have talked to the land owner not the leaser. He has some other land I can use for a yard. It is not as convenient but it is too the north of the county and out of the peaches. It is on a creek and there still should be tulip popular and blackberries and to boot he said there is a little sour wood on the creek.
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Totally garbled rant about the miss use of pesticides! Alcohol may have beeen involved :D :D . Sure wish there was a 'changed my mind button'. O:-)
I am trying to distill my rant down to; It's too easy to acquire poisons in this country (USA)!