Worldwide Beekeeping
Beekeeping => Pests and Diseases => Topic started by: omnimirage on February 23, 2018, 02:32:41 am
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Turns out that I have two different types of bucket lids for food grade buckets (with and without honeygates), and I've damaged some of them by trying to force lids onto buckets that don't fit. Other lids that, once sealed so tightly that I had to put my knee onto in order to lift, now can be lift with a pinky finger and many others, whilst sealed tightly, aren't as strong as they used to be.
I then buggered up and didn't process some honeycomb that was in a garbage bag, and wax moth ate through the bag and all the comb and now my whole honeyshed is infested with the moths. Then they got into a number of my buckets with the poor lids. I've been using the crush and strain method without a press and haven't had a way of processing the wax afterwards, so I have a build up of wet wax(poorly strained) buckets that moths have gotten into, and unprocessed buckets of honey honeycomb (I just directly scooped it into the bucket with a hivetool), one of which has a strong infestation of many larvae, webs and other gross things inside it, there's about 20 litres of honey all up in the bucket.
So I'm trying to get on top of this situation. I'm trying to identify which buckets are sealed properly. It seems that the seal is largely, if not entirely due to the lids. Some lids clearly seal very well, some clearly don't seal at all, and a number of them are somewhere in between and it's a little difficult to tell. I have some buckets that had honey in them, but I poured it all out so there's just some a sticky layer on the surface left, I'd like to leave these outside with some of the lids I'm unsure about, to test whether ants (and other critters) can gain entrance to it, but with the amount of wax/honey that I have, and with the amount of defective lids that I have it'll be a challenge, if not an impossible one to fit everything that I already have. I might have to go buy myself some more buckets soon. I've been buying second hand 27 litre mustard buckets, it takes a good day or two to clean them and remove the smell (I mostly sit them in water with bicarbsoda, might give them bit of a scrub and spray down with a high pressure hose), I get them cheap but I'm now wondering about the merits of such since they seem to lose their seal after being opened too many times (or it may be that the ones that don't seal anymore, are ones that I tried to force onto a bucket that didn't fit).
I want to bug bomb the honeyshed, there's dozens of moths flying around in there and I really don't want them to be in there. I'm then concerned about the moths that are in my buckets. I won't be able to do any stuff in the shed soon for a few weeks due to life reasons, yet I really don't want the wax moth to spread and thrive in my buckets. The bug bomb will only kill the moth in the shed, not the ones in the bucket.
I figure that I can burn and squish most of the bugs in the buckets. I'm wondering whether if I use a tightly sealed lid on the buckets, would the bugs eventually die in there due to a lack of oxygen? I just find it odd how my buckets that have gunk comb in them (mostly old used brood comb, but any comb that's rubbish but I decide to save to beeswax rather than burn) never seemed to have gotten a wax moth infestation in them and I'm not sure if that's due to chance or whether they need honey to thrive and infest.
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That sounds horrible. Garbage bags are notorious wax moth incubators.
Do you have any way to freeze a bucket of wax, at least one at a time?
I wouldn't want to expose my wax to a bug bomb and then use it for cosmetics or soap. Maybe candles? Wax readily absorbs pesticides.
Any chickens you can rent and turn them loose in your shed?
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I can't freeze them as I don't have a freezer larger enough to fit a bucket.
Plan would be to move out all the buckets, the bug bomb is to take out all the moths that are flying around in there.
Wish I had access to chickens!
I just ended up burning the top layer of infected comb. Took awhile due to the honey presence.
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wow, what a mess to deal with!
omni, do you have a local grocery store with a bakery? or a bakery shop near you? if so you might ask them for buckets. the bakers order fondant, icing and all sorts of other stuff for baked goods, in 3 - 5 gallon pails. the lids fit nice and tight, and are food grade. i have used these in the past when i ran out of regular 5 gallon honey pails.
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There's many bakeries around me! I'll have to ask them sometime. I ended up buying 6 used mustard buckets from a seafood fast food chain for a pretty cheap price and going through the process of cleaning them. They fit tightly, messing around with them last night suggests that I actually have three types of lids and buckets it seems, which is seemingly why a number of them don't fit. I'm gonna spend more time figuring it out today and then marking the buckets/lids with spray paint so that I don't get them mixed up again.
