Friend needs advice

[badgerbeekernube66]

Hey everyone.
I have a friend that got into beekeeping this year as well, and we have been comparing notes all summer.
He just got back from vacation and looked into his hive for the first time in three weeks. It consists of two deeps fully drawn now, they were 70percent when he left. What he found yesterday was one queen cell in the bottom box capped off and virtually no capped brood otherwise. The top box had some capped brood and a lot of honey.
They never saw the queen nor did they see any eggs, though he admits his eyes aren't as young as they used to be 
I had read here that first year hives rarely swarm off, but this hive was so strong before he left I can't imagine why his bottom deep wasn't full of bees when both of mine are, and my hive was the weak one comparatively just 21 days ago.
His queen was laying nice pattern, I don't believe she would have failed so quickly, but also I am a rookie.
Should we go in again today and look for the queen or signs of her?
Should we cut out the queen cell if we find her?
Any help here would be appreciated. Thanks

[pistolpete]

don't cut out queen cells until you've been at this for a few years.  It's a recipe for disaster unless you're talking about removing some queen cells from a hive that has lots of them.   Bees will swarm if they get crowded, even first year hives.  Quite likely putting on a super about three weeks ago would have helped.   

What alarms me somewhat is the lack of capped brood.  In a normal swarm situation the queen keeps laying for a  little while after the swarm cells are started, so there is capped brood for at least a week after the new queen emerges.   My best guess is that your friend rolled the queen during the last inspection and now you have an emergency Q cell, more likely a virgin or newly mated queen running around in there already.

[iddee]

What pete said, plus, You don't mention larva. A little capped brood, no visible eggs, but what about open brood?

[badgerbeekernube66]

He said there was some, but not a whole lot. We are going to look in there today for the queen, he told me they kind of rushed the inspection. Hoping for the best

[brooksbeefarm]

My self, i would leave them alone for a week and then take a look. With my luck i might damage the queen cell and end up with a queenless hive. Most of the time the bees know more about what to do than we do. Jack

[badgerbeekernube66]

Thanks for the feedback guys.....I'm kind of glad I don't have to make this decision.
I will let him read this thread and let him figure out the next move

[badgerbeekernube66]

Well, looks like she swarmed off, by the looks of it I'd say the brood nest got plugged up with pollen and nectar and the queen didn't have anywhere to lay.
We found six queen cells that were open and empty, some capped brood some larvae and a few eggs.
I'm thinking he got lucky......again thanks for the input.

[brooksbeefarm]

Six queen cells?? he must not of went through the whole hive, i read he had one queen cell to work with. Were the queen cells open on the end or on there sides? that will tell you how many made it out of there cell. Jack

[Yankee11]

They mus just be capping them if still eggs.

I wouldn't think you would be seeing eggs and swarm cells hatching at the same time.

[capt44]

Give the hive a little time.
Sounds like the queen swarmed and whats left is a virgin queen that can take 2-3 weeks to start laying.
If she survives the mating flight.
With the other capped cells keep a close eye on secondary swarms which will be small.

[badgerbeekernube66]

It looked.to me like there were  half that were open on the sides. He still had quite a few bees in the hive.
We.never saw the queen, however there were young larvae.
How far does an average swarm go?
I'm thinking that the last time he was in his hive before vacation the queen had already decided to swarm.
Only 17days past between inspections, it takes a queen 16 to emerge, right?
I have to say there is a lot more going on in the hive and in this hobby than I really thought!
Lots of variables.....I love a good challenge

[Riverrat]

16 days to emerge,  5 days later she will go on mating flights and another 5 day after that point she will start laying.  These are approximate days. 
     A swarm will  usually not gather to far from the parent hive to cluster.  once they have found a new home it could be miles away.  Its natures way of keeping the Gene pool clean.
   

[riverbee]

"We found six queen cells that were open and empty"

and jack asked if these were open at the bottoms or at the side, your reply:

"It looked.to me like there were  half that were open on the sides.
We.never saw the queen, however there were young larvae."

if the 3 were open at the sides, a rival queen chewed a hole in the side and stung the queen in the cell. if they were open at the bottom, 3 queens may have emerged, but only one will survive.  my guess is you have a virgin queen present and sometimes these are hard to find.

[CpnObvious]

I fear one of the most important issues in this thread is not being addressed:  You have a friend into beekeeping and they AREN'T a member on this forum?

Step 1:  Let's get that fixed!
Step 2:  Address the queen issues

And, for what it's worth, I've have to work with several "queen issues" this year... self inflicted issues due too (successful!) attempts at splitting.  one thing I have definitely learned, with the aid of the folks on WWBK, is to let it ride.  Let the bees work things out.  They seem to know what they're doing!

[badgerbeekernube66]

Right on capt!
I've been telling them to sign up.....cool people and to much info to pass up on.

Riverbee, that's what I was thinking. I hope to be able to get over for the weekly inspection on Saturday, I'm very interested in the goings on......also, without a big blue splotch on her she is indeed hard to find
Rookies, aye

[riverbee]

badger, virgin queens are hard to spot, they are smaller and tend to run across the frames, or across bees, or one might  find them anywhere in a box.  the one thing that is common is that her thorax will be shiny round and black, more so than a workers. her abdomen is not filled out (unmated) and there will be no retinue until she is mated.

i think robo has a great pic of a virgin queen here somewhere? will try to find and post.

be patient, and don't disturb too much.

[riverbee]

and here is robo's pic.........a great pic on this thread:

Find the Queen