Need advice

[hamptor]

I have a hive that used to be really strong, but started showing declining numbers coming out of winter.   I fed them sugar syrup and  gave them pollen supplement starting in March, and they had honey left over from the winter.   The queen was definitely in place but showing spotty brood.   On April 1, I found a capped supercedure cell right in the middle of the brood that was there.   So I figured she'd keep laying some eggs (this is her second year) until the new queen showed up and the Battle Royale happened.  The numbers continued declining and about 3 weeks ago, I put some extra bees in the hive using the newspaper method.  It's April 29, and I keep checking every week to see if the new queen has shown up.  The numbers just keep declining.   I'm down to a small amount of bees about the size of an orange on 2 frames of very spotty brood in the bottom super.   There's honey, pollen, nectar, and plenty of space to lay eggs.  The queen is still walking around the frames, and there's some spotty brood, a small amount of larva in scattered cells at different stages.   I can't tell if there are eggs or not.  One other thing - they've created 2 queen cells not capped in the top super in the middle of the nectar/pollen stores with no other brood around.  Weird.
My question - do I wait any longer for the supercedure queen to return, or do I purchase a new queen?   I really want to get honey this year and this hive does have a lot of nectar/pollen stored in the top super (of the 3 supers).
 

[iddee]

Even if you manage to save the hive, which I doubt, it will not make excess honey this year. I think Larry Tate has packages available. I would dispatch the queen you have and install a package into the hive with the remaining bees.

[brooksbeefarm]

Sounds like the old queen has run her course ? if you have supersedure cells in the hive i would either put the old queen in a nuc or kill her. Then put the remaining hive with the queen cells and bees in a 5 frame nuc and add a frame of brood and bees from another hive if you have one?Then wait and see what happens before buying another queen. Without new brood coming on and the small amount of bees left the hive is doomed, even if you buy a bred queen to requeen the hive, what small amount of bees that you have left will be dead and nothing let to care for the queen or her brood. If i read your post right? Jack
PS. Awww, iddee you stole my thunder, we posted the same time.

[Perry]

 Awww, iddee you stole my thunder, we posted the same time.

Awww, nice to see you two are still agreeing with one another.

PS- good advice given above.

[hamptor]

So to follow up - I called Larry Tate and no packages or nucs available. So now I've gotta go to plan B or C.   I've got a small but growing hive that I split off my strongest hive in early March.   I think I will combine the doomed hive with this hive.  That way the small/growing hive can finish capping the  honey doomed hive had started.
I watch the failing queen for quite a bit yesterday.   I saw her wander all over the frame and finally saw an egg come out.  But she didn't back into the comb to deposit it.  She let it drop near the top of the cell.  Is this normally how queens do it?  My assumption was that she would back into the comb to deposit the egg, but after seeing that, do workers place the egg in the bottom of the cell after it's deposited?       Or is this just another symptom of why she's failing?

Another  question - I've never had to kill a queen.  I don't have a queen clip.  What's the best way to do this - mash her with the hive tool?
Do queens sting?

[iddee]

Yes, she is finished. She should be placing them in the cells. Just pick her up and mash her, or drop her in a medicine bottle or similar with an ounce of alcohol and save it to use as a swarm lure. Then after 2 or more hours, combine them with the nuc.
Don't worry about being stung. Very few beeks, even commercial beeks, have ever been stung by a queen.

[Lburou]

Hamptor, do you have any idea of the mite load in that declining hive?  I suppose now that two or three hundred bees for a mite count would finish the hive, so its not feasible now.  When you examine the brood comb, do you see mite feces in the empty cells?  This is what it could look like:






You may have two things going on (a queen event and varroosis).   If you have a lot of mites in the declining hive and combine them with your other hive, those mites are along for the ride......Can you find a mentor who can come take a look and make recommendations?  :-)

[Bakersdozen]

So to follow up - I called Larry Tate and no packages or nucs available.

I don't know if you are looking for a specific type of bee, but I posted in another thread that Kelley Beekeeping still has 3# packages available.  They will ship.

[hamptor]

Lburou, I haven't done a mite count this spring, but I had a heavy mite population last fall.   I ended up doing 3 treatments of Apiguard.   I did the recommended 2 following the instructions, took a mite count - it was still too high, so I did a 3rd treatment.   then I did a sugar shake, and the numbers were in line.
I will do a mite count on them and see what it looks like.   Thanks for posting the pictures - I had no idea that's what mite feces would look like.  I don't recall seeing it but will recheck.  Beekeeping is a continual learning experience!