Worldwide Beekeeping

Beekeeping => Beekeeping 101 => Topic started by: LazyBkpr on January 08, 2014, 06:09:42 pm

Title: Spring Feeding for buildup!
Post by: LazyBkpr on January 08, 2014, 06:09:42 pm
yes, its still WAY to early, but I'm standing by the door with the pollen sub over my shoulder waiting....


   So...  the question.

   DO, you feed early to build the colonies faster?
      No? Ignore the rest of this.
        Yes? What do you feed and how?


   I use Bee Pro from Mann Lake with a bag of real pollen mixed in on the bottom tray, and use gallon jugs of syrup on top of the feeding station. If the nights are getting cooler than 50 I take the syrup in each night...

   Rather than go to each hive, remove frames for a frame feeder, or fuss with a top feeder, i make the bees come to the feed.. the exception being new or weak colonies / splits / nuc's  I use top or boardmans.. now, before you yell at me for the boardmans.. I put the boardman all the way to one side, and reduce the entrance with a 3/4 board so theres only an inch or two on the opposite side open.   Havent had any serious robbing doing it that way yet, but have screens ready to put in in case I do..

   A couple pics of the feeder I use. ALL repainted and ready for warm weather;


(https://worldwidebeekeeping.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fs27.postimg.cc%2Ff2tlg2rhr%2FDSCN0329.jpg&hash=15adbf3f4b23f9b3a636d540c0c50089ff37280f) (http://postimg.cc/image/f2tlg2rhr/)


(https://worldwidebeekeeping.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fs24.postimg.cc%2Fhibrhm5pt%2FDSCN0331.jpg&hash=113e7180e25d971e0208d5f12a50aca70babc18d) (http://postimg.cc/image/hibrhm5pt/)
Title: Re: Spring Feeding for buildup!
Post by: iddee on January 08, 2014, 06:20:13 pm
I've never had a problem with a boardman in the spring. Only in the summer and fall dearth.

I go to a local brewery and get spent brewer's yeast. Mix 80% brewers yeast, 10% sugar, and 10% soy flour. That's my pollen sub. If I had raw pollen, I would mix it in, too.

The main thing you want to watch is:

Right now they have enough stores to last them until bloom. If you start feeding them, they will add 20 to 30 thousand new mouths to feed. It will consume all their stores. They will only have the feed to live on. Let the feeders go dry for 3 days and the hive is dead from starvation.
Title: Re: Spring Feeding for buildup!
Post by: LazyBkpr on January 08, 2014, 08:23:31 pm
Havent tried brewers yeast...  I'll have to check into that..
  Its still well below freezing here, so couldn't open feed if I wanted to, just saying, standing beside the door waiting...   Driving my wife up the wall..   WIN / WIN !!
   Supposed to be 40 this weekend, will give me a chance to go see how many hives I have left!!!
   I wont start feeding until the daytime temps begin hitting the 60's.  Early/mid April usually.  We could still get a frost/ cold weather into May so thats probably plenty soon.
Title: Re: Spring Feeding for buildup!
Post by: Jen on January 08, 2014, 10:27:06 pm
That feeding station is just the cat's meow! Nice Job!

I called one of our local bee guru's here, he's been at it for 40 years, and he's the one who got me set up with my first little hive.

He said that there is a white pollen here that comes before the dandelion's and that's when to start feeding here. That will be an easy rule for me to follow here, cause I sit with my bees most everyday.
Title: Re: Spring Feeding for buildup!
Post by: pistolpete on January 08, 2014, 11:37:23 pm
I stick with the advice from our bee inspector.  The only really good reason for starting early with a spring feeding is if bee stock sales are a part of your business.  Otherwise there is no point to it.   The bees will be at full strength well before the summer flows without supplemental pollen.  He also figures that any pollen supplement without at least 20% real pollen from your own hives is of questionable value.

