Laying Workers and Re-queening Question and Techniques

[LazyBkpr]

I watched a vid of the feeding response, and it is automatic..  if the queen sticks her tongue through the wire the nurse bees WILL feed her.

[robo]

Go visit a package supplier,  they have rooms with 100s or 1000s of caged queens hanging in their "queen room"  waiting to be installed in packages.  These rooms are filled with loose bees that care for all caged queens.

Buy a large quantity of queens and they will arrive individually caged  in a battery box with nurse bees that have full roaming of the battery box to care for the queens. 

A lot of package suppliers ship queens caged without attendants.  The package bees will care for the queen,  but not the attendants,  that is why you often find dead attendants if they are included.

[blueblood]

I'm suggesting the hive is queenrite and the beekeeper is a worry wart.   

Okay, it's been a week.  Here is what I found.  Still no pollen or brood.  I am now seeing what appears to be drone cells.  I did however, find a very different bee that sure looks and moves like a queen but I did see at least one more that had the same characteristics.  Two laying workers?  Or, just a virgin queen?  The thorax seems darker and more pronounced compared to the other bees.  The abdomen is different as well.

[blueblood]

This small colony still does not have any capped brood.  All of my other colonies have more than 10 frames of capped brood.  So, clearly, this one is falling behind.  I thought it was a laying worker because all capped cells were all looking like drone.  However, now those cells are extending and looking like peanuts.  I took a video last week of piping from this hive.  On more than one occasion, I have seen what I thought was a small queen.  Is is possible for a virgin queen late last fall surviving the winter?  Is it poor mating and she never really took off as a good queen and they are making queen cells out of everything she lays?  I am confused on this colony.  I did place 2-3 queen cells in this hive a few days ago.  One cell is still closed, one is ripped open exposing the pupae. Took 8 pics of one of 3 or similar frames in this hive.  Pay close attention to pic #8 and tell me if you spot a queen.  Because, I think I did.  Would love some input on what you think or see?
 

[robo]

I would say a late fall supercedure is definitely a possibility.     I had a similar situation this spring.  The hive had nothing but bullet drone brood scattered across the frame.  I did find a queen that seemed healthy and normal looking.   But I also found an old open queen cell on the bottom of the frame.   If you are seeing single eggs in most cells,  I would bet that is what happened.   If you are seeing 5+ eggs in cells then it would be a laying worker.

Just because she is a drone layer does not mean she will be a scrawny underdeveloped queen (but doesn't rule out that she is either )

I took a quick look at the pictures and didn't see an obvious queen.  But then again I can never find Waldo either.

Since you gave them some queen cells,  I guess at this point you can only wait and see.

[blueblood]

Thanks Robo, what do you think about the bee I put an arrow on the last pic, #8?  Looks real close to a queen to me.  But, it's tough.

[robo]

I don't think so.  I think the shiny abdomen makes her stand out, but if you look through the picture there are other bees that look the same.  Another tell tale sign is too much hair on the thorax.

[riverbee]

oops sorry blue, you asked me to look at this last night while we were in the chat box.  was watching the hockey game....   i did look at it afterwards, and my eyes were drawn to the bee you diagrammed  with the arrow. 

like robo, i don't believe it's a queen #1, because of the thorax, and the legs, and as robo also said, other bees look the same if you look carefully.

[blueblood]

Thanks for looking at it robo and river.  I also noted similar bees.  But, gosh, boy is it close.  I don't have problems picking out my big ole girls but the smaller ones are tough.

[riverbee]

yeah blue, your welcome.  i love these kinds of pic challenges.  i looked at that late last night, downloaded your picture and enlarged it.  when i first looked at it, my eyes were first drawn to that bee. when i looked at her up close, it was the thorax and the leg structure.  not sure how to explain this, robo said it best i guess, the hair on the thorax....queens have more of a shiny thorax to them, like robo said, no hair, and also like i said the legs.

it is hard picking them out, but you know what, you're doing great, and looking forward to your updates on this colony and what you find.....

[LazyBkpr]

After two days of looking and about six cups of coffee.. this is the closest I could come up with that MIGHT be a queen..  I haven't been ignoring the thread, just didnt have anything to add Robo and Mrs River didnt.

   


   Zoom it in for best look at the bee, she is mostly covered up.

[apisbees]

OK Dave I will get flack for saying this but... A month ago when this hive was not responding to the weather and start of the spring season like the other hives, it should have been combined where the bees could have assessed a weaker colony.  By now these bees could have helped boost a week colony by 6 frames of brood and helped increase a colony by 8 frames of bees. But with all the time waiting to see if this queen, if there is a queen will start to lay and catch up. What you have now is a hive with very old bees that are going to be dieing off over the next 30 days that it will take them to get a queen raised, mated and laying. Them it is going to take another 3 weeks for her brood to start to emerge. So with out placing brood into this hive it will be close to 7 week before this hive will be able to produce its own brood.

[blueblood]

Your probably right Keith.  I will try to inspect this one today and see if anything has changed and then decided what to do then.  I will update later.

[brooksbeefarm]

Blue, i looked at picture #8 and was drawn to the bee that you had an arrow on in another picture. It was the pointed tail that got my attention. Jack