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Beekeeping => Products Of The Hive => Topic started by: Finally Home on December 29, 2013, 04:58:13 pm

Title: Camcote
Post by: Finally Home on December 29, 2013, 04:58:13 pm
I was given a honey extractor with a galvanized tub and want to coat it to be sure I know its safe.
Wondering if anyone has ever used this.

 www.brushymountainbeefarm.com/Camcote-1qt/productinfo/615/
Title: Re: Camcote
Post by: Perry on December 29, 2013, 05:13:57 pm
I've not used it, it's not available in Canada. I do have a friend that used the equivalent up here and it did an excellent job from what I saw. I believe a lot of keeps south of the border have used it with success.
Title: Re: Camcote
Post by: iddee on December 29, 2013, 05:19:24 pm
I used it 20 years ago on a galvanized extractor. I got it from Walter T. Kelley Co. You may find shipping cheaper at one or the other to make the total price favor one.
Title: Re: Camcote
Post by: Finally Home on December 29, 2013, 05:42:46 pm
I think the shipping here is about equivalent to the camcote. 
Title: Re: Camcote
Post by: G3farms on December 29, 2013, 06:02:44 pm
You might even check a local paint supply store to see if they can order a food grade epoxy paint. Might be even cheaper. I have tried to look for cam-coat on the www but come up pretty empty on it.
Title: Re: Camcote
Post by: iddee on December 29, 2013, 06:08:03 pm
Kelley has the food grade epoxy by the same company, at 14.00.
Title: Re: Camcote
Post by: blueblood on January 01, 2014, 03:48:48 pm
Interesting.  Didn't even know they made such a product.
Title: Re: Camcote
Post by: Finally Home on January 02, 2014, 02:21:10 pm
Here's the extractor I'm wanting to coat.  No tag as far as manufacturer but can barely read on the front..  Looks like it says
BEWARE
BEEWARE
_ _ _ _ _ _

anyone ever seen one like this?? 

(https://worldwidebeekeeping.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi202.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faa304%2F79petra%2FFord%2520tractor%2520stuff%2FGarden%2FHoney%2520Bees%2FBeevac005_zps3f1483bc.jpg&hash=b5ddb4d396bf9a0f461d1151c435e8393e665dac) (http://s202.photobucket.com/user/79petra/media/Ford%20tractor%20stuff/Garden/Honey%20Bees/Beevac005_zps3f1483bc.jpg.html)
Title: Re: Camcote
Post by: LazyBkpr on January 02, 2014, 02:49:35 pm
pretty rugged looking extractor.. No plastic to be seen!!  I bet that will hold up for a long while if you can refurbish it!
Title: Re: Camcote
Post by: Finally Home on January 02, 2014, 02:57:42 pm
Thats what I'm hoping for.  Have the small plastic one now that takes someone bigger than me to hold it down while I crank  ???  This one don't move around when I crank it.
Title: Re: Camcote
Post by: LazyBkpr on January 02, 2014, 03:07:51 pm
LOL  I've always thought pouring a concrete block around an extractor would be the only thing that could make it sturdy and stable..  I'd have done it too, I just cant figure out how to replace the lower bearing and seal...
Title: Re: Camcote
Post by: Finally Home on January 02, 2014, 03:14:45 pm
What if ya ran a lag bolt with a larger washer through the plastic about 3" from the top. Run it from the inside to a stud in the wall  :-\  Should keep it still, eh??
Title: Re: Camcote
Post by: LazyBkpr on January 02, 2014, 05:32:19 pm
Yup, that or rattle stuff off the walls!!!    :laugh:
Title: Re: Camcote
Post by: G3farms on January 02, 2014, 06:58:45 pm
Is that a two frame reversible?

 
Title: Re: Camcote
Post by: Finally Home on January 02, 2014, 07:08:04 pm
Is that a two frame reversible?

Hoping one of you can tell me about it.  The term you used does sound like it could be.  The frame holders will pivot from one side to the other I'm guessing so you don't have to take them out and flip them over.  It also has 4 wire mesh pieces that slip in a groove on each side of the frame holders.  What would these be for?