Like anything else, this may be a regional thing.  Around here willow pollen is the first thing to start coming in (well before any nectar) so supplemental pollen is kind of a waste.   Giving your bees a 2 week head start may sound good in theory, but it does not actually increase honey production.   It does allow you to make earlier splits. 
Title: Re: Spring Feeding for buildup!
Post by: LazyBkpr on January 09, 2014, 12:21:06 am
It is pretty much a regional WEATHER thing..  it often turns out that there is no summer flow, and the goldenrod is all that lets the bees build up winter stores.. Last year was a good example of that. if you didnt get honey from the spring flow you didnt get any at all.  Even the goldenrod was dry and ugly.  I had several hives go into winter WITH spring honey.  Two weeks doesnt seem like much, but its a boost toward that first batch of brood hatching at 21 days, smack dab when the first of the trees and flowers begin blooming.. 
   if I could get away with it I would start them a month early, but the weather often denies me the chance, so i take what I can get.
Title: Re: Spring Feeding for buildup!
Post by: pistolpete on January 09, 2014, 01:42:59 am
One thing that I guess I should have mentioned, is that thought I don't feed pollen supplement, when they start flying around I give them syrup for a couple of weeks.  That's just insurance against running out of winter stores before the trees bloom.   Around here we get pretty good flows for about 3 months.  May, June, July.   In August things get very dry and it's subsistence foraging only right till freeze up.    Once in a while we get some rains in August that keep the Alfa Alfa producing and this can result in an extra 50 lbs of honey for each hive.
Title: Re: Spring Feeding for buildup!
Post by: kebee on January 09, 2014, 08:36:04 am
I don't feed pollen myself for the bees find plenty of it some where, I start feeding real good when I see the wild flowers starting to grow for I know it will not be long before there will be a flow on for them. Ok now about syrup freeze in the cold weather, I had some left when I last feed the bees on the back porch and it got down to 9f here and it still was not frozen, even during the 3 days, even on one day when it did not get up to only 31f the hold day so I don't think that can be used for an excuse any more.

Ken
Title: Re: Spring Feeding for buildup!
Post by: LazyBkpr on January 09, 2014, 08:45:12 am
Thanks Ken!!
   The Syrup freezing isnt the problem actually.. its that when the temps begin to get low and the syrup gets cold the bees wont take it..   So thats why I try to keep my syrup warm, to keep the ladies interested!
   Come to think of it... thats been my problem for near 40 years!!
Title: Re: Spring Feeding for buildup!
Post by: riverbee on January 09, 2014, 11:27:23 am
i do feed pollen sub and syrup well before the first flow.  it is advantageous for strong divides, and also i keep russian bees and mutts.  the russians are very slow to build up in the spring vs other breeds of bees.  as soon as natural pollen is available and starts coming in the front door, it is for the most part ignored.  (willows, and maples).
Title: Re: Spring Feeding for buildup!
Post by: kebee on January 09, 2014, 11:47:38 am
Come to think of it... thats been my problem for near 40 years!!

LazyBkp, I liked that, I am still laughter and how true here too.

Ken
Title: Re: Spring Feeding for buildup!
Post by: Marbees on January 09, 2014, 10:05:38 pm
i do feed pollen sub and syrup well before the first flow.  it is advantageous for strong divides, and as soon as natural pollen is available and starts coming in the front door, it is for the most part ignored.  (willows, and maples).

Same here when planning splits.
Title: Re: Spring Feeding for buildup!
Post by: apisbees on January 10, 2014, 12:46:36 pm
Feed pollen 3 weeks before the first natural pollen comes into the hive. but also have a reason for stimulating the bees. Either for nucs and splits or to take advantage of early pollination and spring honey crops. Pollen substitute is an inferior product to multi floral natural pollen so you don't want to stimulate feed more than one brood cycle.
Title: Re: Spring Feeding for buildup!
Post by: riverbee on January 10, 2014, 05:45:24 pm
depending on weather and depending on timing of divides, i will feed the pollen sub 4-6 weeks before any flow, and, once natural pollen is available in your area the bees will ignore it, but they do utilize it until then.  it may be inferior apis, but so is sugar syrup, fondant, sugar, winter patties, etc... just things we beeks do to manage and tweak our bees for the reason/purpose we do and the goal we desire to achieve.  another reason i use pollen subs is for the russian bees.  i have read many reports over the years, that these bees will not take pollen sub, well they do, and really does help to kick start brood rearing earlier than they normally would, and sometimes combined with sugar syrup.  for the most part, i find that these bees still have plenty of stores left come late february and march, but will add a small pail on anyway.
Title: Re: Spring Feeding for buildup!
Post by: Jen on January 12, 2014, 12:41:07 am
Lazy  ""I use top or boardmans.. now, before you yell at me for the boardmans..""


Curious.. why would you get yelled at for using boardmans? That's what kind I have... didn't feed last year tho
Title: Re: Spring Feeding for buildup!
Post by: Jen on January 12, 2014, 12:49:43 am
"" I use top or boardmans.. ""

'Top' meaning a jar of syrup thru the opening of the inner board with a super and lid over it?
 
