Worldwide Beekeeping
Beekeeping => General Beekeeping => Topic started by: Zweefer on May 23, 2016, 10:07:29 am
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Went to check my bees yesterday and discovered a laying worker in one of the boxes housing the early package bees. Guess I'm shaking them out later this afternoon.... Just not my year for keeping :no:
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Zweef, I to am learning the difficulties of keeping queens intact. Consider it a year of learning the behaviors of queens. They have a lot to tell you ;)
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"a" laying worker? Meaning what? Lost on the description... there are usually dozens of laying workers.. you have multiple eggs per cell? Are you sure its not the new queen laying that way while she sorts herself out?
Not trying to second guess you, I'm not there, just want to make sure it is laying workers before you shake them out.
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No queen to be found, multiple eggs on side of cells and nothing but drone brood capped.
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Sounds like a laying worker to me. I have no personal experiance, just what I've read. Wasn't aware there could be more than one laying worker. Luck to you Zweef, Ted
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Yup, laying workers...
A (Singular) laying worker can lay one, possibly two eggs a day due to the underdeveloped/small size of her ovaries etc... So in order to get three to six eggs per cell as i have often seen, it takes MANY laying workers....
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What will shaking them out do? Won't the laying worker(s) just go back to the hive?
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Not if they remove that hive :). Ted
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Just ,talked about ,screenboard combination worked good
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CBT, I think the concept of shaking a laying worker hive is to go out 50 yrds. spray em down, with sugar ,shake all ,I assume the nurse bees don't make it back, your integrating them with your other hives
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Nurse bees will fly too. I dont spray them down, just take them out twenty or thirty yards away and shake them out.. The original hive is gone, some bees will fly about the area for a while, maybe even a couple of days if it is warm out, but they will all be forced to choose another hive and have to beg their way in. The queen pheromone, and brood pheromone in the new hive will quickly suppress the laying workers ability to lay. So, in effect, you strengthen the hives those bees decide to join, so you dont lose as much as if you had just destroyed them.
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The deed was done. I need to remind myself there is plenty of time left this season... I think everything is skewed because I got my packages so early this year. That and swarms appear to be a month early. It is throwing off my sense of time in terms of where they should be....
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The honey flow will also be early too.
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Zweefer, I'm sorry to hear of your laying worker situation. Sounds like you will have a good strong hives remaining. Good luck with it.
Out of curiosity Zweefer, what is your inspection regimen? What do you look for when you get into a hive? How often do you inspect? Just curious. :)
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I try to get in every 7 to 10 days, depending on weather and work schedule. This particular hive sat for 16 days between inspections due to life commitments and weather. (Just skipped an inspection and did it with the others next time)
Happy news on the other one though, was in today to check laying pattern and her majesty made an appearance
(https://worldwidebeekeeping.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fuploads.tapatalk-cdn.com%2F20160526%2Fcfe175e1ac60be013c9a903a71e42172.jpg&hash=6dc150377293209701da03e4c4953941bd99204d)
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In terms of what I look for, it depends on time of year and hive situation. With the new package bees, I am checking lay pattern, comb status (I am foundationless, so need to make sure it is being drawn straight), and volume (when do I need another box). With the larger hives, it's a quick in and out for swarm cells (I tip the box and look in from bottom, rather then pull frames and disrupt more than I have to) later on it will be to make sure they are not backfilling and restricting the queens ability to lay. Hope this answers the question Lburou?
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APIs- not so sure... We had frost come through and set s lot of plants back... Riverbee- how did El Paso fare in terms of the flora and fauna?
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Thanks Zweefer. I understand the timing now in your laying worker situation. :)
...It is throwing off my sense of time in terms of where they should be....
Yes, and every year has its variations too. :)
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Why are some Queens black an some golden with black tip ? ? Not trying to rob thread
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Different backgrounds/bloodlines... Italians are typically golden, Carnys are often dark/black etc... When they mix they will have a black tip or tiger stripes like the one in my avatar.
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Zweefer, that is one NICE looking lady right there!
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zweef, awesome pic and nice looking queen! sorry to read about the other!
"APIs- not so sure... We had frost come through and set s lot of plants back... Riverbee- how did El Paso fare in terms of the flora and fauna?"
good so far, threat of frosts, and amazingly no killing frosts like we usually get! dandelions were a bit early, not unusual, but nice for my bees this year and some earlier pollen sources. one i couldn't identify i had not seen before.........a really bright pinkish red? wish i had taken pix!
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Lost one of my nucs this year because of the weather.. the queen went bananas and FILLED every space she could with brood, then we got the over night freeze... I wasnt very happy about that, a queen that can lay like that is good to have, but I suppose it should fit into the category of wintering well...
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Just wondering. How long does it take for a queenless hive to turn out laying workers?
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As I understand it... Once the brood has Emerged, two weeks +/- for their ovaries to develop and start laying.
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David Burns has a nice video on laying worker hives. Check out his you tube site. If you belong to a bee club. Ask someone. They might be able to sell you a nuc. Ask if they can give you a frame of eggs too with plenty of nurse bees. You can fix your hive with a frame of eggs. Nurse bees will make a queen if they have eggs. Your hive is not dead yet. Any hive can be fixed if you can get the right resources to fix it. Local northern nucs should start coming in soon. Swarming season is starting now. I picked up two nucs for 70 dollars apiece from a club member that wanted to get rid of them.
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Thanks, I'll check out his channel
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David Burns has a nice video on laying worker hives. Check out his you tube site. If you belong to a bee club. Ask someone. They might be able to sell you a nuc. Ask if they can give you a frame of eggs too with plenty of nurse bees. You can fix your hive with a frame of eggs. Nurse bees will make a queen if they have eggs. Your hive is not dead yet. Any hive can be fixed if you can get the right resources to fix it. Local northern nucs should start coming in soon. Swarming season is starting now. I picked up two nucs for 70 dollars apiece from a club member that wanted to get rid of them.
It is a package I don't believe the queen ever got laying so it didn't have the resources to supersede. The bees are old and their die off rate will be ever increasing. Yes it could be saved if enough resources are thrown at it, but is it worth it?
Let the bees join the other package colony where they can boost the hive population which will allow the queen to lay a larger brood area that will speed up the development of the colony. Once the colony can spare the resources a nuc can be split off
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I asked the question about laying workers because I have a strong (lots of bees) split that raised 2 queen cells and for whatever reason they failed. I added a frame of eggs and young larva 3 days ago in hopes they will raise another queen. By the time that queen starts to lay they will be queenless almost 2 months. I'm not seeing any eggs from laying workers at this point.
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I have seen it take a way more time to have a queen back in the hive and laying than what it should be. If they don't draw cells there may have a slow queen in getting going. The frame of brood will not hurt the hive. If they need to make another queen, It will be 30 days till she is back in the hive laying, and another 3 week before her brood starts emerging.
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Thanks Apis