Worldwide Beekeeping
Beekeeping => General Beekeeping => Topic started by: Jen on January 08, 2014, 04:54:10 pm
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Thank You LzyBkpr for making this inner cover and taking your time to ship it to me. Excellent workmanship here. I am most humbly grateful ~
And Look! The ladies already approve!! ;) 8)
(https://worldwidebeekeeping.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fs30.postimg.cc%2Fna4u5twi5%2FDSCF8531.jpg&hash=65f5a536b09bde93d899a03dfd908cc8d2d536e0) (http://postimg.cc/image/na4u5twi5/)
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Hey Lazy, returned your pm :)
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;D
Hope it serves you well for many years.
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No doubt in my mind ~
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Jay that inner cover will make your life a little easier.
That outer cover will come off easy and the inner cover will not be very hard to get off.
I know lazy puts a lot of pride in his work.
It shows even in the pictures!
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Thanks Rev, I will never let a hive go without one again. Lazy's got my business for sure! ;) 8)
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VERY COOL!!!! and i loved the handwritten note "just for jay" !!!
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riv- Mee Too :)
Now- I'm going to put on winter patties, so I should put the entrance notch down, right? so that there is a little room for the bees to move around... ?
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Jaybird, I don't know how hot it gets in Northern California, but if it hits 100 in summer, you should take the inner cover off. I only run them in winter, but mine are not nearly as nice. (I got the dadant fiberboard ones)
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How thick are the patties Jay? If flipping the cover gives you enough room that will be fine. if not might need to use a shim.
It hits 105 here at times. Removing the inner cover will completely block any ventilation through the top, so... I am wondering how removing the inner cover would help with the heat?? Learning Experience Gypsi. Please elaborate?
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Yes, Gypsi. Please elaborate.
It hits 100 here and I see NO reason to remove the inner cover, unless you are going to migratory tops, which give NO ventilation. Please explain.
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Right on!
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Lazy- don't know how thick the winter patties are yet. Waiting to get them in the mail from B&B Honey Farm.
Our friend can make a shim for me. actually for my hive and his hive. I bought patties for both hives.
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C:-) My first hive had a hole in the top with stapled mesh wire over the hole. Maybe Gypsi's has a hole in the top of her hive?
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fyi - I didn't have an inner cover on my hive last summer. It got to be 106 for a spell, so this is how I ventilated my hive. It was fun to go out after the sun went down and see all my girl faces pressed against the wire mesh
(https://worldwidebeekeeping.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fs30.postimg.cc%2Fjczxzeaxp%2FDSCF7289.jpg&hash=9b38fb1e929eb050ad564327f350f24d06ab23ee) (http://postimg.cc/image/jczxzeaxp/)
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Lazy- what is the depth of a shim? how tall if you will? ummm, the side of the inner cover that has the knoched entrance... is that rim the same dimensions of a shim?
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Yes, the same dimensions as your box. I use 1 1/2 inch shims to put my sugar on in the winter. You can make them whatever size is best for what you need to do. Putting fondant patties on you might get away fine with 1" shims.
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If you don't have a shim handy, you can put an empty box (shallow, medium, or deep) on and call that a BIG shim. :D
(I've done that before) 8)
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Lazy- one inch it is then. Thanks
Slow- I would do a shallow if I had one, I don't have a supply of extras yet. Buuut, isn't it not a good idea to put an empty deep on top due to all the cold air space?
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Empty air space at the top is bad. Starvation is worse. Do what you have to, but limit the bad as much as feasible.
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Thanks Iddee
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Empty air space at the top is bad. Starvation is worse. Do what you have to, but limit the bad as much as feasible.
I've been thinking about that. My first winter, I did the Mountain Camp feeding method with sugar,and I had a deep box on top (that was all I had). But I had newspaper down on the frames (with a little hole for the bees to come and go from the cluster to the sugar). Perhaps it was the newspaper that acted like a top and kept the heat in?
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That was part of it, but I don't think you had sub zero temps that winter in east Tennessee, either.
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so do I understand properly that some folks are using standard outer covers with no inner cover? that must be interesting. :'(
migratory covers do not require inner covers but in the hottest months of the year these may have to be cracked just a bit to provide some ventilation.... a standard shim from the hardware store or even a small stick (in some places referred to as 'tecumseh stick' < patent pending of course) will do the trick here without the addition of an inner cover. a migratory cover with a hole in the top is a access spot for some kind of feeder bottle.
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The one thing about migratory covers that puzzles me up here anyway, is how long do they last? Wooden tops up here would need fairly constant attention/maintenance with the weather extremes we endure.
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Jaybird,
The Dandant website and catalog recommend a 1 3/4 shim for the winter patties they sell. The shim includes two cross bars which I find makes them more stable. They sell them but they are very easy to make. I included a 1/2 in hole in the lower edge of one side to allow ventilation and an upper entrance. I can get 4 patties in and leave space so that the inner cover vent is open. One of the patties has to overlap to make that happen but the bees can easily get around them. The patties would not fit very well under an inner cover. I tried but too tight. Also I found that when I flipped the inner cover over, the propolis on the underside now sticks to the telescoping cover and both come off at the same time.
