Package Bees Dead after 10 days...

[riverbee]

don, were the bees installed on foundation only?

if they were, given your temperatures, this might explain the loss.  the bees are clustered and too few bees to break cluster to move to a syrup feeder.

[Riverrat]

It sounds like starvation either from no feed, not keeping constant feed or as riverbee suggested unable to break  cluster to move to feeder. I have had bees I had feeders on almost starve to death right next to a hive that was booming.  Come to find out the hive that was starving was taking twice as much feed as the other hives and didn't know they was emptying the syrup before I refilled.

[DonMcJr]

Here's more info of anything different they did...

" I kept my hive indoors after I painted it, she kept hers outside.
We each made our own sugar syrup and I do not know how much sugar she actually used but I used a ton (8 lbs.)
It was so cold the night we got and installed our bees we didn't spray them at all but we did a little bit on the inside of the hives on the foundation.
We removed the queen cages on Saturday. That's when something happened because both hives were alive at that point.   When we took the queen cages out, there were so many dead bees on the bottom of her hive we were both shocked! I had some but not nearly as many as she had. I wonder of something happened to those boxes while they sat outside? Or if her sugar syrup was contaminated? I don't know, I just feel bad because it was less then 7 seven days"

[Riverrat]

I'm going to stick with starvation. Did she mix 1:1 if it was  weaker than 1:1 the bees may not get the nutrients they need and starve fairly quickly.

[riverbee]

"It was so cold the night we got and installed our bees we didn't spray them at all but we did a little bit on the inside of the hives on the foundation."

i think this is the key here, bees installed on nothing but foundation and in cold temps, and as rat said they starved. one kept indoors, the other with the loss outdoors. i've had beeks here start bees on foundation in cold temps and lose them in a short period of time.  i found this don:

Package Bees MAAREC
read the 2nd paragraph, i believe that this is probably true about our climates and hiving/feeding package bees:

"You should order packages in January or February to ensure timely delivery in early spring (April). If you are installing packages on drawn combs containing honey and pollen, you can do so in early April; if you are installing them on comb foundation, then you should order them to arrive in late April or early May. Beekeepers in northern areas may wish to delay shipments for a couple of weeks. Package bees could die if installed on foundation in temperatures below 57°F (14°C) because too few bees will be able to break cluster and move to syrup feeders. Bees clustered on combs of honey, on the other hand, do not have to break cluster in order to eat."

[Intheswamp]

riverbee, no bees were kept inside.  From what I read one person's woodenware was allowed to dry and air out outdoors while the other one was kept indoors to dry and air out.  The bees that died were housed in the woodenware that was allowed to dry outdoors.

I'm thinking starvation...whether from a too dilute mix of syrup or either from letting the feed run and stay empty for too long.  To survive those temperatures they would have had to have access to feed.  All the previous is, of course, in the case that no toxic substance killed them.

I'm curious, when the dead hive was discovered was there any syrup left in the feeder?

Ed

[tefer2]

So Don, anymore loss from that same group of pkg? I hope it was just our cold spring weather that got them. We have a bunch of club members that purchased bees from that first load too.
I'll hear about their progress soon.
 Most had good luck last year with pkg's from them. It's about this time frame that we start getting the queen calls. I just now have purple eyed drones.
Next load from AWS is due in tomorrow!

[riverbee]

"riverbee, no bees were kept inside.  From what I read one person's woodenware was allowed to dry and air out outdoors while the other one was kept indoors to dry and air out.  The bees that died were housed in the woodenware that was allowed to dry outdoors.
I'm thinking starvation...whether from a too dilute mix of syrup or either from letting the feed run and stay empty for too long.  To survive those temperatures they would have had to have access to feed.  All the previous is, of course, in the case that no toxic substance killed them."

yep, misread that ed. with that said i have said twice, two strikes against this hive, hived on foundation in cold temps with a syrup feeder above them. continuing cold temps, bees clustered on foundation and won't move to the syrup feeder. =starvation. different story if they were hived on drawn combs with honey in them.  if both hives were under the same circumstances, dunno why one made it and the other not. 

per don and the email he received about it and also considering his reported weather:
"It was so cold the night we got and installed our bees we didn't spray them at all but we did a little bit on the inside of the hives on the foundation.
We removed the queen cages on Saturday. That's when something happened because both hives were alive at that point.   When we took the queen cages out, there were so many dead bees on the bottom of her hive we were both shocked! ".

i utilize package bees to draw foundation in the spring, but i will not hive them here in temps below 60 d F and nightime temps at freezing, on any foundation with a syrup feeder on top for this reason.  the packages are hived on drawn combs and combs with honey in them to start.  i have seen too many beeks up here hive package bees on foundation with syrup feeders on top and yes, the bees died of starvation because they didn't break cluster to get to the syrup feeder. 

don, just my two cents, and i don't believe there was some toxic substance. in cooler weather the bees aren't flying to get into anything.

[Intheswamp]

Thanks for the response, riverbee.  It is interesting that one hive made it and the other didn't...what the difference was...we'll never know.  Your explanation of them simply clustering and not moving to the food and thus dieing makes sense. 

What would/should a new beekeeper do that has no resources, receives a package and hives it on foundation only for the weather to turn cold? 

Don, what type of feeder was used? 

I'm just trying to think what some one with no resources other than new equipment can do in the situation that these beekeepers were faced with....  A hive top feeder would make them have to break cluster wouldn't it?  Also, a baggie feeder...they'd have to break cluster for that.  In my newbie mind a jar feeder over the escape hole of an inner cover or directly over the frames would allow them to remain in the cluster as would using the mountaincamp feeding method or a sugar block.  Basically the bees need to be able to stay in cluster but reach the feed...correct?  So, would type/method of feeding make a significant difference in the bees surviving?

Maybe I'm rambling too much? 
Ed

[LazyBkpr]

Not at all Ed.
   A small space, with sugar or fondant directly over the cluster.
   
   IE;
   A follower board that could reduce the ten frame box to six frames. Install the bees in this space, put sugar or fondant directly over them. They "should" cluster right under the food source and not have to travel far.
   If Robo is correct, in that new hives will be more desperate for syrup, even a jar directly over the cluster might work. They do not have to "move" to get to it like they do a hive top feeder, an entrance feeder, or even a baggie where they have to climb up on top of it.

[Intheswamp]

Thanks Lazy.  It sounds like early packages in cool climates might benefit from "contact feeding" as insurance against sudden cold snaps isolating the bees from a distant feeder.  In other words, no barriers whatsoever between the feed and bees.  Packing them down with a follower board to guide/corral them in the proper area makes sense, too.  Thanks again!  This is my third summer and I've still got lots to learn!!!

Ed