Worldwide Beekeeping
Beekeeping => Pests and Diseases => Topic started by: crazy8days on December 30, 2013, 07:15:47 pm
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I'm trying sooo hard not to use anything in my hives. With the big pesticide problem. People going more "organic". I personally selling lip balm at a health food store I want to keep it that way. I've read people having good success with oxalic acid vapor for varroa mites. I've read that it's organic. What are most peoples thoughts?
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My thoughts are.... Never treat before checks. If you don't have a heavy mite load, don't treat.
Back when I treated, I used FGMO and thymol in a fogger. I quit treating 5 or 6 years ago.
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So, I take it you don't treat for mites? Now, when you used a fogger, was it a propane fogger like Fatbeemans videos? I agree that checking needs to be done first. That's first. I'm wondering if oxalic can be used in a fogger?
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I don't know about "organic" but it is a natural occurring product (not synthesized), typically found in stuff like spinach and rhubarb.
I have used it in vapour form and it resulted in huge mite drops. Did it save any hives? Well, if you get a huge mite drop the damage has already been done.
If used as a "finisher" in conjunction with a "regular" mite treatment (say formic), it is great in getting most of the mites your regular treatment (95% effective say) may have missed.
It is really only effective during broodless periods, but can be utilized as a mite reduction tool I suppose.
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I can tell you that it is really cheap compared to other patent methods. Doesnt seem to give any queen mortality or brood damage but it wont go through the cappings like formic acid will. You can do it at any temperature above 40 F. It doesnt accumulate in the wax either. It is approved in Canada but in the US you have to be a bit creative in what you say you are doing when you use it, lol! Here is what my vaprorizer looks like.
(https://worldwidebeekeeping.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fs25.postimg.cc%2Fw0wdo94kr%2FOX_VAP.jpg&hash=140c28d9c01b567af2b826aa91782e96effa3148) (http://postimg.cc/image/w0wdo94kr/)
It can also be disolved to about 3% in a thin sugar and water solution and sprayed or dribbled between frames of bees. No a fogger wont work!
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Yes, I used a propane fogger when I treated. NO, I don't treat any more.
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Iddee- why don't you treat with oxalic anymore?
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http://www.guilfordbeekeepers.org/community/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=1590
Wayne Rich, of Sophia, NC began beekeeping sometime in the 1960's as a hobby to have honey for his family and pollinate the family farm. He only knew what the older local beeks taught him and what he learned from experience. He never medicated a hive in any way. He had the normal die off and the normal swarm catches that were common in those days. By 1987, he had approx. twenty five hives. When the mites showed up he lost all but one hive. That hive survived and begin casting swarms. Some lived, some died. In 2001, Wayne had 5 strong hives. He gave me a swarm from one of them that year. I placed that colony in a yard by itself and began to catch swarms, make splits, use swarm cells to start nucs, and use eggs and larva from that hive to bait trap outs. Of all the colonies I have started from that hive, and it has been many, none have ever been reported to have died from mites. None, as far as I know, have ever been treated. When I let someone have one, I asked to have them marked and traced, not treated, and report back if any ever died from mites. None have ever reported to me that they died from mites.
Wayne passed away Dec. 26th, 2008. Since that time, I have promoted these bees as "Wayne's bees". In 2010, Larry Tate, of Tate's Apiaries accepted a colony of Wayne's bees and began to graft from them. He is also going treatment free with them. So far, he is happy with their production, temperament, and longevity. He has not had any die from mites.
Larry Tate is now selling Wayne's bees queens.
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I can tell you that it is really cheap compared to other patent methods.
That's precisely why you won't see it marketed by a manufacturer. There's no money in it.
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I think the inspectors are looking the other way though. Certainly it is known that it is being used and that it is accepted application in most of the rest of the world.
It is more a technicality in labelling process rather than a consideration that it is any hazard to consumers. I think there is a subtle difference between forbidden, and not approved.
