Worldwide Beekeeping
General Discussion => Any and Every Thing => Topic started by: LogicalBee on April 25, 2015, 02:25:32 pm
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OK, if this is too exasperating to wrap our bee keeping minds around, feel free to delete this post. ;D
Otherwise, what do bee keepers think of our Olympic Hero, Bruce Jenner, wanting to become a woman?
I didn’t watch the interview with Diana Sawyer and I don’t watch the Kardashians, so maybe I don’t have all the data on this manner, but the whole thing seems very illogical to me. Then again, I’m just a simple bee keeper.
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Hi there Logic :) I would advise watching the interview, it will help you along the path of understanding people like Bruce Jenner. First off, it was very informative on transgender issues. Bruce did a very brave and humble interview with Diane Sawyer. He literally put himself in front of the world saying "I am not the only one"
"but the whole thing seems very illogical to me"
It's perfectly fine to not feel comfortable with something we don't completely understand about others, just leave it at that and continue to try and understand ~ :)
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First of all Jen, I am not directing this at you specifically, but why do I need to understand? Personally, I don't agree with it, but it is his(her) life. Really, he(she) can do what he(she) wants. But, I don't want anyone telling me I should accept it and if I don't accept it, I am wrong or that I must understand. That is what is illogical to me. I'm just tired of hearing about it.
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Thanks Tbone for your respectful reply ;)
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Personally, I think it is a mental disorder. Maybe even to the magnitude of needing time in an asylum. At 70 plus years old, 99% are impotent anyway. What good could it possibly be?
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I had a super smart department manager at my first job out of school. By super smart, I’m talking detailed technical knowledge. Those of you who have worked in the corporate world probably know that once you become a manager you don’t usually try to excel in the details anymore. He knew more technical details than anybody else in the dept, had the fancy sports car, and the commanding presence in the meeting rooms; he came across as the alpha male. Never had any doubt in my mind until a co worker told me this manager was quitting his job and becoming a she! I was completely shocked and a little creeped out to the honest. The guy was about 40 at the time.
Now that I’m older, I’m a lot less judgmental than that young kid fresh out of school. I don’t really care what other folks decide to do in their personal life as long as it doesn’t impact on my freedoms, or my wallet. If Bruce wants to become a woman, that’s fine with me and I will agree with you Jen; admitting that on national TV really takes a LOT of courage.
However I do think he/she should have had some professional counseling decades ago if he’s been feeling this way for so long. That would have been the logical approach IMO. I also wonder how much of this was brought about from living with the Kardashian crew? They all live in a fantasy world. They say happiness is just a state of mind. I tend to think a lot of things are just a STATE of mind. In this case, it may not the politically correct thing to say, but I gotta agree with iddee, but I hope he is wrong about that 99% at 70 ;D
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The interview was poignant in that it gave the story of many people who are transgender, and no one knew. Bruce was right up and honest about dressing up in his sisters clothes when he was about 7 and up. And then one day he did a brave and scary thing by dressing up in his sisters clothes and putting a scarf around his head so no one would recognize him, stepped outside and walked down the sidewalk. He told his other two wives and his currant wife Kim, of his tendencies. He also has 6 biological children of his own. He said that although he is not offended in any way by the gay community, he himself is not gay. He feels he was simply given the wrong plumbing.
All of his family including his mother love him very much and see him as a strong, good hearted, and kind man.
The interview is well worth the watch, because it also give the scientific outlooks as well.
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Dose not anyone think that to try man view of what GOD gave them to their own is wrong, what a mess man has done to himself.
Ken
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I want to be careful here. The discussion as it is going has been good and respectful, and for that I am happy.
In Vancouver BC where I met my wife, the population of the west end is at least 50% if not more, gay. I have had and continue to have many friends that are gay (We now live in a University town where diversity, both racial and sexual, is accepted and commonplace).
I find that people are people. I have met as many obnoxious gay people as I have straight folk, and as many decent ones as well. I really don't believe it is a matter of choice for folks. I often think about how hard it was for me to meet the right person to spend the rest of my life with, I can only imagine how hard it must be for people who identify with such smaller segments of society.
What Jenner did was brave, and can never take away what he has accomplished in his Olympic days. "Hero" is a little over the top, but is he brave, IMHO, yes.
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sigh...... :-\
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Having one friend raped, and another raped and murdered by gays,.... gay bashing became the order of the day when I was overseas. Hatred would have been a mild word for most of us back then.
I have since grown up a little.. and can consider at least two of them as friends, and another as a cousin. No, I dont agree with it, but I am not living their life. They are the ones that have to do that.
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I wish Bruce all the luck and happiness in the world. I don't agree with it but I am also one to not like to be told what to do and try to be the same towards other people. As long as it doesn't affect me and I don't see him all over the TV flaunting and pushing the idea that it is right off on people who don't agree. Then it will be a better world for all.