Title: Re: Spring Feeding for buildup!
Post by: Perry on January 12, 2014, 07:27:48 am
Jaybird, I think that for the most part, they are the least desirable.
Title: Re: Spring Feeding for buildup!
Post by: tecumseh on January 12, 2014, 07:45:59 am
well feeding is never too early here....

after several days of cold and wet weather I will have nothing else on my schedule besides feeding bees for the next week or so.  this will continue on a 15 day interval for about the next two months or so.  optimally you want to begin stimulative feeding 45 to 60 days ahead of your first flow <  for the new beekeeper a diary should be kept and important dates noted like 'first bloom', 'first real flow' and 'first purple eyed drones noted' and as you proceed forward these dates are then quite valuable to inform you of when certain manipulation should occur or bee keeping operation should begin.
Title: Re: Spring Feeding for buildup!
Post by: Jen on January 12, 2014, 03:41:20 pm
tec- funny you mention that, I was thinking of getting a journal started about now. Thanks for the reminder
Title: Re: Spring Feeding for buildup!
Post by: LazyBkpr on January 12, 2014, 04:34:58 pm
well feeding is never too early here....

after several days of cold and wet weather I will have nothing else on my schedule besides feeding bees for the next week or so.  this will continue on a 15 day interval for about the next two months or so.  optimally you want to begin stimulative feeding 45 to 60 days ahead of your first flow <  for the new beekeeper a diary should be kept and important dates noted like 'first bloom', 'first real flow' and 'first purple eyed drones noted' and as you proceed forward these dates are then quite valuable to inform you of when certain manipulation should occur or bee keeping operation should begin.

   Thanks Tec..  Makes me wonder if I am starting to feed soon enough.
Title: Re: Spring Feeding for buildup!
Post by: Jen on January 12, 2014, 05:19:49 pm
tec said  ""optimally you want to begin stimulative feeding 45 to 60 days ahead of your first flow""

I sure don't know when that is, I will be charting it this year tho. But for now I think I shall talk to a local beek.
Title: Re: Spring Feeding for buildup!
Post by: tecumseh on January 14, 2014, 06:35:10 am
Actually Jen if you are from San Francisco Bay area or northward you are pretty much experience about the same winter time weather pattern as we do here in Central Texas.  of course in the Bay area since there is  a significant temperature modification from the coastal effect of the Pacific Ocean so some things there will begin to bloom ahead of things here.  over time a beekeeper does get to notice patterns and certainly when things bloom is an important ingredient to the basic knowledge of a beekeeper.  here I base certain manipulation and start dates based on things like 'begging of first substantial flow' and these dates may vary by as much as 2 week.  during our most recent visit to the Bay area it looked extremely dry to me and this is another factor that will significantly impact not only when things bloom but for how long. 
Title: Re: Spring Feeding for buildup!
Post by: Jen on January 14, 2014, 12:08:38 pm
tec, I live about 1/2 hour from the Oregon boarder.

What does "begging of first substantial flow" mean?"
Title: Re: Spring Feeding for buildup!
Post by: iddee on January 14, 2014, 01:13:27 pm
1/2 hour below the Oregon border could be two entirely different climates. What is your altitude?
Title: Re: Spring Feeding for buildup!
Post by: rodmaker on January 14, 2014, 01:23:31 pm
   just put out my first feeding of the new year the girls are out and moving 36 at night and 68 during the day . I have one hive in build up mode already. Their bringing back pollen from somewhere. Drought and warm weather must have everything early.
Title: Re: Spring Feeding for buildup!
Post by: Jen on January 14, 2014, 02:11:26 pm
Iddee- 2582 altitude
Title: Re: Spring Feeding for buildup!
Post by: Jen on January 14, 2014, 02:14:42 pm
Perry- why is a boardman considered the least desirable?
Title: Re: Spring Feeding for buildup!
Post by: tecumseh on January 14, 2014, 07:06:44 pm
a snip..
begging of first substantial flow

tecumesh...
that is called bad spellin' in my neck of the wood.  it should have been beginning and not begging but I some time do beg and pray for a good flow.  especially in the dry years.  heavy flight pattern at the front entry pretty much tell me when a flow is on.  < these can or at least should add significant weight to a hive so tipping the hive and feeling for heft also tells you quite a bit. 

shove in the front door type boardman feeder are first know to leak and secondly since they are unprotected can freeze and break.  either of these outcomes here highly attracts ants and I suspect the small hive beetles.  I do employ the same idea as the boardman feeder in some migratory style top covers and these do work quite nicely. 
Title: Re: Spring Feeding for buildup!
Post by: iddee on January 14, 2014, 08:27:12 pm
I LOVE A BOARDMAN FEEDER...........................200 feet from the hives.
Title: Re: Spring Feeding for buildup!
Post by: rrog13 on January 14, 2014, 08:53:33 pm
I LOVE A BOARDMAN FEEDER...........................200 feet from the hives.

lol.....agreed!
Title: Re: Spring Feeding for buildup!
Post by: LazyBkpr on January 14, 2014, 09:33:42 pm
I LOVE A BOARDMAN FEEDER...........................200 feet from the hives.