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omni, get the bakery buckets, no residue or smell! wash them out good to go! here they give them away, no charge. they throw them out unless you ask them to keep them for you.
just give the bakeries a call!
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I'll do that, thanks! :)
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I couldn't quite figure it out, but there appears to be maybe 3 types of buckets/lids out there, if not more. I moved all the buckets outside, adjusted the lids so that they were all sealed up well to best effect, wrote labels on each bucket about its contents, checked with wax moth about 8 buckets have been infected many buckets with honey in them, I can't feasibly crush and strain that many in the time frame that I have, so I'm seeking to buy a second hand freezer as soon as I can, so that I can just freeze the buckets and kill the wax moth inside that way. I couldn't find any long chest freezers, there's a few upright freezers, I figure I can just rest them on their side, I'm waiting back on the dimensions of these second hand freezers the people who posted these ads didn't mention such I need to know whether they actually have enough depth to fit a 27 litre bucket.
I moved out all the beekeeping gear and set the bug bomb off. It appears to be quite a low potent one, but it should do the job. I just need to be careful about not reinfecting the area with them via the moths out of the buckets, I made sure all the buckets that had moths had extra tight lids, and I hope I can find a suitable cheap freezer soon to buy.
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It was difficult to find a freezer that could fit buckets. The best I found just fits a single bucket. How long would it take to properly freeze to kill the moth off? One source said 10 days, and if that's true it'll take the rest of the year to freeze all my stuff :/
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If the freezer is working at a proper temperature, I would give it 2 days. It can take up to 2 days for a large container to freeze all the way.
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I've looked into it a bit and it seems that two days is more enough to freeze comb, whereas for a 27 litre/60 pound bucket, it'll take more than that. I'm not really sure how much more, I might try to stick a thermometer down there, but that'll be difficult because I don't have suitable thermometers and there's wax in the way. One has crystallised as well.
I managed to fit two buckets in there. I discovered one bucket is fermenting, and another may or may not be at the very early stages of fermenting, I'm gonna taste test it again tomorrow. Another has too much wax that I can't taste the honey, but it, like the rest of them, have such very low signs of moth that I think they're likely okay.
I've got one full day and one morning left to deal with this situation. I've decided that I'm going to try and render the beeswax that shows sign of moth, melt it all down. I've got a little under 5 27 litre/60 pound buckets worth of beeswax to process. I don't have suitable equipment to do this and I'm not sure how to go about it. I was thinking of putting the wax in cheesecloth, maybe even stockings and boil it, but I realise that, for this quantity, such doesn't seem to be feasible. I think I need to double boiler it and then pour it into some container/bowl through some cheesecloth, but then I'm not sure if I have the right set of pots to do it. I do have a metal bowl of somewhat decent size that's already been ruined by beeswax, it has a rubberbase on it, I'd imagine that'd be okay to boil. Otherwise I'd need to ruin a good pot.
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One of the UK suppliers has a kit called an Easi-Steam.
It consists of a steam generator plus other bits.
The idea is that the frames of old comb are put in a brood box. The whole set up is sealed and the generator switched on.
The inside temp rises to 105C. After 20mins water and wax gather at the bottom. The old comb and debris gathers on a mesh above the floor.
The frames and propolis remain and can be cleaned for re-use.
Several keeps have made DIY versions at low cost.
I have never used one BUT I might have a play during the rest of our winter.
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Sounds like a very useful tool to me! I saw a youtube video of someone using one, pretty impressive device it was!
