Worldwide Beekeeping
Beekeeping => Beekeeping 101 => Topic started by: riverbee on February 14, 2014, 04:01:07 pm
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this is another randy oliver article that is a worthy read.
The "Rules" For Successful Beekeeping (http://scientificbeekeeping.com/the-rules-for-successful-beekeeping/)
Advice to Beginning Beekeepers
just a short quip:
"This spring, as usual, I’ve given quite a number of beekeeping workshops to beginning and “recreational” (formerly “hobby”) beekeepers. These beekeepers are wallowing in information gleaned from the Internet about the “right” way to keep bees. Unfortunately, they do not yet have enough experience to know what to believe, whereas long-time beekeepers simply roll their eyes at some of the suggestions being promoted.
There is an old adage that if you want to get a definitive answer to any beekeeping question, just ask a second- or third-year beekeeper, as they are generally at the peak of their confidence level regarding their knowledge about beekeeping (and often blog away offering advice to others). After that, most of us are humbled by the fact that beekeeping is a lifelong learning experience, full of surprises, and ruled largely by Murphy’s Law."
The “Beekeeper Taliban”
Some Common Misconceptions About Bees
Misconception #1—That Nature is “Nice” to Bees
Misconception #2—That Colonies Survive in a Blissful State in Nature
Misconception #3—That Bees Don’t Like “Chemicals”
Misconception #4—That There is Any “Best Hive” in Which to Keep Bees
Misconception #5—That “Natural Beekeeping” is New
Misconception #6—That “Treatment Free” is Good Husbandry
The “Rules” for Successful Beekeeping
Rule #1—Bees Need Flowers
Rule #2—Give ‘em a Sunny Warm Bedroom
Rule #3—Suppress Parasites
Rule #4—Avoid Toxins
Wrap Up:
There you have it, successful beekeeping condensed down to four general rules for good husbandry:
1. Keep bees where there are lots of flowers all season, or provide supplemental feeding.
2. Provide a warm, dry, sunny hive.
3. Suppress varroa if necessary.
4. Avoid synthetic miticides and pesticides.
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That really condenses a lot of fluff! "Green", "organic", and "natural" can certainly be abused for the purpose of lining someones pockets or feathering someones cap! :sad:
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Agreed Crofter, sometimes its not so easy to tell the fluff meant to line their pockets from the fluff meant to line yours.
Had a lady at the classes last night look at some old comb. She was Horrified, wouldn't even touch it. Stated loudly that SHE would never allow her bees to become so FILTHY...
Several of the old timers who attended the classes to keep up on current treatments and trends started laughing, a couple quite loudly. I don't think she was very happy. The preconceived notions some people go into beekeeping with are destined to be shattered.
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Hehehehehehhahahaha :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :D
I friend that held the other beekeeping class was terrorized and one student demanded what dates and times to do things in the bee yard, he was not happy with the answer that it all depends on the weather >:( :'( >:( :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
When they ask me whats a good Place to put a hive ? After a lot of Deep thought I have come to the conclusion pick a good looking Place, in girlie terms, pretty and beautiful. That's where the bees like to bee, and most of them are Girls anyway, the ones who decide and make the important decisions anyway ;D
mvh Edward :P
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Walt Disney World view of nature. Hamburger from the store is OK but you can't eat Bambi! Some equally emotionalized views about bees that is often baggage when it comes to the practical aspects of raising them. Some books are really sappy. Personally I would not consider mentoring someone whose views on bees was full of sentimental sap. Unlearning is harder to deal with than a clean slate!
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Hamburger from the store is OK but you can't eat Bambi
Hamburger from the store never had a chance, strait to the slaughter house .
Bambi had a good Life out in the wild and probably never saw it coming + had a good chance to run away. :D
mvh Edward :P
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Walt Disney World view of nature. Hamburger from the store is OK but you can't eat Bambi! Some equally emotionalized views about bees that is often baggage when it comes to the practical aspects of raising them. Some books are really sappy. Personally I would not consider mentoring someone whose views on bees was full of sentimental sap. Unlearning is harder to deal with than a clean slate!
When I was hired on with BC Transit, it was back in the days where they looked for someone with driving experience. By the time I left they had changed their hiring policy and almost 50% of the new hires were women. It was all based on the idea that it was too hard to break bad habits that had been ingrained in the "experienced" group, and that they were better off teaching from scratch they way they wanted drivers taught.
