Worldwide Beekeeping

Beekeeping => General Beekeeping => Topic started by: Zweefer on May 14, 2014, 09:47:25 pm

Title: WHOOO HOOO!
Post by: Zweefer on May 14, 2014, 09:47:25 pm
My nucs are in!  I pick them up tomorrow after work!  ;D ;D

Any last minute advice you'd care to share?
Title: Re: WHOOO HOOO!
Post by: apisbees on May 14, 2014, 09:53:44 pm
Have fun
Title: Re: WHOOO HOOO!
Post by: LazyBkpr on May 14, 2014, 09:59:18 pm
Yes.. DONT be knocking on the nuc just to hear them buzz!!!  You will irritate them and they will make you pay!!!    ;D

   Good deal Zweefer! Hope they do you right!
Title: Re: WHOOO HOOO!
Post by: Lburou on May 14, 2014, 10:08:44 pm
Glad to hear they are coming!  No advice myself, but here (http://scientificbeekeeping.com/first-year-care-for-your-nuc/) is Randy Oliver's advice for people getting their first Nuc.  HTH  :)
Title: Re: WHOOO HOOO!
Post by: blueblood on May 14, 2014, 10:10:10 pm
Just savor the moment Z.  Take your time and enjoy it.  The bees will thank you for being calm too.  And pics!   :)
Title: WHOOO HOOO!
Post by: Zweefer on May 14, 2014, 10:52:23 pm
I promise pics.  thanks for the link Lburou!
Calm will be tough, but obtainable.  ;D
Title: Re: WHOOO HOOO!
Post by: kebee on May 15, 2014, 08:57:40 am
Remember the feeling, good luck with them.

Ken
Title: Re: WHOOO HOOO!
Post by: efmesch on May 15, 2014, 09:08:57 am
Treat them the way you want them to treat you.    :)
Title: Re: WHOOO HOOO!
Post by: riverbee on May 15, 2014, 11:12:19 am
enjoy, enjoy, enjoy zweefer!

wish i could be there to take pix and help you out.... ;)  you will do just great!!!
Title: Re: WHOOO HOOO!
Post by: Zweefer on May 15, 2014, 11:56:35 am
I'll be thinking of you as I drive past, and because of a certain story have packed my suit in the vehicle... I94 can be a dangerous stretch for bees apparently :-)


Title: Re: WHOOO HOOO!
Post by: LazyBkpr on May 15, 2014, 12:39:07 pm
LOL.. I hope you havent spilled any Honey B Gone or Bee go in the vehicle?

   Waiting for the "call" myself.. may be this afternoon, may be tomorrow...   I may wait till Sat to hive them..  rainy today, supposed to be rainy cloudy and 55 deg tomorrow as well.
Title: Re: WHOOO HOOO!
Post by: Papakeith on May 15, 2014, 12:59:18 pm
enjoy them.  watch them, have fun.

Good Luck!
Title: WHOOO HOOO!
Post by: Zweefer on May 15, 2014, 08:52:04 pm
Only 46, cloudy and threatening rain... This is as far as I go today :-(

(https://worldwidebeekeeping.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.tapatalk.com%2Fd%2F14%2F05%2F16%2F5eqe4ape.jpg&hash=4014948f9e652fb7b0429260796d6354)

Some bees doing orientation flights, but as I thought, not much activity upon opening the holes...  Hopefully I can transfer them tomorrow.
Title: Re: WHOOO HOOO!
Post by: LazyBkpr on May 15, 2014, 09:01:58 pm
Good plan, but get a brick or something to put on them if you have storms coming.  dont want to walk out tomorrow and find them 50 feet across the yard...   At least they are CLOSE to home now!
    I may wait till Saturday to hive the packages, looking worse for tomorrow each time I look at the weather :(
Title: Re: WHOOO HOOO!
Post by: Zweefer on May 15, 2014, 09:13:55 pm
didn't even cross my mind!
Corrected.  Thanks.
Title: Re: WHOOO HOOO!
Post by: riverbee on May 15, 2014, 09:50:50 pm
"I'll be thinking of you as I drive past, and because of a certain story have packed my suit in the vehicle... I94 can be a dangerous stretch for bees apparently :-)"

....... :D only if you are transporting double deep hives in the back and trunk of a buick that come undone, cuz they weren't properly strapped.....
 and there was bee go and another smelly smell in it..... :D

see you did great with driving I 94 with those nucs, and great pix! good idea on the bricks, or some weight on them,  and i think you already took care of some rain cover, just in case?!

best wishes to you tomorrow getting them settled in! 

Title: Re: WHOOO HOOO!
Post by: Jen on May 15, 2014, 10:19:26 pm
PICS! When you in view  ;D
Title: Re: WHOOO HOOO!
Post by: Zweefer on May 15, 2014, 10:23:07 pm
If things work out tomorrow, I promise I will.
Title: Re: WHOOO HOOO!
Post by: blueblood on May 16, 2014, 11:24:58 am
It's been unseasonably cold here.  It is supposed to warm up after today. 
Title: Re: WHOOO HOOO!
Post by: Zweefer on May 17, 2014, 11:46:13 am
Sorry it's a day late - had family obligations last night...

I came home to find several bees out and about, so figured it was warm enough to transfer them to their new homes.

My boys wanted to help, so one suited up, while the other appointed himself official photographer. My daughter thought it would be best if she let the dog out for protection and stay a safe distance away in my jeep  ;D

As for the nucs themselves, they were a bit different then i had expected.  Several frames had been repaired (metal braces on the frames) and the comb was wonky on several. I had to scrape propolis off the ends of the frames to get them to fit in the super.  The rest made up for it though, as they looked like newer comb, and was straight.   I am not saying I was expecting virgin frames and comb, but was hoping for something that would be a bit easier to install...   Is this normal on a nuc?

As for installation, it went fairly well.  just a bit of trouble with the tenth frame, as some of the wonky comb made it tight.
I just hope i didn't roll a queen while sliding frames...

here are some photos as promised...


(https://worldwidebeekeeping.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fs27.postimg.cc%2F8p36k8m27%2FDSCF0595.jpg&hash=1f8825d7375d484cf62bc3fe7a74e34c) (http://postimg.cc/image/8p36k8m27/)
Extra frames in Jeep.  Sure is nice to have (mostly) drawn comb to add to the nucs!


(https://worldwidebeekeeping.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fs30.postimg.cc%2Fix9npm8i5%2FDSCF0597.jpg&hash=b81fe4916887ee68e4046d7941db4892) (http://postimg.cc/image/ix9npm8i5/)
Quinten and I ready to work!


(https://worldwidebeekeeping.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fs23.postimg.cc%2Ffy5lrre7b%2FDSCF0605.jpg&hash=9cbda4e899b815a4a94951117a9790c3) (http://postimg.cc/image/fy5lrre7b/)
Smoking the nucs


(https://worldwidebeekeeping.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fs11.postimg.cc%2Fbc0e33pz3%2FDSCF0619.jpg&hash=d528cc177f2c26db44efe756467351a7) (http://postimg.cc/image/bc0e33pz3/)
Elijah though it was cool to see the foragers returning with full pollen baskets.


(https://worldwidebeekeeping.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fs14.postimg.cc%2Fcmo9dydkt%2FDSCF0637.jpg&hash=6bed3391f65f1e06a422b050d0360807) (http://postimg.cc/image/cmo9dydkt/)
some of the wonky comb...  maybe I was way off in expectations?

 
(https://worldwidebeekeeping.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fs22.postimg.cc%2Ffstzoxexp%2FDSCF0641.jpg&hash=0ec23e7b28d9d8fd073bb063110e5e8e) (http://postimg.cc/image/fstzoxexp/)
This is more what i had in mind....



(https://worldwidebeekeeping.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fs18.postimg.cc%2Fuwd7ym6it%2FDSCF0674.jpg&hash=0b1247112736dac419d48bd2f3ac3e25) (http://postimg.cc/image/uwd7ym6it/)
Added some syrup until the new comb has been drawn, or more than dandelions are in bloom, whichever comes first.

 (https://worldwidebeekeeping.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fs2.postimg.cc%2F8cdru5oyd%2FDSCF0677.jpg&hash=d11c921917daee0388e2d92271cfad4e) (http://postimg.cc/image/8cdru5oyd/)
all happy in their new home (we hope)!


Not pictured is the bricks we put on top of the covers after the photo was taken...

Title: Re: WHOOO HOOO!
Post by: Jen on May 17, 2014, 11:55:29 am
Wow! I'm just grinning from ear to ear! Happy to see your kids involved. I need to get a suit for my 2 years old grandson, he's already been stung by a bee, cried for about 10 minutes, went back out and started talking to the 'bee bugs' again. Happy for you  ;D

Title: Re: WHOOO HOOO!
Post by: Zweefer on May 17, 2014, 11:55:36 am
The kids (and myself to a small extent) were disappointed to learn they couldn't open it up right away again this morning to see how they were doing.   Other than check and change the syrup, when is it safe to open it up if for not other reason then to look to make sure we still have two queens?  :-\
Title: Re: WHOOO HOOO!
Post by: Zweefer on May 17, 2014, 11:57:49 am
Wow! I'm just grinning from ear to ear! Happy to see your kids involved. I need to get a suit for my 2 years old grandson, he's already been stung by a bee, cried for about 10 minutes, went back out and started talking to the 'bee bugs' again. Happy for you  ;D

The only sting received was the dog (which was why I had put her in the kennel to begin with).  She's a quick learner though, so shouldn't be much of a problem in the future  :)
Title: Re: WHOOO HOOO!
Post by: apisbees on May 17, 2014, 02:02:47 pm
in photo 6 the bee population on the frame looks to barely cover the brood. this could be caused by drift back of foragers when the nuc was made up. it is hard to tell from 1 frame but haw was the population of bees in the nuc box? lots of bees on each frame and more hanging on the box or all the bees on the frames with them sparse on the outside frames.
Title: Re: WHOOO HOOO!
Post by: Zweefer on May 17, 2014, 03:00:31 pm
I too thought population was a bit sparse...

There were none loose, just on the inner frames.  very few on the exterior.

And now to make matters worse, one hive has a ton of activity, the other appears to be nonexistent...

I think it may be being robbed by the other hive, as the only bees i see going into the slow one does not have any pollen in the baskets, and some appear to be coming right back out again - as if they were thrown out...

should i plug the entrance and hope it helps, or am i over worrying?
Title: Re: WHOOO HOOO!
Post by: Garden Hive on May 17, 2014, 03:30:17 pm
Hey there Zweefer,
Great that you got your nucs. By the looks of things, you got just fair nucs. I didn't see any capped honey around the brood in the photos.
The one dark brood frame was (just that), not wonky comb. I'm not crazy about that because there are no bees on it. Hopefully it had pollen and nectar in it.
You did good with the feed inside the boxes on top. With entrance reducers on you are giving them the best chance to defend and it is highly likely that they are.
Check on the feed, replenish as needed and let them bee for awhile.
Great to see the family excited about them!
Tim
Title: Re: WHOOO HOOO!
Post by: Zweefer on May 17, 2014, 03:34:35 pm
Thanks Tim.  My mentor is ill, so I've been doing this solo... that much time by myself without any affirmation / guidence / advice can be a dangerous thing.  all I needed was someone to calm me down.  :-\
Title: Re: WHOOO HOOO!
Post by: Slowmodem on May 17, 2014, 03:41:48 pm
Check on the feed, replenish as needed and let them bee for awhile.

I agree.  Check the feed every day.  They can go through a quart (or more) a day.  Give them all they want.  They have a lot of work to do.

Good luck!   :)
Title: WHOOO HOOO!
Post by: Zweefer on May 17, 2014, 05:27:52 pm
I'm an idiot!   I went to pick up some trash that got blown across the yard, and on the way back noticed this on the far side of the "slow" hive.

(https://worldwidebeekeeping.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.tapatalk.com%2Fd%2F14%2F05%2F18%2Fhy9e7ugy.jpg&hash=43e72847867ee7e6f08dac583e1d3ed5)
Completely forgot that cover had that opening cut in it... Guess that's why the front door wasn't that busy.

Should that face the same way as the entrance or doesn't it really matter?
Title: Re: WHOOO HOOO!
Post by: Garden Hive on May 17, 2014, 05:48:03 pm
That slot........(I) would close off because it allows quick access to the feed that robbers could get to. I'd cut a small wedge to stuff it.
JMO...........Tim
Title: Re: WHOOO HOOO!
Post by: Slowmodem on May 17, 2014, 07:21:00 pm
That slot........(I) would close off because it allows quick access to the feed that robbers could get to. I'd cut a small wedge to stuff it.
JMO...........Tim

a paper towel or rag will work, too
Title: Re: WHOOO HOOO!
Post by: LazyBkpr on May 17, 2014, 09:07:37 pm
I'm an idiot!   I went to pick up some trash that god blown across the yard, and on the way back noticed this on the far side of the "slow" hive.

(https://worldwidebeekeeping.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.tapatalk.com%2Fd%2F14%2F05%2F18%2Fhy9e7ugy.jpg&hash=43e72847867ee7e6f08dac583e1d3ed5)
Completely forgot that cover had that opening cut in it... Guess that's why the front door wasn't that busy.

Should that face the same way as the entrance or doesn't it really matter?

   You have no idea howmuch better it makes me feel to see other people do stuff like that...   I feel less alone in the world now Zweef!!!
   I'd just tape it or as mentioned plug it until you do the first check on the queen cage, then you can flip it.

