Worldwide Beekeeping
Beekeeping => Beekeeping 101 => Topic started by: Jen on August 14, 2015, 12:09:29 am
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Checked Dadant, Glory Bee, and Mann Lake, and there are no medium nuc boxes or kits for sale there. So I'm guessing that we should build our own?
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I've never seen them but you could always order the standard depth nucs and cut them down on a table saw. I don't treat the wood in my deeps because I don't like exposing the bees to more chemicals than necessary. The downside is that the bottoms of my deeps will rot on 4-way pallets after 7-8 years. When they are no longer useful, I cut them to 7 5/8 honey supers just when they rot a little on the bottom. Works good and you could do the same with deep nucs. Once upon a time, I planned to use 7 5/8 boxes for everything since they weigh less. The plan was to use 3 for brood boxes and use the same size supers. Almond growers in CA want bees in 9 5/8 boxes so I now run 2 deeps and use 7 5/8 only for supers.
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Hi Chip :) I am working towards having only medium hive and super boxes. It's a lifting thing. So it makes sense to me to have medium nuc boxes. I know I can make a nuc box with a medium box by using a follower board, but we are having a bit of fitting issues with the follower board.
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The plan was to use 3 for brood boxes and use the same size supers. Almond growers in CA want bees in 9 5/8 boxes so I now run 2 deeps and use 7 5/8 only for supers.
This is so when they send the hive quality inspector to inspect the hive for strength it is easier to compare the hives to the established standard, and hives from other beekeepers.
The same issues can arise when with nuc sales. A deep and Dadant nuc are priced the same by many beekeepers, yet there is 37% less cells in a Dadant. In my opinion a Dadant nuc should be priced 30% less than a deep nuc of the same number of frames. To me it is like being sold a 3lb package and then only being supplied with 2lb of bees. the build up will be compounded slower. Both the Dadant and the deep will expand across the super at the same rate, but by the time the 2nd super is added the Dadant brood super will have 35% less bees and brood.
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This may be a dumb question Jen, but why don't you use a standard super AS your nuc?
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Hey Jen
Brushy Mt. sells these
http://www.brushymountainbeefarm.com/5-Frame-6-5_8-Complete-Nuc/productinfo/682/
Tim
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I am going to hijack Jens thread a little here.
Chip uses a super that is referred to as 3/4 depth although it is actually a 4/5 depth when compared to a deep.
HISTORY LESSON.
Back in 1852 when Langstroth invented and patented his removable frame hive with the frames being removed from the top, verses some of the European designs of the period that removed the frames from the side. He used standard dimension lumber in his hive design. At that time and up until the early 1960 the dressed size of a 1X10 was 7/8" X 9 5/8". In his quest to provide the perfect manageable size hive to meet the needs of the bees and the beekeeper, he settled on a design of 2 - 10 frame, 9 5/8" deep supers. To this day his size space requirement for the bees have remained unchanged. In 1862 Charles Dadant was trying to improve on Langstroth's hive design and trying to keep the bees in a single brood super, His design was a single 12 frame 11 5/8" super made from a standard 1X12 of the time. Dadant's jumbo super size never caught on, although jumbo size foundation was available and stocked by bee supply stores into the 1990's. Both the 7 5/8" and the shallow 5 11/16" supers used standard width lumber at the time so were obvious choices for super sizes. The problem with these sizes. There wasn't that much of a difference in weight with the 7 5/8" super. And the 5 11/16" was to small and requires twice as many supers. Dadant's 6 5/8 was introduced into beekeeping between 1921 - 1946 when Charles 3 sons had taken over the company. The 6 5/8 super was a special custom size with 3 Dadant's equaling the height of 2 of Langstrothe's deeps. It has become the leading standard super for honey storage and is also becoming widely used for brood supers as well amongst the hobbyist and older beekeepers with bad backs. With the new standards in lumber widths now a 1X10 is dressed to 9 1/2" and with additional shrinkage after planing the boards can end up being only 9 1/4" wide. Do to this, lumber of the next width needs to be purchased so it can be ripped down to the desired size, or the lumber special ordered custom milled to the desired super size specification.
In the last 10 years the 8 frame super is becoming more popularity with the new beekeeper thus also reducing super weigh. These can presents more of a challenge as the brood chamber can become congested faster and sooner, and more beekeeper manipulation may be needed.
