Worldwide Beekeeping

Beekeeping => Beekeeping 101 => Topic started by: riverbee on February 11, 2014, 06:17:00 pm

Title: Waxing Plastic Foundation
Post by: riverbee on February 11, 2014, 06:17:00 pm
a great little article for anyone looking for a 'how to' to add wax to unwaxed foundation or additional wax to waxed plastic foundation.  i use and like pierco's waxed foundation, black for brood and white for honey supers.  every once in awhile i will add a little extra wax to the foundation. i use this method or the little paint rollers:

"Plastic foundation needs more wax. Here's a good way to make up what the manufacturers leave off.
The most efficient method I’ve found of applying additional wax to plastic foundation is with a four inch foam paint brush, available at most paint or home improvement stores. (Home Depot has the most durable brushes, at a very competitive price) Simply dip the brush into melted wax and lightly sweep it across the plastic foundation. The object is to build up a wax reserve on the edges of the cells, not fill the base of the cells with wax. Start with several horizontal strokes working across the foundation from top to bottom, follow up with a couple vertical strokes from each end. Repeat the process on the flip side. Several repetitions may be necessary to build up the desired thickness."


Waxing Frames By: Roy Hendrickson (http://www.beeculture.com/storycms/index.cfm?cat=Story&recordID=572)

Title: Re: Waxing Plastic Foundation
Post by: BoilerJim on February 11, 2014, 06:58:44 pm
Nice post Riverbee.
Title: Re: Waxing Plastic Foundation
Post by: Edward on February 11, 2014, 09:16:22 pm
This is how i do it, it helps if the frames are warm ish I leave them out in the sunshine, friends have warmed them in a cupboard , it they are Cold they get too much wax on them.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eEk2DUCAy1I

mvh Edward  :P
Title: Re: Waxing Plastic Foundation
Post by: brooksbeefarm on February 11, 2014, 09:23:34 pm
Why would you want to waste good bees wax,it would be like putting a dip of ice cream on a cow pattie.I would love to have the ice cream, but wouldn't touch it because of what it's on. :o Sorry little buddy, i couldn't help it. :laugh: :laugh: Jack  (OK perry, let me have it  ;D)
Title: Re: Waxing Plastic Foundation
Post by: Edward on February 11, 2014, 09:23:49 pm
I forgot to add that I do it at a comfortable work area so I don't have to bend my back all the time in an uncomfortable angle.  :o


mvh Edward  :P
Title: Re: Waxing Plastic Foundation
Post by: Edward on February 11, 2014, 09:25:53 pm
Why would you want to waste good bees wax,it would be like putting a dip of ice cream on a cow pattie.I would love to have the ice cream, but wouldn't touch it because of what it's on. :o Sorry little buddy, i couldn't help it. :laugh: :laugh: Jack  (OK perry, let me have it  ;D)

You seem a bit grumpy, maybee the fiber in the cow pattie would do you good  :o
Title: Re: Waxing Plastic Foundation
Post by: iddee on February 11, 2014, 09:31:13 pm
TOUCHE', Edward.   :laugh:
Title: Re: Waxing Plastic Foundation
Post by: Perry on February 11, 2014, 09:38:42 pm
 :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
Edward, you just made my day!  ;)
Title: Re: Waxing Plastic Foundation
Post by: brooksbeefarm on February 11, 2014, 09:47:20 pm
No thank you, the pattie has been through 4 stomachs already, so probable not much fiber left. :P It's not that i need fiber, the temps, have been below freezing, with snow on the ground for two weeks and i'm bored :-\. So i try to stir rb and perry up, and telling the truth about plastic foundation will usually do it.  :laugh: Jack
Title: Re: Waxing Plastic Foundation
Post by: keeperofthebees on February 11, 2014, 09:50:27 pm
No thank you, the pattie has been through 4 stomachs already, so probable not much fiber left. :P It's not that i need fiber, the temps, have been below freezing, with snow on the ground for two weeks and i'm bored :-\. So i try to stir rb and perry up, and telling the truth about plastic foundation will usually do it.  :laugh: Jack

Like how the bees have trouble staying warm with plastic foundation instead of wax ;D 
Title: Re: Waxing Plastic Foundation
Post by: Edward on February 11, 2014, 09:53:51 pm
If things are a bit chilly  :) you could always pick one up, they come out warm  :D  :no:
Title: Re: Waxing Plastic Foundation
Post by: Perry on February 12, 2014, 06:28:33 am
Jack, as much as I want to have you finally admit to river and me that we are right and you are wrong.....

