Worldwide Beekeeping

Beekeeping => Beekeeping 101 => Topic started by: Jen on January 06, 2014, 03:13:23 pm

Title: Smoker - how to light and keep it going
Post by: Jen on January 06, 2014, 03:13:23 pm
I have a nice smoker from dadant, got it off of ebay. I think it's a good one, but I have trouble keeping it lit?
Title: Re: Smoker - how to light and keep it going
Post by: Walt B on January 06, 2014, 03:27:38 pm
Well, here's what I do...and some of this information came from tec's beekeeping class a few years back. I mentioned that if there is an arsonist on the loose, the police won't come looking for me.  :D What was suggested is:

1. Start with shreds of paper, not a ball (I use stuff from a shredder)
2. Light the paper and add a small amount of fuel (I use wood shavings from a planer)
3. Use the bellows until the fuel is lit
4. Tap it down and add more
5. Keep bellows, adding, tapping until the smoker is as full as you want it, and is staying lit
    (You are essentially lighting the new fuel with the embers of the old)
6. While working, get in the habit of giving the smoker a couple of squeezes with the bellows to keep it going
7. When finished, cork it and hang it in a metal bucket (That's the "Smokey the Bear" in me  ;))

This method takes several minutes, but it ends up doing a fine job. There are probably many better methods, but this is how I do it.

Walt
Title: Re: Smoker - how to light and keep it going
Post by: efmesch on January 06, 2014, 03:33:36 pm
That's a great question Jaybird.  Lots of keeps find their smokers as frustrating as they are essential.  There are probably as many different methods used as there are beekeepers---everyone settling down eventually to a method that serves reliably and well.
The method I prefer goes as follows.
1. Take a strip of corrugated cardboard and roll it up so that it fits comfortably inside the cannister---with the corrugations lined up vertically (creating a lot of little chimneys inside).  Tie it with a string so it doesn't unravel.
2. Take some crumpled newspaper, light it at a corner and stuff it inside the smoker.
3.Puff up the flame ans slowly insert the rolled cardboard inside--but not all the way (or you'll put out the flame).
4. As the bottem of the cardboard catches on fire, push it it, puffing away all the time to make sure it catches well.  You can make it easier for the cardboard to catch on fire by tearing apart the bottom corner of the corrugations, thus giving a thinner piece of paper to catch fire.
5.  Once the cardboard is burning well, push it down alll the way and close the smoker.

This should give you a nice dependable smoke.  As the fuel burns down, it can be replenished with more carton but my personal preferrence is to use dried leaves or grass packed on top of the carton.  once they catch fire, they burn well and long.
Title: Re: Smoker - how to light and keep it going
Post by: Slowmodem on January 06, 2014, 03:36:28 pm
Pine needles work well as fuel.  I have used wood pellets (the kind that is used in stoves), but you must put a screen in the smoker outlet so the lit pellets don't roll out of the smoker and into the hive.  You can roll up some cardboard and stick that into the smoker then light it with a torch.  You can use any combination of the above, too.  Green grass can be put on top to help cool the smoke.  Green grass tends to smoke a lot, too.

Experiment with it and have fun.  Beware, though, it will get very very hot.  The times I have been burnt is when I was trying to get the top on after lighting.

Also, if you wear a bee suit, the smoker will melt the fabric.

Just a few random thoughts.  Hope it helps.
Title: Re: Smoker - how to light and keep it going
Post by: G3farms on January 06, 2014, 04:04:06 pm
I use pine needles now and love it.

1. Take a small wad of needles and stick it in the smoker.
2. I use a propane torch, lite the small wad of needles and puff the bellows a little until lit.
3. pack in another larger wad of needles and puff the bellows until the fire starts to grow.
4. PACK the smoker SOLID with needles all the while puffing the bellows.

Just a few puffs every now and then will keep it going. I use a big stick that is whittled down on the end to put in the snout to snuff out the fire.  wad of green grass works very good also and is always handy, no stick to keep up with.