   Exactly!!
  I have used them in new colonies, but take pains with a reduced entrance to the far side away from the feeder.  If it gets cool at night, then warm during the day, the sun warms up the feeder and it leaks, or allows the syrup to dribble out faster than the bees can take it.. If the feeding is heavy, you can pull a jar from the boardman to find the feeder itself packed with drowned bees. At best, the syrup ran out the front of the feeder and is now making your bottom board sticky. if your hive is tilted slightly forward you have syrup leaking from the hive drawing bees from everywhere.
   They can be a REAL nuisance...
   Having said that.. IF, you use a bit of care, shield them from the sun to prevent the leakdown affect and take precautions against robbing they can be effective and useful. As I said, i still occasionally use them when starting a new colony, but generally use the feeder stand pictured. I put the feed out, the bees are quite capable of retrieving it.
Title: Re: Spring Feeding for buildup!
Post by: iddee on January 14, 2014, 09:41:23 pm
I line up 6 or 8 of them on my back porch. The bees come to them from all three bee yards. I don't have to carry the jars more than about 20 feet to change them out. It works great.
Title: Re: Spring Feeding for buildup!
Post by: Jen on January 14, 2014, 09:47:34 pm
This is interesting! I haven't learned about feeding stations until this forum.

I must figure out one for my yard... hmmm, maybe i can take a pic of my backyard and get some advice from my new best friends here  ;) 8)
Title: Re: Spring Feeding for buildup!
Post by: LazyBkpr on January 14, 2014, 10:08:12 pm
Heh! I like that Idea Iddee. Might try setting up the two home stations right outside the door. Relax in a lawn chair to watch, squish the occasional yellow jacket and never have to go farther than a few steps.
Title: Re: Spring Feeding for buildup!
Post by: Jen on January 14, 2014, 10:32:23 pm
Cool! I'de like some pics of this kind of event. I need some idea's
Title: Re: Spring Feeding for buildup!
Post by: iddee on January 14, 2014, 10:34:38 pm
Do you have a boardman feeder? If so, the next warm day you have, fill it and set it on the railing of your back porch. The bees will find it.
Title: Re: Spring Feeding for buildup!
Post by: rrog13 on January 14, 2014, 10:53:59 pm
Here’s a couple feeding stations I set out in the yard last year.  They’re nothing special but, do the trick.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_MfePF4ni0Q

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0VBQcCjMWZQ
Title: Re: Spring Feeding for buildup!
Post by: Jen on January 14, 2014, 11:33:33 pm
rrog- is that drivert sugar in the dry jar?
Title: Re: Spring Feeding for buildup!
Post by: pistolpete on January 15, 2014, 03:04:31 am
I guess that feeding stations are great if you live more than  5 miles from the nearest bee keeper.  Otherwise, at best you're feeding their bees, at worst you're contaminating their honey with sugar.   Any kind of open feeding has to be done responsibly.
Title: Re: Spring Feeding for buildup!
Post by: Perry on January 15, 2014, 06:26:15 am
rrog- is that drivert sugar in the dry jar?

I'm guessing pollen sub.
Title: Re: Spring Feeding for buildup!
Post by: Gary on January 15, 2014, 10:06:48 am
RROG,
I like your hivestands. Are they 4 X4s with dead air space fully enclosed under the hive?
Title: Re: Spring Feeding for buildup!
Post by: Jen on January 15, 2014, 12:39:25 pm
Pistol- ""I guess that feeding stations are great if you live more than  5 miles from the nearest bee keeper.  Otherwise, at best you're feeding their bees, at worst you're contaminating their honey with sugar.   Any kind of open feeding has to be done responsibly.""

Do you feed your bees? and if so, how do you do it?

Still figuring out how to spring feed for honey.
 
Title: Re: Spring Feeding for buildup!
Post by: LazyBkpr on January 15, 2014, 04:31:03 pm
I guess that feeding stations are great if you live more than  5 miles from the nearest bee keeper.  Otherwise, at best you're feeding their bees, at worst you're contaminating their honey with sugar.   Any kind of open feeding has to be done responsibly.

