What to plant??

[LazyBkpr]

It was my understanding that dandelion wasn't that nutritious for honey bees.

   Really?  Do you have a link etc?  I understood that the dandelion was the cats meow in the spring?  Michael Palmer and many others preach its golden glory to beekeepers and condemn the folks who spray them...   I'd be interested in reading anything I can...    The only thing I have heard bad is that dandelion honey isnt the best tasting?  If they really are not good for the bees then I'd have to stop buying the packets of seeds and spreading them .....  EVERYWHERE!  The fact that the leaves and roots are edible is just a bonus in the event I'm ever starving to death...     Like if my wife throws me out.....

[kingd]

 I rarely see bees on the Dandelions around here,must be better stuff available at the same time.

[brooksbeefarm]

Rob, thanks for the post. I had 6 acres dozed off last fall and will have to disc it to fill where the holes are (mostly Cedar trees). After burning the brush piles and discing i'm going to plant Buckwheat on an acre of it and broadcast Dutch,Sweet, and alsac (sp?) clovers and run a disc over it lightly on the other 4 acres. There is a tree line on all 4 sides and i will plant sunflowers on the edges of the tree lines.  The rest of the 18 acres is forest and brush, Oaks, Hickory, Sycamore, Persimmon, Sassafras, Sumac, blackberries, Gooseberries, ect. The neighboring farms are mostly forest and pasture land for cattle. I'm going to start with 10 hives on the property and go from there. I'm open and reading other ideas on your post. Thanks again. Jack

[Ray]

What I would plant:
Willow, (cat willow especially) a great early pollen source
Red Maple, a great early nectar source
Cherry trees, nectar and pollen

The best honey I ever had was Milkweed honey, if you get a chance, smell one in bloom.
They smell better than roses.

[Slowmodem]

It was my understanding that dandelion wasn't that nutritious for honey bees.

   Really?  Do you have a link etc?  I understood that the dandelion was the cats meow in the spring?

It's some of the first stuff to bloom and the bees need nectar and pollen for brood rearing early in the season.  It may not make great honey, but it makes lots of little bees.

[Rob]

it does grow like wildfire rob.  difficult thing for us, we are in a forest management program, we are supposed to eradicate all the non-native species...........
some of the non native species growing is what my bees forage on and get them through summers and winters sometimes.

we have eradicated some, but do our best to 'control' some of the more invasive species to please the county.  japanese bamboo is an example.  shhh, the county thinks we got rid of it all.........

also, we have a pipeline going through the property, all sorts of clover, the goldenrod and many other asters and plants, just grows thick....... its good forage for the bees (and other wildlife/birds).  the pipeline comes through every few years to mow that down.....it just increases the growth and the bloom. if it weren't for this strip through the land, 50 yards from the center, not sure what my bees would survive on the last few years. 

Luckily Riverbee I don't live in a forest management area. I think it would be annoying living in an area where someone is looking over your shoulder to make sure your doing what they want you to do.
I have been looking at Japanese bamboo since you mentioned it but I don't think we have it in our area unless it is the same as Japanese Knotweed which we have.
Even though most people would not want a pipeline running so close to thier property it sounds like it has been a godsend it certain ways. Cheers

[Rob]

What no one has mentioned yet: for two or three hives you really don't need to plant anything.  Sounds like you're not in an area prone to drought, or surrounded by monoculture.  Your bees will find plenty of forage within their 2 mile radius.   If you had 15 or 20 hives on your property, a few acres of good forage would make a big difference, but for now I'd urge you to spend your money and energy elsewhere.

Hey Pistol Pete, I will be starting with four hives but plan on adding every year if things go right. I am not in an area of drought or monoculture but having reclaimed this property this past summer from scrub brush and weeds I may as well start off on the right track and start growing something that will be beneficial to the bees. Cheers

...... I can see a small ocean of yellow in my future mixed with some white clover.

It was my understanding that dandelion wasn't that nutritious for honey bees.  Can't go wrong with white clover though.  Alfalfa is good as well.  How about sunflowers?   Is there an agricultural college near that you can ask this question?  Maybe papakeith has some ideas.