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Iddee, I like the idea of building a better bee. But how do you know is the bees have mites if you don't do some kind of testing, like a sticky board. I think.. I remember Glenn saying that he let a hive go with mites as a test to see how long the hive could go. He estimated 6,000 mites in this hive. His quote "They seem to be doing just fine"
But I just can't stand by and let mites drill holes in my bees anymore than I could let my kids walk around with leaches all over them.
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The first swarm Wayne gave me died in it's tenth year. It did NOT die from mites, but from swarming and the new queen never made it. If it's still strong after 10 years of no treatments, why should you bother checking.
Besides, I have our state inspector check my hives annually for anything he/she might find. I get a mite count each year from them.
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Crazy, I was also looking to purchase Oxalic Acid fogger. RJ Honey gave a demo while making candy boards back in October and I was sold on it. However, after listening to Michael Bush at the fall IBA conference I have now decided against it. I am not as intelligent in beekeeping as many of the long time B-keeps we have on here and many can probably refute Mr. Bush's wisdom on this topic but his philosophy is that if we treat the mite problem, we win the battle but we may loose the war. By treating - we and our bees get instant gratification but are we preventing the bees from developing the genetics to survive this problem as they have done themselves for thousands of years without our help?
PS: I AM NOT ANTI CHEMICAL or SAYING anything bad to those that use the fogger. Heck, I may loose patience and use it myself if I keep loosing all my stock each year. This is just something I have been thinking about. :-\
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What works for one may not work for others. MB raises bees, so has no problem replacing deadouts. Therefore, for him, he is correct.
A newbee with 2 hives that he has 600 dollars invested in and it will cost him another 200 to replace them, it is not correct. He needs to treat, then requeen with resistant stock folks like MB have developed.
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There seems to be some suggestion that even very mite resistant bees (in their own locale) might not be so when moved to a different area that has a different strain of mite or where the mites are hosting a different background of virus contagion. The saying that "all beekeeping is local" seems very true from a lot of different aspects.
I took the path of being quite cautious about mites but even so one hive almost got over run before I twigged.
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I have long suspected there is parallel between breeding for resistance for foul brood and the current attempts to breed resistant from varroa into the honeybee. in genetic/evolutionary speak this is a decision about whether you are willing to accept the APPROXIMATE or ULTIMATE solution to the situation < one does need to reconfirm in your mind that the ultimate ultimate solution in the natural world has often been extinction of a species.
if this analogy holds then anyone wanting to breed a better bee has to have a lot of patience and must be willing for a lot of bees to die in the process. testing and time become the tools of this endeavor. since most folks on this board simply do not have the number of hives to lose in this process then some intermediate strategy is likely a better choice. that is... once you have obtained some number of hives constantly test and then divide you hives into those that display resistance and those that do not. treat one and not the other. use one for honey/pollination or whatever and treat and use the other for selection for the next generation of bees.
I should add here that some of us are just very very lucky. I for one simply live close to some folks who began rearing resistant honeybees some years back and as luck would have it went to them when I began keeping bees this time around. really at the time I knew little of the varroa but do feel extremely fortunate to have obtained packages from them when I started up and to have continued to buy queens from them yearly... each year they do seem to get a bit hardier and in the process made a couple of very good friends along the way.
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as Crofter has suggested above location can make huge differences in outcomes and micro ecological factors will effect a lot of species including the honeybee*. as far as I know there are several variation in the types of varroa mites but only one of these has been shown to be economically detrimental to the honeybee.
*these factors should not be minimized and at least I suspect from past outbreaks of pathogens that a lot of 'other factors' can and have killed honeybee now and in the distant past. I at least get the notion/suggestion/hint at the front side of any and all exposure to a new pathogen it ALWAYS gets the blame when an individual hive dies.
