first question: frames and foundation

[RLTS]

I have answered most of my newbee questions with the help of the search function but this question still remains UN-answered.
First, here is my plan, 2 deep brood boxes per hive using wired wax foundation and wedge top / groove bottom frames.  I will also have 3 medium suppers per hive to use when needed.  I do not plan on extracting I plan on crush and strain and cut/chunk comb my honey (all for personal use).  My list of questions:
1. Is my plan a good one for a newbee?
2. what type of foundation support do I need for my deep frames can I use support pins, bobby pins or would it be better to cross wire and if it is do I need to embed (would like to stay on the cheaper side, the less specialized equipment the better)?
3.  What frames and foundation do I use for the suppers?   I would like to be totally foundation less in the suppers but I have read that comb can not be controlled with a box of empty frames, You would at least have to alternate drawn comb and foundation less frames,  I do not see how that would be possible with the harvest method I have chosen (starting every spring with empty frames) If I go with the same wedge top groove bottom frames and thin surplus foundation (no wires in the cut comb) as I have seen mentioned on other forums wouldn't I have to buy new frames every year or is there a way to get new foundation in a used wedge top frame (I thought you nailed the wedge in)?
4. maybe I am totally off and need to go in a different direction all together.  What say ye?

I think I will start off with these questions  as my next step is to order frames and foundation and I want to be sure to get equipment that will support my hive plan and harvest style.

James

[iddee]

1..Your plan is a good one, but I would use shallow supers rather than medium for cut comb and crush & strain. 

2.. I crosswire and embed. A roller embed tool is very cheap.
http://www.dadant.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=171

3.. I would use thin surplus foundation (no wires in the cut comb) the first year. When harvesting, I cut at 45 degrees down on each side of the top bar, leaving a V shaped row or comb along the bottom of the top bar. They will draw new comb down from this V.

[Perry]

Your plan is good, but needs some tweaking. I have shallow supers for comb honey, and I also have thin (edible) foundation for them. It is difficult to get even that size foundation to stay upright and straight, never mind a medium.
If you are set on using mediums, I would suggest starting off by using wax coated plastic foundation, and as they start to draw it out, remove every other frame and insert a foundation-less one. Simply scrape off the comb on the plastic frames and add it to your harvest.

[Riverrat]

All of the above.  I can add that the reason for using shallows is the bees have a better chance of filling these out complete than with larger boxes.  I would make sure the hive has a top entrance when doing the cut comb.  You will get a brighter white capping from less travel stains

[Perry]

A great point by Rat. When you are going the comb honey route, you want to do it on really strong hives. The idea being that you want that comb drawn, filled, and capped as quickly as possible so as to retain the nice white appearance.
Richard Taylor has a great book out on the topic. I love it.

[LazyBkpr]

Good advice already.

     Starting out, I think your plan is excellent!   But I would "plan" to upgrade in the future and at least get a small extractor.
    Your bees will have to re draw their foundation for storing honey every time using crush and strain..   Most years, that will work.. but marginal years, they will be hard pressed to re draw the foundation, AND store extra honey..   Several times in the last few years I have had hives draw out their new supers wonderfully, but they were unable to store very much in them, while the hives with previously drawn supers capped enough for me to extract..   It takes quite a bit of energy to draw that comb.

   Wedge frames;
   I have quite a lot of them. It is not very difficult to pop the wedges out and re use them.  In the event I break a wedge I can often STILL re use it..  If necessary I can quite easily cut a new wedge on the table saw, but it is not often necessary.
   I also use a brad gun with 3/4" brads to put the wedges in.. If using standard hand installed brads it will be even easier for you to pop the wedges out and re use them.  I have a video planned to add to my site about rebuilding used frames..   It is basically just cleaning them up and putting new foundation back in.. seems, sounds basic and simple to me, but I do often get questions exactly like yours..   Many things will seem very simple to you AFTER you have done them, its the thinking about them that makes them seem hard!

    Keep the excellent questions coming!

[tbonekel]

I like the foundationless way and that's the way I have gone for the most part. However, I still use foundation in certain areas of the hive. I think it gives them a little direction when they need it. I never went with the wire method. I had read it's too hard to mess with so I didn't try it mainly because I'm too lazy. I think if your hives are level, you shouldn't need it.  I also use wedge top frames. I cut down some regular plastic foundation to about 1" wide, then wedge it at the top and use it as a starter strip. As they draw it out, placing empty frames in between to help keep it straight. So far, it's worked well for me, but I consider myself still a newbie. I have been raising bees for about 1 1/2 years and still have a lot to learn. I suggest keeping an open mind and try different things. You will find out what works best for you.