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The one thing about migratory covers that puzzles me up here anyway, is how long do they last? Wooden tops up here would need fairly constant attention/maintenance with the weather extremes we endure.
I have some tops made out of 3/4" exterior sheathing. Some I have put a little aluminum flashing over the top, others are just paint. I don't expect the painted ones to last more than 5 years but it's still pretty darn cheap.
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Gary- so I would put the shim on the hive, then put the inner cover on the shim, then put the hive lid on? right?
And I don't know which is the top of the inner cover as opposed to the bottom of the cover ~ this has confused me from the beginning
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"Lazy- don't know how thick the winter patties are yet. Waiting to get them in the mail from B&B Honey Farm."
jen, they are thin and made to fit underneath the deep side of a standard inner cover, and should fit under the cover lazy made you. lazy what was the depth/s of the cover you made jen?
"And I don't know which is the top of the inner cover as opposed to the bottom of the cover ~ this has confused me from the beginning"
there is a deep side and a thinner side to an inner cover, and either notch up, or notch down, notch down is the deeper side. all of my inner covers are set on my hives notch down, others use theirs notch up.
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Gary- so I would put the shim on the hive, then put the inner cover on the shim, then put the hive lid on? right?
And I don't know which is the top of the inner cover as opposed to the bottom of the cover ~ this has confused me from the beginning
If you look at this picture from Brushy Mountain, there is writing on the top and the notched side goes up. The red writing says "THIS SIDE UP".
(https://worldwidebeekeeping.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.brushymountainbeefarm.com%2Fimages%2F671innercover.jpg&hash=9e2af8e90c680e6b03ebb96df353fd9b28b40bc4)
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Yep, Notch generally goes up, the other side is slightly shallower than the notch side. You can put the notch side down for ventilation and or upper entrance, just make sure to slide the outer/telescoping cover forward to open the notch/vent... If the patties are thin you may get away fine flipping the notch down.
If your using the shim, it goes UNDER the inner cover, then the tele cover goes over it all.
If you leave the notch side down in good/warm weather they MAY build burr comb under the cover. Hope that helps!
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thanks lazy for answering........i use my notch side down, always up here, i do that lazy, as you said for ventilation and exit/entrance, and all my inner covers i have notched out further to about 3 inches. i don't use the notch side up.
the patties will fit jen, from b and b honey farms, if you turn lazy's cover notch side down. then you will not need a shim.
i don't get too much, if any burr comb, doing it this way, (notch side down) but what i do get is if i don't stay ahead of the bees during the season......them building comb on the underneath side and filling with nectar/honey....... :D
"if you look at this picture from Brushy Mountain, there is writing on the top and the notched side goes up. The red writing says "THIS SIDE UP"
who follows instructions??? :D
lol, personal preference and pest problems, ventilation, entrance/exit will help you determine if it goes up or down....
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Jaydird, buy a box with frames from 3 different companies and you will find different distances between the top of the box and the top of the frames. That makes getting the space right between the inner lid and the frames impossible to tell a person when the boxes are not always the same. You want approx. 1/4 inch between the lid and the top of the frames. Too much and they build burr comb. Too little and they propolize them together so tight I have torn inner lids getting them off.
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Jaydird, buy a box with frames from 3 different companies and you will find different distances between the top of the box and the top of the frames. That makes getting the space right between the inner lid and the frames impossible to tell a person when the boxes are not always the same. You want approx. 1/4 inch between the lid and the top of the frames. Too much and they build burr comb. Too little and they propolize them together so tight I have torn inner lids getting them off.
I think there are some videos on youtube showing comparisons between different suppliers. There are also some papers written on the subject. Google it and explore! :)
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Is this burr comb?
(https://worldwidebeekeeping.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fs28.postimg.cc%2Fll3p1r5d5%2FDSCF6797.jpg&hash=9760b04025214d652880879e6ea5d7c24cb61b4d) (http://postimg.cc/image/ll3p1r5d5/)
(https://worldwidebeekeeping.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fs28.postimg.cc%2Fhv945yzu1%2FDSCF6798.jpg&hash=ec8c0202638833f3898d37713f85db010e7f0f9f) (http://postimg.cc/image/hv945yzu1/)
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Yes, Ma'am. Or wild comb, when it gets that large.
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It would be considered so.. got an empty frame slot in the hive?
Bah, Iddee beat me to it.
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Thanks Iddee
Lazy, remember me telling you about my 9 frames in my deep? this is what happened. I like to try and do an inspection once a month in the summer. The first inspection I did with this hive, I lifted the lid..... Whaaaaat The.....(&*(()%$.
Followed my nonsense, and pulled it off.