The fire needs to be in the bottom of the smoker, so lighting the top of a packed smoker will not last very long.
Title: Re: Smoker - how to light and keep it going
Post by: efmesch on January 06, 2014, 04:21:49 pm
The fire needs to be in the bottom of the smoker, so lighting the top of a packed smoker will not last very long.

G3 made a very important comment there.  Try to light your smoker from the top and you are doomed to failure or to a very short lived smoke!!
Title: Re: Smoker - how to light and keep it going
Post by: BoilerJim on January 06, 2014, 04:23:32 pm
I, too, use a propane torch and use pine needles. Like Walt I also use wood shavings but I like what Ef says. Sounds like he has it down to a science. I may incorporate using a strip of corrugated cardboard vertically along with my pine needles and wood shavings. Using the propane torch has saved me many headaches. I started using one about a year ago after watching another keep use his.
Title: Re: Smoker - how to light and keep it going
Post by: riverbee on January 06, 2014, 04:59:43 pm
i posted this elsewhere, but will paste and copy here:

jen put some starter material in the smoker first. (don't fill it)  for example i use crumpled paper, loosely set it in, shove it down a little with a hive tool, and hit the paper with a propane torch. squeeze the bellows a couple times and add your burning material.  i use cedar chips.  i add a little at a time, and puff, until i get the smoke effect, then continue to add what i need, again puffing it as i do.  it stays lit. i use a 4 x 10 domed smoker.  every once in awhile i just puff it good to make sure it doesn't go out on me, or add a few more cedar chips to it.
Title: Re: Smoker - how to light and keep it going
Post by: Moots on January 06, 2014, 07:29:45 pm
I use pine needles now and love it.

1. Take a small wad of needles and stick it in the smoker.
2. I use a propane torch, lite the small wad of needles and puff the bellows a little until lit.
3. pack in another larger wad of needles and puff the bellows until the fire starts to grow.
4. PACK the smoker SOLID with needles all the while puffing the bellows.

Just a few puffs every now and then will keep it going. I use a big stick that is whittled down on the end to put in the snout to snuff out the fire.  wad of green grass works very good also and is always handy, no stick to keep up with.

The fire needs to be in the bottom of the smoker, so lighting the top of a packed smoker will not last very long.

I'm sure all the methods mentioned work fine...but I'll put a +1 on the above from G3farms.  It's as good of a description of exactly what I do as if I had written it.  ;D

One other fuel that I have used that I also like is burlap.  However, you have to be careful when collecting burlap sacks that it hasn't been treated with something that could harm your bees.

Also, while using pine needles...If you really pack the smoker, it'll last a lot longer.

Good Luck!  :)
Title: Re: Smoker - how to light and keep it going
Post by: riverbee on January 07, 2014, 12:42:44 pm
hey, some of us beeks don't have pine needles...... :D or very few.