Don't you ever change!  (except your foundation that is)  ;)
Title: Re: Waxing Plastic Foundation
Post by: tecumseh on February 12, 2014, 06:46:35 am
a snip...
The most efficient method I’ve found of applying additional wax to plastic foundation is with a four inch foam paint brush, available at most paint or home improvement stores

tecumseh..
the author must not have my own understanding of EFFICIENT.  perhaps he/she has as degree or two in art appreciation????

not really my idea since I got this directly from one of Brooks's Missouri friends... instead of a brush get yourself one of those small diameter foam trim paint rollers (I buy my own from Lowes).  you do have to set the roller in the wax for a bit to let the foam absorb the wax but once you do it is one quick pass with the roller, place roller back in wax, flip the wax foundation, another quick pass and you are done.  as far as I KNOW efficiency in this process is also about the size of the wax pot relative to the job at hand.

Title: Re: Waxing Plastic Foundation
Post by: Perry on February 12, 2014, 07:02:08 am
Here is another way to re-wax foundation.
Jack, please note how long it takes him to install after rewaxing the foundation.  :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3pyB64oaHWk
Title: Re: Waxing Plastic Foundation
Post by: brooksbeefarm on February 12, 2014, 09:30:55 am
What kind of residue or disease lurk in those small chunks of black wax that is coated over on the plastic with clean good smelling bees wax that both bees and beekeepers treasure. I'll take my ice cream straight from the White Mountain churn, not served on a cow pattie. 8) Jack  :laugh:
Title: Re: Waxing Plastic Foundation
Post by: Perry on February 12, 2014, 09:40:57 am
Well, I might agree with you just partially, a little bit Jack. (Oh that took a lot to say)  ;D
I would never do that using someone else's frames, but I don't think I would have too much trouble using my own stuff where I knew what I was dealing with.
Now, when the forum recovers from reading that I actually in some small way agreed with you...... :o
 :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
Title: Re: Waxing Plastic Foundation
Post by: iddee on February 12, 2014, 09:50:22 am
Perry, are you saying you "might" disagree with eating other's cow patties, but would not have any problem eating your own cow patties? That's what it sounds like.

Just asking....   :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
Title: Re: Waxing Plastic Foundation
Post by: Perry on February 12, 2014, 09:54:33 am
Alright Iddee, how much is Jack payin you?  :D
Title: Re: Waxing Plastic Foundation
Post by: Edward on February 12, 2014, 10:04:35 am
He probable should have soaked the frame i a soapy disinfection solution for a few Days and they used a pressure washer on them.

You kill nosema at 55oC for 24hr, AFB, burn the stuff.

mvh Edward  :P
Title: Re: Waxing Plastic Foundation
Post by: Edward on February 12, 2014, 10:11:05 am
When I roll hot wax on frames I start at the bottom and roll upwards.

Doing this creates a wave of hot wax in front of the roller the liquid wax gets into all the cells and covers the whole frame without any dry patches, making it easier for the bees to draw new cells  ;D

mvh Edward  :P
Title: Re: Waxing Plastic Foundation
Post by: brooksbeefarm on February 12, 2014, 10:20:40 am
heh, heh, heh, good one iddee. 8) Jack
Title: Re: Waxing Plastic Foundation
Post by: riverbee on February 12, 2014, 10:47:30 am
oh for pete's sake, start a thread, leave the forum since late yesterday, come back and 20 some replies later i am reading about cow patties and ice cream..... :D i knew when i started this thread there was going to be a little discussion from jack on waxing frames......jack fyi, from the same author:

"Plastic or wax foundation, which is best? Your personal opinion based on a variety of factors will determine the answer. If you decide to go with plastic, and many have, then there is one more task to complete. To elevate plastic foundation acceptance to the level of wax you need to add some additional wax to the edges of the cells. This gives the bees some additional raw material with which to initiate comb construction until their wax glands kick into high gear. Once additional wax has been added, plastic foundation becomes not only the equal of its older brother, but in my opinion it becomes superior to wax foundation. "

my opinion as well.......jack, missouri is a short drive for me with a box of pierco foundation.......BATTA BING!!! :D
and another thing jack, this is how i wax my frames, as tec described, he says here he got the idea from one of your friends?  ;D

"I got this directly from one of Brooks's Missouri friends... instead of a brush get yourself one of those small diameter foam trim paint rollers (I buy my own from Lowes).  you do have to set the roller in the wax for a bit to let the foam absorb the wax but once you do it is one quick pass with the roller, place roller back in wax, flip the wax foundation, another quick pass and you are done.  as far as I KNOW efficiency in this process is also about the size of the wax pot relative to the job at hand."

ps works really well.
Title: Re: Waxing Plastic Foundation
Post by: brooksbeefarm on February 12, 2014, 12:41:32 pm
Perry,Edward and Squirt, you shot your self in the foot by stating, If you want to get the bees to take plastic foundation, you have to sweeten the pie with real bees wax. :D I rest my case. Jack  :laugh: :laugh:

PS. Looks like i win again. ;D
Title: Re: Waxing Plastic Foundation
Post by: Edward on February 12, 2014, 01:10:33 pm
PS. Looks like i win again. ;D

 ;D laugh while you can, after we have extracted our plastic frames and you're still stuck extracting your broken wax frames trying to clean up the mess give us a call  :D


mvh Edward  :P
Title: Re: Waxing Plastic Foundation
Post by: iddee on February 12, 2014, 01:21:57 pm
""but in my opinion it becomes superior to wax foundation""

Opinions are like where cow patties come from. Everybody has one and most of them stink.

Edward, I've never broken a wooden frame with wax foundation. I have pulled plastic foundation out of others hives after the bees refused to touch it.

Title: Re: Waxing Plastic Foundation
Post by: Edward on February 12, 2014, 02:00:30 pm
You've never had a wax frame brake under extraktion?

I've had many, but none of my plastic frames have broken and they take less time to extrakt  ;)



mvh Edward  :P
Title: Re: Waxing Plastic Foundation
Post by: iddee on February 12, 2014, 02:04:01 pm
mine may take more time, but they take less exertion than yours do.

My adult niece loves to turn the handle.   :P    :D
Title: Re: Waxing Plastic Foundation
Post by: Edward on February 12, 2014, 02:16:48 pm
My finger hurts from turning on the  C:-) switch  C:-) :laugh:

If only I could get someone to help me with it  :laugh: ;D


mvh Edward  :P
Title: Re: Waxing Plastic Foundation
Post by: Perry on February 12, 2014, 02:43:17 pm
Edward, some of these fellas drive cars and trucks with a half ton of plastic in them, but you don't hear them longing for the good ole days of horse and buggy!  ;)
Awfully selective when it comes to the obvious advantage of plastic I'd say.  :P
Title: Re: Waxing Plastic Foundation
Post by: riverbee on February 12, 2014, 02:59:39 pm
"My finger hurts from turning on the  C:-) switch"........

give it up edward, jack likes to be in the dark.......... :D
Title: Re: Waxing Plastic Foundation
Post by: riverbee on February 12, 2014, 03:01:57 pm
i just posted a poll on what type of foundation (or not) each of us use.  be interesting to see the results......... ;D
Title: Re: Waxing Plastic Foundation
Post by: Edward on February 12, 2014, 03:18:09 pm
Edward, some of these fellas drive cars and trucks with a half ton of plastic in them, but you don't hear them longing for the good ole days of horse and buggy!  ;)
Awfully selective when it comes to the obvious advantage of plastic I'd say.  :P

Maybee that were they get the horse apples and cow patties from for their ice Cream  :laugh: :laugh: ;D


mvh Edward  :P
Title: Re: Waxing Plastic Foundation
Post by: Edward on February 12, 2014, 03:20:56 pm
i just posted a poll on what type of foundation (or not) each of us use.  be interesting to see the results......... ;D

Plastic in the supers and wax in the brood box. :yes:

mvh Edward  :P
Title: Re: Waxing Plastic Foundation
Post by: iddee on February 12, 2014, 03:26:58 pm
Show me the plastic, Perry............................