   Only if your attempting to open feed your bees during a flow, (?) and thats not the point, the point is early feeding before the flow, before the supers go on to give them a jump start.
  edit;   And or after the flow has ended.... during a dearth or in the fall to pump them up for winter if you had a bad year and they are low on resources.  /end edit
Title: Re: Spring Feeding for buildup!
Post by: rodmaker on January 15, 2014, 05:24:44 pm
       Opened four hives today one laying worker two normal winter time brood maybe half a frame of brood the hive that has been active had four and a half frames of brood from capped to eggs. My question is why is there so much difference in the hives? I did not spend time looking for queens only brood what would start one queen laying so much already? All the hives have bees coming and going but this hive is acting like its summertime any ideas?
Title: Re: Spring Feeding for buildup!
Post by: LazyBkpr on January 15, 2014, 05:38:53 pm
Genetics maybe?
   what are your temps out there in Cali Rodmaker?
   I'd be keeping tabs on the resources of that hive thats building up..  if theres nothing to bring in they will burn through whatever they have in the hive pretty fast with that much brood.
Title: Re: Spring Feeding for buildup!
Post by: rodmaker on January 15, 2014, 06:20:22 pm
   lazybkpr the temps are frost in the mourning and 65 to 68 in the afternoon been this way for a couple of weeks. plenty of stores about seven frames in a medium and two deep frames below.
Title: Re: Spring Feeding for buildup!
Post by: rrog13 on January 15, 2014, 07:15:03 pm
Jen ……Perry is correct. That was some pollen substitute I had set out.
http://www.mannlakeltd.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Store_Code=mannlake&Screen=DISP_INFO&Product_Code=FD-200&ajax=true (http://www.mannlakeltd.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Store_Code=mannlake&Screen=DISP_INFO&Product_Code=FD-200&ajax=true)

Gary……Yes.  Those are made out of 4 x4’s.  The middle 4 x4 in the rear is removable with window screen covering the inner side.  The screen keeps bees from gathering underneath when its open.  The temps here in GA can get above 100 in the summer.   
Title: Re: Spring Feeding for buildup!
Post by: Perry on January 15, 2014, 07:33:27 pm
Any thought to moving a frame with young open brood into the laying worker hive just to see if they might try and raise one, or do you suspect it's been that way a while?
Title: Re: Spring Feeding for buildup!
Post by: rodmaker on January 16, 2014, 11:16:52 am
  last fall had raised a queen she hatched do not know what happened. Not enough bees to keep brood warm through the night still getting down to low thirties at night. I have emptied this hive twice now and given them frames to raise a new queen both times queen failed to take off don't know why. I could have started two new hives with what i have used in this hive trying to save it.
Title: Re: Spring Feeding for buildup!
Post by: brooksbeefarm on January 16, 2014, 01:13:03 pm
Rod, this may not be the problem, but i've had hives like that and went through the hive real slow and on several occasions found a small queen,( not much bigger than a worker)that i over looked, and either she run out of sperm or maybe a virgin queen that never got bred that they accepted? if this is the case they will not raise another queen and will kill any queen you try to introduce. Jack
Title: Re: Spring Feeding for buildup!
Post by: pistolpete on January 16, 2014, 04:36:44 pm
Jbird:  I feed my bees with large pickle jars with perforated lids.  These are placed inverted on a screened hole in the inner cover.  a deep hive bony goes around the jar and then the outer cover on top of that.

Lazyb:   So what happens say end of Agust when you figure that the summer flows have ended, pull off your supers and start open feeding.  Meanwhile you "neighbour" bee keeper a couple of miles away has been busy and  doesn't take his supers off till the end middle of September.  You've just contaminated their honey with two weeks worth of sugar water.    Same thing can happen in the spring.  I had a very strong hive put away 50 lbs of dandelion honey by mid May last year.   Up here this is a time when many hives still need supplemental feeding.

If you haven't surmised it yet,  I'm against any type of open feeding unless you live in a remote area and know for sure there isn't another bee keeper within 5 miles.   Bees normally forage 1 to 2 miles, but in a dearth they will go a lot further.
Title: Re: Spring Feeding for buildup!
Post by: LazyBkpr on January 16, 2014, 06:05:45 pm

Lazyb:   So what happens say end of Agust when you figure that the summer flows have ended, pull off your supers and start open feeding.  Meanwhile you "neighbour" bee keeper a couple of miles away has been busy and  doesn't take his supers off till the end middle of September.  You've just contaminated their honey with two weeks worth of sugar water.    Same thing can happen in the spring.  I had a very strong hive put away 50 lbs of dandelion honey by mid May last year.   Up here this is a time when many hives still need supplemental feeding.