(https://worldwidebeekeeping.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fs1.postimg.cc%2F9ptvrmr6z%2FDSCN0591.jpg&hash=0929b107fd99f888ecf7b38e7dae7138) (http://postimg.cc/image/9ptvrmr6z/)

   Bees are ugly this year..   I've never worn a suit to install packages until today..   6 ? stings in total, 4 installing and two when I replaced a dead queen/cage..   I put the suit on, and continued, so the bees decided to go after the wife!!!  That was the end of her videoing.. she got two stings, one on the back of the neck and one RIGHT on the tip of the nose...   Tried to get her into a suit, but she refused.. I suppose insisting would have made her even more resistant....

   Looks like a good day for you Zweefer, glad, GLAD to see you got the kids involved!!!
Title: Re: WHOOO HOOO!
Post by: Zweefer on May 17, 2014, 10:05:10 pm
sorry to hear of your troubles lazy... and am also sorry you quoted my typo (I'm blaming autocorrect).

The hole has been plugged.

It was a lot of fun just to sit and watch them coming and going this afternoon.  saw two different types of pollen judging by the color in the baskets.
I could have spent hours there if I didn't have other work to do (wife is putting up a fence around teh garden, and the chicken coop needed the chicken wire patched).

They don't seem to be taking much of the syrup though.. how long should I leave it sit out there?

Tomorrow is our monthly keepers meeting, and now i can finally feel like i truly belong :)
Title: Re: WHOOO HOOO!
Post by: LazyBkpr on May 17, 2014, 10:48:58 pm
Sitting and watching the bees is a requirement. It is necessary to insure that the new bees are going to go back to the right hive. You MUST sit and watch, and if you see a bee going in the wrong box you can gently herd her to the right one.................   Thats what I tell the wife.. OH, a mixed drink is usually part of the requirement, but a beer can be substituted!!!

   
(https://worldwidebeekeeping.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fs2.postimg.cc%2Fuffk5w42d%2FDSCN0599.jpg&hash=f132ff307f764a5392ea260279e1e68f) (http://postimg.cc/image/uffk5w42d/)
Title: Re: WHOOO HOOO!
Post by: Zweefer on May 17, 2014, 11:00:41 pm
Shoot!   I was drinking wine.  :-[
See?  I can't do anything right   :'(  :laugh:  :laugh:
And i didn't have a footrest.

I have so much to learn!
Title: Re: WHOOO HOOO!
Post by: LazyBkpr on May 17, 2014, 11:38:35 pm
Wine!!!!!    ............Facepalm............      Mead is acceptable, but only when your extracting!!!!   Unless of course you have nothing else available, then wine is perfectly acceptable!!!    :laugh:
Title: Re: WHOOO HOOO!
Post by: apisbees on May 18, 2014, 03:17:36 am
Just wondering LazyBkpr are you brave enough to post a picture of your wife's swolen ...  I bet Perry would have a slice pie if you posted.

Sent from my LG-P500h using Tapatalk 2

Title: Re: WHOOO HOOO!
Post by: blueblood on May 18, 2014, 06:24:56 am
Thanks for the pictures!  Enjoyed them.  I think you did a fine job.  My mentor was ill but simply didn't make it on the day I installed my first bees three years ago.  I was so glad for the same folks here in this forum at the time and all the books I had referenced.  It really carried me through.
Title: Re: WHOOO HOOO!
Post by: Slowmodem on May 18, 2014, 06:29:07 am
Sitting and watching the bees is a requirement.

What a great picture!

(What evil lurks in the hearts of men?  The Shadow knows!)
Title: Re: WHOOO HOOO!
Post by: Zweefer on May 18, 2014, 09:48:59 am
Thanks for the pictures!  Enjoyed them.  I think you did a fine job.  My mentor was ill but simply didn't make it on the day I installed my first bees three years ago.  I was so glad for the same folks here in this forum at the time and all the books I had referenced.  It really carried me through.

Thanks blueblood.
If it weren't for all of you fine folks, and the wealth of information here, I'm sure they would still be in the nucs awaiting Harold's return to health! :)

Title: Re: WHOOO HOOO!
Post by: riverbee on May 18, 2014, 01:16:30 pm
zweefer, very cool to see your children excited and interested in your beekeeping adventures!

some quotes from you, apis and gardenhive, followed by some comments from me:

"As for the nucs themselves, they were a bit different then i had expected.  Several frames had been repaired (metal braces on the frames) and the comb was wonky on several. I had to scrape propolis off the ends of the frames to get them to fit in the super.  The rest made up for it though, as they looked like newer comb, and was straight.   I am not saying I was expecting virgin frames and comb, but was hoping for something that would be a bit easier to install...   Is this normal on a nuc?"

"in photo 6 the bee population on the frame looks to barely cover the brood. this could be caused by drift back of foragers when the nuc was made up. it is hard to tell from 1 frame but haw was the population of bees in the nuc box?"

"I too thought population was a bit sparse..."

"By the looks of things, you got just fair nucs. I didn't see any capped honey around the brood in the photos.  The one dark brood frame was (just that), not wonky comb. I'm not crazy about that because there are no bees on it. Hopefully it had pollen and nectar in it. "

i know the supplier zweefer.  in recent years he figured out rather quickly he could make some extra money adding 'nucs' to his business because of the influx of new beekeepers.  is this a nuc? yes and no, and the metal frames, wonky dark comb is just someone else's junk cycled out and sold to you. empty frames are unacceptable, bees need pollen and honey to be healthy. from his website this is what you should have received, and i see no honey or pollen or a population of bees that ought to be in those nucs:

"5 Frame nucleuses Colony with new queen
Our nucs will be coming out of Texas around the first part of May (depending on weather). They will have at
least 3 frames with brood and 2 frames with honey and pollen. The queens are raised using Italian –Carnelian
cross. Experience shows these to be good producers. "


what you were sold are divided hives made into nucs, with bees and brood and a newly introduced queen, not a proven laying queen, and she was most likely directly released into the nuc. (he teaches direct release). not sure if he purchased hives from texas and had them shipped up here, and divided them himself, (my guess given the lack of bees, pollen and honey), and also where these queens come from.  they are not his queens.

i don't purchase nucs of this sort.  i purchase 5 frame nucs with a proven laying queen, that are typically overflowing with bees and brood and the appropriate frames of pollen and honey.  like garden hive said a 'fair nuc', and as apis said about the population,  i would say you received a nuc that is less than fair.  he asks for beeks to return the cardboard boxes.  if it were me, i would tell him the nucs were less than satisfactory, and i wouldn't return them.  did you have 3 frames of brood with bees covering that brood?  did you have 2 frames of honey/pollen?

sorry i don't mean to rain on your parade, but i have seen too many new beeks with problems from this supplier.  he used to teach  beeks who took his classes, to destroy their bees in the fall,  not to waste money to feed them, or treat them for mites and  let them die off of cold and starvation, and just order packages and nucs for the following spring, that it was cheaper. not sure if he has changed his tune on this. i disagree with this practice, and how will any new beekeeper learn to keep bees, and have a successful honey crop?

with that said, he is a knowledgeable beekeeper, but i think unscrupulous in that he is  willing and does take advantage of unsuspecting new beekeepers like yourself. so sorry this happened to you.  i was hesitant to say anything, because i know how excited you were and are.  so the next step is to help you get these 2 hives booming.  we have a good nectar flow on with the dandelions and with the incoming pollen will encourage the new queens to lay, and also with the feed on. also the feed will help, because there probably isn't enough foragers. it will take them sometime to build up, so just be patient.
i would pay particular close attention to the queen's laying patterns  the next time you go in the hives.

sorry about the 'rain parade' just being honest.......and we are all here to help ya get them squared away!!!

Title: Re: WHOOO HOOO!
Post by: Jen on May 18, 2014, 05:11:12 pm
Scott said  ""Sitting and watching the bees is a requirement. It is necessary to insure that the new bees are going to go back to the right hive. You MUST sit and watch, and if you see a bee going in the wrong box you can gently herd her to the right one.................   Thats what I tell the wife.. OH, a mixed drink is usually part of the requirement, but a beer can be substituted!!!""

(https://worldwidebeekeeping.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fs9.postimg.cc%2Fm72vr5tl7%2FDSCN0599.jpg&hash=de91945461ab81835f80d2ebc2e2698c) (http://postimage.cc/)

Jen said ""What ever lights your candle Brutha!""

(https://worldwidebeekeeping.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fs7.postimg.cc%2F6u183eeev%2FDSCF9590.jpg&hash=adbd965862434f4416d8f706eccaf63c) (http://postimg.cc/image/6u183eeev/)
Title: WHOOO HOOO!
Post by: Zweefer on May 19, 2014, 12:40:40 am
I certainly did not get what I was promised.  Here was one of the outer frames - I couldn't find any honey or pollen...
(https://worldwidebeekeeping.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.tapatalk.com%2Fd%2F14%2F05%2F19%2F9y6egudy.jpg&hash=29c4e866dc2ba48d8a5a1a4e54a5d763)
And the other side
(https://worldwidebeekeeping.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.tapatalk.com%2Fd%2F14%2F05%2F19%2F6ejegene.jpg&hash=cdc7f3b3d97b1a7afa79976c199b3cbe)

I did see this on a frame however...

(https://worldwidebeekeeping.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.tapatalk.com%2Fd%2F14%2F05%2F19%2Fqa5e3e4a.jpg&hash=e493851f4178296fc2c1b92cbe77e535)

I'll post more once I get to my camera - these are what I took off the phone.  My other son was taking photos as well...
Title: Re: WHOOO HOOO!
Post by: Zweefer on May 19, 2014, 01:01:29 am
here is a top look at the nuc frames (I removed my 2 right before) from the end .  notice one of the metal brackets I was talking about? I has two like that...
(https://worldwidebeekeeping.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fs28.postimg.cc%2Fe7fl0pruh%2Fnuc_form_end.jpg&hash=13c6bda7e553b8da5b6a16bf0908465e) (http://postimg.cc/image/e7fl0pruh/)

Here is a better shot of one of the frames i was calling "wonky"
(https://worldwidebeekeeping.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fs27.postimg.cc%2Fnpy63bt73%2Fwonky.jpg&hash=6c5ebcaaa431a83686edc6a5f0b6fb2f) (http://postimg.cc/image/npy63bt73/)

One of my brood frames
(https://worldwidebeekeeping.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fs1.postimg.cc%2F3txhmo48b%2Fpoor_brood_2.jpg&hash=d66ff23193615daf38a033c42d09bfc4) (http://postimg.cc/image/3txhmo48b/)

This was probably the best frame I had... not seeing much for any honey stores or pollen?

(https://worldwidebeekeeping.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fs1.postimg.cc%2F8js0p0kmj%2Fbest_frame.jpg&hash=8dfb69e38e163dfbd2301877fb7e83de) (http://postimg.cc/image/8js0p0kmj/)

Once again, notice the repair on the frame (my right hand)


(https://worldwidebeekeeping.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fs28.postimg.cc%2F4s8wezol5%2Fmetal_bracket.jpg&hash=f5e56a2960306a3f42fad9f5e12029a8) (http://postimg.cc/image/4s8wezol5/)


I think the rose is off the bloom.  I got hosed on these nucs didn't I?  :sad:

Is this worth trying to save, or should I demand my money back?

My problem at this point in time is finding new bees to replace - all packages are gone, and I don't think anyone is taking orders for nucs in the area.  :'(


Title: Re: WHOOO HOOO!
Post by: Zweefer on May 19, 2014, 01:05:57 am
and because I don't want to end on a depressing note... here is a shot or two my son got of my daughter that made me smile.


(https://worldwidebeekeeping.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fs23.postimg.cc%2F55xsjwknb%2FMariam.jpg&hash=fc69b80cf5698a59ed78dd6042d89e8e) (http://postimg.cc/image/55xsjwknb/)


(https://worldwidebeekeeping.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fs2.postimg.cc%2Fr4f2q519h%2Fheart.jpg&hash=abcd3cae8c2a040f5e7db29840d6f2dd) (http://postimg.cc/image/r4f2q519h/)
Title: Re: WHOOO HOOO!
Post by: Jen on May 19, 2014, 01:15:32 am
On the frame you call 'wonky', is that larvae and eggs there in the middle?
Title: Re: WHOOO HOOO!
Post by: Zweefer on May 19, 2014, 01:19:37 am
I don't think there are any there... I didn't see any when i looked - I think it may be the reflection of the sun off the plastic (the inner portion was not drawn out hardly at all- this the change in color and the ability to see the plastic foundation beneath it.
Title: Re: WHOOO HOOO!
Post by: Jen on May 19, 2014, 01:36:55 am
River- ""so the next step is to help you get these 2 hives booming.  we have a good nectar flow on with the dandelions and with the incoming pollen will encourage the new queens to lay, and also with the feed on. also the feed will help, because there probably isn't enough foragers. it will take them sometime to build up, so just be patient.
i would pay particular close attention to the queen's laying patterns the next time you go in the hives.""

Zweefer- Bummer Dude! But don't give up on these bees this early in the year. I believe they can make it. Feed, feed, feed, water, water, water. They just need some TLC!

Hey you guys out there?!? What would happen if he gave these neglected bees some pollen subsitute?

