Worldwide Beekeeping
Beekeeping => General Beekeeping => Topic started by: Jen on February 06, 2014, 01:58:09 pm
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We are going to build our mediums. We went online to see what is the best wood to use. Pine and Cedar comes up. What's the difference? Keep in mind that if we choose cedar, it will be western red, not the perfumed cedar.
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I prefer pine but have used cedar
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I prefer pine, although western cedar has been used extensively.
ablanton, make one frame from that Juniper, aka cedar, and show us how well they draw comb in it.
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All of my frames are Mann Lake (pine?).
I wasn't sure how they would like these boxes, but they love them. One of my healthiest hives. It cast three swarms last Spring, and I still split it in July.
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No burr comb on the interior either, right?
I knew a guy in Mississippi that made 10 frames of cedar and put on a hive for 2 years. Not one spec of wax was ever put on them.
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Hmmm . . . never really noticed. But now that you mention it, I don't get all of the bridge comb on the outside frames like I get in a lot of my other hives. Heck, maybe I should start using this stuff for all of my hives!
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I was hoping these boxes may discourage SHB. No such luck. :sad:
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Find yourself someone with a wood planer & a table saw. Scout out some barn wood/1x12 pine. Alot of the stuff from the turn of the century was virgin timber that's still holding up to this day. Some good quality douglas fir does well in the elements if you're set on buying new lumber. People will tell you you're nuts but go for some 2x12 cut offs from a construction site. They hold together well with big fat ring shank(polebarn) nails(home depot, menards, etc). 2x4 handles will do you a world of good if you have to move them. If a bear ever gets into it, the box won't snap to pieces like the 1x lumber. I'm not a big fan of cedar because you have to countersink(drill) holes in it for screws, or pre-drill for nails to keep it from splitting. Sure it's heavy, but if you're not moving the hive around I'd hope. Take that old tire out of the garage and set the hive on that. Fill it full of dirt if you're in snake country...If you put the hive on a pallet, then lay bricks around the sides so you don't have any hiding spots. If you really want to cut corners buy one of those rafter t-squares & a skill saw. The t-square is your saw guide. I'd buy just one 9-5/8" hive body from the bee supply store/select grade pine so you have a hands on model to make your saw cuts/adjustments. Don't nail it together, just slide the finger joint corners together and maybe use 2 nails on each corner to keep it rigid if you need to mock it up for measures. If you have a countersink bit, you can tape the pre-drilled holes that are on the finger joints, hand screw a couple 1-1/4" screws to keep it tight. I used a brand new deep box that lives with the table saw for making fence adjustments when I'm cutting up lids, etc. The rest of the time that nice new deep box is my chair when I'm stapling frames & having coffee.
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People will tell you you're nuts but go for some 2x12 cut offs from a construction site. They hold together well with big fat ring shank(polebarn) nails(home depot, menards, etc).
Nobody calling you nuts, here. I build all of my hives with 2x stock, now. It's cheaper than 1x and insulates better. Seems more "tree" like, to me.
Don't know if you can tell from this pic, or not, but these hives are 2x . . .
(https://worldwidebeekeeping.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fs29.postimg.cc%2Fnpdy8rmoz%2FIMAG0336.jpg&hash=1f925192c067244a149aa9bb82523563bfbea3c8) (http://postimg.cc/image/npdy8rmoz/)
Mediums in the foreground, deeps in the background. (yah, yah. i know some people don't like to mix . . .)
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Hey Ablanton- I like the strength of your hives for sure. I don't know if that is you in the pic, but us older beeks need lighter weight boxes. And I love the mediums. That's what hubby and I are building very soon. I like that I can lift a medium by myself if I need too. I'm not able to lift a deep with honey on my own.
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*LOL* Wish I was that young! Those are my boys.
But, yes, even these 8-framers get heavy with honey.
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Nice looking boys Ab! Really nice to see how comfortable they are with the bees. Good Job!
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Nobody calling you nuts, here. I build all of my hives with 2x stock, now. It's cheaper than 1x and insulates better. Seems more "tree" like, to me.
Don't know if you can tell from this pic, or not, but these hives are 2x . . .
(https://worldwidebeekeeping.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fs29.postimg.cc%2Fnpdy8rmoz%2FIMAG0336.jpg&hash=1f925192c067244a149aa9bb82523563bfbea3c8) (http://postimg.cc/image/npdy8rmoz/)
Mediums in the foreground, deeps in the background. (yah, yah. i know some people don't like to mix . . .)