If you haven't surmised it yet,  I'm against any type of open feeding unless you live in a remote area and know for sure there isn't another bee keeper within 5 miles.   Bees normally forage 1 to 2 miles, but in a dearth they will go a lot further.

   As I used the neighbors extractors previously, we tend to KNOW when the other is pulling their supers and we all plan and work together extracting..  My extracting room with the larger extractor is the plan this coming year..    Fortunately, there isnt anyone else within about 8 miles of any of us to worry about.. if there was we would be coordinating with them too..  Were not city folks, were not going to purposefully mess up someone else. 

   If, on the off chance someone new decides to do that to us, well, they wont be doing it again. Thats the benefit of living rural and knowing everyone.  Get along, help each other, or face the consequences. It isn't easy to live in a small community when no one likes you. Law doesnt come into play as much as right and wrong do around here. The Closest law is about 40 miles away. If you are going to need the police for something you need to call them about an hour in advance.

   theres a fellow lives about 4 miles from me that I do not like, and not many of us do like him, hes one of those rich types that uses his money to get his way. He ended up in surgery for a blood clot in his leg about three years ago, and I was one of those picking his corn.   I dont like the guy, but letting his crop rot in the field would just be wrong. I never told him i had our combine in his field, and he never asked, I'm sure he knows who helped, but thats how we get along the best.

   I understand WHY you don't like open feeding, but once again, as in many things beekeeping, it turns into a situational method.  If you dont get along with the other beeks in your area then you have to do what you have to do. Thats one of the reasons I moved back here. WAY too many people who dont give a hoot about their neighbors in them crowded places.


   
Title: Re: Spring Feeding for buildup!
Post by: Jen on January 16, 2014, 10:17:04 pm
Actually I hadn't even heard of open feeding until I saw Lazy's new feeding table. And I like the idea of having the bees come to the feeder. Still thinking about this one ~
Title: Re: Spring Feeding for buildup!
Post by: pistolpete on January 16, 2014, 10:42:31 pm
So basically we are in agreement LazyBkpr.      The vast majority of us don't have the luxury of knowing every other bee keeper in the vicinity, let alone being able to co-ordinate with them.  I just didn't want new bee keepers jumping on this idea of open feeding without knowing the risks involved.    The risks as I see them are: 1)adulterating someone's honey with sugar, 2)inciting robbing, 3)attracting pests. 
Title: Re: Spring Feeding for buildup!
Post by: LazyBkpr on January 16, 2014, 11:54:03 pm
I would have to say yes, in so much as feeding when there is a chance they might have supers on. Feeding in early spring before there is a flow?
   I suppose there is a chance someone may throw supers on the moment the weather starts to turn, but I doubt the bees will be as interested in filling them as they will be interested in building up and replacing resources in the brood chambers, so I still believe that open feeding in early spring is more beneficial than harmful, but I will agree that everyone has to make that choice for themselves, and their own situation, so I digress.
Title: Re: Spring Feeding for buildup!
Post by: Jen on January 17, 2014, 01:21:57 am
Crof and Lazy ""I just didn't want new bee keepers jumping on this idea of open feeding without knowing the risks involved.    The risks as I see them are: 1)adulterating someone's honey with sugar, 2)inciting robbing, 3)attracting pests.""

I am a new beekeeper, three years. I live within the city limits. Nobody knows I have a hive in my backyard, if the city finds out, I have to move it somewhere else and that will greatly distress me.

In the 'feral bee' thread I posted some black butt bees that visit my hive and the story is there as well.

Okay Boys! please explain the risks listed above. Thank you kindly 
Title: Re: Spring Feeding for buildup!
Post by: Slowmodem on January 17, 2014, 04:07:25 am
Actually I hadn't even heard of open feeding until I saw Lazy's new feeding table. And I like the idea of having the bees come to the feeder. Still thinking about this one ~

I bought a feeder from Kelley's that holds 6 jars, and I can put pollen on the bottom shelf if I want.  It works ok.

