Worldwide Beekeeping
Beekeeping => Pests and Diseases => Topic started by: keeperofthebees on February 09, 2014, 03:48:22 am
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I've seen all kinds of snakes moving around. Have any of you guys run into snakes under bee pallets on a sunny day?
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lol in a past life I was a herpetologist. there are no such critters as a green rattlesnake, that is this a no rattlesnakes that come to mind are green in color and snakes and of themself are not danger to you
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If it as a rattle snake it would not be under the hive in the shade but would be on the sunny side of the hive socking up the sun and the reflected rays off the side of the hive.
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We have some of those Garter snakes here. I had one yard in particular back in Lunenburg that was always and adventure when lifting hives (manually) to go to pollination. It was usually good for a couple of weird dances and some laughter.
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I like snakes about as much as I like bees, so more snakes just mean more fun.
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We've got snakes here, but they generally don't want anything to do with humans.
I have seen a rattler, but the most prevalent are Prairie King snakes and the Texax Rat Snake: a non-venomous, ill tempered critter that will attack if provoked.
We left a bucket, partially filled with water on the porch one summer night. This is what we found the next morning:
(https://worldwidebeekeeping.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fs9.postimg.cc%2F4crxv2hm3%2FRat_Snake_2.jpg&hash=e1e63c42b191ce77c3a917d22672faa3885d1fef) (http://postimg.cc/image/4crxv2hm3/)
It kind of surprises a person. Of course, it doesn't hurt to watch your surroundings on the way to the garden and hives. This one was having a nice rest in a Vitex bush.
(https://worldwidebeekeeping.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fs1.postimg.cc%2F4dz2n43vv%2FRat_Snake_3.jpg&hash=8e78c4ad6c7ff8ee83b1f0a91dead9cb47964e76) (http://postimg.cc/image/4dz2n43vv/)
I really do like the wildlife around here...not for everybody, but it suits me. ;)
Walt
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We've got snakes here, but they generally don't want anything to do with humans.
I have seen a rattler, but the most prevalent are Prairie King snakes and the Texax Rat Snake: a non-venomous, ill tempered critter that will attack if provoked.
We left a bucket, partially filled with water on the porch one summer night. This is what we found the next morning:
(https://worldwidebeekeeping.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fs9.postimg.cc%2F4crxv2hm3%2FRat_Snake_2.jpg&hash=e1e63c42b191ce77c3a917d22672faa3885d1fef) (http://postimg.cc/image/4crxv2hm3/)
It kind of surprises a person. Of course, it doesn't hurt to watch your surroundings on the way to the garden and hives. This one was having a nice rest in a Vitex bush.
(https://worldwidebeekeeping.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fs1.postimg.cc%2F4dz2n43vv%2FRat_Snake_3.jpg&hash=8e78c4ad6c7ff8ee83b1f0a91dead9cb47964e76) (http://postimg.cc/image/4dz2n43vv/)
I really do like the wildlife around here...not for everybody, but it suits me. ;)
Walt
We like wild pine snakes up here for keeping the mice away from the extra equipment. I know a fella that got bit on the hand from a snake hiding in a cool spot under the milk tank. Mice love making nests under stuff up here with grass & anything else that they chew up. I watch where I put my fingers, and keep an eye out for slide trails in the grass along the river. I know a couple spots where cottonmouth hang out, and live in old gopher holes along the river, etc. Are they doing rattler bounties in texas? Out in montana they had bounties in the 70's....
I was always told to stay away from "biting worms", and was retold the story of the young kid down the road many moons ago that found a nest of baby timber rattlers and used them for fish bait. It worked on me!!!