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Good post lazy, to many things going on in this old world that i don't understand? like most people know pie is round and if it's square it's probably a cobbler, and how the old folks knew how to hook wires from a brown box to a battery on Saturday night so we could listen to the Grand old Opera ?? If you've never been a man or woman, how do you know you want to be one :o. Makes me proud to be an old sprout cutter, i know how to do that. :laugh: Jack
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Makes me proud to be an old sprout cutter, i know how to do that. :laugh: Jack
Maybe Bruce could use your services! :laugh: :laugh:
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All of his family including his mother love him very much and see him as a strong, good hearted, and kind man.
Those are wonderful qualities in ANY person. Some of us are so very lucky to be able to identify with the raw materials that God gave us.
Jack, what's a sprout cutter? Gotta know.
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Doctor Brooks, hmmm, i kind of like that. Chainsaw, axe, or hoe? which do you prefer Mr. Jenner. 8) Jack
PS. Baker 12, a sprout cutter is a slang word for someone who cuts sprouts out of fence rows, hay fields,pasture, ect, to keep unwanted trees, vines and bushes from taking over. Not a fun job, but has to be done.
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Oooh! Sprout cutter. I have to do that in the back yard. Got out there any did it today otherwise it would be a jungle.
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Doctor Brooks, hmmm, i kind of like that. Chainsaw, axe, or hoe? which do you prefer Mr. Jenner. 8)
Maybe they could call Lorenna? :o
I'm sure the folks in New England and the left coast are all approving. Around here, not so much.
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who are any of us to judge another? i read this thread, and it might go away?
mental disorder?
who here are christians? don't quote me bible verses, i will quote back..... who assigned you to judge another? oops touchy subject......
my point is WHO ARE ANY OF US TO PASS JUDGMENT?
i am not. are you?
what perry said.
i am quite certain that mr. jenner in first grade or second grade or whenever when the teacher asked the class "what do you want to be when you grow up?" he did not raise his hand and say i want to change my gender.
i may not understand, but i sure as heck don't judge another, and i don't think the creator gave me the badge or privilege to do so.
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The biggest problem I have with it is that he's/she's on every channel. I've seen enough.
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don't disagree slow, i don't watch much tv but listen to a little radio. it's a private matter......with that said...........imagine if it was you the famous bruce jenner..........would you get ahead of the media? or would you remain silent and let them 'slaughter' you and your family?
hard choice. i think i would just let the media frenzy 'slaughter' me and do the best i can to get on with my life. but i am not in his shoes, or his family's shoes.
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I agree squirt, his daughters i think i heard are okay with it so that should help him out. Gay had a different meaning when i was growing up, then when i went into the service i found iy meant something else. The first i ever heard of this type of thing was a married couple in our town had a flower shop, he was born and raised here, she was what people called, an army brat (father a career military man). Well the flower shop went under, they divorced and some people knew he was homosexual, but a year later it was found out that his ex wife is a man now. :o I had a hard time trying to understand this type of thing, and still do. I try not to be judge mental, that's Gods job, but there sure is alot going on in this old world that's hard to understand ???. Jack
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When the Apple computer and Windows were first invented they had vastly different hardware. Apple used the more advanced Motorola CPUs with a flat memory model whereas Microsoft went with the Intel CPUs with its aggravating segmented memory model. The hardware differences were touted for years as why you should buy one type of computer over the other.
Then 10 years ago, Apple decided it was cheaper to use the same hardware as Microsoft. So today Apple and Windows use the same basic hardware. It’s the software, the programming, that makes one thing a Apple and another thing a Windows.
I’m not here to judge Bruce. Like I said, I couldn’t care less what others do as long as it doesn’t impart my freedoms, or wallet. But maybe there is something to be learned from observing how easily people’s minds have been programmed to believe some strange things in the past. Heck, just look at how easily some minds have been programmed to believe the crazy things ISIS does. Our brains hardware is all pretty similar, it’s how we get programmed that makes a huge difference. Bruce now seems content with his plan of action, good for him, and he does seem like a descent person. I would only hope others might consider some counseling before going through 60+ years of agony. I guess I'm more of a believer in nurture over nature in this manner; or software over hardware.
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"I would only hope others might consider some counseling before going through 60+ years of agony. I guess I'm more of a believer in nurture over nature in this manner; or software over hardware."
counseling?
some go through 60+ years of agony because of what is supposed to be the 'norm', and all those years to try to 'fit in' and struggle with it or what they may have sought out to 'straighten out' to fit in, and/our judgmental society and also struggle from those of us with judgmental minds, including parents, siblings, pastors, teachers, coworkers etc........?
we have no idea what he has been through? counseling? maybe he did? maybe he didn't? can you imagine his own personal h * l l ?
i can't, and wouldn't want to.
hardware software mix up? sorry this analogy doesn't fly by me. that's what you are comparing it to?
btw logical how does his personal struggle impart on your freedom or wallet?
nurture or nature?
am unsure of what you are saying? please explain.