(https://worldwidebeekeeping.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F2.bp.blogspot.com%2F-UkBz5xDR2Pw%2FUT3wWCqLcNI%2FAAAAAAAAAJ8%2FAy15zUkk-qk%2Fs1600%2F2013-03-10_18-50-58_869.jpg&hash=975503c941aac8647a586aabe94ba2da6931db8c)
Title: Re: Spring Feeding for buildup!
Post by: tecumseh on January 17, 2014, 05:41:45 am
a snip...
last fall had raised a queen she hatched do not know what happened.

tecumseh....
trying to rear queens and get them properly mated outside of spring time can be difficult.  first off as the season comes and goes the drone population varies quite a bit.... if the season is unusually dry (I might expect the same thing if your area was unusually wet) to the point where food resources coming in the front door are very limited the sperm viability of any drone that does hatch may be very small.  so you may appear to still have drones at the time you are rearing queens but the drones that can mate are essentially shooting blanks.
Title: Re: Spring Feeding for buildup!
Post by: LazyBkpr on January 17, 2014, 11:16:30 am

   Jen. I open feed because I am cheap and lazy. Two feeder stands can take care of dozens of hives, so i do not have to open every hive every time I need to refill the feeders. I dont have to go buy, or build 20 or 50 feeders, one for each hive. I have a few hive top feeders and a few Boardman feeders to use if I need to feed a single colony rather than all of them.
   In your situation.. one or two hives, I doubt you would have to worry greatly about filling a neighbors honey super with sugar syrup.

   Jen, you live in a city, I can assume from your post that your city frowns on keeping bees within the city limits?
   Are you relatively certain that no one else has a secret hive in their yard?
   I guess for you it all depends on the circumstances.  Knowing what little I do of your situation, I would not fear putting a jar of syrup out near where I could sit and watch the bees feeding. They will probably not need it after early spring once people start their flower gardens. I would think having bees in the city would be somewhat advantageous in that people will water their flowers and potted plants so there will not really be a dearth. A single quart or half gallon jar is not going to contribute large amounts of syrup to a neighbors honey supers, even if he decides to plop them on at the FIRST signs of warmer weather.

   Risks?  A lot of bees will gather about the feeder, someone may see it? If done before spring flow, little or no risk of contaminating someone elses super. Summer and fall risks? Depends on if there are other secret beeks nearby. I would not hesitate to feed late fall when supers SHOULD have been removed, leaving time for them to dehydrate and cap the syrup so they are prepared for winter..  "IF" they need it. If the hive is packed nicely full of honey then there isnt much advantage to feeding late.

   The purpose of this thread was to see what people fed and when, but the disagreement did make me think a bit more about open feeding, and slightly modified how I think, with the exception of early spring feeding for build up.
   The hives will probably be pretty light, if not empty. A honey super on top would collect little if anything while the bees began ramping up production. I want to do splits by early to mid May, so feeding before the flow will give my hives a boost to production.
   So, if possible, can we return to the threads intent?
   Spring feeding for buildup
   If you use an internal feeder to do that.. GREAT.. Tell me about it please? So how do you feed pollen and pollen Sub? I have seen buckets on their sides, jars set on their sides. Even cookie pans filled and simply set out for the bees to find..
Title: Re: Spring Feeding for buildup!
Post by: Perry on January 17, 2014, 12:21:21 pm
Sugar syrup this spring (I didn't last year), 1 to 1 for build up. Pollen patties get slid in the first warm day in March. I lift the inners just enough to determine where the cluster is, and slide a patty as close to over top of it as I can without crushing too many bees, and close it up.
In the first picture you can actually see some of the wax paper from fondant patty they have pulled down from above the inner cover hole.
These were from this past year obviously!  ;D

(https://worldwidebeekeeping.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi664.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fvv1%2FPerryBee%2FHandholds004_zpsd2896c44.jpg&hash=eca5458f15973d6c8bca7b39658d666bd68214eb) (http://s664.photobucket.com/user/PerryBee/media/Handholds004_zpsd2896c44.jpg.html)
(https://worldwidebeekeeping.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi664.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fvv1%2FPerryBee%2FHandholds006_zps8f36c369.jpg&hash=64d3adc84424826fc7008f4c9e4eaf29b3ad4d5c) (http://s664.photobucket.com/user/PerryBee/media/Handholds006_zps8f36c369.jpg.html)
(https://worldwidebeekeeping.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi664.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fvv1%2FPerryBee%2FHandholds003_zpsf6bf56dc.jpg&hash=831cba9ea0bd101c65b7896d3f499ee6e1ba4834) (http://s664.photobucket.com/user/PerryBee/media/Handholds003_zpsf6bf56dc.jpg.html)
Title: Re: Spring Feeding for buildup!
Post by: Jen on January 17, 2014, 02:39:47 pm
Pistol- ""Meanwhile you "neighbour" bee keeper a couple of miles away has been busy and  doesn't take his supers off till the end middle of September.  You've just contaminated their honey with two weeks worth of sugar water""