You're in the right place Zweefer! So many educated beekeepers here! Raw Raw Shish Boom Bah!  :D
Title: Re: WHOOO HOOO!
Post by: riverbee on May 19, 2014, 11:12:34 am
the next step?  after seeing these photos, these bees are doomed.  i hope others chime in here, but i told zweefer to get his money back.  did you find the queens zweefer? i can tell by looking at these frames that they are very old, the comb is very dark. having metal brackets on frames, ears break off, but these frames should have been thrown out. the frame with the wonky comb is all drone cells, not sure if the wax was stripped off or if the comb was damaged at some point or it was cut. the other pic of the frame your boy is holding, the foundation has not been drawn out.  you shouldn't get this in any nuc.  the population of bees is poor, there is no pollen or honey to feed what little brood there is, and they will dwindle down to nothing. 

i am trying to find bees for you zweefer. 
Title: Re: WHOOO HOOO!
Post by: Jen on May 19, 2014, 12:29:06 pm
River! You Are Such A Prize For All Of Us. I would like to help in any way that I can as well...
Title: Re: WHOOO HOOO!
Post by: LazyBkpr on May 19, 2014, 02:04:42 pm
Been sitting here looking at the pictures...  looking for a queen, but don't have all the sides.  I would not write them off as of yet. There is some worker brood. My concern would be seeing eggs and other stages of larvae, as well as seeing the queen. Both to insure she is there, and to insure she IS laying.
    My opinion is not "quite" as bad as Mrs Rivers, but I do agree that this is not an optimal nuc.   IF, the queens can get the ball rolling from where they are, I would begin rotating out that bad comb at the least.  I have started with much worse, but also have the resources to add bees and brood.
  From what Mrs River said I have my doubts about any refund or replacement. When the next inspection rolls around, take a magnifying glass with you and let us know if you find eggs or young Larvae. Also look for the queen, or take pics of each frame/side and post so we can zoom in a bit and aid in the "inspection"
   It does appear that old frames were given specifically to get them out of the Apiary. I would be embarrassed to give anyone something that looked like that, much less make them pay for it, but all is not lost if there is a laying queen, it will just take them a bit to get squared away. It is early, they have the time to do it.
   Zweef, did he say the queens were new this year? Did he give an age?
Title: Re: WHOOO HOOO!
Post by: Jen on May 19, 2014, 03:02:08 pm
Scott- ""When the next inspection rolls around, take a magnifying glass with you and let us know if you find eggs or young Larvae. Also look for the queen, or take pics of each frame/side and post so we can zoom in a bit and aid in the "inspection""

and- ""It does appear that old frames were given specifically to get them out of the Apiary. I would be embarrassed to give anyone something that looked like that, much less make them pay for it, but all is not lost if there is a laying queen, it will just take them a bit to get squared away. It is early, they have the time to do it.

and- ""Zweef, did he say the queens were new this year? Did he give an age?""

     Nice bit of hopeful advice here Scott. I think they can make it! But in the mean time, I sure would like for Zweef to find a couple more healthy nucs just to keep his spirits high. And frankly, I seriously doubt that the seller of these nucs are going to give an honest answer on the age of the queens.

    Really sorry this happened Zweefer, but hope is not lost! We got your back buddy!  ;) 8)
Title: Re: WHOOO HOOO!
Post by: CpnObvious on May 19, 2014, 03:41:12 pm
The only sting received was the dog (which was why I had put her in the kennel to begin with).  She's a quick learner though, so shouldn't be much of a problem in the future  :)

I worry about one of my dogs, the dalmatian.  He's not the brightest thing out there.  He's a great dog, very faithful and friendly, but about as dumb as a box of rocks.  He likes to eat, or at least try to catch and chew, flying things.  Yes, that includes wasps and hornets.
Title: Re: WHOOO HOOO!
Post by: Jen on May 19, 2014, 03:52:35 pm
All of my dogs have chased and eaten flying 'things'. It's my understanding that dalmatians have a strong hearing impairment, and often are completely deaf. Most often owners of dalmatians don't know this trait and think their dog is 'dumb', when in fact they are very smart when taught 'signals' rather than thru words  ;) 8)
Title: Re: WHOOO HOOO!
Post by: Lburou on May 19, 2014, 04:41:28 pm
I have to say that I admire the restraint you have shown by not naming the supplier.............Unless I missed it. 

That one frame looks like it was scraped down to the foundation (shb or wax moth damage?) and the bees built it back up (at least partially).  Those bees could have been sold in California after almonds, split, fed, and then divided again to make NUCs as was suggested above.  When sold to you, it was not a growing colony of bees. Bummer!

If you are lucky, you might get them through the year if you feed, feed, feed!  Good luck  :)
Title: Re: WHOOO HOOO!
Post by: riverbee on May 19, 2014, 05:00:08 pm
lee, agreed, a great deal of restraint. it is up to zweefer if he chooses to name the supplier, i have refrained from doing so, but have no problem identifying him so that others don't fall victim. and very good points on where their origination actually was, and would tend to think the same as you.

scott, you and i and others here, as experienced beeks could salvage the nucs IF there are queens present. if not, combine the bees and requeen.  but by then?  we have the knowledge and experience and also resources to do so, extra honey/pollen frames and drawn foundation.  what a way for a bran new beek to start out with and be 'strapped' with and flying by the seat of his pants to fix it.  good learning experience but not what he was promised and paid for. 

"I would be embarrassed to give anyone something that looked like that, much less make them pay for it"

yep the supplier ought to be, and ashamed, especially that he has been a commercial beekeeper for 40 some years and i believe is still the vice president of the local bee club..........
Title: Re: WHOOO HOOO!
Post by: Zweefer on May 19, 2014, 05:58:02 pm
Have not said name yet... Calling now to see what comes of this. I'll let you all know.


Title: Re: WHOOO HOOO!
Post by: Zweefer on May 19, 2014, 07:37:25 pm
Here is where things stand. 
I called the supplier, and received a very defensive and rude reply that they had contacted everyone (they hadn't contacted me at either number checking through call log history) and that they knew they were "duds". But if I wanted to get them replaced I had to have them there by tonight.  Keep in mind it is over an hours drive for me, it is 5 PM and raining extremely heavily.  I said there was no way this could be done.  I got a very rude "well we told everybody".  So I then replied (albeit a bit less civilly than stated here) that if they knew they were duds they should not have given them out.  She then told me to speak to her husband (primary supplier).  After being on hold for 7 and a half minutes (I did time it) I was told much the same - that everyone was called, and he was packing up to exchange the bad ones.  I told him I never received a message on either line, and we need to make this right.  He told me if I couldn't get them to him tonight, perhaps we could meet at the interstate exit ( he was passing my way to make the exchange) at 4:45 AM.

I told him I would call him back.


After determining there was no way to try and load bees into nucs in this weather without doing serious damage to my vehicle, myself or the bees, I called back to say there was no way to make it.  I told him I was more than happy to meet up with him on the way back, and exchange them then.  After going back and forth for a while, I just stated that I would be speaking with my credit card company and be getting my money back as this clearly wasn't what I had paid for. 

He them decided he could check to see of they had "some extras to bring back" and that he would call me tomorrow. 

After we hung up it occurred to me that if he was going to exchange the bad ones I had, they most certainly should have those two wouldn't one think.    I decided not to call a third time, and will wait to see what is said tomorrow... I have however called my credit card company and put them on standby .

Sorry for the long post, but wanted to get the facts out there as plainly as possible without interjecting my emotion into this...   

If I can not reach a satisfactory conclusion to this whole fiasco you can bet I'll be telling who this supplier is.  I'll shout it from the rooftops, as well as tell another story regarding this supplier that was mentioned during our keepers meeting yesterday. 

Help me stay sane guys!!!


Title: Re: WHOOO HOOO!
Post by: Perry on May 19, 2014, 08:35:37 pm
This is really unfortunate, especially for someone starting out. I feel badly that this has happened to you Z.
On the frames, I agree with what has been said. A barely drawn out frame is a no-go for me. The one with wonky comb, I think Lee has hit it on the head, it looks like a comb that maybe had some drone cells scraped off and the bees are rebuilding the center part again (I have frames that look like that at times as well, scraping off wonky comb and letting bees repair it). I really didn't see a ton of bees on any of those frames, and the best brood frame wasn't exactly stellar. The frame repair (ear) is not too unusual, but I would not be inclined to put it in a nuc myself.
In Nova Scotia, there are not that many suppliers, so it doesn't take long for word to get out, so it is especially important to me to keep customers happy. That supplier is probably not too worried about repeat customers, cause he won't get any.
Hang in there and the good folks on the forum will help guide you, as many already seem to be.  ;)
Title: Re: WHOOO HOOO!
Post by: LazyBkpr on May 19, 2014, 08:48:34 pm
It has taken me many years to reach the point that I can LOOK and speak calmly when I am boiling mad. I have found it gets me further than dealing with blues brothers when I didnt remain calm.    ;D
Title: Re: WHOOO HOOO!
Post by: Slowmodem on May 19, 2014, 09:03:32 pm
I really hope you can get satisfaction from this supplier.  Hopefully, this supplier will learn from this.  If he doesn't, his business will suffer.

Proverbs 22:1  Choose a good reputation over great riches;
being held in high esteem is better than silver or gold.
Title: Re: WHOOO HOOO!
Post by: Jen on May 19, 2014, 09:09:02 pm
Zweef- ""He told me if I couldn't get them to him tonight, perhaps we could meet at the interstate exit ( he was passing my way to make the exchange) at 4:45 AM.""

I dunno about this part Zweef, sounds creepy to me, if you do exchange on the interstate exit, I hope you have a couple other people with you ~

And, if I were the supplier, I would 'add' additional bees, not exchange.
Title: Re: WHOOO HOOO!
Post by: Zweefer on May 19, 2014, 09:17:33 pm
Well see what is said tomorrow...


Title: Re: WHOOO HOOO!
Post by: iddee on May 19, 2014, 09:25:45 pm
If you exchange, take your hives and empty nuc boxes. Let him put them in the nuc boxes and you and him put the new ones in your hives. Have him show you each one and the queen. Be sure you have the entrances screened well if you don't have a pickup truck.
Title: Re: WHOOO HOOO!
Post by: Zweefer on May 19, 2014, 09:32:38 pm
Thanks iddee.  To be honest I'm not sure what to expect. I am hoping he will do the right thing and make good, but the more I sit and stew the less likely I think it will happen...


Title: Re: WHOOO HOOO!
Post by: iddee on May 19, 2014, 09:36:15 pm
Also, read reply #59 about 6 times, then read it again. It means a lot.
Title: Re: WHOOO HOOO!
Post by: Jen on May 19, 2014, 09:46:22 pm
Yah! And re-read reply #61. Can't help it, it's the mother hen in me  :)
Title: Re: WHOOO HOOO!
Post by: Zweefer on May 19, 2014, 09:53:11 pm
Agreed.


Title: Re: WHOOO HOOO!
Post by: pistolpete on May 19, 2014, 10:16:44 pm
If things don't turn out well with getting better Nucs, here are some thoughts on salvaging what you have.  1) even a colony with one frame of brood can make it to full strength if they have a good queen.  The difference is time.  A very strong Nuc will draw out 15 frames and start producing surplus honey by the end of June.  A weak Nuc will take until September to do the same.  2) combining the two Nucs to make one reasonable one will be better than having 2 that languish.   3) If you want to baby the two of them separately, make a styrofoam follower board.  this is a piece of styrofoam that fits snugly into a deep box and allows you to reduce the space in the hive.  Reduce them to 5 frames until they get stronger, then expand 2 frames at a time.  4) keep feeding them until they won't take any feed (this might be a couple of months).
Title: Re: WHOOO HOOO!
Post by: CpnObvious on May 19, 2014, 11:12:01 pm
Zweefer, sorry to read this has happened.  It's just not right... But I'll hold out hope for ya.  Between the folks here (and what should be good business sense from the supplier) I'm sure you'll do just fine!

Jen,
Patch's hearing is just fine.  Actually, it sometimes seems "too" good.  I love my dogs, they are truly part of the family... But seriously... Chasing and chewing on stinging insects... DUH!  Lol.
Title: Re: WHOOO HOOO!
Post by: apisbees on May 20, 2014, 04:09:13 pm
On post #42 the pictures of the comb it looks like the bees have salvaged the wax off the comb and they will be reluctant to draw the comb out further unless some wax is rubbed on to the bare plastic to encourage the bees
Pete has a good point above about combining the work force of the 2 nucs. I would not do a conventional combine if both queen are in the nucs and are laying. I would use a in hive feeder in the strongest nuc place an inner cover with a screen on each side of the feeder hole placed on top with the entrance notch facing up and out to the back of the hive. Next I would place the weaker nuc on top. and let them build up till one was a full box of bees then remove the screened inner cover and place a queen excluder over the bottom single then a honey super followed by another queen excluder then the second brood chamber. I would give them a week then place a queen excluder on top of the top colony followed by a super. I have done this with small splits and have had great honey crops from them.
Title: Re: WHOOO HOOO!
Post by: Jen on May 20, 2014, 09:45:57 pm
Apis   On post #42 the pictures of the comb it looks like the bees have salvaged the wax off the comb and they will be reluctant to draw the comb out further unless some wax is rubbed on to the bare plastic to encourage the bees""

I like this idea, but I don't think Zweef has any surplus wax"" I do know that he could get some pure beeswax off of Amazon, then he could melt it down and paint it on with a paint brush.
Title: Re: WHOOO HOOO!
Post by: LazyBkpr on May 20, 2014, 09:54:07 pm
News Zweef?
   I wish I was set up a bit better.  All my nucs are growing rapidly into hives..  if the situation isn't resolved, when I do summer splits I will order a couple of those cardboard nucs and overnight them.    I am still a bit steamed....  waiting on news.
Title: Re: WHOOO HOOO!
Post by: Zweefer on May 20, 2014, 10:22:20 pm
thank you all for the kind words and especially of the offer Lazy.

I waited all day for a call that never came.   Finally at 5 PM I called and left a message on their machine.  they called back at 6, but didn't have the right name. it took him a couple of tries to get that I was who i was and not some other person (whom i think he was trying to call).   He offered me 5 frames of brood full of bees for each nuc to supplement what i had already.
 
I told him i would accept if the frames had all three stages on them - eggs, larvae and sealed brood.  he tried to tell me that what he had was mostly sealed brood, and that would be good enough, but when the conversation ended it was clearly known what I was expecting :)

The good news is I went into the hives tonight and found that i did in fact have a laying queen in each (didn't see either of them, but found eggs and larvae in various stages.   so there is hope.   I will get the frames tomorrow morning and add them to the hives.   