(https://worldwidebeekeeping.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi202.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faa304%2F79petra%2FFord%2520tractor%2520stuff%2FGarden%2FHoney%2520Bees%2FExtractor001_zps95a0e012.jpg&hash=c9e11ef11a558dff5ec5fe9dbf1f28c50e0aa644) (http://s202.photobucket.com/user/79petra/media/Ford%20tractor%20stuff/Garden/Honey%20Bees/Extractor001_zps95a0e012.jpg.html)

(https://worldwidebeekeeping.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi202.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faa304%2F79petra%2FFord%2520tractor%2520stuff%2FGarden%2FHoney%2520Bees%2FExtractor002_zps1e67ea2a.jpg&hash=8e940becb2b39e0c5f30a5607560bec2b51d9359) (http://s202.photobucket.com/user/79petra/media/Ford%20tractor%20stuff/Garden/Honey%20Bees/Extractor002_zps1e67ea2a.jpg.html)
Title: Re: Camcote
Post by: G3farms on January 04, 2014, 09:02:23 am
Yes you have a reversible.

Put your honey frames in and crank in one direction and then crank in the other direction to extract the other side.

The screened pieces might be for spinning the honey out of cappings.
Title: Re: Camcote
Post by: BoilerJim on January 04, 2014, 11:32:49 am
That thing looks rock solid.
Title: Re: Camcote
Post by: Finally Home on January 04, 2014, 12:19:13 pm
Yes you have a reversible.

Put your honey frames in and crank in one direction and then crank in the other direction to extract the other side.

The screened pieces might be for spinning the honey out of cappings.

Thanks.  Should be much easier than my plastic 2 frame.  No flipping them over and no one else has to hold it down.  The screened pieces have a mesh that approx. 1/8" squares.  I'll probably clean them up good and use them.    Appreciate the info  :)
Title: Re: Camcote
Post by: Finally Home on January 04, 2014, 12:20:15 pm
That thing looks rock solid.

Very much so.  Wish I could find more info on it as far as manufacturer but its been painted over on the outside and can't make out what it says.
Title: Re: Camcote
Post by: skydiver on January 19, 2014, 10:21:48 pm
If I had to take a guess I would say it was made by A I Root Co. I own a 4 frame extractor with the same baskets with removable screens and hand brake at the top. A person from my bee club called it a swing frame extractor. Is the bottom flat or coned? Mine has a coned bottom with a non seal bearing that makes some noise but the run out is not bad so I just keep it greased with food grade from Dadant. To keep mine from walking when in use I tried anchoring to the wall shook wall to mush. I then installed three anchors in the floor to turn buckles to aviation cables up to the top of the extractor  now my wall is not breathing :laugh: nor is the extractor walking away. :)
Title: Re: Camcote
Post by: Finally Home on January 19, 2014, 10:47:57 pm
Thanks for the info. What are the screens for?  Mine has the coned bottom and bearing as well.
I'm going to be ordering the camcote tomorrow. I sanded the entire unit and I painted the outside yesterday.  Will be making some sort of platform for it.  Guess I'll find out the balance on it this year.  When spinning empty it doesn't move at all.  Very stable. 
Title: Re: Camcote
Post by: skydiver on January 20, 2014, 09:12:16 am
The screens I feel just support the hole face of the combs so they are less likely to be damage during the extraction process and are removable for cleaning purposes. Another thing to keep from damaging the combs is to extract the first face only hale way at a slower speed rotate to the second face extract all the way then go back to the first face and finish. My extractor runs smooth empty as well but does shake if combs are not the same weight all through the extraction process. Mine is a four frame and all four basket rotate at the same time through linkage to the brake hub. Because  the dia. is large enough for the four baskets to swing all at the same time and clear center shaft of the real I was able to build a new 20 frame radial real, love the 5 X capacity. When you run your extractor leave the gate valve open so the honey does not get deep enough to get in the lower bearing. When I dismantle the extractor for a complete clean out I place a plastic sandwich bag over it with a rubber band to keep the wash out water out of the bearing. Good luck happy extracting  :)
Title: Re: Camcote
Post by: LazyBkpr on January 20, 2014, 01:53:01 pm
Just got my quart of Camcoat today..   I hope a quart is enough, but I have my doubts since I need to coat the basket too!
Title: Re: Camcote
Post by: Finally Home on January 20, 2014, 06:02:15 pm
Skydiver,   thanks for the info.  I'm sure it does move when a tad out of balance.  Nice to dream though :laugh:  Appreciate the extra tips on the gate valve open and covering the bearing for cleaning.  Should make my job much easier.

Scott,  I think the camcote said it covers like 300-400 square feet.  I'll get mine ordered tomorrow.  Too late to do it now.  Let me know how it works for you.