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omni,
fermented honey........do you know anyone that likes to make mead or home brew? as long as there is no wax moth wriggling around in it...... :D
you could sell the fermented honey to the mead makers and brew makers. just a thought. seal it up tight, until you can find a buyer.
rendering beeswax.........i use a solar melter and other methods. the simplest method for you would be to use a stock pot. (stainless steel is the best). a size that would work for you. aluminum works, but i use stainless. you can find these used or pretty inexpensive.
stove top or hot plate. throw the comb/beeswax in the stockpot, pour water over the wax/comb to fill the stockpot about 1/4 full. turn your stove on medium heat. wait for the heat to melt your wax. don't let it boil. if you see it boiling, turn it off. heat will discolor wax if boiled or boiled at a high temp (not above 165 dF). i may let it bubble but crank the heat off when it does.
once the wax is melted. remove the stockpot from the heat and allow the wax to harden. once hardened, flop the beeswax out of the pot, empty the water outside, not down the kitchen sink. use a hive tool to scrape the debris off of the bottom of the wax cake, then take a stainless steel scrubby to rub off any debris missed that the hive tool couldn't get to.
when the wax is heated, honey/debris falls in to the water, and some of this will harden at the bottom of the wax cake. you may have to repeat this method to achieve your desired result and other methods to filter cleaner at a later date.
if you can, try to wash the beeswax/comb first: place in a 5 gallon paint filter in a five gallon bucket and wash it clean as you can with a garden hose, then put it in on the stove top, above method. i would not try to double boil beeswax/comb and try to filter it. you won't get the honey out or all of the debris. cheesecloth really doesn't work that well, but you can use old ratty t-shirts or similar material for later filtering.
any utensil or pot used in the process of refining/cleaning beeswax will be dedicated for that purpose............ :D
i have a number of threads on the forum of how i process beeswax, can post the links to these threads if you would like, most are in 'products of the hive'.
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I'm interested in attempting to make my own mead, good idea riverbee! :)
I've got it running now, it's been boiling for about 15 minutes. I'm using a double boiler was going to filter it through cheesecloth but I might try an old shirt instead. I bought a large pot very cheaply to melt wax in. Because of what you've said, I think I'll set up that and melt wax in two bots, one with double boiler and one without. I'm not entirely sure why you suggest to not use the double boiler method, I'm inexperienced with rendering beeswax but I was under the impression that such was the best method to melt on a stovetop.
Interesting about washing the wax first. A lot of my wax has a lot of honey in it still, it's a bit wet, should I wash this and then discard the honey water?
I'm not so fussed if there's lots of gunk underneath afterwards. I just need to deal with the moth, I can filter it at a later date.
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What's the purpose of washing the wax first? Should I wash just the sticky wax, or all of it?
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all of it omni........
cappings, washes all the honey and a great deal of debris out of it, making less work for you to the end result of melting and filtering the wax with whatever method is used.
you ought not to boil wax omni, boiling will discolor it. i see this on you tube, it is not necessary, i think folks think that this will 'boil' out all the junk. it might but you will darken your wax. water is necessary to release the honey from cappings and comb, but there is no need to boil it and no need to boil it for 15 minutes. i think the only time i might let wax boil is with old dark brood comb.
if you just throw any comb or cappings in a double boiler, and try to filter, you won't have clean wax, and it may not filter well.
double boiling of wax is best done AFTER the wax has been cleaned and filtered by another method. yeah i know, i see all these videos on you tube about rendering bees wax using double boiler method. it is a good method, although best done with clean or relatively clean wax, therefore requiring less filtering or final filtering.
if your wax has honey in it and still wet, wash it, discard the water. you will be amazed once you render the wax/filter it. little to no honey residue.
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Alright interesting thanks. So I've got a big pot going, I haven't got the time to let it cool down in the pot so after I've cooked it, I've just poured it straight into a bucket. It's very dirty in there since I didn't strain any of it out. Is it a bad idea to pour this stuff through an old t-shirt? Does it not work due to adding water into the pot? Is it best to just let it sit, then scoop it off the bottom? All the gunk hasn't appeared to settle at the bottom of it but its still settling.
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probably best if you just let the wax cool down in the original pot, but if you poured into a bucket straight away while it was still 'hot', all the gunk will settle to the bottom of the wax cake in the bucket you poured into. it's looks dirty now, let it settle. the junk will settle down to the bottom.
let it harden and settle omni. don't mess with it or try to pour through a t shirt or other filtering material for now. you can remelt and filter/refine later.
lol, gonna have a hard time trying to get the wax cake out of that bucket without a little coaxing........... :D
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By the time I melt down the next batch, the stuff in the bucket hardens, would it be okay just to pour it over the top? I figure it'll be quite a challenge removing wax from the bucket afterwards.
