Worldwide Beekeeping
Beekeeping => Beekeeping 101 => Topic started by: neillsayers on November 30, 2016, 11:09:25 am
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I only have 3 hives so I realize this is far from an objective sample.
I had one hive winter over last spring and I made 2 splits with it. I introduced a purebred russian queen to one split and let the other raise its own. The russian and the original have done well, grown well, and kept low mite counts. The home raised hive has grown almost twice as well, while keeping mites at a level waaaay below the other two.
The nearest managed bees I know of are a little over 1 mile as the crow/bee flies and our property is adjoined by about 2000 acres of unbroken mature hardwood forest. I am sure there are ferals in those woods.
So I'm thinking either my beekeeping neighbor has some rockin genetics, or the cross with the local ferals made all the difference.
Having said that, I may find all these ideas evaporate after next years splits. :)
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Hopefully the local feral cross is the reason it did so well. Another possibility is that hive had the longest brood break, thus affecting mite populations the most. Watch them closely next year for a more accurate comparison. Best wishes.
Kelly
;)
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Every year I bring in imported queens in order to provide nucs early for those that want them early. I am of the opinion however, that locally raised queens are better. Not sure why, but I am leaning that way, enough so that I will be reducing the number of imported queens. This year I am trying to over-winter 30+ 5 over 5 nucs and if enough of them survive, those will be the nucs I sell to those wishing early ones. We cannot raise local queens up here until June.
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well to somewhat answer Perry's question... first there is the matter of selection of queen mother and drone mother hives and imho there are a lot of folks producing commercially available queens who are making their selection decision based on how often the syrup bucket shows up. basically those hives that respond most positively to syrup are selected for queen rearing purpose. secondly... one should never forget that purchased queens are most often shipped and it is not that uncommon to have them shipped over great distance. shipping can be very stressful on bees and anything that does go wrong will certainly impact the queens quality < feeding fumidil in queen cage candy is one small variable that has been know to reduce this stress in shipping.
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Thanks for the replies. :)
Perry,
There is a lot of info on the net about how locally adapted queens are out producing commercially reared ones. This is something I will be watching as I grow.
Tec,
No doubt shipping has to be a factor. It is rough on all livestock.
Kelly,
The split I introduced a purebred russian to was actually queenless for longer. I made two splits at the same time and one failed to requeen, so I had to hustle and order a replacement shipped in. That colony never did completely catch up with the other and although it has always had low mite counts, the other is far and away better.
My plan in the coming years is to select from my best survivors based on mite control, health, and finally honey production.
I tried swarm trapping last spring and although I had scouts checking them out I never did get a swarm. Maybe next spring will be better.
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Dr. David Tarpy at North Carolina State University has been encouraging local clubs in North Carolina to raise their own queens. He is hoping to build back pockets of genetic diversity that have largely disappeared with commercially raised queens. His group put on queen rearing seminars at various locations in the state several years ago.
Most hives will make it 1-2 years regardless of genetics and maybe even with lack of a varroa mite plan. That being said, if a hive can survive more than 3 years of my beekeeping, it has to be showing adaptability.
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That being said, if a hive can survive more than 3 years of my beekeeping, it has to be showing adaptability.
LOLOLOLOLOL! :yes:
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In my own mind, there are two distinct issues involved in rearing queens. First, is the genetic component, and second, the general development and health of an individual queen. These two issues get blurred in most discourse about backyard Queen Rearing.
You can provide an environment to produce the best nourished, best developed Queen on the planet...But if she does not have favorable genetics you won't be happy in the long run.
I don't expect to be the lottery winner who finds that 'perfect' feral queen, so I buy the best queens I can and treat each hive according to its performance. (Don't misunderstand me here, I keep feral catches every year and monitor how they do). I want/need a fresh infusion of genes every couple years. Everything I do for the bees is to provide the best environment I can for their success.
When my bees make another queen, I want them to have the resources and genes to produce a well nourished, well developed, disease resistant queen. That is what you can do that a huge queen breeder may not do. But, the huge breeder (not the producer) may have the superior genetics. That, in my view, is a good plan for long term success in your backyard beekeeping.
Get some good genetics in your apiary and produce your own well nourished, well developed, disease resistant queens. It works for me...Your results may vary. :)
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Thanks Lee :)
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Yes, in my foray into queen rearing, locally adapted/raised queens seem to do best and as Lee says, it helps to start with good genetics. But the other side that is found in an old axiom that goes something like this, a well nourished queen with poor genetics will outperform a poorly nourished queen of superior genetics.
Kelly
:bee:
I think this bee needs a Santa's hat, lol.
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queen nourishment boils down to well nourished nurse bees, doesn't it? Best to raise queens in a good flow?
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Believe you're right Neil, it's when they naturally want to reproduce too. Use that, especially if you only want a couple more. Have you checked into OTS queen rearing?
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Yes, in my foray into queen rearing, locally adapted/raised queens seem to do best and as Lee says, it helps to start with good genetics. But the other side that is found in an old axiom that goes something like this, a well nourished queen with poor genetics will outperform a poorly nourished queen of superior genetics.
Kelly
:bee:
I think this bee needs a Santa's hat, lol.
I won't quarrel with that Kelly, but my feral colonies have not made any honey, and they have mites too. After establishing their lack of honey production, they get requeened. :)
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I think we're on the same page Lee. In preparation for my 1st season of selling bees, I've gotten varing genetics from breeders, such as Russians, Caucasians, VSH & others' survivors to mix with my locally acquired survivor mutts. Will be getting a new interesting mix next spring/summer - the 'ankle biter' crossed with a new 'mite mauler'.