They also came to the conclusion that they could teach anybody to be a good driver, but they couldn't train people to be nice, so attitude won out over ability.
Attitude is also important in beekeeping. Think you know it all, and the bees will quickly adjust your attitude! :laugh:
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"most of us are humbled by the fact that beekeeping is a lifelong learning experience, full of surprises, and ruled largely by Murphy’s Law."
is there anything positive that you fellas would like to pass along to a beginning beek relative to this article that might stumble in here reading this thread?
i hear what you all are saying, however a beginning beek would probably shy away from the replies here or make their head spin and personally i wouldn't bother to read it, constructive discussion of the article i would read.....
"When they ask me whats a good Place to put a hive ? After a lot of Deep thought I have come to the conclusion pick a good looking Place, in girlie terms, pretty and beautiful. That's where the bees like to bee, and most of them are Girls anyway, the ones who decide and make the important decisions anyway ;D
'in girlie terms, pretty and beautiful' edward, that's where you place your bees and tell others to do? how is this helpful to a beginning beek?
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Where there are lots of different flowers.
All the places I have my bees are full of nature and after working my hive I can sit down and look at mother nature's wonderful work.
None of my bee yards are in ugly eyesore places :no:
Gardens, fields, Forests , meadows :yes:
mvh Edward :P
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pretty and beautiful' edward, that's where you place your bees and tell others to do? how is this helpful to a beginning beek?
Think about it?
Do you have your bees in ugly places?
Or are they in good looking places? Full of nature.
mvh Edward :P
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What about the rule that one needs to get rid of cordovan & similar strains that lay themselves into non-existence at the worst possible times of year, with people wondering why the bees are "dying off"...suffering from "colony collapse"...etc?
Mites stacked on mite diseases, stacked on big ag chemicals, stacked on lack of forage. Some bees make it through the weather, like what some of you fellas out east are working with.
The queens favored in cali are being bred to lay themselves stupid, to beef up the hive numbers for the almond pollination...So those fine folks of the west coast orientation can meet the frame count/max payment.
It's so so simple to get beekeeping back on the right track ;D
Some of you older fellas out there are just starting to see the queens not lasting.... You old timers ye know of the older bee of the 4-5 yr breed!
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Riverbee, I feel like we are being spanked for our reaction to the original post. :P :laugh:
I could search up statistics on the number of people who start beekeekping courses, the number who finish courses and buy bees and the numbers who are still in it three years afterward. Are those numbers something that should be kept from would be beekeepers? To me embellishing some aspects, and under rating others, is taking advantage of naivety.
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Beauty is in the eye of the beholder ;D. I like to put my hives in wild and woolly places,non cultivatable, grown up fence rows woods with lots of brush and weeds, wild blackberry, and raspberry , gooseberry vines and bushes, wild possum grapes, su- mac, persimmon trees,Maple trees, Willow trees, black locust, black haw, wild redbud, dog wood,Mulberry trees, ect. ect,. These are beautiful places for my bees, and me. 8) Except, these places also have Ticks, Chiggers, and sometimes poison snakes. :o Jack
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Aww, Mrs River.. Didn't mean to make you upset, but... CROFTER STARTED IT!!! :yes: (POINTS at Crofter)
A LITTLE thought about the difficulties is usually GOOD though. Someone thinking that keeping bees is hiving them and then taking honey once or twice a year will be in for a big let down, and will waste their money, time, and the bees they buy.
Someone who is more determined and excited, but KNOWS the troubles will find much joy and relaxation, as well as GOOD friends on this forum to help them when they do have problems.. granted... I admit the thread was looking pretty gloomy, sort of like the mood all us northern folks are in right now.. spring is SO CLOSE and yet so far away...
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Aww, Mrs River.. Didn't mean to make you upset, but... CROFTER STARTED IT!!! :yes: (POINTS at Crofter)
A LITTLE thought about the difficulties is usually GOOD though. Someone thinking that keeping bees is hiving them and then taking honey once or twice a year will be in for a big let down, and will waste their money, time, and the bees they buy.
Someone who is more determined and excited, but KNOWS the troubles will find much joy and relaxation, as well as GOOD friends on this forum to help them when they do have problems.. granted... I admit the thread was looking pretty gloomy, sort of like the mood all us northern folks are in right now.. spring is SO CLOSE and yet so far away...
Spring isn't too far away! The trick is putting in packages, and having some good queens to drop in there.
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Agree with OP, misconception are very important to learn, as well as rules...