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you can omni, it will just harden over the first batch and might leak down probably to some degree of whatever crevice from the first batch in the bucket.
good luck!
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if you coat the buckets lightly with cooking oil the wax is easier to get out. I use a baking release spray. on most upright freezers the shelves are fixed & are part of the cooling coil system & cannot be adjusted. you mentioned laying one on it's side. all refrigerators & freezers need to be upright or the oil in the compressor will not be where it's needed & the compressor will fail. until you have time to build one you can put a pane of glass on top of a styrofoam cooler to make a solar wax melter. put a 2nd hand baking pan in the bottom & a wire rack with paper towels for a filter.
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what rober said about the simple melter!
doesn't even need to be styrofoam, any cooler works (without the lid). also a hive body. any sort of box contraption.
i have posted a pdf file on a simple melter made by a south african beek. the only thing i would do different is, use a square plastic tub. 1/4" hardware cloth, and window screen. clamp the hardware cloth over the tub/or pail, lay the window screen on top of that. if you want, use a sheet of bounty paper towel on top of that. put a little water in the bottom of your tub. lay your comb across the hardware cloth/screen/paper towel. put the glass on top and set in the sun. the hardware cloth holds the comb in place and keeps chunks from falling in, window screening and paper towel filter.
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I have a couple Styrofoam boxes that are for shipping frozen food. the sides & bottom are 3" thick. i can put crystalized jars of honey in it with glass on top on 70* days & it gets warm enough to melt the honey. you could probably find one at a fish market.
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I managed to get it all done. Had bit of a disaster, wax poured all over the pot and made a huge mess in the kitchen; my mother was very annoyed with me. The flame was from gas was exposed to wet warm-hot wax for possibly a few minutes which is pretty concerning. I've got three large buckets off solid beeswax now. They'll need a fair bit of purifying. All of the wax buckets looked like they had minimal, if any, signs of wax moth. The freezer goes down to -15c. I'm not sure how many days I should leave the infected honeybuckets in there, I'm thinking 4, but maybe 3 or even 5 would be better. The buckets show low signs of wax moth.
Does the cooking oil reduce the quality of the wax at all? Good to know about the freezer's air compressor! Thanks. That's a great idea, thanks rober.
Why would you use a round box riverbee? Is making round blocks of beeswax more practical? I like the idea of using hardware cloth with paper towel underneath. What would I do with the water afterwards?
Are all foam boxs just as good or are Styrofoam boxes better? What about glass, is there anything in particular that would work extra well? Is thick glass the best? riverbee mentioned window glass. I have glass from a car door but its not flat. I know someone who'd be able to build me something out of scrap stainless steel, would that be much better than a foam box?
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"Had bit of a disaster, wax poured all over the pot and made a huge mess in the kitchen; my mother was very annoyed with me. The flame was from gas was exposed to wet warm-hot wax for possibly a few minutes which is pretty concerning."
oops........... :D
i think jack has been banned from his wife's kitchen and probably some of the other guys!....... :D
this is what i dislike about wax on the stove top. and never throw water on it! you will ramp up a fire! use a fire extinguisher or baking soda.
although i am the einstein with an expensive wax melter that neglected to shut the valve when i poured melted hot wax back in it and 'waxed' my kitchen floor. i was barefoot......i guess that was a good thing, any shoes would have been relegated to attire worn outside.
i don't use a round box, i have a square solar melter and all my wax is filtered into milk cartons. nice bricks.
also omni, you want the paper towel on top of the hardware cloth not below it. as wax is melted, the paper towel filters as it runs through the hardware cloth. you can also use an old t-shirt or cotton material. (not cheesecloth). throw the water out, and not down the kitchen sink. the thickness of the glass doesn't matter. omni i can post plans for solar melters, i built my own, and many others have.