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Riverbee, what Bruce does doesn’t affect my freedoms or wallet, so I don’t care. If I had to subsidize somebody switching around their hardware parts from one team to the other, then I would care; because it impacts my wallet.
Nature vs Nurture has always been a hot topic in Psychology. The question researchers have asked is what really makes a person who they are. Is it purely a genetic pre-disposition (hardware in my computer analogy), or is it learning (software in my computer analogy) after conception? I happen to believe most of whom we are intellectually is based on learning (nurture) and not nature (genetics). Just my opinion based on reading and observing. :)
http://www.simplypsychology.org/naturevsnurture.html
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seems you do logical, or you wouldn't have started this thread?
we subsidize many things in the united states.
nature vs nuture? it is a hot topic in psychology and other arenas........is it genetic? or as you say 'hardware disposition'? or is it 'learning', 'software' in your computer analogy. learning from what?
so if a spouse repeatedly cheats on and beats his spouse, what category does this fall under? is this a hardware failure or a software failure? is this genetic or learned behavior?.......... and if they are not insured who pays for this?
or a child that develops schizophrenia? hardware, software failure? genetic or learned behavior? neither parents or ancestors have the genetics for this?
or are you wearing a badge of judgment on someone who has or struggled/struggles with their identity?
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LOL. No, I started this thread because I think debate is a healthy thing. There is often something to be learned from the other side of a debate too.
If everybody agreed with everybody else there would be nothing to debate about and little need for psychology; the study of the mind and behavior.
As for the specific ratio of genetics vs learning of the behaviors you noted, I’m not God, I didn’t design the system! I don’t know. All psychology can do is research the observables and make some hypothesis.
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Riverbee, what Bruce does doesn’t affect my freedoms or wallet, so I don’t care. If I had to subsidize somebody switching around their hardware parts from one team to the other, then I would care; because it impacts my wallet.
Are you sure? If it doesn't now, it may soon. Down here in Texas, we have a bill coming up this week about whether or not Texas clergy should be forced by law to perform same sex marriages. If that doesn't infringe upon freedoms, I don't know what does.
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riverbee quote:
"so if a spouse repeatedly cheats on and beats his spouse, what category does this fall under?"
Are you saying he shouldn't? Are you saying he is wrong to do that? Are you being judgmental there?
Riverbee, we are all judgmental. We see things and form an opinion on them. There's nothing new, strange, or wrong with being judgmental. It is totally natural. The only time judgmental is wrong is when someone else's judgment disagrees with our own.
At least the cheater, beater doesn't go on national news demanding that his actions be acceptable to everyone. What is wrong and right many times is in the eyes of the observer, as many think only an idiot would play with a box full of stinging insects.
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At least the cheater, beater doesn't go on national news demanding that his actions be acceptable to everyone. What is wrong and right many times is in the eyes of the observer, as many think only an idiot would play with a box full of stinging insects.
uuhhh.........radical islamist and some of their crazy sheria laws come to mind!
Being in "neutral" never gets you anywhere, sometimes you just have to lock in the hubs!
Even though this may not get in my "wallet or freedoms" I am still entitled to my free thinking and can also be judgmental of you being judgmental about others being judgmental.
Really just more of the media desensitizing the world with all kinds of crazy things. If it is put in front of you long enough, soon enough you start to believe it is just the norm. Turned TV on last night and the Little Mermaid was on, first commercial was of a family that the dad was getting a sex change. What a joke, this should be family TV for little kids, not filled with some kind of desensitizing crap like that.
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G3 you hit the nail on the head. This is falls under the flaunting it I mentioned earlier.
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What I hope is that Mr. Jenner will get on with his life that way he wants to, and stays out of the media. That will virtually be impossible with the paparazzi. He will be the main focus for the media right now until some other story comes up that will put his story on the back burner for good... I hope... for his sake. Every human being is entitled to live a peaceful life.
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Every human being is entitled to live a peaceful life.
Gosh I guess I had better unplug the tv and the computer for good.
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Really just more of the media desensitizing the world with all kinds of crazy things. If it is put in front of you long enough, soon enough you start to believe it is just the norm. Turned TV on last night and the Little Mermaid was on, first commercial was of a family that the dad was getting a sex change. What a joke, this should be family TV for little kids, not filled with some kind of desensitizing crap like that.
Don't forget shows like Modern Family and that new show from Ellen. They're going to bombard society with shows like that until their point of view is generally accepted.
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What I hope is that Mr. Jenner will get on with his life that way he wants to, and stays out of the media.
He/she will have his/her own show about it. They're addicted to publicity.
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Two of my favorite shows Slow :)
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Two of my favorite shows Slow :)
Well, to each their own.
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I live in America, the United States of America, so I have the right to be judgmental. I have the right to my opinion. YOU, have the right to yours as well, and YOU, have the right to ignore me and mine.
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Well, it may be just me, and if so, I take the blame. It seems as if tempers are beginning to flare, and we don't want that here, so I am locking the thread. Please don't anyone start another that could be conceived as a continuance of this one. Thank You