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I have been working toward the distant goal of treatment free, have a couple of feral hives that I dont treat, and have ordered some VSH/cross queens.. but I think the slow process of selection will all be akin to weeing up a rope.. Simply ordering proven queens and installing them solves the struggle. I think this year will be dedicated to expanding, and next spring were going to be putting some new queens into the hives.
The thought of no more struggle with Varoa is particularly appealing.
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Crofter- what do you mean by twigged?
And that's what happened to my one and only hive this last fall. I've had casualties these last three years and finally this year I got a strong healthy hive, two deeps high. I can't remember what clued me in, but I started asking how to treat for mites. Long story short, I chose formic acid sticky strips, and had a 2,000 mite kill. I was astonished. And as long as I have only two hives, i believe I will probably have to treat because I won't have any back up hives. My choices will be oxalic acid vaporizer twice a year as a rule.
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Jay bird; "Crofter- what do you mean by twigged?" Alerted Like a deer from the snapping of a twig.
I had hives on screened bottoms and one of the 6 was lagging a bit from the start. Mite fall did not seem to be much higher than the others but It just was not building or drawing much wax. What I finally twigged to is that some brood was being hauled out. Empty cells amongst the capped brood was being relaid with fresh eggs. Real shotgun or spotted laying pattern. We checked some samples for nosema but that was inconclusive. I treated with Hopguard strips and got fairly high mite drop. After about a month of weekly treatments they started picking up and the laying pattern was solid. I had to feed but the colony wintered well and was up to measure with the others next spring.
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I think twigged might be a Canadian expression we are not familiar with in the states. Can you define it, please?
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I think twigged might be a Canadian expression we are not familiar with in the states. Can you define it, please?
Iddee, if you step on a dry twig while you are waiting for a deer to come in range of your .22RFM you will soon know the deer twigged to you! He became aware of you.
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Alerted ~ Got It, thanks Crofter
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twig/twigged:
"understand or realize something"......... ;D
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I would have to say that the OA is just about free. The time to do it though is not the time to check for mites. I started doing some OA drip about the first week in December but chickened out because it was so dang cold. I was actually going to do only one of two hives in a couple of locations and see if it had a side by side noticeable effect.
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Side by side comparisons, always a couple variables, but hey, you have to start somewhere. I did the same thing with winter wraps. Tried both and came to my own conclusion! That's how we learn best. ;)
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I think there might be more risk of chilling bees by doing OA drizzle in cold temperatures than there is with vaporization. Vaporization can be done without opening the hive at all and if you plan for it, even when wrapped.
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True but right now I am mountain camp sugar on everything so now I have no way of doing the drip. Woke up today and it was 50! Now I wish I could remove the newspaper and sugar and do the drip. Not like I am home anyway.
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some good information here about vaporizing oxalic... of course the real concern for me with this method is the nasty fumes you generate and the potential health aspect of this process to the beekeeper < in this case me... for anyone even considering vaporizing oxalic a full face mask like a painter might use is absolutely essential equipment....
perhaps we could get some discussion of how and when folks might consider oxalic as a dribble as an alternative varroa treatment? since oxalic is an acid what kind of safety items are necessary. any + or - experience is always of considerable value.
any number of items including oxalic would look to be items folks might want to know about if they were considering some form of a IPM program.
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I attached a document from a University in Turkey describing treatment and results with OA.
If we treat mites, we generally like to knock them down before the fall brooding period before they raise the bees that will overwinter. That is about mid August here.
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I attached a document from a University in Turkey describing treatment and results with OA.
If we treat mites, we generally like to knock them down before the fall brooding period before they raise the bees that will overwinter. That is about mid August here.
Are you using dribble method or vaporization?
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We have did the dribble on a friends Italian bees that had been in the pumpkin patch in the Mountains of NC. It doesn't take long unless your boxes are stacked high. We did it in Nov. and had good results with mite drop. He works his bees hard in the blueberries and pumpkins. Glad we do not have to treat Wayne's Queens hives...... yet.