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Hey Jen
Brushy Mt. sells these
http://www.brushymountainbeefarm.com/5-Frame-6-5_8-Complete-Nuc/productinfo/682/
Tim
Looks like just the ticket!
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Well now, an eight frame medium is just three frames larger than a five frame nuc. You could put a follower board in the five frame nuc and remove it later and the bees would be in a standard eight frame medium hive. When the bees filled all eight frames it will be the almost exact equivalent of a full five frame nuc.
This would eliminate the need for special boxes.
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Yep, Brushy Mountain.. I think.... Pigeon mountain and or one of the other smaller companies also sells them...
Your hubby knocked together your boxes, cant sweet talk him into making the nucs Jaybird?
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No need to buy a 5 frame medium nuc.
Just buy a 8 frame medium box and add a internal frame feeder.
Makes a nice 6 frame medium nuc that can be used for something else. :yes:
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Tbone and Scott ~ I do have my two nucs in 10 frame meds. It's the follower board that is the problem, doesn't fit right. Haven't done this before. I'll be taking pics on Sunday for show and tell, then, I'll be up for more discussion.
Great thread to everyone... learning learning learning :) 8)
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As long as you only have one nuc in the hive body (not a dbl nuc in one super) then it doesn't mater if the follower board doesn't fit tight. If you do put 2 nucs in a single super a little foil duct tap will fix a bad follower board
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Duct tape... I wish I was the inventor of duct tape ;)
Apis... you mean... I can put two 5 frame nucs in ONE med super? just so there is a follower board between them? what a novel idea
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Hi Jen. I don't think that there would be enough room for 10 (2 groups of 5) frames, plus a follower board, in a standard Langstroth hive body. But then Momma didn't call me son because I was so bright! Ted
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Ever seen a ten frame deep queen castle. 4-2 frame nucs. The concept is the same ;)
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Never done it, but yes, you can keep 2 Nucs in one box. You'd probably want to have one 4 frame and one 5 frame with a 3/4" follower board in between. You wan the entrances at opposite corners on the same side, or better yet, one on the front and the other on the back. In my oppinion buying a sheet of 1/2" plywood and making up 4 Nuc boxes is a worthwhile investment. I only do the follower board stuff for a short time, when I'm rearing queens in the spring and I can use supers that aren't on yet.
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if you 1/8 or 3/16 paneling there is room. but have to make sure the bees can't get from one side to the other. Mobile home wall covering, 70's down stairs rec room decor. The stuff that is made with 3 layers of mahogany plywood will stand up better than the partial board stuff. A saw cut 3/8 deep and wide enough to slide the follower board in works best, although you will cut into the hand hole if the super has them.I have found level with the top and bottom of the super. With a stick the height of the bottom board sides and back down the center. If you make 2 half width inner covers you can keep one closed while looking at the bees in the other side.And the entrance needs to be on diffe3rent sides if you are using it to mate queens.
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http://www.outyard.net/follower-board.html
If your follower board is narrow, mneaning made of 1/4 inch luan or similar materlial you can get two five frame nucs out of one box. If you ue a 3/4 inch bord you get one five frame and one four frame nuc out of a single ten frame box.
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The 4 and 5 frame nucs seperated by a 3/4 inch follower board was the setup I pictured. Never even dawned on me to use paneling or 1/4 inch underlayment in place of the 3/4 board. Momma was right! Ted
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I like the thin paneling the thinner the better cause I cut a slot to slide it into and if they are commercial made boxes with the hand holds the cut comes through the hand hold. if you use anything wider than 1/8" if you pull the divider to unite or the nuc has expanded and needs more space, anything wider than an 8th of an inch will leave a bee entrance.
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I'm understanding and visualizing all this info.. I like the idea of consolidating two nucs with cheap paneling. It seems to me as well, that the two nucs right next to each other in the winter would be a plus for retaining heat. I'll be thinking about this...
For now I simply need to remember to check them every Sunday...
Excellent thread!
Thanks everyone :)
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Here is the brushy queen castle. Pull the board and run what size nuc you wish. Or make your own.
You can use chloroplast election type signs for dividers.
http://www.brushymountainbeefarm.com/Medium-Queen-Castle/productinfo/736/