What Is The Purpose Of Insulating A Hive?

[Jen]

Maybe I'm not understanding the reasons for wrapping a hive. This is what I think I know: Wrapping a hive is to help keep the bees warm even tho they maintain their own heat. To keep the bees dry. To keep the wind out.

I like the idea Perry has of wrapping with tar paper so on the sunny but cold days the bees feel free to break cluster and rearrange stores as they need. Maybe I don't need a tight wrap of tar paper, maybe a loose wrap for the solar effect?



 

[Bakersdozen]

Jen, in my opinion, this is something done in certain regions, but not all over the country.  I don't know how cold it gets where you live.  Here in Kansas, we don't wrap.  It's not necessary. Wind breaks, yes
You should check with other beekeepers in your area.

[brooksbeefarm]

For all the reasons you stated Jen, and what baker12 said. There is one bad effect that can happen, like when my brother built his house, he used 1 in foam insulation on the outside, bat insulation between the studs, wrapped the inside walls and ceilings with a heavy plastic before a hung the sheet rock, then had 15 inches of insulation blown into the attic. Well when they moved in and turned the heat on he said it looked like it was raining inside his house, Condensation . I didn't see what did, but told me he had to drill holes to ventilate. Bees can take alot of cold, but not with water dripping on them (makes a bee ice cube) . Up where my buddies perry, rb, and several other forum members live the black tar paper would be a wind break and black will absorb heat when the sun shines. I'm thinking all this is taking place while perry, rb, ect. are shoveling SNOW. Jack

[LazyBkpr]

In the couple of studies I have read, the temperature inside the hive near the wall away from the cluster is nearly as cold as it is outside. The cluster is warm, not the hive. Warmth does rise from the cluster, and it will warm the top of the hive if it is insulated.
  Because tar paper is black, it absorbs heat from the sun. This extra warmth will warm the inside of the hive with that small amount of solar gain. So on a day it is 24 degrees outside with a light breeze, the sun shining on the black tar paper around the hive will warm up enough to allow the bees to break cluster and move closer to reserves. Without the black wrap, it would have remained too cold and the bees would not have been able to move. The black wrap is to provide solar gain, and give the bees a few extra days each winter that they can get to the reserves.


 

[Gypsi]

even a screened bottom board with a sticky board can contribute to condensation.  I didn't have time to open my hives today but I did pull my stickies out. Both my dual box hives had moisture on top of the sticky.  The single box did not, so I put its back in. I insulate the TOP of the hive only so that the moisture collects on the side and runs down. I may use foil bubble wrap as a windblock on the north side of my hives, but I never wrap. and stickies are out for now, will go back in Almost all the way when the temps drop again

[Jen]

Scott- "So on a day it is 24 degrees outside with a light breeze, the sun shining on the black tar paper around the hive will warm up enough to allow the bees to break cluster and move closer to reserves. Without the black wrap, it would have remained too cold and the bees would not have been able to move. The black wrap is to provide solar gain, and give the bees a few extra days each winter that they can get to the reserves.

     Thanks Scott and Perry, I had no idea that was what the black tar paper was for. It makes so much sense now.

Gypsi- I just pulled my sticky boards and only one of them had a small puddle in the middle, I tasted it because I was still feeding, it was sweet. The bees aren't taking much syrup anymore so I removed all three syrup jars for the year, but I leave my sticky boards in for the winter. I still check for mites all winter long.

[riverbee]

jen, what jack and scott said....

[Ray4852]

If you live in the frozen north. I winter my bees like this. All 6 hives are doing well. One hive the girls are trying to get out at 25 degrees. I guess their sick of winter already.

http://s1131.photobucket.com/user/Ray4852/media/bees/1121141121abees2.jpg.html

[Bakersdozen]

Nice pictures, Ray.  Those are serious wind breaks or does that have to do with snow control?

[Gypsi]

I didn't remove sticky boards last winter Jen.  And in spring I had moldy dead bees on the sticky, and I think a little bit of chalk brood.  figuring out how to have the stickies MOST of the way in but allow some ventilation down there.

[pistolpete]

In your area all that you really need is 2" styrofoam on top of your inner cover.  This will keep water from freezing on the inside of the cover and dripping on the bees when it thaws.

[Ray4852]

Nice pictures, Ray.  Those are serious wind breaks or does that have to do with snow control?

wind

[Jen]

Pete- So the difference between black tar paper and styrofoam would be condensation under the lid that could drip on the bees. The stryofoam wouldn't cause that?... right?

[LazyBkpr]

   Tar paper over the roof would only help if the sun was shining on it on a marginal day. At night it would be as if nothing was on there at all. Tar paper has no insulation value. No R factor.
   Foam insulation over the inner cover will help any time the temperature difference is enough to cause condensation that might drip back onto the bees.

  IF your temps dont reach the point that the temperature difference between the inner cover and the warmth of the bees will cause condensation the insulation above the inner cover will make no difference, but it will still do no harm.

[pistolpete]

condensation forms wherever warm air hits a cold surface.   As much as possible, you don't want the lid to be that cold surface.   Condensation on the hive wall is OK.  Actually bees scavenge this moisture to dilute honey when it's still too cold to fly.  In my opinion wood shavings are one of the best things to insulate the top of the hive.   You put a super on top of the inner cover and add a couple of those plastic mesh pot scrubbers over the hole in the inner cover.  then put in a 4 to 6" layer of shavings in pillow cases or coffee bean bags.  The moisture travels a little ways into the shavings before condensing. 

[riverbee]

jen, i don't know that you need 2 inches of insulation under the tele cover? maybe like scott said somewhere, an inch or so? 
like jack said you can over insulate a hive.

i use an upper entrance, other's don't. i do think for me this allows extra moisture out, and on warmer days allows for the bees to take cleansing flights when the bottom is clogged with dead bees or ice/snow. i wrap, for two reasons; for any solar properties and as a windbreak. there were many years i didn't and found that my bees seemed to winter better with a wrap on.  i have tried all sorts of contraptions underneath the outer cover, even wood shavings as pete mentioned.  straw, hay, and homasote.  in my opinion homasote can be a death sentence. it soaks up extra moisture for sure, but sometimes it gets so soaked, freezes, and thaws and rains all that moisture back down on the bees. i started using two inches of the pink stuff underneath. for two reasons; i think it blocks any extra ventilation, and also heat rises from the cluster (excellent description on condensation pete), so less loss of heat; and  to maintain a warm ceiling so that moisture from respiration doesn't condense on the inner cover and fall back down on the bees as pete said. i don't think the insulation provides any great deal of 'insulation' to keep the hive/cluster warm itself.
 

[Riverrat]

I would prop the inner cover open  with 4 penny's one on each corner or a Popsicle stick at each corner to allow ventilation at the top. Put the outer cover back on. Buy a good book  pick up a bee catalog and settle in by the fire for the winter.  No Styrofoam, no tar paper, no worries.   

[Jen]

Hi rrat    I have been gnawing my way to this very decision. My hives do have an upper entrance, about an inch already. It's predicted for our hemisphere to be a long wet winter, already been raining and windy. I love rainy winters, no shoveling s___. Did enough of that in my early years.

Anyway, it did occur to me to put popsicle sticks 'under the lid'. Then I would have an entrance/exit on the inner cover, then the feeding rim with fondant, then popsicle stick on the rim of the of the feeding rim, then the lid.

Am I overthinking this? YES I AM! It's one of my best qualities 

    By the way, I have several good books to dive into here soon