another material i use is dried sage brush, we don't have it here, but when i'm in montana, i collect it and bring it back, dry it out and use it in my smoker, and it smells real nice too!
Title: Re: Smoker - how to light and keep it going
Post by: mamapoppybee on January 07, 2014, 02:40:27 pm
I think she sould pour it afew more drinks :D
Title: Re: Smoker - how to light and keep it going
Post by: Perry on January 07, 2014, 08:10:15 pm
I'm with Moots and G3, it is exactly what I do. Pine needles and propane torch.  :yes:
Title: Re: Smoker - how to light and keep it going
Post by: tecumseh on January 07, 2014, 09:59:36 pm
I have a reputation amongst folks of being one of those people that can keep a smoker going all day long < if there is a trick here it is in reproducing the sound produced at a black smith's forge.  once you have the smoker lit work the bellows until you get a good constant 'woof' each and every time you pump the bellows.  then tamp down and add some more fuel then work the bellows again until you once again produce the same constant 'woof'.  once you have tuned you ear to the proper sound your problems in keeping the lighter lit will be no more.
Title: Re: Smoker - how to light and keep it going
Post by: efmesch on January 08, 2014, 04:09:41 am
Meow!  :laugh:
Title: Re: Smoker - how to light and keep it going
Post by: Bakersdozen on January 08, 2014, 08:04:11 am
Someone in this thread mentioned burlap.  I pick an occasional burlap bag up at a local coffee shop that roasts their own coffee beans.  There aren't any chemicals on those bags.  I think I gave them $1.00 for a bag last time.
Title: Re: Smoker - how to light and keep it going
Post by: Bakersdozen on January 08, 2014, 08:41:22 am
For a  beekeeping club activity, I think it would be fun and educational for new beekeepers to have a smoker challenge.  Contestants could be a mix of seasoned and beginner beekeepers.  This could be done at a beginning beekeepers class or at a casual outdoor club activity.  Contestants could line up with their smokers and combustibles of choice.  You could have winners in different categories like first puff of smoke, who produced the largest cloud of smoke and who's smoker stays lit the longest.  On lookers could observe the techniques used for fire starting and materials used.  I would call it a smoke-off or smoke-out...something catchy.  The winner could explain in detail or demonstrate their technique for long lasting smoke.
I have seen other "talks" about lighting a smoker.  All done indoors.  They didn't help me much.  Some of us aren't natural born boy scouts.
Title: Re: Smoker - how to light and keep it going
Post by: iddee on January 08, 2014, 08:50:01 am
One session of our beginners class is an outside demo of lighting smokers by 5 or 6 different people showing different fuels and methods.
Title: Re: Smoker - how to light and keep it going
Post by: Bakersdozen on January 08, 2014, 09:08:51 pm
One session of our beginners class is an outside demo of lighting smokers by 5 or 6 different people showing different fuels and methods.
That's good.  Hearing how to do it during a lecture just isn't the same.
Title: Re: Smoker - how to light and keep it going
Post by: efmesch on January 09, 2014, 11:46:19 am
How's about some of our more experienced video posters filming a demonstration of lighting smokers  that could go on-line?
Title: Re: Smoker - how to light and keep it going
Post by: apisbees on January 10, 2014, 01:25:57 pm
Smoker  Fuel
If it will burn by smoldering it can be used as smoker full I never carry any with me but scrounge what is available. Pine cones, pine needles, straw, Hay, dried grass, wood chips, bark mulch, rotten wood. The easiest to light is rolled up cardboard, a roll of cardboard can be used without a smoker if needed and you don't have a smoker with you. take a piece of cardboard 12 " square and roll it up, light one end them put out the flame and let it smolder blow though the cardboard and the smoke will be carried into the hive, I have used this on a few occasions.
One of the best and longest burning smoker fuels I have come across and used is dry horse manure find dry in the field or spread out the dollops and let dry. They smolder for a very long time once lit they stay lit if they are dry all the way thru. When dry they are light in weight produce a cool clean smoke and a small smoker will stay lit and burn all day without having to continuously add smoker fuel.
Title: Re: Smoker - how to light and keep it going
Post by: Jen on January 10, 2014, 06:41:41 pm
I've used burlap, it's okay but not great. I've used pine needles which has been my best source for staying lit. I think I'll follow the instructions of those who use the cardboard and then follow with pine needles. I'll that this summer.

Thanks!  8)
Title: Re: Smoker - how to light and keep it going
Post by: Crofter on January 10, 2014, 07:22:38 pm
Dried horse dung for smoker fuel.

Apisbees, you wouldn't be pulling our leg now would you?  "Don't eat that 'arry, thath horth thit!"

I have a good supply but never thought of trying it; will give it a go next summer.  Have found some cardboards are near useless; seems to have a high content of clay filler.
Title: Re: Smoker - how to light and keep it going
Post by: Slowmodem on January 10, 2014, 08:33:22 pm
Dried horse dung for smoker fuel.

Apisbees, you wouldn't be pulling our leg now would you?  "Don't eat that 'arry, thath horth thit!"