Sucks that i need to take another three hours out of my day (assuming it doesn't take very long to load the frames and bees), but if it ends this fiasco, it may be worth it.   I am eagerly awaiting to see what gems of frames and drawn comb i receive this time  :o

In honor of Lazy to calm my nerves I am currently enjoying some coca-cola and sailor jerry. heavy on the latter  ;D
Title: Re: WHOOO HOOO!
Post by: iddee on May 20, 2014, 10:27:10 pm
Did you discuss what you were going to transport them in?
Title: Re: WHOOO HOOO!
Post by: Zweefer on May 20, 2014, 10:44:23 pm
I will be bringing my nuc boxes back and we will load them in that.
Title: Re: WHOOO HOOO!
Post by: LazyBkpr on May 20, 2014, 11:11:44 pm
Good!
   The frames , if they have even mildly decent drawn comb will be a big boost along with the bees on them. Did you discuss the combine?
Title: Re: WHOOO HOOO!
Post by: Jen on May 20, 2014, 11:20:24 pm
I Am On The Edge Of My Chair!  So proud of you Zweef !!
Title: Re: WHOOO HOOO!
Post by: Zweefer on May 20, 2014, 11:30:18 pm
... Did you discuss the combine?

No.  I will have to do that here, as I was advised not to disturb my hive any more than I already have (been in it too much since installing them, and will have to go back in again tomorrow!) I will remove the frames that are the worst (that one with white foundation and not much else comes to mind) and put these in...  unless I'm missing something?

Plus, I'm not sure I'd even be willing to listen to any advice this particular individual has to offer...


Title: Re: WHOOO HOOO!
Post by: Zweefer on May 20, 2014, 11:45:53 pm
As I sit here and think, it occurs to me I might have a different issue to contend with...   with the addition of five frames of brood and bees, making in theory eight-ish that leaves two-ish frames of drawn combs in each of my deeps- wouldn't that be about the time to add my second deep?   How do i know when this is to happen if I am artificially accelerating the frames being used, and the others are as weak as they are?   

as an aside - I hope the other first time beeks are having a better go than me thus far - and that Cpn is rewarded for all his hard work with pristine packages!
Title: Re: WHOOO HOOO!
Post by: Jen on May 21, 2014, 12:03:31 am
Good question!

Title: Re: WHOOO HOOO!
Post by: Zweefer on May 21, 2014, 12:19:05 am
have had time to sit and upload some photos my kid took during tonight's inspection for the queen or proof there of.  I didn't find her majesty in either hive, so I thought it would be a fun exercise if I posted all the photos taken to see if anyone else can see them - some of the pictures are a bit blurry - I apologize.  Need to teach that boy how to use my camera a bit better i think.

Sorry to those who use the mobile method - this may take a bit to load.   For ease of discussion I'll label each photo below it...

Right Hive (#1) :


(https://worldwidebeekeeping.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fs29.postimg.cc%2Fuw6x2d983%2F1_1.jpg&hash=3e9ef1f976b1e2187d695a5e45c13896) (http://postimg.cc/image/uw6x2d983/)
1-1

(https://worldwidebeekeeping.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fs27.postimg.cc%2Fkjtcoivjj%2F1_2.jpg&hash=05bbbc2e13c12d5b758f30cee2d3c101) (http://postimg.cc/image/kjtcoivjj/)
1-2

(https://worldwidebeekeeping.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fs30.postimg.cc%2Fazerywhql%2F1_3.jpg&hash=43a93b4a276df4f9f5a59682ef327a70) (http://postimg.cc/image/azerywhql/)
1-3

(https://worldwidebeekeeping.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fs3.postimg.cc%2F4y9sl63y7%2F1_4.jpg&hash=e972a62b153b2aec027fb959f63b9175) (http://postimg.cc/image/4y9sl63y7/)
1-4

(https://worldwidebeekeeping.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fs30.postimg.cc%2Fr1lwj16tp%2F1_5.jpg&hash=36dd01d41c9d0ef6029f97cbaa837140) (http://postimg.cc/image/r1lwj16tp/)
1-5

(https://worldwidebeekeeping.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fs11.postimg.cc%2F7ofhuqln3%2F1_6.jpg&hash=a6019cad09374a88e8c8f904452a1d99) (http://postimg.cc/image/7ofhuqln3/)
1-6

(https://worldwidebeekeeping.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fs15.postimg.cc%2Fskfkb0r3r%2F1_7.jpg&hash=7839cd1e584d3ef2cf93f91aa9b657fd) (http://postimg.cc/image/skfkb0r3r/)
1-7

(https://worldwidebeekeeping.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fs23.postimg.cc%2Figdfi2vp3%2F1_8.jpg&hash=7ebe45779c538a21a6041e12ef475b45) (http://postimg.cc/image/igdfi2vp3/)
1-8

(https://worldwidebeekeeping.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fs14.postimg.cc%2F4dqjd3xyl%2F1_9.jpg&hash=c22f3e2911a8d58e2c62273b1ec6f132) (http://postimg.cc/image/4dqjd3xyl/)
1-9

(https://worldwidebeekeeping.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fs4.postimg.cc%2Fsfyntd2ah%2F1_10.jpg&hash=87eaa9be48fd11d061e39c41c062c147) (http://postimg.cc/image/sfyntd2ah/)
1-10

Left Hive (#2) :


(https://worldwidebeekeeping.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fs30.postimg.cc%2Fb7gnk0dsd%2F2_1.jpg&hash=eb676a08ac5df1474fec19cc8893eb96) (http://postimg.cc/image/b7gnk0dsd/)
2-1 so much for the nucs coming from Texas - Kendal WI is south, but only by a little over an hour for me...

(https://worldwidebeekeeping.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fs28.postimg.cc%2Fhcqzzdb3t%2F2_2.jpg&hash=3bb99e4a7c634f29a4f6ae5a0501add2) (http://postimg.cc/image/hcqzzdb3t/)
2-2

(https://worldwidebeekeeping.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fs17.postimg.cc%2Fjlem01sqz%2F2_3.jpg&hash=ca7c8d141765008d11929d24c89902ff) (http://postimg.cc/image/jlem01sqz/)
2-3

(https://worldwidebeekeeping.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fs4.postimg.cc%2Fi8g4gyg2h%2F2_4.jpg&hash=f3c9e11158177199ae1fbf663fb5e56c) (http://postimg.cc/image/i8g4gyg2h/)
2-4

(https://worldwidebeekeeping.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fs24.postimg.cc%2Fua3o64zj5%2F2_5.jpg&hash=6b6bbc1b0d3f1daa32d9f536b63f881d) (http://postimg.cc/image/ua3o64zj5/)
2-5

(https://worldwidebeekeeping.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fs13.postimg.cc%2Fu0u2b1183%2F2_6.jpg&hash=36fede48656bdbf2b7b473e09444da5f) (http://postimg.cc/image/u0u2b1183/)
2-6

(https://worldwidebeekeeping.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fs30.postimg.cc%2F6w18mhln1%2F2_7.jpg&hash=e6aa8b5051864447ef7caa17a8f9c624) (http://postimg.cc/image/6w18mhln1/)
2-7

(https://worldwidebeekeeping.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fs18.postimg.cc%2F4zqck1a5x%2F2_8.jpg&hash=d8b069b2872345fb9a1c2014f4528bee) (http://postimg.cc/image/4zqck1a5x/)
2-8

(https://worldwidebeekeeping.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fs21.postimg.cc%2Fv18uoaajn%2F2_9.jpg&hash=35b9d9a47e724946b6544e87e5bd7ffc) (http://postimg.cc/image/v18uoaajn/)
2-9

(https://worldwidebeekeeping.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fs30.postimg.cc%2Fnu4um2kel%2F2_10.jpg&hash=843e293b53a961c432ef09eb8e43f955) (http://postimg.cc/image/nu4um2kel/)
2-10

(https://worldwidebeekeeping.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fs7.postimg.cc%2Fqogfrzyyf%2F2_11.jpg&hash=31b856ebfde769dfc53f3015cfbb992b) (http://postimg.cc/image/qogfrzyyf/)
2-11

(https://worldwidebeekeeping.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fs1.postimg.cc%2Fqec9bj9zv%2F2_13.jpg&hash=c6ad688e579ddbc7c34490bfb34ef595) (http://postimg.cc/image/s1u32jhsx/)
2-12

(https://worldwidebeekeeping.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fs24.postimg.cc%2Fs1u32jhsx%2F2_12.jpg&hash=e4edd9c52899d609ceaed0aa8f6a8540) (http://postimg.cc/image/qec9bj9zv/)
2-13
Title: Re: WHOOO HOOO!
Post by: Jen on May 21, 2014, 12:25:17 am
Very first pic 1-1, in the middle and to the right just a bit, it looks like the bees are surrounding something, they do that with queens. Just an observation so far ~
Title: Re: WHOOO HOOO!
Post by: Jen on May 21, 2014, 12:34:54 am
Second pic down #1-2, left edge 2/3 way down, in about two inches, I think that may be a queen.
Title: Re: WHOOO HOOO!
Post by: Zweefer on May 21, 2014, 12:36:34 am
I think you may be right!
Title: Re: WHOOO HOOO!
Post by: Jen on May 21, 2014, 12:50:06 am
On which one Zweef?
Title: Re: WHOOO HOOO!
Post by: Zweefer on May 21, 2014, 12:59:21 am
1-2
Title: Re: WHOOO HOOO!
Post by: Jen on May 21, 2014, 01:27:59 am
Okay, I've done my best, I think #1-2 has a queen in there. Anybody else find a queen for Zweefer?
Title: Re: WHOOO HOOO!
Post by: pistolpete on May 21, 2014, 02:20:34 am
Jen is right on the queen spotting.

After seeing all your frames, I'd say you're not in dire straights.  When you kind of mentally add up all the brood and bees, you get 2 frames of bees and brood in each Nuc.   That's enough to have them continue to build.  The main problem is that there are not enough bees to cover all the brood and some may get chilled. 

 The guy was right: frames of capped brood are preferable to frames with open brood or mixed brood.   Capped brood requires no further resources from the hive (other than heat).  Capped brood will soon emerge and give you the nurse bees you need.    Actually just an extra pound of bees for each Nuc would give them the boost they need.    I would not throw out any of those frames.  At this stage an old frame or a partially drawn frame is still better than foundation.  cycle out the frames you don't like early next spring when the bees are all in the top box.

I would highly recommend that you keep your cool and just take what the supplier gives you.  Seems like he's willing to give you 2 more Nucs (without queens) for free.  Don't get picky with what the frames look like and what's on them.  Really you just need more bees.

The time to add a second box is when 8 of the 10 frames in the first one are full of bees.    Too much room can get them de-moralised. 
Title: Re: WHOOO HOOO!
Post by: blueblood on May 21, 2014, 06:08:24 am
Yeap, my eyes were drawn to it immediately.  Darker, larger, less hairy thorax.  Larger abdomen. Good job Jen!  She looks very similar to the queen I found in my trapped bees this week with the black tip: http://postimg.cc/image/ywe4qv1b3/ 

Z, I have found it helpful to spot the queen by movement versus appearance.  Appearance is a secondary identification for me.  She will be boot scootin and most often diving under worker bees or passing over a frame edge to the other side like Darth Vader (couldn't resist  8)).  If I think she is using other bees for cover, I gently blow on them and watch her scatter.  Another helpful hint is to block the sun with your back momentarily until you spot her.  Queenie doesn't dig the sun light and will dart away faster as I have noticed.
Title: Re: WHOOO HOOO!
Post by: tbonekel on May 21, 2014, 07:27:16 am
Great jobs on the queen spotting! I have one question about the foundation though. In some of the pictures, those things are really white (2-2). Is that how they come? Any foundation that I have bought is yellow from the wax coating. When I have had frames that the bees really have trouble building on, they are white just like yours. It takes them forever to finally draw them out. I know there is discussion from another thread about bees moving wax to use elsewhere and that they don't tend to do it, but in my case, when I put in yellow foundation and it turns white, that tells me the bees don't like it.
Title: Re: WHOOO HOOO!
Post by: Zweefer on May 21, 2014, 07:37:59 am
That is how my honey / pollen frame came :(   I couldn't tell you if it was originally white or yellow... I'm going to be ditching it in about 4 hours anyways :)
Title: Re: WHOOO HOOO!
Post by: Zweefer on May 21, 2014, 12:56:37 pm
For those of you may have the pleasure of dealing with the wonderful Dale Wolf of Wolf Honey Farms in Baldwin WI, this is what you can expect - keep in mind I had his personal assurance that he had inspected these and they were full of brood and full of bees. He even took the liberty of capping the supplemental nuc for me so they wouldn't all get out! How nice is that? You can bet I will be getting my money back, as well as making sure no one I know will ever do business with this dealer again.
Look at the great supplemental frames i was given...

(https://worldwidebeekeeping.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.tapatalk.com%2Fd%2F14%2F05%2F22%2Fanasure3.jpg&hash=c7ca2516fb83bf9146a589b40050ff4c)(https://worldwidebeekeeping.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.tapatalk.com%2Fd%2F14%2F05%2F22%2Febe7yjej.jpg&hash=ee69dc2e79cdff2d1a69ba163a9a440c)(https://worldwidebeekeeping.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.tapatalk.com%2Fd%2F14%2F05%2F22%2Fja4uryta.jpg&hash=773706966f4b3dffd282f43ccbcfe1aa)(https://worldwidebeekeeping.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.tapatalk.com%2Fd%2F14%2F05%2F22%2F5evy7u7e.jpg&hash=f43e95f543ca2b4c26516d288db50da4)


Title: Re: WHOOO HOOO!
Post by: Zweefer on May 21, 2014, 12:58:37 pm
In fact, I am making this a separate post in case Admins wish to delete but if you are so inclined as to help me personally thank him for the wonderful customer service he has given me and probably every other person who ordered from him his phone number is 715–684–2095 or you can email him at dwhoney@baldwin-telecom.net


Title: Re: WHOOO HOOO!
Post by: Jen on May 21, 2014, 01:13:30 pm
What a sorry story these frames are! Shame shame shame!