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Dribble is effective, the only downsides are having to crack the hive open to get at the bottom deep, and the fact it is a 2 man job.
By the way Larry, I see that was your first post. Thanks for jumping in with your experience. :yes:
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We were thinking of using the green drone foundation in the hives this year for mite control. Does anyone else use this and would one frame per hive be enough if you rotate it out on a regular basis..........
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Next time I see you folks the next one (drone frame) is on me, that way you can rotate one in and freeze the one you just took out.
Call it a late Christmas present. ;)
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We were thinking of using the green drone foundation in the hives this year for mite control. Does anyone else use this and would one frame per hive be enough if you rotate it out on a regular basis..........
It's my understanding that timing is very important in using drone comb to combat mites. Leave it in too long and you'll have a mite explosion.
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I ordered a Varox Vaporizer and the OA Crystals this afternoon.. I hope this stuff is half as good as claimed in what I have read.. I dont think I will throw away the Hopguard just yet, but looking forward to seeing the results.
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You can bee successful with dribbling down to -3ºC = 26.600ºF without any problems.
I wouldn't use the green plastic frame, better to use an empty frame and let them build freely, this is better beecause more Young worker bees are involved and the mites are more likely to bee on them.
The third frame in a ten frame box early in the spring build up as a drone frame catches mites successfully.
Cut out and freeze the capped drone brood, save and feed to birds in Winter or give to chickens that go nuts with delight and love eating larvae. ;D
mvh Edward :P
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Drone frame cut out and dribbling is the standard way to treat mites in sweden and i works well.
mvh Edward :P
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I have only heard of one person claim bad results but he double dosed. I does take three, weekly doses unless you catch them when there is no capped brood then one shot does the trick. I like the idea that it will not accumulate in honey or hive components.
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I have only heard of one person claim bad results but he double dosed. I does take three, weekly doses unless you catch them when there is no capped brood then one shot does the trick. I like the idea that it will not accumulate in honey or hive components.
Double dosing is not recommended, yes you can't have any capt brood or it won't work well.
mvh Edward :P
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I sent over a picture to my brother in Alaska, he told me he was almost done and cut the dish into the glow plug hole. I hit some hives that was probably too dang cold to do it.
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As I understand it, vaporizing in the cold wont hurt the bees, but the vapor may not penetrate the cluster, so is not really effective....
This is the vaporizer I got, the Varrox.. looks pretty good, but is in need of a handle. Other than that, it feels nice and rugged.
(https://worldwidebeekeeping.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fs28.postimg.cc%2Fr7n3ltht5%2FDSCF0053.jpg&hash=144c931060bb3c9ddfad5c5b30e3a85120ad3ba3) (http://postimg.cc/image/r7n3ltht5/)
(https://worldwidebeekeeping.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fs22.postimg.cc%2Ffxzec6f65%2FDSCF0054.jpg&hash=bb9732d11415a05e9f6414840607ff675d023568) (http://postimg.cc/image/fxzec6f65/)
I plan on picking up a timer at Radio shack that I can set for 2.5 minutes. That way I can turn it on and be preparing the next hive or reading WWBK while it works without worrying about it staying on too long. I do like the ability to dunk it to cool it off so the process is a little speedier.
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Lzy; my concern is that if they are clustered it is because the temperature in the hive demands it. The OA vapor will break up the cluster somewhat and I would worry about them not getting reorganized on stores. I have done them quite early in spring and late at fall though, but I did not think they were clustered yet.
Probably wouldn't hurt to hit them a bit early in the day while most were not out foraging yet but some warmer hours yet to come.
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Lazy, that's the same one I got a few months ago. I put a sticky board under a few hives in August and had an average of 20 mites/day drop. After I vaporized the first time, I couldn't believe the mite drop. I didn't attempt to count them but there must have been several hundred.
I vaporized three times a week apart, with the mite numbers getting lower each time.