Now that you mention it there is an agricultural college about an hour away so I may call them and see if they have info on the matter. The closest other beekeeper to me is about 30 plus miles that I am aware of so I may contact him also. Cheers

[Rob]

Rob, thanks for the post. I had 6 acres dozed off last fall and will have to disc it to fill where the holes are (mostly Cedar trees). After burning the brush piles and discing i'm going to plant Buckwheat on an acre of it and broadcast Dutch,Sweet, and alsac (sp?) clovers and run a disc over it lightly on the other 4 acres. There is a tree line on all 4 sides and i will plant sunflowers on the edges of the tree lines.  The rest of the 18 acres is forest and brush, Oaks, Hickory, Sycamore, Persimmon, Sassafras, Sumac, blackberries, Gooseberries, ect. The neighboring farms are mostly forest and pasture land for cattle. I'm going to start with 10 hives on the property and go from there. I'm open and reading other ideas on your post. Thanks again. Jack

Hey Jack, I'm in the same boat but the better half told me that I could only have a few acres of all the acreage we cleared for my bees. The rest of it will be going for more hay for the horses. My hay bill is about 5500. a year so I was told we have to grow more of our own hay. Like you I have alot of bush in the area with multiple species so that's a good thing. Speaking of burning, I have to figure out how I am going to get these burn piles going. Six piles about eighty feet in diameter and thirty feet tall with trees. I think I need to break these down into smaller piles. Great fun.   :'( Take care.

[Rob]

What I would plant:
Willow, (cat willow especially) a great early pollen source
Red Maple, a great early nectar source
Cherry trees, nectar and pollen

The best honey I ever had was Milkweed honey, if you get a chance, smell one in bloom.
They smell better than roses.

Hey Ray, it's funny you should say that about milkweed. I spend most of my summers bush hogging the milkweed into the ground before it blooms. Now that you tell me it's the best honey you've tasted, I think I may not try so hard to beat it down. 

[brooksbeefarm]

Rob, i also have six brush piles about the same size as yours, but mine are mostly cedar and after there down 6 months or so and you put a match to them you better stand way back . By the way, i bought another chainsaw and i won't let a BUSH on the place. Jack
PS. sorry iddee i couldn't help it.

[Rob]

Well I guess when we get these fires going we should be able to see each others smoke signals. 
Most of mine is birch, poplar and other various hardwoods. Was not suppose to have anything left to burn according to the guy that I hired to clear the land but somehow the half million dollar piece of equipment that was doing the job unfortunately did not do so well with birch. Apparently birch is a very sinewy tree and it was leaving too much of a mulch bed on top of the ground. It would have taken me weeks of plowing and discing to have decent ground to sow hay on. It did wonders with all the hardwoods. Machine just drove through strand of hardwoods and left a trail of small woodchips in it's path. Easy to get rid of by discing but not so much with the birches. Lots of work ahead.  :'(

[brooksbeefarm]

I told the neighbors that burn wood to help there selves to anything in the wood piles and they have taken quite a bit and the closes neighbor said he would burn  piles for me for the logs, he said the big cedar logs won't burn complete and he would cut the root wads off and take the logs. ( He sells them to the Amish, they make furniture out of them) He is supposed to pile the root wads up and burn them, but i don't think his tractor is big enough to push alot of them. We will see. Jack

[Rob]

That's great Jack, at least you have people that will take it and make use of it. Nobody in this area wants the birch and poplar for their woodstoves. I got rid of most of the maple and cherry  :'( and it went to some friends with woodstoves and fireplaces but all that's left is lots and lots of birches. Fortunately I switched over to geo-thermal a couple of years back so I could not use the wood. Did not like the oil and gas prices anymore. Nice not to have any heating of air conditioning costs anymore. Rob

[Bakersdozen]

It was my understanding that dandelion wasnt that nutritious for honey bees.

   Really?  Do you have a link etc?  I understood that the dandelion was the cats meow in the spring?  Michael Palmer and many others preach its golden glory to beekeepers and condemn the folks who spray them...   I'd be interested in reading anything I can...    The only thing I have heard bad is that dandelion honey isnt the best tasting?  If they really are not good for the bees then I'd have to stop buying the packets of seeds and spreading them .....  EVERYWHERE!  The fact that the leaves and roots are edible is just a bonus in the event I'm ever starving to death...     Like if my wife throws me out.....