Zweefer- I really liked what Pete had to say, I too felt like there was hope, and I still feel that way. Stay close to this forum, we will help get your bees thru!

And I don't see any problem with naming the culprits who are at fault! You were the chosen tool to bust them! Bravo!
Title: Re: WHOOO HOOO!
Post by: riverbee on May 21, 2014, 02:43:39 pm
" Seems like he's willing to give you 2 more Nucs (without queens) for free.'

guess i wouldn't be charging anyone for my dishonesty or any misrepresentation either.......
especially since zweefer is the beek primarily affected both financially and otherwise, and two long distance trips to baldwin and back.
zweefer, i suspect that what you received this 2nd time around were rejects that were brought back by other beeks?

like jen said, we can help you get your bees squared away! ;)
Title: Re: WHOOO HOOO!
Post by: CpnObvious on May 21, 2014, 03:26:10 pm
I feel for ya, Zweef.  I won't necessarily be much informational support, but I'll help you through empathy and moral support.  On the bright side, you got your bees, some partially drawn frames, and a great support team here.  I know you'll do just fine.

If all else fails, I can send you a 2x3 (2x4s are too hard to swing, or so I've, uhhhmmm, heard) with a bunch of nails sticking through one end and you can make his sorry for what he's put you through.
Title: Re: WHOOO HOOO!
Post by: Jen on May 21, 2014, 03:28:31 pm
I think the effort of putting him out of business would be sufficient ~
Title: Re: WHOOO HOOO!
Post by: CpnObvious on May 21, 2014, 03:31:45 pm
Oh.
Title: Re: WHOOO HOOO!
Post by: riverbee on May 21, 2014, 06:39:42 pm
i think like scott and iddee have said.....diplomacy, being firm and keeping your cool is a good thing when business deals go badly, and not bend down to their level of not being on the same planet as the rest of us.  in spite of what zweefer has been through, the experience will serve to developing skills as a beekeeper, a little sooner for the situation at hand, and also helping another beek out sometime down the road. not what anyone really wants right off the start line, but it happens, and we can support him.  the internet is powerful, and also word spread through the local clubs and other beeks.  my experience has been that it is rather difficult to put someone out of business unless you are prepared to do it and spend hours/months or a year or two or three of your time doing so, and i have.  it doesn't happen overnight.
sometimes it's best just to move on.

credit to you zweefer, keeping your cool, and trying to work this out with him.  he failed. you didn't. you are a better person than he is. 

congratulations, you are officially a beekeeper now zweefer....... :D
guess we need to dig out a gold star.......?
dunno, can't find one right now in my photobucket acct.....wait, i think that's perrys department........ :D
but how's this, couldn't find a gold hive tool, but it works.......
.... :D

(https://worldwidebeekeeping.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1056.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Ft373%2Friverbee1%2FGold%2520Hive%2520Tool%2F152-E_hive_tool_zpscb7febea.jpg&hash=80cecec532075a7c2dbdf3b969677850)
Title: Re: WHOOO HOOO!
Post by: tbonekel on May 21, 2014, 07:10:50 pm
I remember when my hive tool looked like that.
Title: Re: WHOOO HOOO!
Post by: Zweefer on May 21, 2014, 07:51:52 pm
thanks guys.   I'll keep you posted...    So far, I have yet to hear a return call from Mr. Wolf [in sheep's clothing] as i did call and ask for a call back ASAP to have him explain how this happened after he personally inspected them?!?!

Can't call the credit card company until later, as my wife has the card and will not be home until late.

Title: Re: WHOOO HOOO!
Post by: pistolpete on May 21, 2014, 08:43:42 pm
So did you get 10 frames that looked similar to the last pictures you posted?  I'm not saying you didn't get shafted, the guy did not deliver as promised.  But also you should understand that drawn frames are like gold to a fledgling colony.  They will help them get going a lot faster than they otherwise would.  Don't turn your nose up at even partially drawn frames.
Title: Re: WHOOO HOOO!
Post by: riverbee on May 21, 2014, 09:27:34 pm
"drawn frames are like gold to a fledgling colony.  They will help them get going a lot faster than they otherwise would.  Don't turn your nose up at even partially drawn frames."

yes, and very true. and you pay for it in one way or another.  drawn comb is gold to the beekeeper and the bees.  beekeepers don't like to cycle comb out, so what's in the comb?  comb and frames from a commercial operation....california, texas, to wisconsin, where else has it been? and what is in it?......some of this comb is old and dark and has seen better days.  the bees have most likely been treated for mites on this comb umpteen times.....but like i said, what else is in it? 
partially drawn frames?  would anyone here make and sell nucs with partially drawn comb?  this is not the 'standard' in the industry......

healthy comb, healthy bees. 5 frame nucs; all drawn comb, ready to go. 3 frames bees, brood, 2 frames honey, pollen......nothing less, and in my humble opinion, don't accept anything less, UNLESS, you are apprised of what you are getting HONESTLY.



Title: Re: WHOOO HOOO!
Post by: LazyBkpr on May 21, 2014, 09:49:05 pm
Mrs. River is right..
   Sometimes it is hard for me to think in the correct format..  I would sift through those combs to find the best of the lot and get the bees started using them, but almost as soon as they had better comb being built I would start cycling them out..   A waste of time and effort for the bees AND for the price of a nuc...   Having resources from other hives would have those bees in business in a short time. NOT having the extra resources means a struggle and slow build from what he was provided, and that is pursuant to there being NO problems along the way.
   Imagine someone NOT a part of a good forum who knew no better because they were just starting out...     >:(
Title: Re: WHOOO HOOO!
Post by: Zweefer on May 21, 2014, 10:07:25 pm
I don't mean to sound short, (my nerves have had a long day) so forgive me if this comes off the wrong way - please keep in mind I have invested over $250 for the privilege of getting these nucs and this "gold".  It's not like I caught a swarm and am trying to get it up to snuff.  they should already be up to snuff!

I just received a call from Mr. Wolf (8:45 PM) who told me he was going to give my number to his supplier in Sparta.   
I told him fine (I am curious to hear from them, know who they are, and see what they have to say anyway), but was curious how this happened when he told me that he had inspected them?   He then backpedaled and said he saw them shaking bees in the boxes and loading them on the trucks and looked fine then... 

I then told him it wasn't my place to tell him how to run a business, but if his name is on it, and I'm giving him the money for these nucs, wouldn't he be the one ultimately responsible for the product?  Especially after the "mistake" the first time?!?!?!?   I told him I would be expecting money back, and he told me he was going to call his supplier [passing the buck]  and call me back.

It's really too bad that he took so long to call back.  I just finished this :


(https://worldwidebeekeeping.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fs25.postimg.cc%2Fqzb7n6hqz%2FBB_complaint.jpg&hash=6e36b071f5d17c4d23e8d7ed145f61d0) (http://postimg.cc/image/qzb7n6hqz/)

thoughts on what to say or ask to the next level of incompetence [Sparta supplier] (I don't want to call it crookedness outright) if they happen to call?
Title: Re: WHOOO HOOO!
Post by: Jen on May 21, 2014, 10:15:04 pm
How About "Take Your Job And Shove It"
Title: Re: WHOOO HOOO!
Post by: iddee on May 21, 2014, 10:25:11 pm
BBB is a step, but I would still refute the charge with the credit card company.
Title: Re: WHOOO HOOO!
Post by: Zweefer on May 21, 2014, 10:28:27 pm
he just called back and told me he couldn't get a hold of the supplier tonight.
stay tuned kids.
Title: Re: WHOOO HOOO!
Post by: Jen on May 21, 2014, 10:54:44 pm
Iddee - What is BBB?  Let me guess.... Better Bee Bureau   :D
Title: Re: WHOOO HOOO!
Post by: riverbee on May 21, 2014, 10:56:09 pm
......... :D
better business bureau jen, but sure like what you said...... :D :D :D

uh duh, maybe you knew that already..... :D
Title: Re: WHOOO HOOO!
Post by: iddee on May 21, 2014, 11:06:23 pm
Better Bee Business Bureau. I missed one B. :P
Title: Re: WHOOO HOOO!
Post by: Jen on May 21, 2014, 11:07:00 pm
 :D
Title: Re: WHOOO HOOO!
Post by: riverbee on May 21, 2014, 11:15:38 pm
"Better Bee Business Bureau. I missed one B. :P"
........ :D
oh my stars, too funny...... better bee business bureau....... :D

sorry zweefer, but like iddee, call your credit card company.....i think you have.  i would be calling it good and be done with this guy.....you have done everything you can, don't give yourself anymore stress or aggravation. let's just get you going on taking care of your bees!!! 
Title: Re: WHOOO HOOO!
Post by: Jen on May 21, 2014, 11:23:52 pm
Riv - ""let's just get you going on taking care of your bees!!!""

ROCK ON! for Bigger Badder Bees for Zweef!  ;) 8) 
Title: Re: WHOOO HOOO!
Post by: G3farms on May 22, 2014, 06:22:50 pm
I think you will be able to get these bees going in the right direction, just a little slow to start.

Put all of that drawn comb in the brood nest to get the queen laying eggs. Just need to get the numbers up.

You just learned a hard lesson on bees and am sorry it had to happen this way. But you will forever know what to look for.
Title: Re: WHOOO HOOO!
Post by: Zweefer on May 24, 2014, 10:01:55 pm
Quick update : I have reached satisfaction with the supplier (assuming next time i check my cc statement i see the credit) :)
The bees appear to be growing and getting stronger.  They are not taking much for syrup (1/8 - 1/4 of a quart per day), but i think this is probably because there is enough natural nectar out there - i have observed about 2 of every 3 lot of bees coming back with empty pollen baskets, so am assuming either nectar or water?  The others are bringing in three different types of pollen, so looks like things are going in the right direction.  going to wait a few more days before I open them back up - hate to set them back too often :)

The kids and I have found two different places they are getting water on our property.  They are having a blast tracking them to the various places they go.   I just wish the blueberry bushes in the garden were one - have yet to see a single bee there even though the flowers have been out for a few days already.

I guess the only question I have at this point is is there anything more I should be doing?  as they are bringing pollen in, should i supplement with a pollen patty?  As they are not taking the syrup is feeding still necessary?   

Thanks for all your patience and advice thus far! 
Title: Re: WHOOO HOOO!
Post by: Jen on May 24, 2014, 10:07:32 pm
Hi Zweef!  Right On!  ;D  I would keep feed on for awhile, they need all the help they can get, they still have a lot of wax pulling to do and feeding encourages that. The more wax they pull, the sooner you'll be able to find eggs.

So Happy For You!
Title: Re: WHOOO HOOO!
Post by: blueblood on May 24, 2014, 10:36:44 pm
I would skip the patties.  They should have enough around.  Besides, those things draw ants.
Title: Re: WHOOO HOOO!
Post by: pistolpete on May 24, 2014, 11:01:56 pm
I keep the feed on until they have finished drawing out the second brood box or until they refuse to take any at all.  1/4 quart/ day is about what they need, when they take more they're storing it.  As for peeking in, there is a big difference between just popping the lid for a look and going through the whole hive frame by frame.   Your first year needs to be educational too, so don't be scared to look.   I used to peek under the lid about every two days and inspect about every 10 days.    Now I peek under the lid about once a week and inspect about every 2 to 3 weeks (once a week for strong hives in swarm season).    What you're looking for is how many spaces between the frames are full of bees.   Once you have 8 frsmes full of bees you can add another box.  This should take 3 to 8 weeks depending on conditions.

This is what 5 frames of bees looks like.   When they're this size they tend to be fairly docile  and I just give them a quick mist of 1 part sugar two parts water to keep them calm during a brief look.
(https://worldwidebeekeeping.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fs12.postimg.cc%2F5sknyc9p5%2Fxbees.jpg&hash=372ec1990e690371780e1c8a271a7b5c) (http://postimg.cc/image/5sknyc9p5/)
Title: Re: WHOOO HOOO!
Post by: Jen on May 24, 2014, 11:30:23 pm
What Pete said  ;) 8)
Title: Re: WHOOO HOOO!
Post by: apisbees on May 25, 2014, 10:54:07 pm
Haven't been back in a while.
Hive # 1 is close to what you should expect in a nuc the brood areas could be a little larger and the nuc is short on bees by about 1 frame that is the cause of the smaller brood patches.
Hive # 2 Where to start! This hive is short a frame of brood and 2 frames of bees. What is the cause of this you ask? In my opinion, The brood pattern on almost every frame is terrible. Spotty, Spotty, Spotty. Either from a poorly developed, Poorly matted, or laying Diploid eggs. to me it looks like a case of the queen mating with her drones or such a confined gene pool that the eggs are being fertilized from sperm from her sons. the bees are removing the diploid workers on day 4 or 5 and the queen has to go back and relay the empty cells. If you click on frame 12 frame 13 will appear.http://postimg.cc/image/s1u32jhsx/ (http://postimg.cc/image/s1u32jhsx/) If you count across 50 cell in any row between 23 to 34 will have been relaid with replacement larva all the same age. So a little over 50% miss rate on the queen putting a healthy fertilized (not by her son) egg into the cells.
Solution, this hive needs to be requeened! What might work is to take a healthy frame of brood from hive 1 and do a break down queen cell so the raise a replacement queen. If there are no unrelated drowns in your area the replacement may suffer from the same problem of the queen you are trying to replace. Send a photo to the brood pattern to the producer if he ever contacts you, and get a replacement queen. If you did see any eggs or young brood on any of the replacement frames use them for a break down queen cell. Buy a queen from a reputable queen producer. The last suggestion would most likely give you the best results.
Just my opinion on what I am seeing in the pictures.
Great pictures, even the blurry ones it shows us what is happening in the hive and what you are looking at and trying to describe.
Title: Re: WHOOO HOOO!
Post by: riverbee on May 26, 2014, 09:05:14 pm
"I guess the only question I have at this point is is there anything more I should be doing?  as they are bringing pollen in, should i supplement with a pollen patty?  As they are not taking the syrup is feeding still necessary?" 

thanks for the update zweefer, and the update on resolution with the supplier. 
as far as your question.......relax and enjoy. no need for a pollen patty. leave the feed on a little longer for now......
looking forward to a post when you can get in there and take a lookie see at what's going on, and how the queens are doing.   ;)

apis, great analysis. scroll back a few pages to read the saga of where these bees came from and what zweefer has been dealing with. 
Title: Re: WHOOO HOOO!
Post by: Zweefer on May 26, 2014, 09:39:49 pm
thanks apis!  I appreciate the look and opinion. As riverbee indicated the chances of me getting anything from the producer are at best 0.  ???