It may just be me, but my bees look better now than they ever have. And they are building up like crazy. It looks like I'll either be making splits at the end of February or they'll do it themselves.
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Crofter.. From the heat or from the vapor itself?
Thats good to hear RC.. I have high hopes this will make a life a little easier!
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I have the same vapourizer (Varrox) and if I'm not mistaken the literature says that it is effective at 4 C and above.
LazyB, my handle is the same length, I think that's all you need?
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I'm sure the length etc is fine Perry, I was thinking more along the lines of a handle to protect the cord where it goes in. I can see myself pushing on those cords sliding it in or taking it out of the hives. ;D Shooting sparks and screaming like a girl would only amuse the wife to no end.. cant have that!!!!
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Just get yourself a smoker without the guard, that'll toughen ya up! (don't ask me how I know this). :-\
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Lzy; I dont know which would likely be more likely to stir them the heat or the vapor. At 3C or higher they would be mobile and nimble enough to regroup. My vision was treating them when they were fully clustered and hive conditions too cold to properly get back into cluster; I guess I am thinking my climate not yours! :laugh:
I want to make another vaporizer about as shallow as the one you and Perry have. Mine is on the tall side and brings it up closer than I like to the frame bottoms. I can make do by shoving a pair of tapered shims in but I want to hit them before I unwrap them. Wont be for another near two months though.
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I think I understand what your getting at, and concur, but I have read in a few places that the vapor wont penetrate the cluster when they are clustered tightly.. It is/was my intention to wait until they broke and were starting to move.. so the question I would ask is what do the bees benefit if you treat them while they are clustered?
Thanks Crofter!
Scott
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Lzy; the fog is clearing here! I think I see your line of thought now. I dont have any idea how quickly the bees could break cluster and so get reasonably spread out for equal exposure to the vapor.
I think some of the OA effectiveness is the film deposited on hive components. Correct me here, but I think the mite fall ramps up to max on about day 3 after vaporization; I wonder how much of the bees coat of OA is direct contact with the initial fog and how much is picked up from the combs and spread around by grooming it off each other?
I wonder how much does commencement of brood rearing overlap with coming out of or breaking cluster? Is there a tradeoff in pushing treatment to one side or the other of the window of opportunity?
Sorry, no answers, just more questions! :laugh:
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I can't imagine an easier way to treat. Quick and easy and the bees don't seem to mind it at all. About 3 minutes in the hive, plug the hole for 10 more and you're done.
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Sorry, no answers, just more questions!
LOL, well, were in the same boat, hope you brought a fishing pole. I have the beer!
As I understand it... the OA re crystallizes in tiny tiny crystals that cover pretty much everything. It doesnt bother the bees, but the mites are devastated by it. The crystals are on pretty much everything, so long as the bees are not clustered, preventing the vapor/OA from coming into contact with more than the outside of the cluster. The mites come in contact with it because its "everywhere" Including on the bees...
Researching sugar atm, but I will get on this after and see what I can find out for details....
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Researching sugar atm, but I will get on this after and see what I can find out for details....
Sugar in your vaporizer? I spilled some on a stove burner the other day........ I dont know whether it would kill mites or not but it made the queen bee a bit miffed! Let us know how you make out with your research. :laugh:
The OA vaporization seems to be working very well for me. I can catch them when they are broodless quite easily in the fall but dont know whether I can in the spring. If not broodless then will have to go the three, weekly sessions but they seem so little affected I dont think it is much of a worry. Not so sure the supposed harm to the hive microflora is a real, or a boogyman effect! :-\
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The bees have an exoskeleton this helps the withstand the strain of the OA treatment.
The OA corrodes the soft tissue parts of the mite, mouths, feet, eyes, and joints.
Dont overdose or the the bees will eventually bee harmed.
mvh Edward :P
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..........since most folks on this board simply do not have the number of hives to lose in this process then some intermediate strategy is likely a better choice. that is... once you have obtained some number of hives constantly test and then divide you hives into those that display resistance and those that do not. treat one and not the other. use one for honey/pollination or whatever and treat and use the other for selection for the next generation of bees....