I have a good supply but never thought of trying it; will give it a go next summer.  Have found some cardboards are near useless; seems to have a high content of clay filler.

I have read of the people in eastern Asia in the Gobi desert using manure for heat.  I never thought I'd care for it, though.
Title: Re: Smoker - how to light and keep it going
Post by: riverbee on January 10, 2014, 09:35:17 pm
the more i read this the more i laugh.......100 and then some ways to light a smoker and keep it lit..... :D
Title: Re: Smoker - how to light and keep it going
Post by: Jen on January 11, 2014, 12:04:08 am
Hey! we have burned old dried cow patties in dear camp. Works just fine!

Before putting dung into smoker make sure it's at least one winter old... ya that!
Title: Re: Smoker - how to light and keep it going
Post by: Bakersdozen on January 11, 2014, 07:24:25 am
Smoker  Fuel

One of the best and longest burning smoker fuels I have come across and used is dry horse manure find dry in the field or spread out the dollops and let dry.

Plains Native Americans and settlers used buffalo chips for fuel.  Nature's little smoker pellets. ;)
Title: Re: Smoker - how to light and keep it going
Post by: Crofter on January 11, 2014, 09:04:19 am
I have two sizes available; about 7/8" diameter and about 1 1/2". Pictures on request! :D
Title: Re: Smoker - how to light and keep it going
Post by: blueblood on January 11, 2014, 10:14:24 am
I keep burlap pieces in my pocket but simply stuff my smoker with anything that on the ground in my yard.
Title: Re: Smoker - how to light and keep it going
Post by: tecumseh on January 11, 2014, 05:03:54 pm
I now render out a good bit of wax each year from dead hives and this mess I stuff into burlap bags and boil in a #3 washtub and press out the wax.  when done I then allow both the bag and what is left in the bag to dry and I sometimes burn both in my smoker < both of these since they still have a small quantity of bee wax in them produce a very pleasant oder.  horse dropping and cow dung when properly dry are both good things to burn, but not really recommended however anytime you are taking off honey < these really don't smell so great but they both smolder well.  I prefer a cool smoke to a hot smoke since I think the latter can have the tendency to wind 'the girls' up just a little bit. 
Title: Re: Smoker - how to light and keep it going
Post by: efmesch on January 12, 2014, 01:55:29 am
Along the same line as Tecumseh's use of "second hand" bee's wax, I often take the remnants left behind after melting down old frames in my solar wax melter.  The filtered wax is collected for the various uses of wax.  The left-behinds are saved to be put in my smoker to keep it going.  I may be just imagining it, but it seems to me that the smoke it produces is less annoying to and has a more calming effect on the bees.
Title: Re: Smoker - how to light and keep it going
Post by: tecumseh on January 14, 2014, 06:43:13 am
I think you are quite right on that efmesch.  I guess folks like myself do notice when a particular smoke calms or revs up 'the girls'.  I have often thought that bee waxed based stuff when burned seem to soothe the savage beast.  on the other hand we have some lint like product (kind of looks like ground up cloth or something) which is actually sold as smoker fuel which we have at the bee lab that must have something added to it and this stuff really seems to get 'the girls' all wound up.
Title: Re: Smoker - how to light and keep it going
Post by: Jen on January 14, 2014, 12:15:24 pm
Okay ef and tec- when your done with your smoker for the day and it goes out... then there must be a wax sediment of some sort on the floor of the smoker? And if so, should that be cleared out before the next lite?
Title: Re: Smoker - how to light and keep it going
Post by: iddee on January 14, 2014, 01:14:31 pm
Wax is flammable. Why would you throw it out?
Title: Re: Smoker - how to light and keep it going
Post by: Jen on January 14, 2014, 02:21:36 pm
Well.. Iddee! Because pesonally, I haven't burned beeswax in a smoker before... ! So, I don't know what to expect at the bottom of the smoker.  Does the wax burn out clean? Does it ALWAYS stay flamable no matter how much it has been lit or burnt? Will the bottom of the smoker turn into a slug of burnt wax and burlap that you have to scrap out cussing thru it all!

