Worldwide Beekeeping
Beekeeping => General Beekeeping => Topic started by: LindsayBrower1 on January 09, 2014, 09:51:08 am
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Hey everyone! I'm feeling a bit of pressure to get my bees ordered now so I'm guaranteed to receive them in spring... On that note I've been doing as much research possible ( around taking care of my kids and husband LOL) but I haven't confidently made a decision on what I should order! Nuc? Package? I'm also nervous about who I order from since I am new to this! I have made the decision to start with 2 ! Just hoping for a little bit of guidance for a newbie. I know that the nucs are established colonies etc. but it seems to me as long as the bees are slowly introduced to the queen that they will be fine. So is a Nuc really worth the extra $100 each?
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Let me apologize ahead of time for any questions that may be dumb :laugh:
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Oh my.. you have your hands FULL!!!!!
Nucs... have drawn frames and a queen that is already introduced and laying. You simply let them get well built up in their Nuc box, and switch the frames over to your hive box..
Packages... They have no drawn frames and start from scratch. You have to introduce the queen to them as well. Depending on how you get the packages, they may have already had a few days to get to know her Pheromones so it isnt often an issue.
Packages are usually cheaper than Nuc's.
Given the choice if cost wasnt an issue I would do Nuc's providing you can find someone local that has them in the correct frame size. 5 frame Nuc is preferred over a two or three frame Nuc. More bees and the 5 frame nuc is usually a standard item that you can order a second box for if you choose to build them up to ten frames before you hive them.
A package, you just start in your hive.. Pull the cork and let them chew their way to the queen through the candy.
So, if you can, find someone local to get the nuc's from. You'll get bees acclimated to your area. If you can't then by all means order the packages!!
No such thing as dumb questions in Beekeeping!!!!!!!
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Actually a nuc shouldn't be much more than a package in price after you take shipping in consideration. Find you a local keep that sells nucs. You are further ahead on a nuc they have a laying queen brood and drawn comb versus a package that will be started on foundation. A plus is a nuc is a whole lot easier to start out with than package bees.
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Thank you!! I didn't sleep much last night between my sick husband and not being able to shut my brain off thinking about bees... Putting everything together in a fashion I can call step 1,2,3.. So on seems to be overwhelming at some points haha. Just have to put this puzzle together! I'm going to youtube some videos about what to do with the Nuc once I receive it etc.
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nucs are a great choice lindsay, and you won't regret purchasing these. most beeks who sell them can also give some advice as to hiving them.
don't be shy to start a thread on it if you would like here and ask for advice as well!
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Let's compare prices.
Go buy a package and 5 frames with foundation.==xx dollars.
Go buy 5 drawn frames of comb= 75.00
10 lb. of honey and pollen=75.00
1 package of bees==xx dollars.
1 nuc==xx dollars
Now do the math, and consider the nuc will be 45 to 60 days ahead of the package, in a short NY summer.
Add that to the bonus of a beek mentor if you buy the nuc locally.
PS. The dumb question is the one that doesn't get asked, so as long as you ask it, it's not a dumb question.
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Thank you Riverbee! O:-)
Idee- awesome breakdown! That really put things into perspective ! 2 nuts it is!
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Nucs* got to love spell check :D
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Darn, you corrected it. I thought you were ordering me and Perry.
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Darn, you corrected it. I thought you were ordering me and Perry.
:D :D
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Darn, you corrected it. I thought you were ordering me and Perry.
hahahahah.... Ideee beat me to it!!!!!
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Lindsey,
Nucs are the best way to start out if one can afford it. With the rising costs, the difference between a nuc and a package can be the deciding factor if folks can afford to start or not.
About the best deal around here is Jester nucs from Betterbee on April 26th. -> http://www.betterbee.com/Products/Live-Honey-Bees/5-frame-Jester-Nuc
Glad to hear you are planning to start with 2 hives. We didn't even get to cover that yet, so you are ahead of the class now :o
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What a scary thought :o Ordering a iddee and perry and the possibility of getting them. ??? I won't sleep good tonight. :laugh: Jack
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What a scary thought :o Ordering a iddee and perry and the possibility of getting them. ??? I won't sleep good tonight. :laugh: Jack
LOL Yeah, I know the feeling!!!!
(https://worldwidebeekeeping.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fs16.postimg.cc%2F41h5b5535%2FDoctor_Perry.jpg&hash=45f9586b18f86d09409e1875139fa1f6af2f320e) (http://postimg.cc/image/41h5b5535/)
You can tell by the look in my eyes!!! I was supposed to GRIN like Perry is, then, I thought about them rubber gloves...