I will be going in tomorrow to check on status since adding the latest addition.   I look forward to everyones opinion after that.  I will as always try to take some photos (my cameraman will be at school though  8))

I honestly feel like they are finally on the right track, but will see once i get to inspect the frames.
Title: Re: WHOOO HOOO!
Post by: Jen on May 26, 2014, 10:29:38 pm
Zweef- "I will as always try to take some photos (my cameraman will be at school though)"

    No excuses mister!

     You ought to see some of the postural positions I get into to take My Own pics!....  or... maybe that wouldn't be a good idea after all....   :D

 
Title: Re: WHOOO HOOO!
Post by: CpnObvious on May 26, 2014, 10:37:22 pm
After seeing how much progress mine have made drawing virgin foundation in a mere 24 hours, I'd think yours would be coming right along!  I can't wait to see pics of how much they've done!
Title: Re: WHOOO HOOO!
Post by: Zweefer on May 28, 2014, 11:15:56 pm
Okay - had a rain delay yesterday, but the weather was much more accommodating today I'll give the short version-

1st hive:

top shot
(https://worldwidebeekeeping.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fs25.postimg.cc%2Fgkf6w19p7%2FDSCF0799.jpg&hash=6b342e22031ce51c6f41de70d23f654f) (http://postimg.cc/image/gkf6w19p7/)


I was pleased with the progress of this hive.  it's brood pattern though not perfect looks to my novice eye to be doing alright compared to what i started with...
(https://worldwidebeekeeping.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fs25.postimg.cc%2Foefshfhi3%2FDSCF0800.jpg&hash=f5c845b3832bd85e5657fa5238fdcbb9) (http://postimg.cc/image/oefshfhi3/)


here is another frame of brood
(https://worldwidebeekeeping.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fs25.postimg.cc%2Fsougd0ml7%2FDSCF0802.jpg&hash=6c115533138dbd675293c0dfe43f4dfa) (http://postimg.cc/image/sougd0ml7/)


Then her majesty showed up so I could thank her in person for not having two nail biters on my hands
(https://worldwidebeekeeping.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fs25.postimg.cc%2Fln144k8d7%2FDSCF0805.jpg&hash=4680f169bc1e9c6a8c2ca756f850a253) (http://postimg.cc/image/ln144k8d7/)


and as it was my first time finding her, and she is royalty after all, I turned into the paparazzi
(https://worldwidebeekeeping.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fs25.postimg.cc%2Fqmykcidzv%2FDSCF0806.jpg&hash=252cacbe8813b69ea618a261cbf87724) (http://postimg.cc/image/qmykcidzv/)


but she tired of the limelight and sauntered off to go back to work
(https://worldwidebeekeeping.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fs25.postimg.cc%2F643o7g02j%2FDSCF0809.jpg&hash=79fd2d9c5753ef200e641252ce8f8f3d) (http://postimg.cc/image/643o7g02j/)

to sum up:  more bees - better brood pattern than when i received them, eggs in most empty spots, and honey and pollen stores on outside (Not shown) They are taking a fair amount of syrup.

Hive 2

top of hive - forgot to get a photo before smoking them, but hopefully you can see them between the frames and get a good idea of where they are at.
(https://worldwidebeekeeping.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fs25.postimg.cc%2Fsq4e6foez%2FDSCF0787.jpg&hash=00bd597b79dbed0c72e0ccfc38dfa203) (http://postimg.cc/image/sq4e6foez/)


I did not see her majesty in this hive, and the brood pattern continued to be extremely spotty in places (more on that later)
I did find these three gems however -none were capped.
(https://worldwidebeekeeping.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fs25.postimg.cc%2Foi9lxomzf%2FDSCF0788.jpg&hash=fa095dd8faea1f584d55552527ad98b8) (http://postimg.cc/image/oi9lxomzf/)


a closer shot
(https://worldwidebeekeeping.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fs25.postimg.cc%2Fcufk34xuj%2FDSCF0789.jpg&hash=6d51fa8874d41bf340fe8854a6d12fba) (http://postimg.cc/image/cufk34xuj/)


here is that frame of spotty brood mentioned earlier
(https://worldwidebeekeeping.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fs25.postimg.cc%2Ffd193tjkr%2FDSCF0790.jpg&hash=497eb4893107a3ea421699015ced8a60) (http://postimg.cc/image/fd193tjkr/)


the innermost did look a bit better though
(https://worldwidebeekeeping.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fs25.postimg.cc%2F4fzxf1wt7%2FDSCF0791.jpg&hash=9ed6c191ce8e51ad74dbe48c0f1594c6) (http://postimg.cc/image/4fzxf1wt7/)


and they are starting to build up some stores
(https://worldwidebeekeeping.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fs25.postimg.cc%2Fk2r6sfal7%2FDSCF0794.jpg&hash=6c9f96882a5db14a0ce00202348fa6b2) (http://postimg.cc/image/k2r6sfal7/)


apparently I took too  long with my inspection as the bees started to festoon between the frames
(https://worldwidebeekeeping.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fs25.postimg.cc%2F8hcf6yzq3%2FDSCF0797.jpg&hash=1478d7437715fac9a08a5c8cc4595350) (http://postimg.cc/image/8hcf6yzq3/)


So to sum up, it appears to have more bees than before - brood pattern still not ideal, did not find the queen, 3 supersedure cells - but did see signs of life at all stages - very few eggs though :(  They seem to barely be touching their syrup
Title: Re: WHOOO HOOO!
Post by: pistolpete on May 29, 2014, 12:02:53 am
What you are calling spotty brood is actually just an area of brood that's hatched out, with a ring of slightly younger brood around it that hasn't hatched yet, but will soon.  it's normal to see concentric rings of brood like that.  With a good queen the area in the middle would immediately be re filled with eggs.  Were there larvae inside the queen cups, or were they dry?   If the queen is indeed failing, you might want to check if you can buy a new queen locally.  It will set them back nearly a month raising a new queen.  You'll see a peak in bee numbers while the capped brood hatches out, but then with a lack of new brood coming on line the population will dwindle again.

The bees are looking good.  Hive one looks like it's at 6 to 7 frames and will need another box in about a week.   Hive two is still at about 4 frames, which is a good starting point for a Nuc this time of year.  Hopefully they'll get the queen sorted out.
Title: Re: WHOOO HOOO!
Post by: Jen on May 29, 2014, 01:19:26 am
Nice reply Pete- I learned something there  :) 

Zweef- Well from what I saw in your first pics, this is much better, doesn't look so bleek! I'm happy for you! Give the queen some time, as your bees build up she will have more direction on what to do and where.  ;D
Title: Re: WHOOO HOOO!
Post by: apisbees on May 30, 2014, 04:10:53 am
Where there eggs in the 3 supersedure cells or young larva? depending on the egg or larva development you and get a better idea of the emerging, mating, and when the queen will be back in the hive, If you decide to let the bees replace the queen. If you decide to follow Pete's advice and buy a replacement queen which will greatly improve the hive in the short term with the extra frames of brood that you received you could always take the frame with the cells and a frame from hive 1 and some bees and start a nuc as well.
Keep us informed Thanks.
Title: Re: WHOOO HOOO!
Post by: Zweefer on May 30, 2014, 12:18:03 pm
sorry apis - there were no eggs  or larvae in the cells
Title: Re: WHOOO HOOO!
Post by: apisbees on June 02, 2014, 03:32:29 am
So you found 3 queen cups. Queen cups are common in the hive and do not necessary mean that the hive is superseding of swarming. Until there is either an egg, larva, or pupa, in the cell or cup, it is not a queen cell but a queen cup.
Title: Re: WHOOO HOOO!
Post by: Zweefer on June 02, 2014, 11:45:05 pm
yup. no longer worried about them.  i'll go in tomorrow or Wed and see what we have...  hoping to add another deep then too
Title: Re: WHOOO HOOO!
Post by: Zweefer on June 15, 2014, 12:35:03 am
Finally found the queen in the weak hive during my last inspection... 
Went in to determine if she was in there, and why the hive was so far behind the other one.
My mentor was able to make it out and look with me (due to other personal issues he has been unable to assist - this was his first time seeing the hives).


(https://worldwidebeekeeping.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fs25.postimg.cc%2Frpzhdtw7v%2FTop.jpg&hash=1f808facc05e81288396b43aa5da94f2) (http://postimg.cc/image/rpzhdtw7v/)
upon opening the hive, it appeared like the bees had not increased in number at all since the last inspection


(https://worldwidebeekeeping.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fs25.postimg.cc%2Fuy3yqvihn%2FIMG_0063.jpg&hash=a13edea669233c8451fcde7111d8f63a) (http://postimg.cc/image/uy3yqvihn/)
frames 1, 9 and 10 were untouched.


(https://worldwidebeekeeping.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fs25.postimg.cc%2F664cjn1az%2Fstores_frame_7.jpg&hash=e1c2df31e1655f4f389b6598ca2f9070) (http://postimg.cc/image/664cjn1az/)
the inside of frame seven did show the beginnings of stores however.



(https://worldwidebeekeeping.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fs25.postimg.cc%2F5hvi0p2l7%2Fspotty_brood.jpg&hash=782e9bfc2e96beb258f2fafbfa879172) (http://postimg.cc/image/5hvi0p2l7/)
This was the brood pattern we found.  it became very apparent I will be needing to replace this queen ASAP.


here is her majesty :

(https://worldwidebeekeeping.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fs25.postimg.cc%2Fr945x5vtn%2FIMG_0072.jpg&hash=9e010f073d6bd1baec20b37d8dd81970) (http://postimg.cc/image/r945x5vtn/)

(https://worldwidebeekeeping.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fs25.postimg.cc%2F5b7p3dgt7%2FIMG_0073.jpg&hash=ddbd1b527cce9dfbe671bfe20e4936ee) (http://postimg.cc/image/5b7p3dgt7/)


I placed an order for a new queen through Ebert Honey Queen Bees. should ship the 17th.
Will post after she arrives and I dispatch the current one.
Title: Re: WHOOO HOOO!
Post by: apisbees on June 16, 2014, 03:06:20 am
You look in the comb and she is back laying in all the empty cells. and I bet if you looked at a fresh frame that she will have laid an egg in almost every cell. This looks to me as a very sever case of diploid drones. This is something that beekeepers should keep in mind and be on the look out for when raising their own queens or making walk away splits. This can easily happen if the area you are keeping bees and allowing the queens to mate doesn't have a diversified gene pool.
Title: Re: WHOOO HOOO!
Post by: Zweefer on June 16, 2014, 11:54:51 pm
You look in the comb and she is back laying in all the empty cells. and I bet if you looked at a fresh frame that she will have laid an egg in almost every cell. This looks to me as a very sever case of diploid drones. This is something that beekeepers should keep in mind and be on the look out for when raising their own queens or making walk away splits. This can easily happen if the area you are keeping bees and allowing the queens to mate doesn't have a diversified gene pool.

when this happens, pinch and replace is the only way to go, correct?
Title: Re: WHOOO HOOO!
Post by: LazyBkpr on June 17, 2014, 08:12:33 am
Yes. Not well mated means replacing her. I am somewhat surprised the bees have not already gotten this process under way. Usually it is better getting a mated queen. The only advantage of letting them do it is locally mated queens. Depends on your area/bee population. We have plenty of DCA's so queens seem to mate well after the end of May.
Title: Re: WHOOO HOOO!
Post by: Zweefer on June 17, 2014, 05:27:05 pm
mine should be arriving soon!
Title: Re: WHOOO HOOO!
Post by: LazyBkpr on June 17, 2014, 08:05:45 pm
Let us know how the re queening process goes!
Title: Re: WHOOO HOOO!
Post by: Zweefer on June 17, 2014, 09:25:14 pm
Will do.  In the meantime my Father's Day gift arrived from B&B this afternoon!
(https://worldwidebeekeeping.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.tapatalk.com%2Fd%2F14%2F06%2F18%2Febyju7yq.jpg&hash=9e458710724bb63f4e9a2d3ef64ca052)
It's just so shiney!
Title: Re: WHOOO HOOO!
Post by: Jen on June 17, 2014, 10:07:39 pm
Now thar's a spiffy smoker for ya!  ;D

Don't worry it won't be shiney for very long  ;)

 
Title: Re: WHOOO HOOO!
Post by: CpnObvious on June 17, 2014, 11:23:51 pm


Looks great! ... but like Jen beat me to saying...