Seems like tree is a good way of putting it in regards to 2" thick stock. Any place I've found bee swarms were either mid 1850's era houses, or early 1900's buildings, with 2 or 3 layers off wood siding on top of itself. I think the bees like the thicker wood. You've probably got cold enough weather out there to tell us... If you put you hand on the 2x deeps, can you feel any warmth?
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well pine comes in several varieties also. what kind are you thinking of using?
for myself there are some things like cost, weight and workability that you may want to consider. almost any wood can hold up if you treat the outside properly... since various exterior treatments may not all cost the same this impacts total cost. of course if you don't ever plan to move a hive or participate in any manipulation then weight would not really be an issue.
at some point in time durability and repeatability also became an issue for me.... I still make some things (I guess I just like the smell of a wood shop) but things like boxes and frames I now buy.
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I would use white pine or Douglas fir. Both are easy to work and will be long lasting if well maintained. (painted) Cedar repels some insects, and although it some beekeepers have cedar hives I have never seen a swarm or a feral colony in or on a cedar tree. Just on observation….. And the juniper variety of cedar is a real pain to land owners in Texas. Just to be honest, I hate all things cedar.
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Thanks Everyone! We're going to go with pine. Light weight, easy to work with, durable. We don't have bears to worry about, and the climate is pretty agreeable for wear and tear :) 8)
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Both work well and the bees don't mind either The cedar having straight grain will split easier than pine so extra caution is needed when prying supers apart. You have to break the propolis with your hive tool or you can risk spiting the top rabbet off as depending on the bees and temp the propolis can be stronger than the cedar.
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Ha! You don't have to tell me about propolis. I had a toothache awhile back, put small pea size prop on the gum where the ache was. Toothache went away, never came back. Took me 4 days to get the prop off, was worried it was gonna bring the gold crown with it. I use prop for a lot of things.
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You ought to take a run at those naga chillies.
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???? Why ????
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I have both pine and cedar boxes (all home made). Cedar wood has a lot of essential oils in it that are anti fungal and anti bacterial. This makes cedar far less susceptible to rot in wet climates (provided it is the darker heart wood, not the light sap wood). Cedar is not very prone to warping once dry, but kiln dried cedar is hard to find. Most of the time you have to buy your cedar and let it dry out for a 1/2 year before building with it. Cedar is soft, you can dent it with your finger nail. That's fine for hobby use, not so much for commercial operations. Pine is a tougher wood, but much harder to find good quality stuff around here. The lodgepole pine around here has a lot of knots and most commercial woodenware is made from eastern white pine.
For me cedar is the winner for a couple of reasons: I can get mostly clear rough sawn 1x12 for 1$ per linear foot from a local log house builder. I love the way cedar looks and smells. It is very light weight. You can kind of see some of my 1.5" cedar brood boxes there.
(https://worldwidebeekeeping.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fs30.postimg.cc%2F43uj9oybh%2Fx_IMG_3586.jpg&hash=332b7f3041200fcae3271900d13f197c9e21b562) (http://postimg.cc/image/43uj9oybh/)
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Here is a picture of my laminated south american pine supers. Since I house my hives in sheds weather resistance is not an issue.
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Pine boxes and cedar bottom boards combo here. BB built from 2 x 4's, and 1 x 4's. Like it.
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???? Why ????
toothe ache
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Keeper ""You ought to take a run at those naga chillies.""
:D So the theory is that there is so much burning heat in the mouth that the tooth ache doesn't matter any more? :D
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great pictures pete, you too ablanton. i don't make any of my equipment anymore, except nucs, and they are all out of pine, had too much trouble with plywood. there's a beekeepeer in iowa who does some nice carpentry work on woodenware with different woods; basswood, ash, aromatic cedar and maple, and in pine. not sure i would pay the price of maple woodenware, rather have it somewhere in my house.... :D
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Riv- ""not sure i would pay the price of maple woodenware, rather have it somewhere in my house.... ""
I looove the hughes in Ash, so beachy, I had a desk once made from Ash. I would have a beehive in Ash any day!
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Keeper ""You ought to take a run at those naga chillies.""
