Queens disappearing ?

[brooksbeefarm]

Several club members last meeting talking about there hives coming up queenless for know apparent reason? I had several last year and a few this year where the hive was strong with brood and bringing in stores when last checked, then the next check they had no fresh brood and was back filling.(queenless and dying). My first thought was the queen had shut down and would start up again later, only to have them become a laying worker hive. I expect to have a few mystery queen losses, but ( had 92 hives last yr. 84 hives now) like my club members it seems like it's happening more often. Any of you seeing this? I would think if the queen died suddenly, got mashed, ect. there would be queen cells or supersede cells, but none to be found? Jack

[LazyBkpr]

I have had three of the queens that were laying quite well vanish unexpectedly. They all three caught me by surprise..  Having seen they were laying very well I stopped doing deep inspections. I checked if they needed room and added as necessary..  then saw them stop building, so investigated to find No eggs or brood and the last of the capped brood emerging..  No queen cells either...
   The first two I assumed something bad happened. I rolled them, injured them etc.. But that confused me because the bees did not attempt to replace them. The last one I KNOW was alive and well the last time I saw her and closed up the hive...  I cannot add to what happened to them, I only know they are gone.

[Yankee11]

I had this happen a lot last year but not so much this year.

[tecumseh]

I have heard some bee club member here tell me the same story.  and yes I have seen some of that myself although like Lazybkpr I have no idea of the real cause.

[Woody Roberts]

Are you saying they didn't build supersedure / emergency cells? We had seven hives supersede this year in a very short time span but they all superseded.
All but one was laying like gangbusters when they got their eviction notice. One thing they had in common. They all overwintered in a single deep and superseded when they filled two boxes. Three boxes usually by this time with some brood moved up but really only 20 frames of bees. I believe their QMP fell too low for the area they were in.

But I think your talking about something different here.

[LazyBkpr]

I had three packages supersede right off the bat, and I was perfectly fine with that...  Its the vanishing where the bees do not draw emergency cells that has me baffled.  Almost as if the queen fails, but they do not realize it for several days so they cannot make a new queen...

[brooksbeefarm]

Woody, like Lazy said above. I just bought 5 queens a week ago, i checked last Friday to see if they had been released? I found 3 of them, one i couldn't find but know she was there because of the way the bees acted, the other one was being supersede and not found? she was lively and all her attendants were alive when i introduced her, but that is more or less expected or accepted these days, but for a strong hives to become queenless for no apparent reason kind of sends up a red flag. Jack

[blueblood]

I just happened to read a small study/article on a term I had not seen in keeping, "Queen Bee's Honesty."  Check it out, it is pertinent I believe to the question.
http://news.psu.edu/story/295152/2013/11/13/research/queen-bees-honesty-best-policy-reproduction-signals

[LazyBkpr]

Thanks Blue!

[Woody Roberts]

Blue
I agree with that study. Before I got bees I never saw bees in the yard on the white clover. Rarely anyway. There was a bee tree about 1/2 mile from me. Two of the early queens I raised are still alive and doing well. I believe that it's because all the drones they encountered were not kin to them.

Queens raised from these queens had to go farther afield to find suitable partners and as a result are usually superseded before their a year old.

I'm hoping since I started the outyard thing I can get some new blood. I'm also going to follow Jacks cue and buy a few queens each year for genetic diversity.

I had ten queens mated during the rainy weather. Most have been killed already but the ones that are still laying have lots of holes in the brood.
I took a frame of eggs from one and put in another hive a week or so ago. The frame was laid solid, an egg in every cell available. I checked it yesterday and probably 60% is capped. The rest are empty.

I believe this is a classic case of breeding with drones that are too close of kin.
I expect all of these queens to fail shortly, I'm already working on their replacements. My plan is to take them somewhere else for mating flights and once laying bring them home.

[brooksbeefarm]

Thanks Blue, This goes along with my thinking for the last several years. When i buy queens i start them in nucs before hive introduction, my thinking (just what i think?) is the queens we buy have not proved there self enough laying to build up a strong pheromone before we get them because of mass production, not really the sellers fault. If there queen is laying, she's shipped.( time is money) I think the new queen has to get established to her new environment and feels safe with the workers around her while laying, before her pheromone gets strong  enough to satisfy the hive of her worth.Over the years i've introduced queens in there cage and the bees fall in love with her instantly ( they usually build up fast, and i have introduced queens in there cage that the workers are biting and stinging the screen of the cage, trying to kill her, and many times doing so when she's released? I think due to a weak pheromone. This is my thinking on bought queens, but 1,2 or3, year old queens that made it through the winter (or winters) and maintain a strong colony only to disappear during a flow for no apparent reason does not make sense. One thing i can't stand is a lying Queen. Jack