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that's why I've stated on several threads get an electric hot plate or portable propane burner & make all sugar syrup & melt all wax OUTSIDE. I've seen videos on you tube where people were uncapping & extracting honey in the kitchen. if I ever did that when my wife was thru with me i'd be a soprano. the hot plate is slower than propane but safer as there is no open flame. on the melter any glass will do but heavier glass will be less prone to breakage. a stainless steel box should heat up just fine. I only mentioned foam coolers because they require no fabrication, are readily available, & are inexpensive. my solar melter is wooden with an angled hinged wood framed glass lid. the wax goes on a wire rack with a paper towel or restaurant grease filter on top of the rack. the wax runs thru the filter, falls onto a sloped baking sheet, & runs down to a stainless steel pan of water. the pan is a repurposed pan from a restaurant steam table
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I have used glass as covers for my solar wax melters.
In time the glass has cracked. I think this must have been caused by the stress of the temperature variations.
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being a carpenter I come across a lot used glass. but if I was actually buying new glass for a melter i'd buy at least double strength window glass. single strength is especially prone to stress cracking. it's meant to hang vertically not laying flat.
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Is there much advantage to stainless steel over a foam cooler other than the stainless steel being physically tougher to break? I'm wondering if it's even worth fabricating something. I've got myself an electric stove top that I can use outside now. Why do sugar syrup outside as well? I didn't know there were risks with that.
Would a double strength window be better than plexiglass?
I didn't fully close one of my buckets with the heated down beeswax in it, and sugar ants have gotten into it. I've completely closed it now, but there's still a good dozen or so of these ants in there. I'm not sure if they'll die from a lack of water or oxygen, or if they'll cause damage to my beeswax in there, not sure if I should try to squish them or remove the beeswax from the bucket and maybe melt it again. Any thoughts anybody?
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"I didn't fully close one of my buckets with the heated down beeswax in it, and sugar ants have gotten into it."
(https://pli.io/W6J8Z.gif)
get them buggers out of there......... :D
lol, omni, just kiddin'........they will croak at some point. you said melted down beeswax? so, you just need to refine this to filter croaked sugar ants.
i can't answer your question about a stainless steel solar melter vs. a foam cooler.......anything works really. my solar melters are wood. as far as what window to use? i have used single pane, but had the unfortunate opportunity to use double pane (window replacements with flaws). they work great. single pane works great, just might get fogged or might even crack as rober said. if it works, use it until it doesn't! plexiglass works as well.
electric anything, vs, gas is always good. hot plate, stove top when it comes to messing with beeswax or sugar syrup. it's just messy stuff, (especially beeswax) and can start things on fire. most guys are not to proficient at not making messes when it comes to the kitchen or the wife's kitchen or your mother's kitchen............not saying you aren't but just saying.......... :D....... ;D
i don't cook sugar syrup anymore for winter feed........i just do no cook sugar bricks, less mess in the kitchen and less labor for me, and works just as good.
for 2:1 sugar syrup, i bring water to just a boil in stock pot, turn it off. line up buckets, dump sugar in, dump some hot tap water in stir. dump some hot water in from the stove top, stir. finish off with cooler water if need be. feed bees. that's it.
works for me, i usually don't have more than 5 or 6 hives. a couple guy beeks i know with more hives use turkey fryers to boil water in, in the driveway, just outside the garage. line up the feeder pails with sugar in and dump the water in. makes their wives happy......... :P
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Insulation to reduce heat loss is the most important. whether wood steel or foam cooler is used. cooler is insulated already. The ants are after the honey water under the wax. it should be good, I don't think they are eating the wax.
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Is weather wood, and steel two different things or?
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omni, keith meant whether it's wood or steel or foam cooler, it doesn't matter, as keith said, as long as there is some insulation of some sort to reduce heat loss. my wood solar melter is lined with galvanized tin, but the window is attached to the box and is seated with thick window insulation strips/tape or whatever it's called around the frame that rests on the box..... :D
this is to reduce heat loss. works well. also, like keith said, the ants are after the honey/honey water not the wax.
ps
sometimes we all misspell words when typing to answer a thread and sometimes the forum angels help out a little........ ;D