Title: Re: Camcote
Post by: LazyBkpr on January 20, 2014, 06:20:40 pm
Will do!!  Still trying to find someone to media or sand blast this thing..   going to be a LOT of sanding and scraping otherwise.
Title: Re: Camcote
Post by: Finally Home on January 20, 2014, 06:38:52 pm
I used a 3M rubber finger type disc on my angle grinder.  Inside and outside in a little over an hour.  Then about 10 minutes with an abrasive scrubber pad for the inside corners at the bottom.  Wasn't too bad.  Painted alum. hammered rustoleum on the outside.  Needs a second coat yet.
 
Title: Re: Camcote
Post by: LazyBkpr on January 20, 2014, 07:06:13 pm
I do a lot of body work so the tools arent the problem with the old extractor I have. Thge problem is that it wasnt even rinsed after its last use. There is a crust 1/8th of an inch of more covering the inside AND the basket. The top o the crust is HARD, but under it is nasty softness that seems specifically designed to gum up sand paper and grinding disks. I have scraped a lot of it out already, what remains is just ugly, but i will figure something out!!!
Title: Re: Camcote
Post by: Finally Home on January 20, 2014, 07:58:18 pm
Yum - Yum.....  Understood.  Mine had a coat of greenish something inside. Came off easy though.  Also galvanized.  Wonder if you could set a couple light bulbs underneath to soften it up to make scraping a tad simpler??
Title: Re: Camcote
Post by: skydiver on January 21, 2014, 07:13:04 pm
If I had one with the build up you people have I would just dismantle load it up and go to self serve car wash then proceed with the project.  ;)
Title: Re: Camcote
Post by: Finally Home on January 21, 2014, 07:57:19 pm
If I had one with the build up you people have I would just dismantle load it up and go to self serve car wash then proceed with the project.  ;)

Not a bad idea  C:-)  Still have plenty of time for that.  Already dismantled - Hmmmmmmm
Title: Re: Camcote
Post by: LazyBkpr on January 21, 2014, 10:50:20 pm
I doubt the carwash would have much of an effect.. considering using a local shops steam cleaner though. Heat and water pressure might do the job.
Title: Re: Camcote
Post by: Finally Home on January 22, 2014, 06:07:18 am
I doubt the carwash would have much of an effect.. considering using a local shops steam cleaner though. Heat and water pressure might do the job.

Customer of mine lets me use their hotsy.  Plus its inside  :)
Title: Re: Camcote
Post by: skydiver on January 22, 2014, 07:54:46 am
"Customer of mine lets me use their hotsy.  Plus its inside "   All the better. I have put my tankless water heater, set to the max 160 deg,  and pressure washer, 3000psi, to use to clean mine up the first time. Just trying to get the thinker going and it is.  :)
Title: Re: Camcote
Post by: Finally Home on January 22, 2014, 04:07:01 pm
Ya got mine going.  Thanks  8)
Title: Re: Camcote
Post by: Finally Home on January 25, 2014, 04:45:22 pm
Well I got my can of Camcote....  Brushy Mountain website and catalog says it will cover 300-400 square feet.  Label on the can says it will cover 50 square feet (depending on surfaces) :-X :-\ :-X :-\ :o :o   That's a pretty far stretch.  Guess as long as there is enough to cover my extractor (twice) I won't complain  8)
Title: Re: Camcote
Post by: LazyBkpr on January 29, 2014, 12:13:03 am
Well I got my can of Camcote....  Brushy Mountain website and catalog says it will cover 300-400 square feet.  Label on the can says it will cover 50 square feet (depending on surfaces) :-X :-\ :-X :-\ :o :o   That's a pretty far stretch.  Guess as long as there is enough to cover my extractor (twice) I won't complain  8)

   YUP!!!   I am likely going to have to order another can.. they dont look so big when holding them in your hand.
Title: Re: Camcote
Post by: Finally Home on January 29, 2014, 06:22:34 am
My thought exactly.  Haven't opened the can yet to see if it will be ok to do in the basement or if I'll have to take it out to the shed.  Don't need to fumagate the whole house :D
Title: Re: Camcote
Post by: Jacobs on January 29, 2014, 12:56:38 pm
I can't swear to it, but I think I saw a "BeWare BeeWare" bee supply ad in old American Bee Journal volumes from around 1920.
Title: Re: Camcote
Post by: Finally Home on January 29, 2014, 03:21:32 pm
I can't swear to it, but I think I saw a "BeWare BeeWare" bee supply ad in old American Bee Journal volumes from around 1920.