(https://worldwidebeekeeping.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi81.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fj226%2FIddee%2F1949%25208n%2FDSCN0006_zps1e6411c3.jpg&hash=1659fc60dcb73775286320bb0b31d8323867ffba) (http://s81.photobucket.com/user/Iddee/media/1949%208n/DSCN0006_zps1e6411c3.jpg.html)
Title: Re: Waxing Plastic Foundation
Post by: Edward on February 12, 2014, 03:33:44 pm
And if you can't decide use aluminum bars http://www.fribi.se/FriBi/Skattlada.html

"(The super box may bees wax sheets to start on. If there is nectar to flow and the bees are strong, they can fill a 25 kg box in a week, weather permitting.
Above and below each box is a hard-board with beespace Each box is a removable drive. .)"

This is how they extract http://www.fribi.se/FriBi/Utvinning.html

"(Upper wear plate pressure off.
The aluminum profiles prized out.
Honeycombs toppled in the mill.
Finished honey is pumped from the separator to the tanks.
After clarification, seeding and stirring dropped the finished honey 500g glass jars.)"


There was some talk about a one time super in a paper box that you could send to the larger honey gossist for processing

mvh Edward  :P
Title: Re: Waxing Plastic Foundation
Post by: Perry on February 12, 2014, 03:55:35 pm
I know it's off topic, but man I like the look of those tractors (Fords).
Title: Re: Waxing Plastic Foundation
Post by: LazyBkpr on February 12, 2014, 05:06:12 pm
I know it's off topic, but man I like the look of those tractors (Fords).

   Makes me want to send my Fergie to him for a little painting...
Title: Re: Waxing Plastic Foundation
Post by: brooksbeefarm on February 12, 2014, 09:28:33 pm
Nice idee, it looks like a 9N?Hey Riverbee,Perry, and Edward,i may have to take back some of the bad things i've said about plastic products, i was driving by where they was getting things ready for the summer time swap meet. They was unloading brand new plastic Port A Potties for there customers,so plastic would be better than bees wax for this product and anything related to it. ;D Jack
Title: Re: Waxing Plastic Foundation
Post by: iddee on February 12, 2014, 10:08:18 pm
Not quite that old, Jack. It's an 8n.

Yep, you're right. Plastic is good for some things.
Title: Re: Waxing Plastic Foundation
Post by: tecumseh on February 13, 2014, 06:41:01 am
that is a very cool link Edward.  Can't read a word... but quite obviously some clever thinking going on there.  Have you tried any of that and if yes, does it work?
Title: Re: Waxing Plastic Foundation
Post by: Edward on February 13, 2014, 07:00:37 am
No but he doesn't live too far away, It would bee interesting to take a look.

No extracting, new wax every year

Grinding everything through a mincer and letting it clear with the wax floating up top

No frames to build  ;D

An industriell crush and strain  ;)


mvh Edward  :P
Title: Re: Waxing Plastic Foundation
Post by: tecumseh on February 14, 2014, 06:38:26 am
Edward..... we have a honey product here that is called REALLY REALLY RAW and it looks like the same process although none of the wax has even been filtered out.  you get chunks of wax and sometimes bee parts in a product that fetches a pretty fancy price. 
Title: Re: Waxing Plastic Foundation
Post by: Edward on February 14, 2014, 06:51:12 am
 :o thats nasty  :o

 Bee parts :no:



mvh Edward  :P
Title: Re: Waxing Plastic Foundation
Post by: Edward on February 14, 2014, 06:57:48 am
I can see the benefit in comb honey or unfiltered that has been left overnight so the air bubbles and large particles float up to the Surface and still has pollen .