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I've found copperheads under my hives in my beeyards 60 miles north o home.Snakes don't bother me as long as i can see them and there not around our living quarters (poison ones). The farm i live on is a Century farm, and there has never been a poison snake seen or killed on it that any family member ever heard of 8). I have seen many garter snakes, black snakes, Salt and Pepper king snakes,Bull snakes,blue racers, and Water snakes. All snakes are protected in Mo. but i won't allow a poison one around the house or garden areas that could harm someone, Law or No law. Jack
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"" I know a couple spots where cottonmouth hang out, and live in old gopher holes along the river, etc. ""
What state is that in? There are no natural cottonmouths within 500 mile of Wisconsin.
Timber Rattlers are live born, not egg layers, so they don't have nests. When they are born, they scatter in all directions, and are totally on their own. No parental care whatsoever.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Agkistrodon_piscivorus_range.png
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There are a couple of towns (Sweetwater and Ogelsby) that have Rattlesnake round-ups. I avoid them.
I make it a practice not to reach into holes (I learned that with eels while snorkelling), and "stomp" my approach where there might be snakes...the vibration alerts them since they don't have ears. :) I also remember the old saying, "If you hear it rattle, you better skidattle."
We caught a rat snake in the chicken coop once...he had helped himself to an egg. My wife picked him up with barbeque tongs by the head, supported his body with her other hand and put him in the pasture. Moral of the story is we'd rather have rat snakes than rats. :laugh:
Walt
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"" I know a couple spots where cottonmouth hang out, and live in old gopher holes along the river, etc. ""
What state is that in? There are no natural cottonmouths within 500 mile of Wisconsin.
Timber Rattlers are live born, not egg layers, so they don't have nests. When they are born, they scatter in all directions, and are totally on their own. No parental care whatsoever.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Agkistrodon_piscivorus_range.png
Sure there are. Theres all kinds of weird stuff jumping around in freight barges in the mississippi, along the bluffs, etc. No timber rattlers are supposed to exist in southwest wi, but they're here. If it's living in a hole in the ground it's a den or a nest. Either way or you don't go sticking your fingers in it.
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Sorry if you've heard this story before!
I live on a state highway, so there's usually roadkill somewhere. One day I saw a rattlesnake that had been ran over many times. Stretched out, it would have been about five feet long.
Anyways, a couple of days later, I was down at the barber shop getting a trim, and I mentioned it to the barber. He got real excited and asked, "How big around is it?"
I couldn't exactly figure out what he was asking or why, so I said, "It's flat!"
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Black Widows under the hives seem to be a bigger problem than snakes for me. May see an occasional snake pass through the yard, but I've never seen them hang out around the hives. Did, however, come very close to grabbing a Black Widow with an ungloved hand last summer. She was hanging out under the bottom board of one of my nucs.
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Twice last summer I killed Copperheads by the pond, Havent had any issues with timber or Prarie rattlers yet, but have seen them when Morel hunting. We also supposedly have Massasauga Which I grew up also calling a rattler all the pit vipers here were called rattlers except the copper head. Havent seen any of the Massasauga rattlers since I was about 18, but usually see a copperhead or two when fishing the river.. I am with jack. Venomous snakes near the house don't fit well.
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Lazybkpr lol are you aware that NEVER in recorded medical history, did anyone die from the bite of a copperhead. Truth be told most people if you put a gun to their head could point to real copperhead and be right. Timber rattlesnakes and prairie rattlesnakes are geographically separated species meaning the two would almost never have occasion to meet.
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Barry, a recorded death from a copperhead was reported last year in Mo. Jack
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really, there must have an extenuating circumstances. although for the person bitten that wouldn't matter much.
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Looks like 3 reported to wiki in the last hundred years. Jack, maybe you should send the Mo. report to wiki.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fatal_snake_bites_in_the_United_States#2010s
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Some of the reporting is battling, copperheads are not found in wet environment's, there's a reason why they are called upland moccasins. there are scientific reasons why the Copperheads bite is not considered fatal under normal circumstances. the quality of their venom is rather poor,
they're venom glands do not hold enough to kill a healthy human under normal circumstances. mind you you might not want to go to a local disco tech and dance the night away after a bite but under normal circumstances with treatment there's nothing life threatening about to Copperhead bite.