Looking at you straight on with half a smile and one eyebrow up

Title: Re: Smoker - how to light and keep it going
Post by: iddee on January 14, 2014, 02:39:33 pm
It burns like a candle. Complete, without ashes or residue.
Title: Re: Smoker - how to light and keep it going
Post by: efmesch on January 14, 2014, 04:01:52 pm
I've never had a wax sediment form in my smoker----but I definitely do get an accumulation of "tar" that collects in the lid and around the barrel of the smoker.  I ignore it on both until it gets about 2-3 mm thick.  Then it is usually brittle enough to let me peel it off in chunks with the aid of my hive tool.  The accumulations around the smoke vent are the most difficult to remove.  For them I use the frame lifting edge of my flat hive tool.
Title: Re: Smoker - how to light and keep it going
Post by: tecumseh on January 14, 2014, 06:39:04 pm
well yea... what iddee said.

as a side bar you can go to the facebook link at beeweaver.com and go way down the page and back into late 2013 and the master beekeeper Danny Weaver has a video lighting a smoker.
Title: Re: Smoker - how to light and keep it going
Post by: Jen on January 14, 2014, 11:47:42 pm
Thanks guys!  ;) 8)
Title: Re: Smoker - how to light and keep it going
Post by: tbonekel on January 18, 2014, 11:05:52 am
I have read about people using pine shavings and since I use those for chicken and pet bedding, I thought it would be a good fuel. When I first starting using it, for some reason, it would not stay smoking for a long period of time and I really didn't know why. I realized later that I really had to pack that stuff in there once I got it started. I thought it would put out the embers, but no. It's kind of amazing how much of that I can stick in a smoker. Anyway, once I started doing that, that sucker stays lit for a long time after I'm done in the hives.
Title: Re: Smoker - how to light and keep it going
Post by: LazyBkpr on January 20, 2014, 06:13:51 pm
I bought a bag of wood stove pellets, and have to say they work really well at keeping the smoker lit, but I am not so sure about the effect on the bees. I puff smoke at them and they set up a pretty good buzz..   Before that I was using chipped wood people use for mulch. it burns up faster so I have to take extra with me, but didnt seem to bother the bees as much.
   Pine trees around here are few and far between. We had plenty when we lived in Maine, not so many in Iowa.  Gonna collect some road apples and let them dry out well and see how those work next!
Title: Re: Smoker - how to light and keep it going
Post by: Slowmodem on January 20, 2014, 07:59:09 pm
I bought a bag of wood stove pellets, and have to say they work really well at keeping the smoker lit, but I am not so sure about the effect on the bees.

TIP:  Put a piece of screen at the outlet to prevent hot pellets from rolling out of the smoker into the hive.   C:-)
Title: Re: Smoker - how to light and keep it going
Post by: LazyBkpr on January 20, 2014, 08:49:10 pm
Thanks Slow! I should have mentioned that.. fortunately the first time I used it with the pellets it was only the top/cold ones that came tumbling out. 
Title: Re: Smoker - how to light and keep it going
Post by: Dirt road on January 20, 2014, 10:31:20 pm
I bought a bag of wood stove pellets, and have to say they work really well at keeping the smoker lit, but I am not so sure about the effect on the bees.

TIP:  Put a piece of screen at the outlet to prevent hot pellets from rolling out of the smoker into the hive.   C:-)

I keep a box of dried course grass around and put a handful of that on top of the pellets. For me, that has solved the issue of pellets rolling out the spout. I have pretty much quit using pine needles, because the needles I get off my trees leave a LOT of creosote, even after they were collected brown and stored over winter. I liked the smell though.
Title: Re: Smoker - how to light and keep it going
Post by: tecumseh on January 21, 2014, 08:54:34 pm
people actually buy their smoker fuel!  now don't that just beat all?