I hate jars of honey with bee parts in them, small black bee leggs  >:( Drives me nuts, I can't sell them and I cant eat them all .

mvh Edward  :P
Title: Re: Waxing Plastic Foundation
Post by: LazyBkpr on February 14, 2014, 10:02:46 am
I'm with you Edward.. I dont mind eating clean wax, but bee parts... no..  If I cant SEE them i am fine. Kind of like eating a hotdog. So long as I dont have to see what went into them I love them!
Title: Re: Waxing Plastic Foundation
Post by: Bakersdozen on February 16, 2014, 10:52:42 am
I felt like I was watching a tennis match here until SOMEONE posted a picture of a tractor.  SQUIRREL! :laugh: :hijack:

Title: Re: Waxing Plastic Foundation
Post by: Bakersdozen on February 16, 2014, 11:21:25 am
This is how i do it, it helps if the frames are warm ish I leave them out in the sunshine, friends have warmed them in a cupboard , it they are Cold they get too much wax on them.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eEk2DUCAy1I

mvh Edward  :P

Now for a serious question.  Would one be able to use an old crock pot to melt and hold the wax while rolling it onto the foundation?  I am thinking of an oval crock pot with or without the removable crock.  I don't think you would want to use the crock pot for anything else after that.  This task is one of my goals for this year's new frames.  I am just envisioning a big splattered mess of wax that I don't want to make.
Title: Re: Waxing Plastic Foundation
Post by: Perry on February 16, 2014, 12:29:32 pm
I really don't see why not. They use them (Presto Pot) for melting beeswax for candles.
Title: Re: Waxing Plastic Foundation
Post by: Crofter on February 16, 2014, 12:44:56 pm
Go to a thrift store and you can pick up used crock pots for $5 or less.
Title: Re: Waxing Plastic Foundation
Post by: Ray on February 16, 2014, 01:06:21 pm
Do any of you wash your new plastic before waxing?
Do any of you add extra wax (other than on the foundation) for the bees to reuse?
Title: Re: Waxing Plastic Foundation
Post by: Perry on February 16, 2014, 08:29:59 pm
Mine comes pre-waxed when new. Actually, I am not even sure anyone up here even carries unwaxed plastic foundation or frames?  ???
Title: Re: Waxing Plastic Foundation
Post by: Bakersdozen on February 23, 2014, 10:26:39 am
I am thinking out loud here and wonder if anyone agrees with me.  My plans for this spring include waxing new plastic foundation.  Even though the foundation comes with some wax already, it is reported to give the bees an incentive to build comb and a slight bit of help.  I don't think I have that much wax to render.  I just have last year's cappings.  Now here is my question.  If one were to go buy beeswax at a woodworking or hobby store or even another beekeeper off of Craigslist, how do you know it's not contaminated with foulbrood spores?  Some unscrupulous beekeeper may have rendered all the contaminated wax as a means of salvaging something instead of burning it all.  What do you think?  Does this thought have merit?
Title: Re: Waxing Plastic Foundation
Post by: brooksbeefarm on February 23, 2014, 11:36:41 am
Bakers12, I think so, if i was going to paint good smelling  beeswax on stinky plastic foundation, i would want to know where it comes from? I would find a local beekeeper or someone on this forum, to buy from. I tried plastic foundation a few years back, but i couldn't put enough beeswax on it to kill the smell of the plastic, and some of my bees refused to draw it out in the supers. So i went back to beeswax and the bees and i are happy again. 8) Jack
Title: Re: Waxing Plastic Foundation
Post by: Marbees on February 23, 2014, 11:37:44 am
I would use only cappings from my yards for waxing foundation.
Title: Re: Waxing Plastic Foundation
Post by: Slowmodem on February 23, 2014, 12:38:44 pm
You could try spraying them with syrup (maybe with a little HBH mixed in).
Title: Re: Waxing Plastic Foundation
Post by: Bakersdozen on February 23, 2014, 02:24:17 pm
You could try spraying them with syrup (maybe with a little HBH mixed in).