Dr. Dewey Caron writes in Honey Bee Biology and Beekeeping, "Two common yellow-flavored weeds are major pollen and nectar producers in mid-spring.  The familiar dandelion yields abundant bright yellow pollen (Interestingly, honey bees are unable to rear larvae on a diet consisting solely of dandelion pollen since it lacks an essential amino acid.  In nature, this and additional pollens are usually mixed before feeding of brood.  Dandelion is otherwise an excellent source of protein.)"  Dr. Caron goes on to talk about members of the mustard family, yellow rocket, field mustard and cresses.

http://www.honeybeesuite.com/honey-bees-cannot-survive-on-dandelions-alone/ "Indeed, honey bees flock to dandelions both in the early spring and in times of dearth when little else is in bloom. But unlike some other pollen plants, dandelions are only a mediocre food source."

And this from
http://www.beeccdcap.uga.edu/documents/caparticle10.html
2.6. Not All Pollens Are Created Equal

Different pollens have different nutritional value to honey bees. Schmidt et al. (1987) studied the nutritional value of 25 pure pollens by feeding caged bees the different pollens, using sugar as a negative control, and mixed pollen as a positive control. Consumption of test pollen diets varied dramatically among test pollens, with a mean consumption of 16.5 mg pollen per bee for the first 10 days and a range of 1.9-29.0 mg per bee. Both pollen consumption rates and crude protein levels are correlated with the ability to improve longevity. Pollens that decreased worker longevity include ragweed (Ambrosia), a rust spore (Uromyces), cattail (Typha), and Mexican poppy (Kallstroemia).  Those that slightly improved worker longevity include terpentine bush (Haplopappus), desert broom (Baccharis), and dandelion (Taraxacum). The best pollens are those from Mormon tea (Ephedra), mesquite (Prosopis), blackberry(Rubus), and cottonwood (Populus)  Mixed pollen consistently performed very well. In another study, Schmidt et al. (1995) concluded that bees foraging in sesame and sunflower fields should be supplemented with other pollen, but rapeseed (canola) pollen is highly nutritious to bees and does not need supplementing. Through these studies, Schmidt concluded that factors contributing to increased bee longevity include presence of attractants and phagostimulants, so that bees will readily consume large amounts of pollen; lack of toxic compounds; and a good nutrient balance or level. No studies have tried to correlate the amino acid profile of a pollen and its ability to improve worker longevity.

Really?  You buy dandelion seeds?

[LazyBkpr]

Interesting, thank you.. I wonder how the pollen from Dandelions stacks up when measured against pollen substitute.. 

   Yes, ten thousand dandelion seeds for something like 6 dollars.  Ordered ten packs last time. The great thing about them is that they dont take any special care. spread the seeds, they grow..  I am sure they might do better if properly bedded, but I have draws and fence rows that were QUITE yellow just spreading them by hand.

[Bakersdozen]

At the local bee club meeting, last night, we had a guest speaker come in to talk about Planting for Pollinators.  She was from a local nursery.  While she admitted, even though they have two bee colonies on the property, they were the responsibility of someone else.  Her expertise was in plants.  She had compiled a list of plants for our zone 5 location.  In general, she explained that bees are attracted to the colors yellow, orange, blue/purple and ultra violet.  Shapes they prefer are shallow, tubular, and flat.  They also like flowers that are symmetrical.  Flowers will guide bees to themselves through ultra violet light (I hope I worded that correctly)  The bees are also attracted by the sweet or minty smell of nectar.
For our area, the big 4, can't go wrong plants to plant are Borage, Goldenrod, Lemon Balm and Tanzy (invasive).
She was a great speaker and took the time to compile her own list, broken down much like you would see on someone else's web site.  She focused on season of bloom, nectar or pollen source, native, invasive, height, annual or perennial.

This doesn't help you much Rob, but it gives you some ideas on what might work in your area.   

[brooksbeefarm]

Rob, is the land that you want to plant wet natured? the Birch trees in our area grow wild in the wet swampy areas. Jack