Bees won't move

[vossejongk]

Well. I have a simplex hive. Currently the bees are absolutely packed in the upper chamber. They have a honey super with queen excluder, and an extra chamber below with 10 frames of foundation. Yet they stay where they are and use only that chamber. I'm really confused,  they don't draw queen cells, some play cups but do nothing with them. They don't use the honey super nether... While it was the same one they used last year. 2 Days ago I put 2 empty frames of worker comb on position 4 and 6 and put a frame filled with brood in all stages from the higher chamber on position 5. Hopefully that'll lure them down. Any ideas why they stay in 1 chamber?

[Jen]

Hi Vosse- I had the same situation with my second swarm. The first day we put them into their hive, I put as many drawn frames in that I could find, which wasn't very much, and I pulled a 5x5 square of brood and rubberbanded it into an empty frame. It wasn't very enticing bait for the swarm I'll tell ya that. But it was all I could muster.

For three day the mound on the bottom of the lid just wouldn't move. On the fourth day, I suited up and was going to use a spatula and gently scrape them off of the under lid and make them fall to the frames. Guess What!! I lifted the lid and they had moved down on the fourth night. They must have heard me coming ~ give them some more time.

How many days have they been in the upper chamber?

[vossejongk]

Thanks for your light on this matter Jen. The bees wintered on 2 brood chambers but only occupied 1, when I got them the swarm wasn't really big and 1 chamber was enough but I wanted to be sure. Now since the pollen started coming in the bees have exploded in numbers (gotta love carnica bees) but stayed where they are. So they've been in the upper until now.

[Jen]

I would ask if it's a good time of year, and a good practice to switch the hives, by putting the bottom hive on the top. I haven't done this yet so I don't have the experience to tell you so.

I do believe tho Vosse that that is one of the reasons why my mother hive swarmed, is because they were stuffed and over brooded in the upper deep.

Get Ready For A Swarm Vosse 

[vossejongk]

Hmm.. maybe a good idea to put their bottom on top. I'll wait a bit how it goes now and if it still doesn't work I'll swap em

[Jen]

This is my motto now... I fuss and fuss and then I ask myself "Would it hurt anything?" if the answers no... then what the H E double hockey sticks and go for it. 

[LazyBkpr]

Sounds like a good candidate for reversing to me.
   You have the excluder on.. are the frames in the super drawn frames?

   If they are NOT drawn, take the excluder off and let them start drawing them. Once they are well under way then you can put the excluder back on.   A hole in the super or an upper entrance will also help them access it without going through the excluder.

   If they ARE drawn, take the excluder off and let them access the super for a few days then put the excluder back on.. as above, a hole or upper entrance lets them work the super more easily once they get started.


   I would not remove the excluder if the frames are drawn, and the bees have not moved down. If you do so the queens natural inclination is to move UP with her brood chamber. She will move down with it once the nectar starts to fill the upper areas, but I assume since you are using an excluder you do not want brood in the honey super.

[vossejongk]

Yeah its drawn comb, they build and filled the entire super in barely a month last year and that assumption is correct if they didn't move down by the end of this week I'll try reversing.

[Jen]

Cool! I got one right! ~ 

[blueblood]

I think they will move when they are ready.  Bees know better what they are doing than we. 

[vossejongk]

Tell that to Jen lol!

[riverbee]

vosse,
is the super above them full or empty?
is there a flow on?
is this a hive you are going to divide?

also, where are you located?

[vossejongk]

Hi, the super only has drawn comb,  but no nectar/honey. There's enough flow as they build comb on top of the frames and to the sides of that and it's stuffed with honey.  And yeah I was planning to split it my location is in the eastern part of the Netherlands ^^

[riverbee]

okay thanks vosse. was thinking along the lines of what lazy posted earlier.  bees will move down, but it doesn't hurt to reverse. the bees will fill the super when they need it, but, whether you reverse or not, the bees need to fill out the deep with the drawn foundation, before filling up a super.  i would remove the super, until that deep has brood, bees, honey and pollen in it, and then put it back on when it looks like they need it.  if you are going to divide the hive, i would remove it anyway. 

[vossejongk]

Well moving frames around seemed to work, taking half the brood nest and putting it right below the other brood nest, honey/pollen frames on the sides with frames with foundation between those convinced them the lower deep was suitable hive material as well. They still refuse to use the honey super though :/

[iddee]

They will not draw new comb until there is a flow and they need the room

[tecumseh]

unlike some I use a lot of excluders.... however when it comes to adding a box of foundation to any hive of any size I DO NOT add an excluder until I get enough activity in the box of foundation with at least several frames at the beginning stages of being drawn into comb before I will add an excluder.  generally baiting a box of foundation with at least one or two frame of drawn comb will also get them to moving across the excluder and working on the foundation.