What is HBH?

Jack-Just face it...your bees are spoiled! :P
Title: Re: Waxing Plastic Foundation
Post by: Perry on February 23, 2014, 04:00:01 pm
Both Marbees and Slowmodem are correct.
Either your own wax or syrup with a bit of HBH (Honey Bee Healthy) misted on the wax coated plastic (emphasis for Jack).
Title: Re: Waxing Plastic Foundation
Post by: G3farms on February 23, 2014, 04:05:44 pm
Jack, it is finally coming out about all of the troubles with these milk jug frames and foundations  :laugh:
Title: Re: Waxing Plastic Foundation
Post by: Perry on February 23, 2014, 04:20:54 pm
Jack, it is finally coming out about all of the troubles with these milk jug frames and foundations  :laugh:

$709.62 to fly to Knoxville (return). Either cab or rent a car to get to Concord. Maybe swing by MO and talk to Jack at the same time!  :D

By the way, any of you fellers been checking out the poll?  :laugh:
Title: Re: Waxing Plastic Foundation
Post by: iddee on February 23, 2014, 04:30:37 pm
Well, you folks have me convinced. I'm going to go to all natural beekeeping. Styrofoam hives, plastic frames, plastic foundation, tea tree oil, wintergreen oil, maybe a little hemp oil. Add some processed sugar to it to be sure they have plenty to eat. Sprinkle some powdered sugar over them just like they do in a hollow tree. Then put holes in the top and bottom of the hive just like they do in a tree. Even open the bottom wide with no escape for them, but so smaller pests have good access. Then build a barricade between where the queen lays and the honey, so she can't get into the honey area. Yep, all natural, just like they live in the wild. That's for me.

Yep, only what the bees use NATURALLY in the wild. I'm converting right now.

G3, Jack, gonna join me?   ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Waxing Plastic Foundation
Post by: G3farms on February 23, 2014, 04:41:41 pm
 :laugh: naked with sandels and a veil  :laugh:


I have been saving milk jugs all winter, gonna hang them in all the trees for swarm traps  ;D
Title: Re: Waxing Plastic Foundation
Post by: G3farms on February 23, 2014, 04:50:21 pm
That poll is flawed!

That first question is actually two questions. And half of one of them (waxed plastic) belongs in the wax foundation.
Same as asking who puts plastic on their wax kind of thing!
Title: Re: Waxing Plastic Foundation
Post by: Perry on February 23, 2014, 05:46:00 pm
That poll is flawed!

That first question is actually two questions. And half of one of them (waxed plastic) belongs in the wax foundation.
Same as asking who puts plastic on their wax kind of thing!


Ohhhhh, now you have a problem with the poll?  :laugh:
Title: Re: Waxing Plastic Foundation
Post by: Ray on April 04, 2014, 12:57:12 pm
Seriously folks :)
A) DON"T buy a cheap foam paint brush!
The one I bought fell apart in the hot wax >:(
I repaired it with a twist tie from a loaf of bread but still - You'd think for 69 cents...

The big question is: Can you put too much wax on a frame?
Title: Re: Waxing Plastic Foundation
Post by: brooksbeefarm on April 04, 2014, 01:47:59 pm
I don't think so, not being a smartaleck, , but mine are all wax. ;D Jack
Title: Re: Waxing Plastic Foundation
Post by: riverbee on April 04, 2014, 06:37:28 pm
" DON"T buy a cheap foam paint brush!
The one I bought fell apart in the hot wax >:(
I repaired it with a twist tie from a loaf of bread but still - You'd think for 69 cents...

The big question is: Can you put too much wax on a frame?"

ray skip the foam paint brush.....read tecumseh's post here #13.....i do the same, a foam or fabric mini roller.  works well.   how much wax did you gob on the foundation? you only need to do a quick pass on both sides.....PICTURES OF YOUR WAX ARTWORK ray!!!........ :D