WARNING to new beekeepers who are usually knowledge thirsty
Not every book about beekeeping is a good source of knowledge
There are authors out there who have more experience blogging and writing about bees, then actually beekeeping
Keep your mind open for new things, but remember there is a reason some keepers are successful year after year doing it their way
There is a search button on every beekeeping forum, start digging
Got to love this internet thing, you will find what our friends tec and Iddee wrote on other sites about certain issues 7 or 8 years ago
Some of others who wouldn't agree with them back then, now are "teaching" the same thing, they were against :o
Ask questions, there are people willing to share their knowledge
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Agree with OP, misconception are very important to learn, as well as rules...
WARNING to new beekeepers who are usually knowledge thirsty
Not every book about beekeeping is a good source of knowledge
There are authors out there who have more experience blogging and writing about bees, then actually beekeeping
Keep your mind open for new things, but remember there is a reason some keepers are successful year after year doing it their way
There is a search button on every beekeeping forum, start digging
Got to love this internet thing, you will find what our friends tec and Iddee wrote on other sites about certain issues 7 or 8 years ago
Some of others who wouldn't agree with them back then, now are "teaching" the same thing, they were against :o
Ask questions, there are people willing to share their knowledge
Well said Marbees!
:agree:
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a snip....
The “Beekeeper Taliban”
tecumseh....
I wonder where you got that sound bite???
I would suggest that there does seem to be a lot of poorly stated information on the net. I always hope that even though the advice might be 'all wrong' that the people intention in stating something that seem to me to be totally absurd do have the right intentions. It is quite a dilemma for me since financially I would be much better off simply nodding my head when I read this poorly stated advice since I then at least in theory have the opportunity to sell them a replacement hive when the kill their hive(s). I see some very polished web sites of known 'authorities' but then when I did a bit deeper find they can't seem to keep bees alive longer that one or two season and often times in a setting that at least at one time was considered to be very desirable bee pasture. What is a simple beekeeper to think? Or do?
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a marsbee snip..
Got to love this internet thing, you will find what our friends tec and Iddee wrote on other sites about certain issues 7 or 8 years ago
Some of others who wouldn't agree with them back then, now are "teaching" the same thing, they were against
Ask questions, there are people willing to share their knowledge
tecumseh...
I don't go wandering over there since I was so rudely tossed by the owner. glad to see that some of my own and iddee's notions have finally set in. I guess if iddee and I share any characteristic beyond enjoying arguing about politics it is both of us seem to reduce beekeeping to it basic essence... we both seem to share the idea that if simple works why even consider 'totally complex and confusing'. strange how a person develops notions.... but I think the first time I read one of iddee post I pretty well knew without a doubt that he had a deep understanding of beekeeping.
of course one problem with the net is it is not so easy to figure out how much real expertise is behind some opinion.
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tecumseh...
of course one problem with the net is it is not so easy to figure out how much real expertise is behind some opinion.
Well said, tecumseh. It's like the personal ads on Craigslist! The writer never quite looks like the description that they have given of themselves. :o
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a snip....
I would suggest that there does seem to be a lot of poorly stated information on the net. I always hope that even though the advice might be 'all wrong' that the people intention in stating something that seem to me to be totally absurd do have the right intentions. It is quite a dilemma for me since financially I would be much better off simply nodding my head when I read this poorly stated advice since I then at least in theory have the opportunity to sell them a replacement hive when the kill their hive(s). I see some very polished web sites of known 'authorities' but then when I did a bit deeper find they can't seem to keep bees alive longer that one or two season and often times in a setting that at least at one time was considered to be very desirable bee pasture. What is a simple beekeeper to think? Or do?
I agree, and it took me a while to figure a lot of it out. I had to return to keeping bees the way my Mentor kept bees instead of using some of the crazy ideas I read about.. When I helped my "Mentor" I just did what he said to do, I didnt ask enough questions, I never worried about WHY he did things a certain way, and after his loss, I found myself with my own bees, and a lot of skill in working with bees, but not nearly enough KNOWLEDGE, so i started looking. In Defense of SOME of those places, and probably my own site.. How you keep bees, Where you keep bees, what kind of bees you keep, and how MANY bees you keep will often change HOW you keep bees..
I like my Foundation-less frames.. the VP of our local club and I will often argue about the merits of HIS waxed foundation over my Foundation-Less frames. He lives about a fifteen minute drive from my house. He started keeping bees before there was internet. He bought a book, read it, and caught feral bees, and has been keeping bees ever since. He has had to figure out how to keep his bees alive through diseases and mites with little or no help, so he is a wealth of information, but he also does things I don't prefer to do.