(https://worldwidebeekeeping.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fs15.postimg.cc%2Facn9uim93%2FDSCF0008.jpg&hash=aeb5819dfe090416f3f0ecc924a36aa31fb66579) (http://postimg.cc/image/acn9uim93/)
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The best part is, Iddee and me are cheap. Shipping isn't free though! :P
Lazy, you're worried?? Just imagine how someone might feel with you coming at them with those baseball gloves you got on!! :o
Lindsay, the advice you have received is excellent. Nucs, nucs, nucs, failing that, then packages.
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I won't buy another package again. My experience has been poor with them. Nucs will grow faster and are stronger in general. Most packages in my region are $85 to $125 and nucs $125 to $150. If you area paying $100 on top of a package price, that is, in my opinion, too high. I like to get my bees from swarms in May. I have averaged 8-9 swarms per season and that is not counting the cut outs and trap outs. That would be my legitimate recommendation for obtaining your bees if you were so equipped to capture them.
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LOL Perry.. with the leather and cloth gloves its easier to pretend NOTHING degrading is about to happen!!! :laugh:
I have ten LOCAL Nuc's ordered for spring at $85.00 ea, but I provided the Nuc boxes. I made this arrangement to benefit both of us. His queens/bees/frames in my boxes.
Finding someone local will have more benefits than is immediately apparent.
I will be helping one beekeeper go through Nuc's to catch queens he needs to ship or deliver. Another I will be aiding doing spring splits, and a third has promised to show me his grafting method in return for helping him set up those grafts and starter colonies.. I get to learn their methods, and make good friends.
So ask some questions, find a local club. Take a local beekeeping class or two, or three, and don't be afraid to ask questions and talk to people. The majority of those folks will be happy to talk, and probably help.
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Thank you all! And Perry's gloves are a bit intimidating I might add :laugh:
Love the feedback... I needed to reassure myself that spending a little more had its benefits. I'm happy to spend the extra money if I know I'm in better standings. I like to do things right the first time! In my opinion that is the real money saver..
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So ask some questions, find a local club. Take a local beekeeping class or two, or three, and don't be afraid to ask questions and talk to people. The majority of those folks will be happy to talk, and probably help.
I've taken 1 out of 2 classes with Rob, my next class is the 18th... He also lives about a mile away from me ( very exciting haha! ) I sound like a stalker! I can't help it I love people who are into the things I aspire.. My next step is to Jin our local club and offer some volunteer work in hopes of some real life experience. I would happily help with any job even honeybee removal would be amazing to be apart of. I don't look like much of a country girl but I bet I could really shock some people lol! Like if I told you I race dirtbikes April- October :laugh:
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My first year I bought 2 packages and they both died by JAN. My fault probably . The next year I traveled 3 hours to get my bees {nucs} . That was 3 years ago I have not bought bee again and I'm sell nucs this coming spring as long as things go alright and I have a good winter survival rate. so far I have had no dead outs out of my 13 nucs and 12 DBL. deeps.
I'd try to get local nucs or at least in you state . good luck.
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Lindsay,
I think the issue has been pretty well covered for you. I agree with the consensus, short of money being the issue, or the fact that you just simply want to experience doing a package...NUCS are a MUCH better choice for all the reasons mentioned.
I caught bee fever in late October of 2012 and got my start by purchasing two Nucs on January 13th of 2013. I can still remember the anticipation, excitement, enthusiasm...and confusion over wanting to make the right decisions that you are dealing with now. Through swarms and cutouts, I've grown to 10 hives...So fair warning, the hobby is quite addictive. :D
I will give you one word of caution concerning purchasing Nucs, I had a great experience, but know others who have been disappointed. Understand, there is no definition as to what qualifies as a Nuc. Try to deal with someone with a good reputation, and know what you expect to receive.
Things to be aware of...
Not only how many frames, but what's on them. There should be plenty of bees, all frames should be drawn out and contain either eggs, larva, capped brood, pollen and honey, or some combination there of. It's kind of nice to see the queen, but I wouldn't say absolutely necessary.
Different folks do it differently, when I purchased mine, I supplied the Nuc box and arrived about mid day. With me there, he opened the Nuc, to transfer the frames to my box...Showing me the number of bees, realizing some were out foraging, helped me spot eggs, located and pointed out the queen. I then returned after dark, closed them up, and took them home. It was truly a GREAT experience.
Do some homework and asking around, If you can find someone to offer you a similar experience, it's more than worth the money and your chances of success will be much, much higher.
Good Luck, and keep us posted on your journey as a Beek. :)
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Well said Moots!
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Thanks Glock! And Moots that is amazing! 10 hives! I'm sure I'll be in the same boat too one day ! I've got some good information from a local who is helping me with information on where to buy my bees. I also found a beekeeping group a few towns over that meets on Monday ! I will be attending that to get some additional exposure. I plan on ordering my bees tomorrow ;D
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with nucs you have decent chances of harvesting some honey. Not much, but still ...
