Frames 9 vs 10

[Mikey N.C.]

Was at a feed & seed,bee supply store. Talked owner ,beek for 11 yrs.  he said that he would lose 25 to 30% of hives every year, 3 yrs. ago he started using 9 frames in his two 10 deep brood chambers ,he explained to me that he would stagger frames in a newly added brood box , 5 frames with full foundation, 4 with 2" of foundation, and let them drawout those frames, and continued until all brood frames are naturally drown, and has had great success with little to no treatment, he attributes the success with the small cells the bees make. Was wanting to know what y'all think ?  Thanks

[Mikey N.C.]

Oh yea, and the down fall is ya can't flip frames

[Perry]

Not a particular believer in the small cell debate so not much I can say to that. I don't know what difference 9 to 10 frame would do for making bees any healthier. I am going to go 9 frame in all my honey supers this year though to make uncapping easier though.

[Mikey N.C.]

Easier to run knife in supers, he also said that having extra space, he's not rolling bees

[Mikey N.C.]

In the brood boxes

[Chip Euliss]

I use 9 in everything except when I'm drawing a full box from foundation, then I go 10.  I'm with Perry on the small cell.  I'm sure there's some benefit but I'd feel better hedging my bet on other means of mite control.

[LazyBkpr]

The bees will draw the comb where there is NOT brood out deeper, and the space left will be the same, so you dont gain very much. A little extra space over the brood comb itself, but in this climate I am told the extra space is detrimental during severe cold, making it harder for the bees to cluster, no experience with it myself as far as overwintering.
   Small cell...
   I have read a lot of pros and cons to both sides of the story. i have 5 hives on the Mann lake PF120 small cell plastic frames. i run mostly foundation less in my other hives. i have 12 hives on standard cell plastic foundation.. (and more being built) I did an either roll on each of the small cell, five of the natural cell and five of the standard cell frames picked at random.

   My mite counts as of May 1st
   PF120 average of all five hives is 8
   natural comb = 7
   Standard comb = 9

   I have done the same test before with similar results..  just looked for the inspection sheets and I have apparently lost them. The results have always told me that there was not enough difference to struggle with the changes. Like screened bottom boards. Maybe one or two mites less over the course of a year. So i dont use them.  using OAV means I am mostly free of worry and care by treating spring and fall, so to me there is just no longer a struggle.   Of course, the waynes bees I have never treated, I need to check them soon to see how they are coping up here.
   Made 30 queen cells last week, will make 30 more next week, and we will see how those genetics do mixed with the local drones!

[Ray]

A little more fuel to the fire: I run 11 frames in my brood boxes. 
1 1/4" width X 11 frames = 13 3/4"
1 3/8" width X 10 frames = 13 3/4"

 I haven't seen any advantage or disadvantage so far.

[riverbee]

mikey, i have been using 9 frames (brood deeps>2) since i started keeping bees, rather than 10 frames; unless a number of frames need to be drawn in the deeps. if only a frame or two, just place in between drawn frames........for the most part i just try to cycle to the end, frames that need replacing, unless one of them breaks or some other anomaly.   in the beginning, most of my frames were wax foundation, i switched to and started using waxed pierco foundation, but add a little wax to them anyway.  small cell? never really saw small cell or smaller cells drawing on these frames, and imho, i don't think utilizing 9 frames is any different than using 10 when it comes to mite control, but that's just my two cents..........

it is easier to work a 9 frame deep box IMHO, but again, as far as drawing smaller cells, or not having to treat, i have not seen drawing of smaller cells than the foundation provided and/or the use of 9 frames vs 10.

i use 8 frames in honey supers.......yah i get some grief over this!  if you want to see bees build natural comb for a comb honey frame, stick an empty frame or two in there.........the cells will be drone sized or larger.............