Don't worry it won't be shiney for very long  ;)
Title: Re: WHOOO HOOO!
Post by: riverbee on June 17, 2014, 11:42:33 pm
"Don't worry it won't be shiney for very long "
............ :D

very nice zweefer! love that style of smoker, i have the 10 inch of this. it's a good smoker! but what one isn't?..... :D
when it gets all gunked up just take a propane torch to the inside of it, especially the lid and nose, and a little on the outside. right back in business, and besides, it has to look used! .......... :D

i think i might have to finally replace the bellows on mine again, it has duct tape on it......... :D
Title: Re: WHOOO HOOO!
Post by: Jen on June 18, 2014, 12:34:11 am
I love duct tape! I'll never forget the story in Readers Digest, where pilot had to land his small aircraft in a farmers field due to a loose wing. He duct taped the wing snug and tight, took off and flew the plane the rest of the way home ~ true story  :D
Title: Re: WHOOO HOOO!
Post by: Zweefer on June 28, 2014, 04:57:48 pm
This is elsewhere, but for the sake of having it all in one place:
Received the new queen from Eberts
(https://worldwidebeekeeping.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.tapatalk.com%2Fd%2F14%2F06%2F29%2Fevyqaneg.jpg&hash=62ab20557335516109c68a2817f7a95a)

Left for the weekend, and came back to find her safe and sound. 
(https://worldwidebeekeeping.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.tapatalk.com%2Fd%2F14%2F06%2F29%2Fany5ureh.jpg&hash=0bb248e268c95ee9f8652db37b4ce7d5)

(https://worldwidebeekeeping.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.tapatalk.com%2Fd%2F14%2F06%2F29%2Fe4ybupyz.jpg&hash=7afe13e0a10250849c51f3c1418e67fc)
(https://worldwidebeekeeping.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.tapatalk.com%2Fd%2F14%2F06%2F29%2Fu4utagy6.jpg&hash=10b10c25679a1ac70769399526b0e13e)

No new eggs however...
Will have to wait and see I guess :-)
Title: Re: WHOOO HOOO!
Post by: riverbee on June 28, 2014, 07:16:28 pm
thanks for the pix and update zweefer......

give her some time, (already posted on your other thread), check her in 7-10 days and see how she's doing...... ;)
Title: Re: WHOOO HOOO!
Post by: Zweefer on June 28, 2014, 11:54:11 pm
I almost forgot to report on my other hive...
Queen is still going strong!  all the frames in the second deep are drawn out, and there is a good brood pattern on the bottom half of the inner frames, with nectar being stored in the outer ones.
There were enough bees for me to put a medium super on (finally!).  unfortunately, this is where the generosity of my mentor runs out.  all i have is foundation for these, no drawn comb.  my question.  do i feed to help them draw these out, or just rely on the flow and stored nectar to be able to do the trick?

I wish I would have grabbed pictures while i was in today, but by the time i was done messing with the weak hive, i was just about out of time for my good one.  I didn't even disturb the bottom deep during this inspection, as i felt there was no good reason to do so.

I will make that my first hive in next Sunday.

Also while I am thinking about it, should I steal a frame of brood from this good hive to throw in the bad one to help kick start their road to recovery?  If so, should i take the nursery bees that are on the frame with it?

as always, thanks for letting me bounce these ideas off all y'all  :)
Title: Re: WHOOO HOOO!
Post by: Jen on June 29, 2014, 12:52:26 am
I would feed with three holes to get the wax pulled. This three hole feeding idea came from Tech, which came from Idee, which came from Scott, and now from me. We won't stear you wrong.

My theary this year for those of us that had rough starts, is to a slow feed often thru the summer. Our summer is half over so I want at least a full deeps worth of bees in each hive to help them stay warm, and pulled wax will help the hive stay warm as well.
Title: Re: WHOOO HOOO!
Post by: pistolpete on June 29, 2014, 12:58:02 am
  feeding while drawing out a super can result in some syrup in your honey.  What happens is they will start to draw out the middle frames and is the flow is strong they start to store nectar in the cells before they are even fully drawn,  once the first couple of frames are drawn out, they start to move out.     For best results, you want the hive borderline crowded before the super goes on (meaning all 20 frames in the boxes are occupied with bees but not necessarily full of stores), that way they rush up there and draw it out fast.

One strong hive with 50 000 bees will produce more honey than 2 hives with 30 000 bees each.   So unless your second hive is really weak, I'd leave the weaker hive build up at their own pace and leave the strong hive strong.   I don't really know how weak your second hive is.   You want them to be strong enough to build up to 2 boxes by September.

If you decidet to help out your weaker hive, then give them a frame of capped brood and all the bees on that frame.
Title: Re: WHOOO HOOO!
Post by: Jen on June 29, 2014, 01:04:42 am
That sounds like pretty sound advice Pete, I'm facing some of the same dilema's as Zweef ~
Title: Re: WHOOO HOOO!
Post by: Zweefer on June 29, 2014, 01:26:20 am
They should get to two deeps by sept.  I hope...
Title: Re: WHOOO HOOO!
Post by: LazyBkpr on June 29, 2014, 09:07:19 am


  How much reserve do they have Zweef?   When you inspect, do they have nectar/honey stored around the brood combs? DO they have a frame, or a few with some nectar/honey being stored? Usually on the outside edges of the brood chamber. If they are storing nectar, feeding may not be necessary, but they can go through stores pretty quick if the nectar flow dies.
   I do feed when I add a new brood box or super that has undrawn foundation. As Mrs. Jen mentioned.. three holes, so they get it a bit slower.  You will know if they need that syrup or not by now.
   Newer hives and swarms tend to suck the syrup down FAST! and put it wherever they can find an empty spot..  Established hives will often (not always) stop taking the syrup, or use it very slowly if there is a good flow.  You just need to pay attention to what they have.  If you put on syrup, they take it, but stuff it all in cells it isnt helping you. Make note of what they have, feed, and next inspection see where it all went IF they took it.  Usually if they are getting crowded like Pete said, they will draw the wax for more room.
Title: Re: WHOOO HOOO!
Post by: riverbee on June 30, 2014, 12:37:46 am
"Queen is still going strong!  all the frames in the second deep are drawn out, and there is a good brood pattern on the bottom half of the inner frames, with nectar being stored in the outer ones.
There were enough bees for me to put a medium super on (finally!).  unfortunately, this is where the generosity of my mentor runs out.  all i have is foundation for these, no drawn comb.  my question.  do i feed to help them draw these out, or just rely on the flow and stored nectar to be able to do the trick?"


zweef, feed them, do not rely on the flow to draw these frames, (it's not that great right now near me) and the frames will be drawn quicker.  some timing and watching and maybe shuffling around on these frames as they are being drawn, and pulling the feed before they begin to store any syrup.

"Also while I am thinking about it, should I steal a frame of brood from this good hive to throw in the bad one to help kick start their road to recovery?  If so, should i take the nursery bees that are on the frame with it?"

wait for now, my HO, check her this coming weekend, then let us know how she is doing. 
Title: Re: WHOOO HOOO!
Post by: Jen on June 30, 2014, 01:00:23 am
Scott- "Newer hives and swarms tend to suck the syrup down FAST! and put it wherever they can find an empty spot..  Established hives will often (not always) stop taking the syrup, or use it very slowly if there is a good flow.  You just need to pay attention to what they have.  If you put on syrup, they take it, but stuff it all in cells it isnt helping you.

    Yah, all my hives are swarms so I've been going thru the syrup, still feeding three. So Scott, Mrs. River and I have had a chat about how to tell the difference between nectar and syrup. They both look clear to me.. I think  :-\ so how do we know if it's nectar or syrup in the cells?
Title: Re: WHOOO HOOO!
Post by: LazyBkpr on July 01, 2014, 09:04:21 am
If your feeding consider it syrup, though there is likely some nectar in them as well. As long as your not feeding while you have supers on the hive it really does not matter.
   Robbing can cause an issue with syrup being transsfered to supers on a different hive, and moving frames can also be problamatic if you end up with several capped frames in the brood box. I mark them with a red S on top of the frames and only use them for feed.
Title: Re: WHOOO HOOO!
Post by: riverbee on July 10, 2014, 12:20:16 pm
zweefer......

where oh where art thou?
we are patrolling the forum for all the MIA beeks...........(https://worldwidebeekeeping.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1056.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Ft373%2Friverbee1%2FEmoticons%2Fonpatrol_zpse64d8303.gif&hash=dddefb89fc04b64733a7c06b100819e6)

.............. :D
Title: Re: WHOOO HOOO!
Post by: tbonekel on July 10, 2014, 02:52:22 pm
Yeah, you need to get rid of that shininess!  It looks too good!
Title: Re: WHOOO HOOO!
Post by: Zweefer on July 13, 2014, 05:12:00 pm
New queen didn't disappoint.  Found some frames that look like this today :

(https://worldwidebeekeeping.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.tapatalk.com%2Fd%2F14%2F07%2F14%2F5yradehy.jpg&hash=14d79727a3702359ea056221aaad2beb)

(https://worldwidebeekeeping.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.tapatalk.com%2Fd%2F14%2F07%2F14%2F3ajazady.jpg&hash=a34ea4ed1e656ae041826320557a9de2)
Title: Re: WHOOO HOOO!
Post by: Zweefer on July 13, 2014, 05:16:13 pm

zweefer......

where oh where art thou?
we are patrolling the forum for all the MIA beeks...........(https://worldwidebeekeeping.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1056.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Ft373%2Friverbee1%2FEmoticons%2Fonpatrol_zpse64d8303.gif&hash=dddefb89fc04b64733a7c06b100819e6)

.............. :D

Sorry to worry or alarm.  Work has been kicking my butt lately, and as you know the weather up here hasn't been the best for inspections :-(
Title: Re: WHOOO HOOO!
Post by: Jen on July 13, 2014, 05:26:15 pm
Don't stay away for too long Zweef, I enjoy your input  :)
Title: Re: WHOOO HOOO!
Post by: tbonekel on July 13, 2014, 06:51:59 pm
That's a right nice pattern there!
Title: Re: WHOOO HOOO!
Post by: LazyBkpr on July 13, 2014, 10:06:55 pm
Hey! Thats looking better Zweef!  Glad to see your name back on the active list! Keep us informed!
Title: Re: WHOOO HOOO!
Post by: riverbee on July 13, 2014, 10:52:45 pm
NICE!!!!

looking much better!!!...........(https://worldwidebeekeeping.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1056.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Ft373%2Friverbee1%2FEmoticons%2Fegyptian_zpsfbbc3c5b.gif&hash=9e3e7b0a2119ed3447d7237c6f4e5531)

good to hear from you zweefer, and thanks for checking in and posting the pix...........yep our weather has been rather funky with all the rain.  check in when you can, sure have missed you on the forum! 
Title: Re: WHOOO HOOO!
Post by: apisbees on July 13, 2014, 10:53:52 pm
As lazy said looking so much better than the brood pattern that the old queen was leaving.
One of the best words of advice I thing we can give new beekeepers is to recognize queens with problems and getting them replaced with queens that will work for you no against you and to do it sooner rather than waiting for later to see if she turns around.
Title: Re: WHOOO HOOO!
Post by: Zweefer on July 14, 2014, 11:49:57 pm
question for the group...
There are several frames that once were brood, but are now completely filled with nectar... should i add a second deep to accomidate all this storage?  There are only 3 frames used fro brood at this point, and the outer 2 or three dont have much going on...  I'd hate to have the queen restricted when this hive has so much catching up to do...

Title: Re: WHOOO HOOO!
Post by: LazyBkpr on July 14, 2014, 11:59:30 pm
How full are your frames? Are they all drawn?

   No?  Move the honey frames to the outside and the undrawn frames in to to the edge of the brood nest...

   Yes?
   Add the second deep, move a frame of honey to the walls, move a couple frames of honey Up to the second deep. Leave room in the center to expand the brood nest..  I would put the honey frames moved up in the 2 or 3 position and the 8 or 9 position, replace the moved UP frames with new frames on the edges of the brood nest..

    That is what I would do, see what everyone else recommends before you jump!
Title: Re: WHOOO HOOO!
Post by: Jen on July 15, 2014, 12:02:16 am
Yeaaah! Zweef's back!  :D  Nice pics of a cute little boy and his dad...  :)  Looks like in pic 7 that that deep has been scorched?
Title: Re: WHOOO HOOO!
Post by: Zweefer on July 24, 2014, 11:57:24 pm
Not sure what photos you are referring to, but I did torch the deeps that were given to me just to be safe...



Title: Re: WHOOO HOOO!
Post by: Zweefer on July 25, 2014, 12:01:47 am
So I was in the hives today and I felt a bit guilty... When I lifted up the second deep, I broke apart a lot of burr comb that had larvae in it
(https://worldwidebeekeeping.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.tapatalk.com%2Fd%2F14%2F07%2F25%2Febahuryp.jpg&hash=9b42a5ee12e8e60c627a622ddef6181d)
A little tough to see here, as the bees quickly covered the carnage...

Opinion time again...
Do you leave the comb on this instance as they have honey and brood in it, or take it out?