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i just googled the death of the missouri guy.....a couple articles,
"described the cause of death as “heart failure from venom toxicity.” further~"Erik McSpadden, deputy coroner in Carter County, said Brown had been complaining of chest pains for several days before he was stricken. McSpadden said his office listed the cause of death as a heart attack, with the snake bite as a contributing factor.
"It definitely contributed to his death," McSpadden said. "It’s hard to know if it was the venom or the excitement he experienced from being bitten."
Man dies after copperhead bite (http://www.news-leader.com/article/20120703/NEWS11/307030054/Man-dies-after-bite-by-copperhead-snake-in-southeastern-Missouri)
Copperhead bite kills camper (http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/metro/copperhead-bite-kills-camper-on-current-river/article_ad3fafde-c504-11e1-933b-001a4bcf6878.html)
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You are right, but there are exceptions to all of nature's rules.
One summer, I was telling my son he wouldn't find a copperhead down by the river. The very next day, he caught one on a rocky island in the middle of the river, and a week later we were fishing and watched two swim across and go into a tree root at the bank.
A honeybee venom isn't deadly either, but people die from one sting. The only one of the three bites that explained the reason, was anaphylactic shock.
I agree they are not normally deadly. My brother was bitten and never received any medical care. It swelled his whole arm and turned black, then begin clearing up the next day.
As the one Jack posted, extraneous circumstances.
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Yes, it was in the news paper, like Barry i'd never heard of anyone dying from a copperhead bit either, if i'm not mistaken i think the article stated that there have been two people in Mo. that died from copperhead bites? It is rare to see a timber rattler in mo. anymore, but down in the Branson area (Tany, Co.) they have pygmy rattlers and there venom's not deadly either (so they say.) The cottonmouth population is growing in our state, and i have seen them in our northern counties where i never seen them before. There bite can be nasty. :o Jack
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Lazybkpr lol are you aware that NEVER in recorded medical history, did anyone die from the bite of a copperhead. Truth be told most people if you put a gun to their head could point to real copperhead and be right. Timber rattlesnakes and prairie rattlesnakes are geographically separated species meaning the two would almost never have occasion to meet.
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And,, that has what to do with my dogs being bitten? Our friends and neighbors Kids that are swimming in the pond? Having someone I love or care about in pain from being bitten is quite enough to insure they die the moment I see them.
Some of the reporting is battling, copperheads are not found in wet environment's, there's a reason why they are called upland moccasins. there are scientific reasons why the Copperheads bite is not considered fatal under normal circumstances. the quality of their venom is rather poor,
they're venom glands do not hold enough to kill a healthy human under normal circumstances. mind you you might not want to go to a local disco tech and dance the night away after a bite but under normal circumstances with treatment there's nothing life threatening about to Copperhead bite.
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I NEVER see a copperhead unless I am near water. Two in my pond, and MANY times when I am fishing different rivers.. So I have to disagree completely that they are not found in wet environments. Yes, they are easy to identify and stay away from. Its not hard for me to stay away from them, but when they come to me, my home, there isn't a shred of mercy in me. It has nothing to do with death, it has to do with pain. The venom hurts, makes you feel sick, and can destroy skin and muscle tissue.
If I see them, and let them live, then my friends daughter, or even my dog gets bitten, who's fault is it?
MINE!
If one sneaks in I don't know about, fine, we all deal with the results, but when I see them, they are removed by the fastest means possible. How does the venom react when it is injected into an 8 year old girl? I am sure its a lot different than a full grown adult. What about my 50 lb Dog? Even the wifes stupid cat I value more than I do the life of a snake.
So it would be OK with you if I put a 45 slug in your leg? Probably wont kill you, so its fine right? Nothing Life threatening about that.
Are you really trying to defend a venomous snake that's too close to my house and family?