Explaination please  :) 8)
Title: Re: Spring Feeding for buildup!
Post by: Perry on January 17, 2014, 03:02:23 pm
It is not good practice to open feed your bees when someone within a 2 mile (minimum) radius has honey supers on.
I have had to shut down two of my yards because a huge commercial keep was open barrel feeding his hives in August! I have honey supers on in August and I don't want my bees bringing back sugar syrup and adulterating my crop. I want my bees bringing in nectar.
Title: Re: Spring Feeding for buildup!
Post by: Jen on January 17, 2014, 04:11:20 pm
Okay! I'm going back to page one and start reading from the beginning! Sooo much info here. :D:D
Title: Re: Spring Feeding for buildup!
Post by: Jen on January 17, 2014, 10:57:21 pm
pistol-  ""any pollen supplement without at least 20% real pollen from your own hives is of questionable value.""

This is a concern of mine. I do buy pollen from my local beek, but I'm afraid of cross contamination with AFB
Title: Re: Spring Feeding for buildup!
Post by: minz on January 18, 2014, 01:21:28 am

I go to a local brewery and get spent brewer's yeast. Mix 80% brewers yeast, 10% sugar, and 10% soy flour. That's my pollen sub. If I had raw pollen, I would mix it in, too.

Do they  give away the brewers yeast or a small charge? Portland is turning into a real Mecca of little micro-breweries, Maybe call around and see if I can get a 5 gallon bucket of it. I think I am too small to buy any quantities or take a truckload of it.
I got a couple of buckets of sugar from a guy here that was almost free. He gets totes of floor sweeping and conveyor sugar (looks almost like divert). I could really get something going here.


Title: Re: Spring Feeding for buildup!
Post by: iddee on January 18, 2014, 09:58:43 am
I think the small amount we were charged more or less paid for the container it was in. Very little for what we got.
Title: Re: Spring Feeding for buildup!
Post by: Perry on January 19, 2014, 10:20:02 am
pistol-  ""any pollen supplement without at least 20% real pollen from your own hives is of questionable value.""

This is a concern of mine. I do buy pollen from my local beek, but I'm afraid of cross contamination with AFB
I use Global Pollen patties with 15% real pollen (I get a kick out of the "real" part). The pollen is irradiated to remove any chance of AFB introduction.
Title: Re: Spring Feeding for buildup!
Post by: Jen on January 19, 2014, 02:26:01 pm
Perry- do you think that the irradiation might compromise the nutrients in the pollen?
Title: Re: Spring Feeding for buildup!
Post by: efmesch on January 19, 2014, 04:29:57 pm
Jen, please excuse me for butting in, after all your question was addressed to Perry.

Sterilization by irrradiation is not like atomic radiation .   It's better compared to turning the microwave on and then off.  Turn it on and it heats.  Once turned off, the microwaves cease to be present and are of no potential danger whatsoever.  So too with sterilization by irradiation.  After the process has ended the irradiation is gone.

Re-reading what I wrote,  I might not have answered your question.  I'll go back to the microrwave oven.  You can over cook and ruin your food.  You can over radiate and posssibly compromise the patties.  The firms that use radiation make it their business not to reach that stage.
Title: Re: Spring Feeding for buildup!
Post by: Jen on January 19, 2014, 05:23:28 pm
Thanks ef! Always appreciate your input! Yes question answered.
Title: Re: Spring Feeding for buildup!
Post by: tecumseh on January 19, 2014, 06:55:03 pm
thanks for the explanation efmesch. 
Title: Re: Spring Feeding for buildup!
Post by: Perry on January 19, 2014, 07:27:26 pm
Ef certainly answered it better than I would have, and I think I just learned something new today.  ;)
Title: Re: Spring Feeding for buildup!
Post by: Slowmodem on January 19, 2014, 08:39:15 pm
Jen, please excuse me for butting in, after all your question was addressed to Perry.

Sterilization by irrradiation is not like atomic radiation .   It's better compared to turning the microwave on and then off.

It's my understanding that most mail is irradiated nowadays because of the anthrax and stuff.
Title: Re: Spring Feeding for buildup!
Post by: efmesch on January 20, 2014, 03:57:49 am
It's my understanding that most mail is irradiated nowadays because of the anthrax and stuff.
How do they handle that with email? ;D
Title: Re: Spring Feeding for buildup!
Post by: LazyBkpr on January 20, 2014, 08:33:27 am
It's my understanding that most mail is irradiated nowadays because of the anthrax and stuff.
How do they handle that with email? ;D
   I believe the same way they handle irradiating Fax's    ;D