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Yep :) probably didnt get them spaced evenly and gave them room so they took advantage of it. They sure did a bang up job of getting it going well ;D
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Slow- thanks for the pic ~
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Actually I just kept staring at it cause it was so beautiful! I should have just hooked it onto my ceiling.... snark!
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riv said "i use my notch side down, always up here, i do that lazy, as you said for ventilation and exit/entrance"
I have also learned that notch down leaves an easy opportunity for ant invasion. Notch up gives the bees a better chance of dealing with the invasion ~ fyi
I should be getting my winter patties tomorrow or early next week, that will help me determine if I need a shim or not.
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jen, notch down, this time of year do you still have ant problems or ant invasion?
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Ants... we dont have issues with them, and I have YET to see a small hive beetle, so different locations require different methods!!!!
Wax moth here is incredibly BAD.. put an old frame in a swarm trap, go back a week later and you will see the beginnings of wax moth invasion. So taking advice from someone that KNOWS is usually a good step!!!
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riv- I had ants the first two seasons, but not bad, and they came cause I was using the sugar roll for mite testing. Last year I had no ants cause I now test for mites with a sbb and sticky board. It's not a problem anymore.
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jen, i don't have problems with pests, ants, wax moth or shb, just bears, so i use my inner cover notch side down, like i said earlier, personal preference and pest problems, ventilation, entrance/exit will help you determine/dictate if it goes up or down. use what works and is best for you!
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riv- ya, I'm thinking notch down to fit my winter patties and ventilation for now. I'm real excited about this inner board Lazy made for me. Just gotta get a warm day to install.
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it hits 100 here for an average of 5 to 6 hours per day and an average of 45 days out of the year with an average humidity of 45%. Bearding and irritable bees are the end result of solid inner covers with only the small opening in the center. If I run an inner cover it is either windowscreen or #8 hardware cloth. I also have a shade tree that gives the hives some shade after 4 pm.
I run migratory covers in summer with a 3 inch hole drilled in the middle and #8 hardware cloth on the inside of the migratory cover. Feed jar goes in the center. Bees have full access to the interior top and there are no hidey holes for shb.
Your mileage may vary.
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Gypsi- I like the migratory covers. Mine doesn't have a hole in the center, I just push the cover over a bit and carefully follow it with this window screening. It's fun to see their little faces pressed up to the screen a night ~
(https://worldwidebeekeeping.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fs17.postimg.cc%2F5fbcszezv%2FDSCF7289.jpg&hash=2659bddd28cfb9f131e717fb05fc93ea130370a3) (http://postimg.cc/image/5fbcszezv/)
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I make my own migratory covers and I bought a 3 inch drill bit, because robbing is so fierce here with the dearth, the only safe way to feed the bees is inside the hive. And the dearth is going on year 3, we get very very short spells of flow. So I saw these feeder boards on another forum, and the guy said I had to get this $40 a sheet fancy masonite, and I went to Home Depot and got a $15 sheet of half inch plywood and I own a circular saw.
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One end table done.. Onje left to build....
(https://worldwidebeekeeping.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fs8.postimg.cc%2Feyipa0ao1%2FDSCF0021.jpg&hash=ae6061d9482444daf22305dfcf7c719078fd26b0) (http://postimg.cc/image/eyipa0ao1/)
And guess what i got today to set on it for the picture??
Need a closeup?
(https://worldwidebeekeeping.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fs29.postimg.cc%2Fq6z9fonk3%2FDSCF0020.jpg&hash=3529c385da1d682814ee170c82b895b5490bd369) (http://postimg.cc/image/q6z9fonk3/)
Thats Jens Honey lotion!! Its hidden in the fridge at the moment, but I am sure she will find it soon.. at which point the begging begins, and the DEAL must be made!!!
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Ooooh Wow! :) Glad it arrived safely! I had mental images of it getting broken and making a soggy mess of the USPostal services machines. $5,000 fine for lying at the counter that there was nothing parishable in the box! Enjoy! It sure can't can't hurt ya!
Thanks for posting this Lazy ;) 8)
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YW, and tyvm for sending it. This is certainly worth WAY more than the inner cover Jen.. Unfortunately, she found it within 5 minutes of being home. i got HOUNDED for close to two hours, but she has happy feets now. She liked it, and I got promises of compensation for diligently rubbing it into those feets ;D ;D ;D ;D
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;) ;) ;) ;)
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YW, and tyvm for sending it. This is certainly worth WAY more than the inner cover Jen.. Unfortunately, she found it within 5 minutes of being home. i got HOUNDED for close to two hours, but she has happy feets now. She liked it, and I got promises of compensation for diligently rubbing it into those feets ;D ;D ;D ;D
Sooooooooo, she's letting you buy more be stuff then? ???
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Bee stuff?? :laugh: LOL that never even entered the debate!! ;D
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NOT! I don't know how to do your trade, and you don't know how to do my trade! There is not a measure of value here, just trading within the love of our hobbies. Well, for me it's a hobby ;) 8)