I go to meeting, I go to ALL the local classes, (having the chance to ask questions and learn should never be overlooked) even if I have been to them before, and often don't agree with what I hear. But I also try to see the reasons for the things I disagree with. It has caused me to modify some of the things I learned how to do.
Several beeks nearby have had starve outs this year because of the long and brutal cold snaps. One of the two beeks within "bee" range of my house has lost all of his hives due to starve out.. The other is currently at 50% loss.
They wintered in two deeps, fed in the fall, and made SURE they were well prepared.. I use three mediums, which is about the same amount of space.. I have only lost ONE hive so far, and that loss was sort of expected when it got so brutally cold for so long. The moral here I suppose, is that almost everyone I have talked to has disagreed with my method of adding sugar to the top of the hive WHEN I wintered in early November.. but guess where my bees are right now? Maybe it is because I stayed away from bees ordered from the deep south?? The ONE hive I have lost so far IS from the deep south, they made last winter barely, but didnt make this one... No correlation? I can't tell you.. They died because they didnt move up to the box above that was filled with honey.
Does that mean everyone needs to prepare this way?? With sugar ON in case they cant get into the hive until March? Not at all. But, despite many thinking it is very wrong, it is working well for me with the conditions we have had this winter..
If ventilation is different, Humidity and temperature, and even the constant wind we have, the method I use might be disastrous in a different situation...
So have patience with us Tec, eventually, we will ALL see the wisdom posted by You, Iddee, Perry and the other keeps who have been there and done that. All any of us can do is learn from our mistakes and seek out more reputable sources of information.
Let the frustration slide off, and keep posting. It IS beekeepers like you, Iddee, Perry, and so many others that gets the rest of us back on the right track when we screw up.
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a snip....
The “Beekeeper Taliban”
tecumseh....
I wonder where you got that sound bite???
I would suggest that there does seem to be a lot of poorly stated information on the net. I always hope that even though the advice might be 'all wrong' that the people intention in stating something that seem to me to be totally absurd do have the right intentions. It is quite a dilemma for me since financially I would be much better off simply nodding my head when I read this poorly stated advice since I then at least in theory have the opportunity to sell them a replacement hive when the kill their hive(s). I see some very polished web sites of known 'authorities' but then when I did a bit deeper find they can't seem to keep bees alive longer that one or two season and often times in a setting that at least at one time was considered to be very desirable bee pasture. What is a simple beekeeper to think? Or do?
from randy olivers website tecumseh, scientific beekeeping.
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The number one rule for successful beekeeping?
Have fun!
If you're not, you're doing it all wrong!
If you have success,...........enjoy it!
If you have failure,............learn from it!
If you have learned something,.........share it!
That is the measure of success. ;)
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Lazybkpr, Perry says you have to get rid of your bees. You can only keep them for fun, not just to tick off your wife. :o ;D
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Iddee ""Lazybkpr, Perry says you have to get rid of your bees. You can only keep them for fun, not just to tick off your wife.""
LOLOL !
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Great idea Iddee!
Lazy, you can give them to me, and probably tick off your wife in the process. A win-win kinda thing!
Iddee, you're a genius at times!
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LOL!!
While it IS amusing to see her go running off flapping her arms saying EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE That is NOT the purpose.. THE purpose comes AFTER she ran off, when I sit down among the bees and enjoy my Drink, with ONLY the sound of wings in my ears. ;D
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I had to re read the previous post; I thought for a second there that LZBKPR was telling us he had sprouted wings! :o
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In my ears no less! Thats talent my friend!
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No, on your shoulders! I knew I must have misread!
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O:-)
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Lazy? is that a halo on your head.....? :laugh:
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Perry writes...
The number one rule for successful beekeeping?
Have fun!
tecumseh...
as far as I can tell beekeeping now and in the past has always been a lot of work. work and fun as far as I can tell are not mutually exclusive concepts. and if you ain't learnin' something, you probably ain't payin' attention.
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riverbee writes...
from randy olivers website tecumseh, scientific beekeeping.
tecumseh...
I kind of figured that is where you obtain that sound bite Riverbee. Did you ever wonder what prompted Randy to coin the term? I suspect that could make for an interesting story. I suspect (based solely on personal behavior) that Randy Oliver doesn't tolerate fools so well!