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.  I'll have to do some digging. Don't think I have any Bee Journal mags but do have Gleanings in Bee Cultures mags back to 1903. 
Thanks for the heads up.
Title: Re: Camcote
Post by: apisbees on January 29, 2014, 04:26:55 pm
Use caution when using high temp water when washing out the extractors as water temp above 145 deg will melt any bees wax particles and the wax will coat the metal and keep the paint from bonding. 120 deg will dissolve any honey crystals with out melting the wax particles.
Title: Re: Camcote
Post by: Finally Home on January 29, 2014, 05:22:13 pm
Good to know.  thanks 8)
Title: Re: Camcote
Post by: LazyBkpr on January 29, 2014, 07:54:24 pm
oooh, Yeah, Thanks Apis, I hadnt even considered that!!!
Title: Re: Camcote
Post by: apisbees on January 30, 2014, 12:37:49 am
I was hoping i wasn't to late in posting and you had already done it. wax and paint dont play well together.
Title: Re: Camcote
Post by: Finally Home on February 04, 2014, 08:48:56 pm
Well I just gave it a good sanding with steel wool. 
Got 2 coats on it.  Worked really well.  No real odor and still have a lil over half a can left.  Looks real good. 
Title: Re: Camcote
Post by: keeperofthebees on February 09, 2014, 02:30:44 am
LOL  I've always thought pouring a concrete block around an extractor would be the only thing that could make it sturdy and stable..  I'd have done it too, I just cant figure out how to replace the lower bearing and seal...

You need a carpenters level, 50 fender washers, and no cement anchors(use 6" eye bolts).  Rough drill a 2" x 2" hole into the concrete maybe a fingers depth down, and buy yourself a little sack(2 lbs maybe???) of anchoring cement.  The eyebolts won't turn out on you, because the anchor cement gets between the eye!!!  Use stainless eyebolts!!! 

I kept shaking out/pulling those worthless expanding/hammer in cement anchors.  I got mad with a mini sledge, and a star drill(4" deep concrete under where a heavy milk cooler stood).  I had chiseled the concrete in 3 places with rectangular slats.  It was fun lol

Note to user:  With 30 + frame extractors use grade 8 eye bolts, grade 5 works.  High stress point/base mount/extractor hold down insurance policy beekeeper tested, wrecklessly proven.
Title: Re: Camcote
Post by: apisbees on February 09, 2014, 06:28:09 am
You will need to put the extractor up on a stand unless you have a sump pit O didn't want to drill holes in the concrete floor so I guilt a raised platform for the extractor. High enough so the discharge would go in to my double boiler multi use heat tank from there I can pump it in thru my strainer bucket into pails Bottling tank of drums. The box has 3 eyes and I have 3 long rod turnbuckles that hook over the top edge of the extractor and down to the bottom box eye bolts.
Extractor on box stand one of the turnbuckles is laying on the left side of the extractor. and 2 of the eyes are visible. The extractor is undone so blocks could be placed under so as to let the last of the honey drain out and to take it out side to wash it out.
(https://worldwidebeekeeping.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fs16.postimg.cc%2Faffgtr1c1%2F205.jpg&hash=72e76dc7418112b27de88e606e657a4a2fd04aed) (http://postimg.cc/image/affgtr1c1/)

Honey gate at the end of the extractor discharge pipe entering the double boiler multi use heat tank. This is my one tank does everything tank, honey sump, 5 gallon pail honey liquifying tank, wax melter with screw press for pressing slum-gum, candle dipping and or wax poring tank. along with my hot water tank drain hot water from the double jacket and add more cold. It has 2 outlets one off the bottom and another 2" up the side.
(https://worldwidebeekeeping.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fs11.postimg.cc%2Fkurfa94vz%2F201.jpg&hash=da3bc512d5c5a66a4f2c58acedf0858093110458) (http://postimg.cc/image/kurfa94vz/)

The honey pump is hooked up to the bottom drain and is pumped into the strainer pail and then falls into the pail for bulk storage.
(https://worldwidebeekeeping.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fs4.postimg.cc%2Fevyq68leh%2F204.jpg&hash=3372b90c419bf63ae22090e148b40ac363fcfe7f) (http://postimg.cc/image/evyq68leh/)