'
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The polyandry of honey bees make it almost impossible to control matings, my intent is to influence the feral bees in my area using my drones and swarms. The big breeders, our USDA bee labs, and the breeders affiliated with them, have the best chance of improving honey bee genes for us little guys. After all, how often can bees like Wayne's bees come along?
Kelly, my last ankle biter hive went queenless this summer and I had to requeen it. :)
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Next year, I will be raising a small number of queens for my own use.
I don't buy in queens but use my own local mutts as a source.
I hope to source eggs from colonies that have not needed additional feed during the winter. I will check my records to find the good yielding hives and the better behaved ones.
During the season, I will be recording hives with good and bad traits.
My aim will be to have hives suited to my local climate and beekeeping preferences.
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Barbarian, after an influx of varing genetics, I will hive similar criteria.
Mine will be headed by;
Winter survivability,
NATURALLY low mite counts/tolerance,
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...My aim will be to have hives suited to my local climate and beekeeping preferences.
Honestly, if I had real Buckfast queens available here, I'd try them at least...Have you considered Buckfast queens Barbarian?
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Lee, here you go,
http://www.rweaver.com/product_info.php?cPath=1&products_id=94
(https://s18.postimg.cc/kzsx106ud/Buckfast.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/kzsx106ud/)
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Lee, here you go,
http://www.rweaver.com/product_info.php?cPath=1&products_id=94
Yes, I've tried those. But RWeaver hasn't had any new buckfast genes for decades. The Buckfast available in England would be a different bee altogether now. :)
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Lee, what do you think of Ferguson up in Ontario, Canada?
Perhaps Perry knows of this apiary & their reputation...
http://fergusonapiaries.on.ca/queens-buckfast-stock/shipping-and-pricing
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Ferguson Apiaries is a well know breeder of Buckfast bees. He is advanced in age and a daughter is helping out quite a bit now. They are well regarded, even by some fairly well known names in the states.
My friend Adam and I bought 10 queens from him several years ago to try them out (5 each). All I can remember is they were unremarkable, but we are talking such a small number as far as comparison purposes goes a true comparison wouldn't be fair.
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I have heard of the availability of those Canadian Buckfast bees, but never been willing to pay the additional import costs. Thanks for the report Perry, it may save me some money and trouble.
Bees can recognize another bee that is not closely related to them, and in such cases are slow to accept that bee if she is a new queen. I had some Minnesota Hygienic bees and they were absolutely hostile to the introduced two RWeaver Buckfast queens. To the point they allowed one queen to lay TWO eggs, then killed her. They made two queen cells from those eggs. Those cells were constructed like emergency cells and were actually horizontal, touching the adjacent frame. I unintentionally destroyed the cells when I moved the frame as I inspected for queen acceptance. It took two more tries to requeen those bees. The other queen swarmed the next spring. My sample is small too Perry, but the outcome was clear enough that I don't want to try it again. Didn't like the hygienic bees either, too much propolis and a bit nasty. :)
The thought was that the Buckfast bee was developed in/for England, and may have a tremendous upside in that part of the world. A strong scientific effort has been undertaken to keep several strains of Buckfast bees in Western Europe. One of those queens would be worth trying if you live in England. Just saying... :)
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Lee .... Brother Adam developed the Buckfast bee in England. You would expect that this bee would be commonly used in England ...... this is not so. It is easier to obtain other types of Queens ...... Italians, Carnies, Irish, Greeks ..........
Listening to the local grapevine, there can be problems with introduction of a new Queen of a different strain. If the Q is accepted, you can get the immediate result you required BUT there can be unexpected unwanted features. These features may take a generation or two to show up.
At present, the National Bee Unit and the British BKA are encouraging beekeepers to use local native strains and avoid imported stock.
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That says a lot, thank you for clearing that up for us. :)
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Me and a few other beeks here are new to this hobby we know quite a few other beeks that are at a 10 mile distance with different genetics. We were thanking of possibility do a drone frame swap this spring to diversify drone geneswith feral and hive bees. Is that a good idea ?
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Me and a few other beeks here are new to this hobby we know quite a few other beeks that are at a 10 mile distance with different genetics. We were thanking of possibility do a drone frame swap this spring to diversify drone genes with feral and hive bees. Is that a good idea ?
If the genes are a net improvement, yes. If not, no. I suspect they are already mixing. A queen has been documented flying up to 11 miles to mate. Drones less than that. :)
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At 10 mile, not needed. Drones from their hives will be in your hives anyway. Drones "barhop" from hive to hive during the summer and may end up many miles from their birth place.
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Iddee , hope you ate feeig betye. We have 6 hives of Wayne's. Was worried when if we can split next yr. Whats going to happen to new queens genetic.?
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Mikey, how about editing your post. I ain't ate nuttin'.
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Hope you are feeling better.
Don't have a clue how that happened.?
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Wayne's bees have never been drone controlled. The resistance seems to travel with the queens.
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Speaking of drones bar hopping, a beek from Terrace, BC told me of a study where marked drones were found, like 100 miles away!
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I heard about a study done in Beaverlodge Alberta where they strung virgin queens out every mile, and then released a bunch of drones at mile zero. Drones found the queens at mile 20!
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Must be the same study Perry, and just like a fish story, things get bigger with time. Lol