Bad queen or bad circumstances?

[Bakersdozen]

I created a situation and now am in the process of learning.  I would like everyone's opinion. 
The last few years, one hive in particular brought in the majority of my honey crop.  I didn't requeen on purpose.  I had hoped they would do it for me.  They didn't.  I found them queenless this early spring.  The hive was filled with old bees that had made it through the winter.  There wasn't another colony close to do a combine.
I decided if I could get a queen I would try to requeen.  They readily took to a new queen, but she wasn't laying and the numbers kept declining.  I thought she was probably smart enough to know they couldn't take care of the brood.
I installed two packages of bees next to this colony.  I thought, "What the heck, I'll tap in a few bees to her from those packages."  They didn't kill her, but still no eggs.
I took two frames of bees from a robust hive and put in there last Monday.  Surprise!  They didn't kill her.  I saw her, but I don't think she is laying yet.   At least I couldn't see eggs.  They have been cleaning house and last night I saw pollen being brought in.
I think that is a good sign.  She is quite large, if that means anything.
Early queens can be poorly bred sometimes.  I was wondering if that might be the case or if the lapse in egg laying might have been a detriment to her over all egg laying abilities or if she is just smart and is waiting for some bees to take care of the brood?

[Ray]

Interesting problem.

[LazyBkpr]

How long has it been since you installed her?
    I usually dont wait more than two weeks. the mini AXE comes out and another queen is installed...
   Laying workers can happen once all the brood is gone, so adding a little brood now and again is good. It keeps laying workers at bay, and keeps the population up so the new queen can do her thing...
   I have no idea why she is not laying..  maybe she will eventually kick in, but do you have the time and energy, as well as resources from other hives to keep waiting on her?   If you do.. Great!  If not, maybe contact the person you got her from and ask for an exchange?

[rwlaw]

I'm thinking let those two frames of brood emerge and along with some feed, see what happens. Overwintered bees make poor nurse bees, figuring that there was no initial brood rearing in January as a worse case situation.

[sc-bee]

Yes not having enough bees to cover the brood will cause here to throttle down. But you are saying no eggs or brood.... nothing. How long has it been. Sounds like a bad-un to me.

Edited:
And as far as pollen coming in, yes it is a good sign but a queenless hive will bring in pollen. Also if they are cleaning and drying cells it is another good sign, not sure if that is what you meant by housekeeping. But is she putting out just enough pheromone for the small colony for them not to supercede her although she is not laying. Some hives will just not supercede and just hang on. I agree with above two week on a supposedly bought queen should be plenty.

[brooksbeefarm]

I agree with the above info, But i have had a few queens take 3 weeks to kick in and went on to make good queens. At $25.00 a whack for queens i would give her a few more days. Jack

[sc-bee]

I agree with the above info, But i have had a few queens take 3 weeks to kick in and went on to make good queens. At $25.00 a whack for queens i would give her a few more days. Jack

Yep no problem if you have more time than money..... and that is surely my case 

[Jen]

I pulled a nuc from my hot hive a month ago, three frames of brood, original queen. Two weeks later, no eggs, so I added two full frames of just bees. By the end of the third week, queen filled out the rest of the cells, eggs everywhere.

It's hard to try and figure out a queen, but I'm inclined to give them plenty of time to figure out what they want to do, or try and figure out what we as beeks need to do.

[Lburou]

Eggs and open brood will sometimes get them to start laying. You said you added two frames, did they have eggs and open brood on them?  You could still get her laying.

A 'banked' queen can sometimes take extra time to begin laying again. 

[Jen]

Lee- "Eggs and open brood will sometimes get them to start laying. You said you added two frames, did they have eggs and open brood on them?  You could still get her laying.

      I like this idea.. 

Lee- "A 'banked' queen can sometimes take extra time to begin laying again. 

      Very true, experienced that last year with two purchased queens. One went gung ho, and the other doddled along. This year both of those queens really amped it up.

[Bakersdozen]

Here are some more facts:
3/23 I released the queen from her cage
3/30  Observed queen on frame with some bees
4/11 tapped in some bees from packages
4/13 added 2 frames of bees.  Did not have any brood or eggs, just bees.
4/16 Saw queen, no eggs.  Pollen was being brought in and removal of dead bees from hive
I will say that it has become harder to see eggs in the last couple of years.  So there is a chance that she has started to lay and I won't be able to tell for 3 days. 

[riverbee]

"I found them queenless this early spring.  The hive was filled with old bees that had made it through the winter.....  They readily took to a new queen, but she wasn't laying and the numbers kept declining.

I installed two packages of bees next to this colony.  I thought, "What the heck, I'll tap in a few bees to her from those packages."  They didn't kill her, but still no eggs.  I took two frames of bees from a robust hive and put in there last Monday.  Surprise!  They didn't kill her.  I saw her, but I don't think she is laying yet.   At least I couldn't see eggs.  They have been cleaning house and last night I saw pollen being brought in."

bakers, some good suggestions. just some additional thoughts.......is it possible that the queen wasn't laying because there was no beebread or pollen, or limited pollen in the hive? were you able to check pollen stores? did they have adequate honey stores? if not,  did you feed when you requeened? or add a pollen sub?  are you feeding now? with no pollen coming in until recently, maybe that was part of the problem, some queens won't lay if either is not present or coming into the hive.

[LazyBkpr]

some queens won't lay if either is not present or coming into the hive.


   Good point Mrs. River!

[Bakersdozen]

Those are great points, riverbee.  Yes, there was lots of honey present.  Pollen, I am not sure about, but probably not.  That's a good point about the pollen.  I have a boardman feeder on so that I can actually see how much sugar syrup they are taking in.  I have also had an entrance reducer all winter and spring.   My gut tells me that in a few days there should be some larvae to see.

I have contacted my supplier and he is more than happy to get me a new queen.  He actually called while I was typing this and has a replacement for me, if I need her.  I would like to give her a fair chance.  She has managed to survive with a crummy work force.  At this pace there isn't a chance for a enough workers to fill any supers, just survive and get though winter.  Fingers crossed. 
It's been 3 days since I last peaked in.  I should see some larvae by now.  What I find in there today will determine whether I requeen or not. 

[Bakersdozen]

Follow up:  Took a quick peek in the hive this afternoon.  This time I was armed with an LED light.  I saw little instars on two frames!  That was just what I was hoping/expecting to see.  I saw the queen again and the girls had a little bit of attitude.  It was cool, over cast and windy at the time.  Took my first sting of the season. 
Now I will leave them alone and keep the feed on.

[riverbee]

thanks for the update bakers, very cool! 

good on the syrup. it's what i would do.  just another thought, depending on your forager force, maybe give them a little pollen sub; dry/patty to help them out a little a long with the feed? 

[Lburou]

Well done!