Title: Re: WHOOO HOOO!
Post by: apisbees on July 25, 2014, 12:43:38 am
Don't worry about the carnage it was drone comb anyway. But when it does tare cells look for  mites in the cells. If you have mites in the hive you will often see them here. The bees will remove the larva and clean up the honey and if you remove the comb the bees will just fill it back in with more comb. So I just leave it smoke the bees down before replacing the super on top.
Title: Re: WHOOO HOOO!
Post by: Zweefer on July 25, 2014, 12:54:40 am
thanks Apis.  i did scrape it down this time. but will most likely leave it in the future, as they will only draw it back out again...
Title: Re: WHOOO HOOO!
Post by: LazyBkpr on July 25, 2014, 08:35:06 am
If you choose to leave the comb, be aware that when you reassemble that you will crush bees, or at least trap them there between the pieces..  Just another worry if your queen is anywhere nearby while you put things back together..
Title: Re: WHOOO HOOO!
Post by: efmesch on July 25, 2014, 08:55:25 am
My general practice is to remove burr comb when I come across it.  Several reasons for this:
1. Burr comb makes working the hive messy and diffficult.  Lifting the combs is slow and sticky,
2. The wax can be used for melting down and recycled for any other uses you have for it.
3. The bees themselves get stuck in it if it's been broken and filled with honey.
I'm sure I could muster up a few more reasons but, basically, I find it annoying when there is comb where it shouldn't be.  I like a "clean" frame to work with and for the bees to live on.  It makes rearranging the frames (when necessary) much easier.
The presence of burr comb is often (not always) an indication that your equipment isn't spaced correctly and you have violated the rules of "the bee space".
Title: Re: WHOOO HOOO!
Post by: Zweefer on July 25, 2014, 09:18:36 am
this is going from one box to the other (top of frames to bottom of frames above it) - should i trim the medium supers down so the space between frames is less then?
Title: Re: WHOOO HOOO!
Post by: efmesch on July 25, 2014, 09:39:51 am
I wouldn't trim the frames if they are of the standard sizes and made professionally.  Sometimes the burr comb is a result of not enough space in the hive and for lack of a better choice, they use the inter-super ares to relieve their instinct to build under the pressures of a heavy nectar flow.  Sometimes, they "just have to build" [nectar coming in, large population of young bees] and without frames to build they build between them.
Just scrape off the comb and there is a good chance that the burr comb will not be re-built, especially if you have attended to the basic issue of available building and storage space. 
Remember too that the intensity of a flow changes over time and the pressures that pushed the bees to build "last week" might  no longer exist.
Title: Re: WHOOO HOOO!
Post by: Zweefer on July 28, 2014, 10:42:52 pm
thanks ef!
Title: Re: WHOOO HOOO!
Post by: Zweefer on August 01, 2014, 10:20:20 am
Went in yesterday to check on how the new super is being drawn out. Just pulled one frame. And found this.
(https://worldwidebeekeeping.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.tapatalk.com%2Fd%2F14%2F08%2F01%2Faju4u6er.jpg&hash=fbc992d5bc66b289de363c03d0858725)
And next to it this
(https://worldwidebeekeeping.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.tapatalk.com%2Fd%2F14%2F08%2F01%2Favaju7up.jpg&hash=a090d1bace44b41228eb4fa2f875a841)
I may actually get some honey this year!

My other hive (the requeened one) is still laying a wonderful brood pattern and has filled about 6 frames of their second deep.  I believe they will be ready for winter. 
I did find one frame they were just getting to where the foundation has been partially destroyed, and is coming out.. As I do not currently have any more deep foundation, would you replace this with a foundationless frame, or let it be? or possibly try or readjust to nine frame deep?
Which brings up a question a bit off topic, but i am a curious sort of guy, so...
Is it acceptable to have multiple numbered frames together (10 frame on bottom deep 9 on top of that etc.)?

(https://worldwidebeekeeping.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.tapatalk.com%2Fd%2F14%2F08%2F01%2Fahytumyg.jpg&hash=83a7323a3f5a02c42d0351d74796cd47)
(https://worldwidebeekeeping.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.tapatalk.com%2Fd%2F14%2F08%2F01%2Fetahuzu5.jpg&hash=a0767e529c4a36453b5e71286cfc059d)
(https://worldwidebeekeeping.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.tapatalk.com%2Fd%2F14%2F08%2F01%2Fahebype3.jpg&hash=4585badad2185537cfd0a8857e48e2cf)
(https://worldwidebeekeeping.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.tapatalk.com%2Fd%2F14%2F08%2F01%2Fybudurej.jpg&hash=d4a3c86c91a0993542afe09ecab075b9)
(https://worldwidebeekeeping.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.tapatalk.com%2Fd%2F14%2F08%2F01%2Fnu9une3a.jpg&hash=229e88b974eea209e0676fdaee935b97)
(https://worldwidebeekeeping.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.tapatalk.com%2Fd%2F14%2F08%2F01%2Fybybyzu2.jpg&hash=f2cf730e1f8d6c8bebae10c4fc45edd7)

as i said, they are just starting to get to it - looked like comb was being drawn on a spot on the one side bowing out.   I cant put it back straight, as it is too far gone now...
Title: Re: WHOOO HOOO!
Post by: Garden Hive on August 01, 2014, 10:49:10 am
Hey Zweefer,
Nice to see them storing the honey in the new super. The other frame is not ruined. It is just fine, either put it to the outside or move it between two that have been fully drawn. They will repair and fill the vacant areas.

ALWAYS....fill any box with the frames that fit...If they are just foundation.

Once they are fully drawn, then you can space out using 1 less. This allows for a deeper cell for honey storage and easier uncapping for some. No problem with different numbers mixed.
There is however no need to do this in a brood box.
Title: Re: WHOOO HOOO!
Post by: efmesch on August 02, 2014, 03:51:07 pm
I'm in full agreement with Garden HIve.  Only one small additional comment--you could reverse the direction  of the frame with the damaged foundation.  This might place the damaged area between two frames more completely built (180 degree twist).  Placed in an area with a larger population of bees, they are more likely to build the missing section.
Title: Re: WHOOO HOOO!
Post by: apisbees on August 03, 2014, 07:00:33 am
On the frame with warped foundation open the holes in the end bars and use a couple of strands fishing line to hold the comb in alinement.
Title: Re: WHOOO HOOO!
Post by: Zweefer on August 03, 2014, 10:39:32 am
any particular type / test?
Title: Re: WHOOO HOOO!
Post by: iddee on August 03, 2014, 10:56:01 am
What I have seen mentioned most is 20 LB. test nylon. I think any 10 LB. or better, or even frame wire would do fine.
Title: Re: WHOOO HOOO!
Post by: Zweefer on August 03, 2014, 11:01:10 am
thanks iddee! 
I actually have some 15 lb test that might do the trick without having to go to the store  8)
well give it a shot.
Title: Re: WHOOO HOOO!
Post by: iddee on August 03, 2014, 11:33:49 am
It should be fine. If in doubt, double it and put a twist in it.
Title: Re: WHOOO HOOO!
Post by: apisbees on August 03, 2014, 03:08:17 pm
Some of the finer lines I have heard reports of the bees chewing and nipping them off like the rubber bands used to hold comb in frames during cutouts.
Title: Re: WHOOO HOOO!
Post by: Zweefer on August 08, 2014, 08:42:59 pm
Inspection today.  Hive 1 : honey super frames 4-8 are looking good

(https://worldwidebeekeeping.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.tapatalk.com%2Fd%2F14%2F08%2F09%2F7evumamu.jpg&hash=926607f1905755eb3cae7101df049f28)

(https://worldwidebeekeeping.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.tapatalk.com%2Fd%2F14%2F08%2F09%2Ftu4e4ymy.jpg&hash=4fb9f023d8b68a06d7a3f81e2762294b)

Frame 3
(https://worldwidebeekeeping.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.tapatalk.com%2Fd%2F14%2F08%2F09%2F5eqytedu.jpg&hash=fca231682cdf86b9a0e74a7c636144b1)

Frames 1 and ten are starting to be drawn out... Frames 2 and 9 are drawn, but nothing
capped.


Hive 2 :

Almost all frames are drawn. Only one without anything started yet, and of course the white one in the 1 slot looks like this:

(https://worldwidebeekeeping.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.tapatalk.com%2Fd%2F14%2F08%2F09%2F5a4esuba.jpg&hash=9886b594a0bccec0edf41a5b544db039)
Capped honey on one side... Then the other side
(https://worldwidebeekeeping.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.tapatalk.com%2Fd%2F14%2F08%2F09%2Feva5y5a8.jpg&hash=6acbb1d3691e07eb88513e253480e356)

Ten slot is solid honey
(https://worldwidebeekeeping.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.tapatalk.com%2Fd%2F14%2F08%2F09%2Fabymeteb.jpg&hash=d261e1adb612c52022be4f52ddfeda17)

Middle is good brood pattern
(https://worldwidebeekeeping.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.tapatalk.com%2Fd%2F14%2F08%2F09%2Fjujypudu.jpg&hash=15c1afc1f86b34e8fc8c148dcece59e1)

The bottom super looked like there was a lot of open brood areas?  I didn't take every frame out, as I just wanted to inspect the top to check on how they were drawing out the new frames in the top deep.  I hope the flow stays on, and next week I think I'll be able to add a honey super to this one as well!

So question time.  When do we add the second honey super? 
I only have 4 available at this point (wasn't expecting honey my first year) and can borrow if needed, but would rather not.  That being said. Place one on top (only foundation) or extract and place the drawn one back?

Title: Re: WHOOO HOOO!
Post by: iddee on August 08, 2014, 08:48:45 pm
Only extract if you will still leave enough for winter. Don't depend on future collections to carry them through. They may not materialize.
Title: Re: WHOOO HOOO!
Post by: Zweefer on August 08, 2014, 10:43:16 pm
Calling Riverbee!  What is traditionally left in our area?
Title: Re: WHOOO HOOO!
Post by: apisbees on August 09, 2014, 06:59:24 am
The frames with the white plastic foundation has had the wax coating striped off and salvaged by the bees and so they are going to be reluctant to draw these areas out unless you make them more attractive to the bees melt down some of your wax scrapings you have been collecting so you have a small block of wax. have it with you when doing hive inspections and when you see areas that the bees have stripped the wax rub the wax bar over these areas to encourage the bees to draw it out. it might take a couple of times and a good honey flow but it will get the bees drawing the comb on this frame again.
Title: Re: WHOOO HOOO!
Post by: Zweefer on August 09, 2014, 04:42:14 pm
Will give it a try... 
Was just out this morning and noticed a ton if movement in front of the hive on the ground.  Upon closer inspection , noticed that almost all of the bees on the ground moving around were drones.  Any ideas on that one? Should I be concerned or looking for anything more?
Title: Re: WHOOO HOOO!
Post by: barry42001 on August 09, 2014, 06:46:55 pm
They will fix the damaged foundation, just in all probability drone cells, this presumes a decent nectar flow. Move that frame in the middle of the brood chamber, they will draw it out in short order.
Title: Re: WHOOO HOOO!
Post by: riverbee on August 10, 2014, 12:39:29 am
"Calling Riverbee!  What is traditionally left in our area? "

asters......zweef what we have in the river valley here this year some bee balm left, bull thistle, many types of asters, like coreopis, coneflowers, etc.... and goldenrod coming up.  i also have row crops of soybeans that have not yet bloomed and a number of other non native species.

your beeswax foundation was chewed and re-purposed as well as the waxed plastic foundation....the bees stripped it for use elsewhere.  the bees can and will fix this......on the waxed plastic, hmmm apis said recoat it, which i would agree with, but not certain they would this late in the season.  i had several frames earlier in the season stripped totally of wax, did not recoat, and the bees drew it out.  this late in the season, i really think it might get ignored whether coated or not unless we have a phenomenal goldenrod bloom.  but don't quote me on this..... :D  bees seem to really make me look foolish quite frequently....... :D

it is late in the season to be placing supers on.....i would refer to what iddee said:
"Only extract if you will still leave enough for winter. Don't depend on future collections to carry them through. They may not materialize."

what you can do is remove full frames and place empty ones in, if they are drawn frames this time of the year much better.  if you place a super on now, the chances are in favor of having drawn frames of nothing but nectar, undrawn frames are a real crapshoot and may or may not be very partially drawn and filled (not capped) and the top of your inner cover will most likely be a mess, or the bottoms of your frames........ :D

i guess what i am saying is, i wouldn't be placing a whole lot of foundation in at this time of the year........ ;) if you need to take some frames out to give room for the aster/goldenrod bloom, drawn foundation at this time of the season is best. either way, drawn or undrawn, even if it's nectar they pack away with either, you can feed these frames back to them later on.

as far as the drones in front of the hive.......not sure? were they being drug out and not allowed back in the hive?

hope i made sense?
Title: WHOOO HOOO!
Post by: Zweefer on August 10, 2014, 01:05:05 am
You did sound a bit contradictive don't give foundation only, then if you give them foundation they will possibly draw and store nectar- it's late though so I'll re read in the AM....

I was asking more or less what should be left for honey stores for bees in our area for winter...

As for the drones. I did not see them be ejected, just crawling around on the grass, 2-4 feet in front of the hive.  Not a ton of them,  maybe 20ish? Enough to get my attention...
Title: Re: WHOOO HOOO!
Post by: Jen on August 10, 2014, 02:10:23 am
Hey Zweef, I've noticed about the last month that the girls have been reeking havoc with the drones. I stand there and watch those poor boys and want to rescue them... sigh... but I know they have to go  :sad:
Title: Re: WHOOO HOOO!
Post by: riverbee on August 10, 2014, 02:44:52 am
sorry if i sounded contradictory........you would be hard pressed to get bees to draw any substantial foundation this time of year.

"I was asking more or less what should be left for honey stores for bees in our area for winter..."

a full deep. for extra insurance i would put a shim on so that i could place winter feed in there at some point if need be, or place it on top before extreme weather hits, like fondant or winter patties.  if i remember, you have carnis?
Title: Re: WHOOO HOOO!
Post by: Zweefer on August 10, 2014, 09:40:36 am
Yes, carnis. Full deep plus what they have in the brood chambers, or enough total to equal a full deep?  Sorry for being a bit obtuse - I've done all this work to revive the hives and don't want to be responsible for their demise over their first winter...  I do plan on putting fondant on over the inner cover regardless. I figure it can't hurt. 
Title: Re: WHOOO HOOO!
Post by: Jen on August 10, 2014, 09:47:18 am
Hi Zweef, I believe I'll be doing the same thing, smokey air and drought didn't make for booming hives this year  :sad: