Worldwide Beekeeping
Beekeeping => General Beekeeping => Topic started by: tbonekel on May 01, 2015, 05:46:44 pm
-
Long story short, I have a laying worker in a nuc and one in a double deep as well. I'm really not sure what to do at this point. At first, I thought the double deep maybe had a new queen that was trying to get started, but after a week of seeing eggs, I am still seeing multiple eggs in a cell. Same with the nuc. I'm willing to let them raise a queen with a frame of good eggs, but both hives or somehow combine?
-
Sorry to hear the news. There are laying workers, more than just one.
If you can spare a frame of open brood, 1 frame a week for up to 3 weeks, you could just wait them out. I would combine the two while doing this to avoid draining another hive supplying both.
-
Ya, even Michael Bush, who advocates giving eggs and larvae to a laying worker colony says the chances are small that it works the first or second time around.
I'd shake them out some distance from the location and let them make they're own way into the other hive instead of combining. I don't like the thought of putting a perfectly good queen in jeopardy to save a hive that's got those kind of issues.
-
Alright you have a laying worker in a double deep and a Nuc.
Here's what I do to get rid of a laying worker.
First there are bees that never leave the hive, the laying worker and the nurse bees.
Here's what I do.
Take the 2 hive boxes with frames and foundation with the bees about 100 yards away.
Around a building or behind a tree helps.
Have someone with a trash bag standing by.
Take each frame out of the hive and shake the bees onto the grass, brush them off.
Make sure no bees are on the frame and place it in the trash bag so no bees can get to it.
Do every frame, shake the bees off and brush the rest off and place them in the trash bag.
That's where the helper comes in to control the trash bag.
When you get all the frames in the trash bag shake the bees off the boxes.
Go back to where the hive was originally at.
There should be alot of bees waiting for you.
Those are the foraging bees.
Set the boxes on the bottom board and replace the frames and foundation.
You should be set to re-queen the hive the next day.
What happens is the nurse bees and laying worker never leave the hive.
When you shake the off on the grass they are lost and don't know the way back to the original location.
You now have a queenless hive and can be requeened the next day.
It works every time. ;D
-
Do you put all the frames with drone brood back in the hive or replace it with foundation? Sounds like a good plan. Thanks, Jack
-
There is not that many bees in the nuc. I think I will probably shake them out as well and put the nuc in the shed.
As far as the drone brood, I think I will probably put it on the ends and let them put honey in it.
-
I had a thought which can be dangerous. On one side of this double deep, I have a single deep hive. On the other side, I have another hive that is just barely in a double deep meaning I added the second box about two weeks ago. What could happen if I split this laying worker hive and put one box on the single deep and the other box on the new double deep using newspaper combine? What happens when you combine a laying worker hive with a queenright hive?
-
You take a chance on loosing your queen. I righted one last year by introducing a queen cell though. Brood can make the difference. I have one I am going to have to deal with this week, going to shake it out and queen cell it on Friday. But I hope Ill have plenty to spare.
-
I had an aha moment yesterday, here is what I did. Perhaps it would work for you.
I placed my struggling but queen right hive, where my queenless but strong used to set. I then did a newspaper combine putting the strong hive on top with an upper enterance. The returning foragers flew into the bottom hive and were received with open arms. My hope is that when they eat through the paper the strong hive will be significantly weaker and increase the odd of a successful combine.
-
We have good luck placing the laying worker hive above a queen rite colony with a double screen board between them.
Leave them for a week to 10 days and then newspaper combine the two.
-
Ray, were these hives in the same yard? if so wouldn't the struggling hives foragers go back to the old location and make the queen right hive weaker? Maybe i'm not reading this right? Jack
-
I have sat a weaker queen right hive in the spot where I removed the laying worker hive before and let the bees fly back and go into the queen right hive to strengthen it up.
-
I think I will do that. It will mean moving the queen right only about 1 foot so it shouldn't be to bad. I think I will then do a newspaper combine. I hope I can do it today. It's supposed to start raining and continue for about 1 week.
-
Ok. I went out and broke down the laying worker hive. I slid the small queen right hive over to the new location and then stacked the laying worker hive boxes on top with newspaper separating them. Now we wait. Barely made it too. As soon as I finished, it came a short but hard rain.
-
Yes they were Jack, but it was a very weak hive. Three strips (isles?) of bees and you could count the foragers going in and out without difficulty. Heck, you could have done a census including pollen and nectar carriers. :D
I took all the usual precautions, rough handling and a flight obstruction across the opening. Moved them bright and early and waited till mid-day to do the combine. They're looking good today anyway.
Good luck, tbonekel
-
I just realized in my haste to beat the rain, I forgot to cut some slits in the paper. Will they still work their way through it?
-
Yes. I don't cut slits.
-
like iddee said tbone, yes, they will chew through the paper.
-
A lot of good suggestions and ideas. My plan is sort of a combination.
Shake the colony down to the minimum number of boxes.. the reason fo rthis is the smell, or pheromone of the brood will permeate a smaller space faster and easier.. A frame of eggs, and two weeks later a frame of eggs. USUALLY that second frame of eggs gets queen cells drawn out.. I check it a week later for those cells.. if there are none, the laying workers are still being repressed by the pheromones, and I do the newspaper combine with the nuc on top at that time...
I have found that with more hives, I have less inclination to fuss with problem hives. Taking the problem hive out in front of my bee yard and shaking the whole thing out strengthens the hives in the front line and I spent less time and resources dealing with the problem.. But... is that the best thing to do? Did I have as much FUN shaking the hive out as I would have tinkering with it and trying to make it right again?? No, probably not...
-
I have one hive that seems to have lost its queen and has laying workers-----first sign of the trouble came when I opened it up yesterday and heard them "talking" to me. The hive was not happy. Then I checked the brood----the cells had irregular brood developing and the older larvae seemed too big for the size of their cells. Looking at the scattered eggs, I found cells with more than one and they weren't placed neatly in center bottom of the cells. That nailed it!
I was thinking of giving them a frame of young brood tomorrow and then read your post. That could be ideal. Scatter the bees and let them re-settle in other hives nearby.
And then I realized------ :no: my hives are surrounded by my neighbors' homes. I don't have a large space separating my bees from my closest neighbor and they are good neighbors. Part of my success in keeping my bees "within arm's reach" of my neighbors' homes is that I keep them as calm as can be. If I start shaking them off, I risk the chances of getting them upset by the increased "aimless" activity around their yards. :o
It looks like I'll give them that frame-----or maybe I'll do a newspaper uniting.
I have till tomorrow to decide which path I'll take. ???
-
Do you put all the frames with drone brood back in the hive or replace it with foundation? Sounds like a good plan. Thanks, Jack
Yes put the brood frames back in the hives, the bees will take care of them.
-
"Tomorrow", Friday, has come and gone. I gave the family with laying workers a nice frame with young brood, some nurse bees and eggs. I'll follow them up next week and try to remember to report on the results.
-
When i find a hive with to much drone brood i go fishing 8). They make good bait. :D Jack
-
When i find a hive with to much drone brood i go fishing 8). They make good bait. :D Jack
Indeed! EXCELLENT bait!
-
After 5 days, the hives have combined. I checked in the lower box and the original queen is still laying. I didn't check in the upper box to see if there is still a laying worker. Something tells me that there probably is. It will be interesting to see what happens.
-
The most successful way I have found to deal with a laying worker is to use a queen introduction frame. Many others have had great success as well. The details and links to other successes can be found here -> http://www.beemaster.com/forum/index.php?topic=39947.0
Perhaps it is time for Karma here as well (see link above, or check out my next post (http://www.worldwidebeekeeping.com/forum/index.php/topic,3944.0.html) for details)
-
Here is an update: 4 more days later I checked the hives again today. They were in 3 full sized boxes. After checking frames, there were enough empty frames to allow me to take everything to two boxes. That's the good news. As I went through the hive I didn't see any eggs. This hive is supposed to have a queen in it. That's why I combined. I did see some capped worker brood, but I also saw about 4 to 6 queen cups with something in them. I decided to close it up and wait. This hive tries and tries to make something happen. They just can't seem to get their act together.