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Missouri, possibly. Wisconsin, NO. Check my post. I said "naturally occurring". I'm sure some snake handlers buy them and they either get loose or are turned loose. They will die during the winter, so no population surviving in the wild. They've even found Alligators in Chicago, but they are not there naturally.
Quote.."Cottonmouths reside mainly in the southeastern United States. This includes very southern Virginia to Florida and west to eastern Texas. There are three subspecies: the eastern, Florida, and western cottonmouths".
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Agkistrodon_piscivorus_range.png
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I think Barry said that a copperhead didn't carry enough venom to kill a human. My brothers killed 3 copperheads two of which was 27 in. long and one that was 29 in. long when they had to burn the old log cabin on the bluff over looking Big Sac river. That was a sad day, the cabin was the meeting place for family members for years (no elc.) just coal oil lamps and coal oil cook stove and a outside brick barbecue grill, and a 40 ft. well that we drew water from with a water buket, No way of knowing how many copperheads was killed on the graveled front porch of that old cabin, but everyone knew to look for them and no one was ever bite by one. The 3 copperheads mentioned above to my notion would have enough venom i think that you had better get help if bit by one. Jack
PS. Many noddled flat head catfish 30lb. to 67 pounders have fed 30 to 50 family members on the 4th of July years ag at that old log cabin.
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snakes are not social by Nature the only time a gathering numbers is to breed or hibernate. on that there is no guesswork it's a matter of fact. copperheads do not hardly go out of their way spoiling for a fight, in fact to bite you is a perfect waste of their venom which is very expensive for them to produce they need that venom for something more important like securing food. it is almost inevitable that when a Copperhead bites somebody, they were screwing with it, attempting to capture or kill it, or as sometimes happened inadvertently stepped on em. and any of the instances described above the animals defending itself left on device is it would much rather have nothing to do with people. the same cannot be said for people, people go out of their way to harass the snake, and then when the snake defends itself see evil snake it has to be persecuted. as for pets they can be taught the same with children but first you have to train adults. in previous years I've had copperheads in captivity for for years and years. of all the venomous snakes that I've had in my collection, and I've had a few. copperheads or perhaps the most inoffensive of all the venomous snakes. like any animal is sufficiently provoked, will it bite....of course the same as any other animal would. had you done some of the things to your dog what you done to snakes in the past, your dog would have fired you up, but I suppose being warm and furry makes all the difference in the world, and people at the base are largely uninformed in scared to death of anything reptilian, especially if it has no legs. little bit of education goes a long way...
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Which one is copperhead which is banded water snake(https://worldwidebeekeeping.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.tapatalk.com%2Fd%2F14%2F02%2F14%2Fqaha4e6a.jpg&hash=bd096bda6539e55a4f7bfefaf8c749e15968da86)(https://worldwidebeekeeping.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.tapatalk.com%2Fd%2F14%2F02%2F14%2Fpana2a3y.jpg&hash=73c128e21f5021462dfc047a3a043139c927e2f7)
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I won't give it away, but the banded is mistaken for a cottonmouth more often than it is a copperhead. I've heard hundreds say they saw a cottonmouth when we don't have them here. We only have the banded and the copperheads.
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Most hospitals carry atleast a limited supply of antivenin ( crofab )
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my last word on this is if you live where these animals exist, isn't incumbent upon you to know what you're dealing with and for you to pay attention to your surroundings because you can be absolutely certain they will pay attention to their surroundings. The more you learn about what you fear the less fearsome they become.
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Well said. :agree:
Walt
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Keeper, unless you keep "hots", or venomous snakes, I would say it is totally needless. The ambulance driver will be on the phone before he gets to you, asking where you should be taken. There are more deaths in the US from lightening strikes than there are from snake bites.
I doubt many hospitals keep a supply of anti-venom on hand, as it has a short shelf life, and is individual to each snake. They can have it shipped in by the time the bitten person is tested to see if he can take it or not. A high percentage of people cannot take anti-venom. BTW, very few of them die from snake bite, either, if they get help soon after the bite. There are other ways to treat it.