[tbonekel]

    Your bees will have to re draw their foundation for storing honey every time using crush and strain..   Most years, that will work.. but marginal years, they will be hard pressed to re draw the foundation, AND store extra honey..   

I agree with that. Foundationless is probably not the best method for the largest supply of honey and it does take the bees longer to make the comb, then fill it. It's good that you are starting with more than one hive. One may make that comb like crazy, the other may struggle. You just never know.

[brooksbeefarm]

I agree with all of the above except i don't put stinky plastic in my hives .I use shallow supers for comb honey, i like to cut 2in. strips from the wireless thin foundation and wedge it into the frames. I then melt bees wax (cappings) and spoon it down both sides of the wedged foundation to hold it tight and straight in the frame, so far they have drawn all 10 frames straight down (no cross comb) maybe i've just been lucky? Jack

[pistolpete]

Cut comb honey is an awesome product, as pure and unprocessed as picking an apple off the tree.  Crush and strain, on the other hand, is a terribly messy and wasteful process.  I know it can be hard to come up with money for an extractor, but often one can be borrowed or rented from a local bee club.

I would suggest you give them a full super with foundation to start with.  When they have drawn that out, split the drawn frames into two supers, alternating drawn and foundationless frames.

[RLTS]

thanks for all of the replies I will keep all in mind when deciding what to order. I will also try to find a copy of that book and take a look.

Thanks
James

[Riverrat]

Just out of curiosity.  You are from east Texas.  How far are you from Paris Texas.  Dadant has a store in Paris.  If you are close it would save you some cash on shipping

[tbonekel]

Just out of curiosity.  You are from east Texas.  How far are you from Paris Texas.  Dadant has a store in Paris.  If you are close it would save you some cash on shipping

Yeah, that! I have shopped there many times and they are very helpful.

[RLTS]

about 3 hr trip to Paris.  A little longer than a afternoon drive.

[LindsayBrower1]

I skimmed through a bunch of the reading but the thing that stuck out to me quickly was that you'd like to harvest cut comb honey. It is beautiful BUT as a beginner I have found that drawn comb is invaluable ( in my case anyways) If there was one thing I ever needed and couldn't buy, this was it! I don;t know what your goals are but I wanted to expand my apiary and as a beginner I had limited resources. A good example I have is swarms... drawn comb is great for luring bees into your trap and gives a queen( if mated) an opportunity to begin laying right away... Or if you are about to capture a swarm by hand... throw a frame or two of drawn comb in there and the bees almost cant resist! Once that queen starts laying, its pretty much a sealed deal.. you've gained your apiary another hive.. for free  my favorite! Maybe for the first few years you focus on establishing your hives and letting them use their own resources ... building comb requires a lot of the bees energy and resources. I believe it takes about 5 lbs. of honey to make 1 lb. of wax

[riverbee]

I skimmed through a bunch of the reading but the thing that stuck out to me quickly was that you'd like to harvest cut comb honey. It is beautiful BUT as a beginner I have found that drawn comb is invaluable ( in my case anyways) If there was one thing I ever needed and couldn't buy, this was it! I don;t know what your goals are but I wanted to expand my apiary and as a beginner I had limited resources. A good example I have is swarms... drawn comb is great for luring bees into your trap and gives a queen( if mated) an opportunity to begin laying right away... Or if you are about to capture a swarm by hand... throw a frame or two of drawn comb in there and the bees almost cant resist! Once that queen starts laying, its pretty much a sealed deal.. you've gained your apiary another hive.. for free my favorite! Maybe for the first few years you focus on establishing your hives and letting them use their own resources ... building comb requires a lot of the bees energy and resources.

awesome post lindsay, and very, very true!............
ps love your avatar!

[LindsayBrower1]

Thanks riverbee!
To add to my previous post, on a more practical level... say you don't foresee yourself dealing with swarm situations ( its inevitable) I was put in a situation this summer where we had a heavy flow and my hives started to get honey bound. Queens were scrambling for places to lay...I was hoping they would work on drawing out some frames I gave them but they had other plans... I had to get drawn comb from my mentor to place in the brood chamber and hope they wouldn't swarm on me. 
I would also like to say that at some point you will be dealing with swarm situations... Watching half of your hive fly off into a tree will leave you standing there, scratching your head... I can almost guarantee you'd do anything to get "your" bees back and you'll think of this conversation