This reminds me of an article I read about the 'Soft Bond Method.' It makes a lot of practical sense. :)
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When treating with OA how long after treatment would you expect to see mite drop?
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24 hours and you will be amazed at what you find. It works immediately!
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Lazy ""I think I understand what your getting at, and concur, but I have read in a few places that the vapor wont penetrate the cluster when they are clustered tightly.. It is/was my intention to wait until they broke and were starting to move.. so the question I would ask is what do the bees benefit if you treat them while they are clustered?""
I have this to offer. I did an ox treatment on Jan 3rd, bees Definately tightly clustered. Waited a couple of weeks and checked sticky board, 1000 mite kill. I've been checking the board every week since. No mites.
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Thank you Jen.. interesting that you had that big of a drop.. maybe the vapor does get into the cluster a little?
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I was surprised as well, but then not. But that's why I use a screen bottom board smeared with vegetable shortening to check for mites. If I find 10 mites in one week on the board, I multiply it x 10. 100 mites is only 10% of what is still on the bees up in the hive.
This is somewhat the same formula that Randy Oliver suggests.
As soon as I can get a long 65 day to tear down the hive and see if there is any brood, I will know if I can do one more OA treatment before the queen starts laying.
But at this point in feeding my bees, and they are already going thru one winter pattie a week. I think she's already going for it.
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Treated seven hives with OA on 2-13 and the biggest mite drop was 48 on one hive all others were less than 10 . These are all second year hives the hive with the biggest drop is three years old . I used the vaporizer one minute thirty seconds all OA was varorized removed and kept hives closed for ten minutes either i did something wrong or i don't have much of a mite problem. Any ideas?
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Rod- That's pretty much what we did in January and we got a 1,000 mite drop. Count your blessings.
Wondering tho, did you have a reason to want to treat? like maybe a sticky board with mites on it. Or, was it a prophylactic treatment?
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2 grams of OA for 2.5 minutes for a double deep brood chamber is what my instructions call for.
I have ONLY read about its use and watched all the vids I could find, I have never done it, so I haven't a lot to go by Rodmaker..
Seems like it vaporized very quickly at a minute and a half. There is a warning about it getting TOO hot and becoming Formic acid and not permeating the hive like it should.
Were the entrances blocked and left blocked the prescribed amount of time? I am going to assume you did all of it correctly since you dont seem the flighty type, so the only thing I can think of is the rapid vaporization time... Wish I could help more!
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Jen had one hive abscond and only thing i could think of after the advise i was given was that i might have had a mite problem so i treated my hives to be on the safe side. Lazy the package my vaporizer came in said one minute was all that was needed to vaporize the oa but i had to use one and a half minutes to vaporize all. I did a test run outside a hive so i could time it . I did leave the hives closed up for ten minutes as directed . I will continue to watch mite drop closely and if i see more than i have in the past i will treat again after the full seven days from last treatment. Maybe i just got lucky and my bees are taking care of the mites on their own.
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If that's all you had for a mite drop after treating with OA, you didn't have that bad a problem.
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Rod ""Maybe i just got lucky and my bees are taking care of the mites on their own.""
Sounds like you did it the right way. Just keep a check on the sticky board every couple of weeks. You'll be fine.
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Agreed! Nothing you did wrong.
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I quit closing up my hives a couple years ago after I compared drops between unclosed hives and closed hives. I still have good success. I run the vaporizers until they are empty and vapor is coming out of the upper entrances. My results are pretty good.
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Crofter- I came so close to loosing my one and only hive last fall. I took the advice of a friend and put a plastic realty board smeared with cooking shortening under my screen bottom board. Alas, my hive was dropping close to 80 mites A DAY!! And I was seeing the Deformed Wing Virus on them. Yikes and Panic! Long story short, I used Formic Acid Quick Strips. Mites Gone 95%. Then a couple of months later, I used an oxalic acid treatment. Not a single mite in over a month. I like that going into spring :) 8)
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:goodjob:
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I broke down and bought the Heilyser oxalic vaporizer. Talking to another local keep he said I need to hit them now. 2 things i wonder if I need to do.
1. Do I need to remove pollen patties before I treat?
2. Queen is laying, so do I need to treat for the next 3 weeks?
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Are your counts high, or are you treating because the other local keep is?
Don't know about the pollen patties for sure, but I wouldn't think they would pose a problem.
I've never used Oxalic in the manner you are describing, I only use it when they are broodless.
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OA is naturally occuring. I treated today in fact. Have at it!!!
Block the entance and let em have it. You will be amazed at how UN concerned they are..
If thee is brood, I treat once a week, three times in a row.
Video here if you scroll down to it.
http://outyard.weebly.com/treatments.html
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Perry, I'm going by one of my dead hives. There were mites still attached to bees, BB was covered and dead mites in open cells. I know not every hive will be like this. I want to make splits this season and want low mite count.
Thanks Lazy for the info!
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You won't regret the OA treatment Crazy! It's just pretty darned cool! I treated in January, got a 1,000 mite kill. No mites since! I love it!
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Oxalic acid doesn't kill the mites that are in your brood, it only kills the mites that are in the open. If you want to treat varroa when having brood use apiguard based on thymol or thymol strips. read instructions for them carefully and follow them exactly otherwise the treatment won't be effective enough. Oxalic acid is very effective when you make artificial swarms without closed brood, it kills nearly all the mites. If you add a frame with OPEN drone brood you get pretty darn close to a varroa free hive :)
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Hiya Vosse- I haven't tried the products you have suggested yet. Mite Away Quik Strips is what I use if I have to treat a hive with capped brood. Otherwise my choice is Oxalic Acid.
And regardless of what choice is used for mites, follow the directions!Don't apply any treatment 'your way'. Stay true to the application process suggested by the company.
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I think the thymol (they're called thymovar) strips are basically the same as your mite away strips :) as for the oxalic acid more then 1 usage per bee life is something they don't take very well.. :( so it's not a good treatment when the hive has closed brood since most of the mites are in there. We have something called ant acid (that's the direct translation, don't know the English word for it.) You get it in 65 and 85% concentration afaik and that does kill the mites in the brood but you can't have supers on if you want honey out of it... its also legally not allowed to use but it is tolerated by the authorities. I'm going to try beevital hiveclean, hopefully that gives good results.
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I think the thymol (they're called thymovar) strips are basically the same as your mite away strips :) as for the oxalic acid more then 1 usage per bee life is something they don't take very well.. :( so it's not a good treatment when the hive has closed brood since most of the mites are in there. We have something called ant acid (that's the direct translation, don't know the English word for it.) You get it in 65 and 85% concentration afaik and that does kill the mites in the brood but you can't have supers on if you want honey out of it... its also legally not allowed to use but it is tolerated by the authorities. I'm going to try beevital hiveclean, hopefully that gives good results.
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I assume you are talking about a dribble or mist application of OA.. I can't comment because I have never used those methods..
Using it in vapor form has no ill effect on the bees whatsoever, but also does not affect mites in closed cells. so two or three applications a week apart is necessary, but can be done without any side effects and repeated as often as is necessary.
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I Think it's formic acid that also kills mites inside brood cells.
mvh Edward :P
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When ants bite, they inject formic acid, so ant acid would likely translate to formic acid.
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HCOOH is how they describe the chemical compound
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Formic_acid
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When ants bite, they inject formic acid, so ant acid would likely translate to formic acid.
You mean like Tums or Rolaids? :laugh:
(sorry, couldn't help myself!)
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Formic it is :)