This is just the way i do it as I only us it a couple of days a year. I don't have floor drains or running hot and cold water near the extractor I just run a hose to the sump to fill it and supply hot and cold water.
Title: Re: Camcote
Post by: LazyBkpr on February 09, 2014, 08:27:30 am
I like the set up Apis!   I also like the bracket/mount for your electric motor on that extractor.  Hadn't occurred to me to put it ABOVE, and that will certainly save some space.
Title: Re: Camcote
Post by: apisbees on February 13, 2014, 11:36:36 am
It also doesn't block of any area of the extractor lid and allows for easier access when cleaning. the guy I bought it off of had the motor bolted to the stand floor and used a very long belt. These extractors were built at a time when most shops used a single power shaft down the middle of the shop and every thing was powered from it by belts.
Title: Re: Camcote
Post by: CpnObvious on April 10, 2014, 08:35:07 am
I just bought an old 4-frame galvanized extractor last night.  Probably overpaid, but I let the excitement of it get the better of me.  So it now appears as though I'll be having to paint it (can't take a loss on it, so may as well invest more?).  What I haven't seen in any of these posts is anything about etching primer.  On other sites I've read that it's a must.  I can sandblast it, belt-sand it, whatever... but will it "bee" enough?  What would it look like after sand-blasting or sanding?  Unless I've missed something, I don't see any re-finished ones pictured here.  Could some of you please post images of your re-coated extractors and the specific process you used and how well it appears to be holding up, and how long/how much use it's had?  Have any of you seen the need for an etching primer if sanding or sandblasting is done?  Thank you for all your help and advice.
Title: Re: Camcote
Post by: blueblood on April 10, 2014, 08:40:03 am
Welcome Captain,  like the name by the way.  Personally, I was lucky enough to procure a stainless but I am sure someone will have the right answer or direction.  Welcome to the forum!  And, you may consider heading over to the welcome page and introducing yourself.   8)
Title: Re: Camcote
Post by: Perry on April 10, 2014, 08:59:30 am
I just bought an old 4-frame galvanized extractor last night.  Probably overpaid, but I let the excitement of it get the better of me.  So it now appears as though I'll be having to paint it (can't take a loss on it, so may as well invest more?).  What I haven't seen in any of these posts is anything about etching primer.  On other sites I've read that it's a must.  I can sandblast it, belt-sand it, whatever... but will it "bee" enough?  What would it look like after sand-blasting or sanding?  Unless I've missed something, I don't see any re-finished ones pictured here.  Could some of you please post images of your re-coated extractors and the specific process you used and how well it appears to be holding up, and how long/how much use it's had?  Have any of you seen the need for an etching primer if sanding or sandblasting is done?  Thank you for all your help and advice.

First things first...... :D
Like Blueblood, I would like to extend a warm welcome to our "family" here.  :welcome:

I am trying to locate some pictures of one that has been done and as soon as I do I'll post them. It may take me a bit to locate them on my computer. I remember being impressed by it, it did a nice job.
Title: Re: Camcote
Post by: brooksbeefarm on April 10, 2014, 09:39:00 am
I have one similar to that, it's a hand crank that i got from Sears & Roebuck in the mid 60's the same time i ordered my Midnight Bees :). I bought a can of camcote several years later and it's still in the can somewhere around here?? I bought a stainless steel two frame extractor and put the galvanized one up over the shop, haven't thought about it till this post?? We used it for years with no problems? does the galvanize flak off or what's the problem? i also have a galvanized Sorghum separator in the barn that's had tons of sorghum syrup produced and ate from it. I know the old extractor is a two frame but don't remember if it's a reversible or not? I bilt a wood stand for it (it's still on it, i think?) and our 2 children would argue who's turn it was to turn it  :D. Now i'm going to have to clime up there and look it over. ??? Jack
Title: Re: Camcote
Post by: CpnObvious on April 10, 2014, 02:50:50 pm
@BrooksBeeFarm - Actually this is in pretty nice shape, especially for it's age.  The problem is the modern-day safety concern about galvanized items making contact with food.  The CamCote is simply to seal the lead & zinc away from the honey...  Allowing it to be considered food-grade.  I would definitely be very interested in knowing the specific process everyone has used to refinish their and how it looked afterward.
Title: Re: Camcote
Post by: apisbees on April 10, 2014, 03:34:27 pm
It is the acids in the honey that interacts with the galvanized coating which causes the safety concerns. Honey that stays in contact with galvanized for an extended period of time will take on a metallic taste. Also Most of the old galvanized extractors had the joints soldered together. The solder used was a 50/50 Tin/Lead mix, the lead causing a definite health safety issue when it comes to food contact.
Title: Re: Camcote
Post by: brooksbeefarm on April 10, 2014, 11:46:04 pm
My old buddy that passed away just sprayed his on with a spray gun,it just looked like a film of pastic on the inside.Jack