:D So the theory is that there is so much burning heat in the mouth that the tooth ache doesn't matter any more? :D
Yup. Don't you see those weird knee-arthritis creams with capsaicin? Capsaicin is pepper oil. You don't eat the whole chillie...Daub some on a q-tip/wear some latex gloves(we keep them in the kitchen to keep from getting chilli finger eye rubs)... Squeeze a chilli/bhut jolokia, naga jolokia, caribbean red habanero, etc...the oil will run out/drip on the nasty ones. Target the one tooth and keep some strong espresso to swish your mouth out when it gets too hot. Instant coffee mixed strong.
Or let it burn good, and flood your brain with endorphins. After awhile, you get used to the heat.... It makes you breath heavy, you flood your system with oxygen...etc A good hangover is worse than a bad chilli pepper lol It sounds stupid, but it works well. Then cap it with propolis.... Throw a handfull of propolis into a bottle of everclear(or other 190 proof alcohol). The pure grain spirits, dissolves the propolis...Put it in an eye dropper type bottle, and drip it on a sore tooth.
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You can kind of see some of my 1.5" cedar brood boxes there.
(https://worldwidebeekeeping.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fs30.postimg.cc%2F43uj9oybh%2Fx_IMG_3586.jpg&hash=332b7f3041200fcae3271900d13f197c9e21b562) (http://postimg.cc/image/43uj9oybh/)
(https://worldwidebeekeeping.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fs30.postimg.cc%2Fmuwgjusvx%2Fx_IMG_3813.jpg&hash=65bf85e5b3b3c5e106eeb1f1f3729b40f82d2c8e) (http://postimg.cc/image/muwgjusvx/)
That box is inside of a shed? Garage?
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Keeper ""Or let it burn good, and flood your brain with endorphins. After awhile, you get used to the heat.... It makes you breath heavy, you flood your system with oxygen...etc A good hangover is worse than a bad chilli pepper lol It sounds stupid, but it works well. Then cap it with propolis.... Throw a handfull of propolis into a bottle of everclear(or other 190 proof alcohol). The pure grain spirits, dissolves the propolis...Put it in an eye dropper type bottle, and drip it on a sore tooth.""
GOOD GRAVY!! I can get the same effect with putting one bee on the outside of my cheek where the tooth ache is. I don't swell anymore, so it works fine.
And I have a recipe for propolis on Products Of The Hive, pretty much the same as yours. I don't use a dropper tho I just dip a Qtip in the bottle and place it right on the ache.
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Keeper ""Or let it burn good, and flood your brain with endorphins. After awhile, you get used to the heat.... It makes you breath heavy, you flood your system with oxygen...etc A good hangover is worse than a bad chilli pepper lol It sounds stupid, but it works well. Then cap it with propolis.... Throw a handfull of propolis into a bottle of everclear(or other 190 proof alcohol). The pure grain spirits, dissolves the propolis...Put it in an eye dropper type bottle, and drip it on a sore tooth.""
GOOD GRAVY!! I can get the same effect with putting one bee on the outside of my cheek where the tooth ache is. I don't swell anymore, so it works fine.
And I have a recipe for propolis on Products Of The Hive, pretty much the same as yours. I don't use a dropper tho I just dip a Qtip in the bottle and place it right on the ache.
Good repeat...Guys that are sharp will hear the cross-topic conversations and drill it into their own brains. Getting propolis out of boxes comes down to what you make your hive boxes out of. If you use some thick sap covered pine, that's just plain nasty to scrape off with the propolis and put it in your mouth. I'm a big one for 50+ yr old used boxes...It's all what your end goal is though. Good clean dry wood that's rot resistant is the best. I could tell you to soak the new box sections in linseed & turpentine....Dry it for a couple months, then paint the outside with oil-based tractor enamel. That will last you 30 yrs in the weather, no bs.
If you have a commercial beekeeper out there, have him soak some new select pine/bee store boxes in the wax melter tank!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! All day & all night is the trick/weigh them down with bricks. Then you know what you're scraping off for propolis is clean & food safe. I started 10 yrs ago...The guy that got me into beekeeping had hives like that(soaked in hot beeswax) long before I started. The box will come out heavier when you're done...So be forewarned, but it's worth the lifetime investment of the occasional manual rub-on-recoat IF YOU NEED TO.
Make sense?
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Yah! It does make sense! especially when the prop will come off clean. Thanks! :) 8)
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Pete, those some handsome deeps there.