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The neighbor 1/4 mile behind the 40 acres my son and i, had a Dozer digging out a basement addition to his home. The Dozer operator dug into some big sandstone rocks and there was a big ball of copperheads under them, i have heard of snakes balling up like that but have never seen it, this was in the fall, were they breeding? There is a story about a young man who jumped into a strip pit (one of peabody coal mine company's) around Clinton, Mo. to go swimming and jumped into a nest of cottonmouths and died from bites. His buddies was going for a swim also, but he was the first one in and they witness it. I've heard this story from many different sources, so i'm inclined to believe it? Jack
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I've heard that story from 4 or 5 states, in many ponds, old mines, old rock quarries, even in a section of river. Both from cottonmouths, and from non-venomous snakes and he died from just too many bites. That is like saying he died from too many blackberry briar scratches. I've heard it for over 60 years. It goes along with a hoop snake forming a loop, rolling down a hill and stinging a tree with it's tail. Tree died, too. Also, the story of a milksnake milking a cow and the farmer didn't get any milk.
Probably could think of a few more if I tried hard.
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Actually crofab is the newest polvalent availble for multi species venomous snakes in US, covers all species and sub species copperheads, all water moccasin species and sub species, all crotilids ( rattlesnakes ) coral snakes have their own antivenin. Crofab has a much longer shelf life. Wyeth was the other polyvalent and had self life issues.
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Draw back it's really expensive something wyeth wasn't.
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You know who your true friend is, if you get bit on the butt and need someone to suck the poison out. Isn't that right Rb, perry, and iddee, my good friends. :laugh: I know i'm going to die if i get bit. :o Jack
PS. Hmmmm i do have a new buddy, Keeperofthebees ;D
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Keeper, surely you realize what bovine excrement that story...for any number of scientific reasons...
The fang in the boot story, sorta like the rattlesnakes bites a moving car tire and causes a flat tire ( anyone see where this is going?) The mechanic trying to fix the tire rubs interior of tire gets pricked by fang and dies... more BS.......
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lol I was sorta fond of the tire story
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"You know who your true friend is, if you get bit on the butt and need someone to suck the poison out. Isn't that right Rb, perry, and iddee, my good friends. :laugh: I know i'm going to die if i get bit. :o Jack"
jack i am your true friend, i would save your life, BUT, i would make you swear to try plastic waxed foundation...... :D
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of all the animals in the world the snake has had more war stories, myths and fairytales, old wives tales. have been passed down from generation to generation as if its gospel. I spent a great deal of time out in the field, my time was spent in the Northeast. but I did have a very large venomous reptiles collection with the most dangerous snakes in the world that does give me a bit of footing to stand on when I talk about these animals. their behavior out in the wild would be even more reclusive then they are in captivity, they have an opportunity to leave in captivity they did not. Statistical fact; there are approximately 25,000 snake bites that occur throughout all of United States of those bites approximately 3000 are venomous snakes bites. of those three thousand bites, 25 are fatal. for the average person the odds are far better you'll get struck by lightning twice before you're bitten by a snake once. bus that go out in the field it does increase our odds for encounter. but even with that said its still betting odds and won't stop me from going out into the field. many things in the world that you can be afraid of by and far snakes are not one of them. Fear the IRS, the Bureau of Alcohol Tobacco and Firearms, government in general.
how far greater risk from them then you are from any snake.
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well first a fact...if every snake inthe world died at midnight tonight, by thanksgiving your meal would be a armed meal, to clear the rats off the dinner table...fact
A lady was in a apple orchard, gathering apples. Suddenly a huge black snake started to chase her. She was terrified, and climbed in one of the Apple trees. The black snake in frustration bit the tree, and continued circling the poor lady. She was in the tree for several hours, finally hungry, she plucked a apple and ate it. She died from eating the apple, poisoned by the black snake. lol
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""What's the primary snake killing poison out there?""
HUMANS!!