Little or no chances of harvesting from packages in your area.
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Keep in mind, you don't have to wait until a super is fully capped to have a harvest. When 1 frame is fully capped, you can take it and put an empty frame in it's place. Then crush & strain the one frame, or cut it up for comb honey. Then look for a full super the second year. A medium frame will give you a quart "liter" of strained honey.
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I plan on ordering my bees tomorrow ;D
Good job on the contacts and meeting!
grats on ordering the bees!!
Now the anticipation builds!! The excitement, joy,and TERROR when they come home!!! LOL Welcome to beekeeping!
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The minimum for a package would be a 3 Lb to have the bee population to build all the comb needed for the first round of combs for the queen to lay in. A 2 lb package will do OK if given drawn comb for the queen to start laying in. But as Iddee stated a nuc will have a 2lb population of bees with another 2 to 3 lbs of bees that will emerge over the next 3 weeks. Going with a nuc is much less frustrating than waiting for the bees to draw wax and for the hive to slowly build up.
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a snip...
Let me apologize ahead of time for any questions that may be dumb
tecumseh...
as I have said on numerous occasions to a long list of new beekeepers there are NO dumb question... actually the closest thing that comes to a dumb question is the one you should have asked but did not.
I pretty much sell nucs each and every season. There are advantages to these in that everything is established and they have about a 60 day lead on any package of bees you might buy. There are of course disadvantages to the nuc as well since you are much less likely to obtain diseases from a package. For some endeavors like top bar hives and some of the more unusual sizes of equipment nucs may also either impractical or totally unavailable and therefore package would be the only choice.
Over the years I have made up lots of package (quite typically while working for some commercial concern) and one real plus for these is when you do install them properly on new equipment, seeing that small set of bees go from nothing to a full and thriving box of bees is almost something magical to witness. a lot of folks who experience failure in the installation of a package simple do not feed a package enough to get them off to a proper start.
one also need to be careful in comparing cost since all things are not created equal. another problem is if you are in the market for a package you do need to order these early and not later... often times with nucs on the other hand it is not unheard of for folks to have a few of these made up as extra or as replacements for hives lost so you don't normally have to worry so much about these being totally unavailable.
I would guess your first choice should wrap around 'what kind of bees do I want' for my specific location < choice of stock in almost any kind of agricultural setting is the most critical decision you will make at the front side of things. as far as my own OPINION on these matter (and not wanting to fluff any feather here) any talk of 'local adaptation' is likely more a sales lines than anything approaching reality. choosing the right kind of bee for your specific area should be your first concern <typically I would ask any local beekeepers what kind of bee (we use to call these races of bees) that they use and why do they like them and proceed from there.
there are any number of good beekeeper in New York state so I would guess no matter what choice you do make you will not have to go far to obtain exactly what you are looking for.
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Ah, Tec, your last post reveals your romantic attachment to bees. It's a good thing to see in a grizzled old fart such as you.
I agree with the above posters that all things being equal a nuc will grow into a productive hive faster than a package, but I too think there is a lot of learning to be had from a package. I started with two packages two years back from last April, almost three years now. I installed three packages into second hand, used, equipment. I didn't have a mentor or any knowledge of beekeeping at that time. I viewed some "you tube" installation videos and used that wee bit of information to install the three hives. Two of those three hive are still alive and prospering. I fed them all summer, our area was in a serious drought, with a boardman feeder. From the beginning of the little pieces of pure white comb until there was brood in the frames, was an amazing educational event. It took me another year to really appreciate what the bees had accomplished under my amateur management, or lack thereof.
Yes, nucs are easier and that is the way I will go in the future, but watching a package develop into a hive is akin to watching a pregnancy mature. It's somewhat mystical and surely magical.
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Yes nuc's are the way to go for new or old beekeepers. People think they are saving a little money by buying packages, but by the time you buy all the sugar and the time you put into mixing and feeding them to get the foundation drawn out so the queen can lay in and honey stores, you will have more into them than if you bought a nuc. When buying a nuc, i want the queen to be the mother of the brood and eggs in that nuc and i want a 5 frame deep nuc. When buying a package, you are getting an unproven queen ( and over the years i've had several duds), then you still have to introduce the queen and take the chance she may not be accepted?The worker bees are dumped out of other hives and weighed, and if you ordered a 3 lb. package you will be lucky that two and a half lbs. arrives alive because there is no way of knowing how old the workers are that they send you. JMHO. Jack
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what jack just said, excellent post.....me too. that's how i buy my nucs.
i do buy packages from time to time, not often, for the most part, these are used for drawing comb.