Author Topic: My disasterous beehive removal attempt  (Read 3121 times)

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omnimirage

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My disasterous beehive removal attempt
« on: May 31, 2017, 09:44:39 am »
I was asked by a family friend to remove a beehive from his property, these are some photos I took early on:

http://imgur.com/a/1iYRZ

I've never attempted to remove one so big, and I made quite a number of mistakes by doing this. I tried to put most of the comb into the bee boxs I bought. This resulted in the boxs being quite overfull, they leaked with honey and many bees died because of so. I had to put another super on top to contain all the comb, which resulted in the beehive being overly large and heavy; I dropped them, twice, and all the comb I put in there misaligned, and now I'm unable to close the beehive, as none of the frames can sit straight, nor can I seal the bottom part of the hive as it came apart with it's deattachable base.

I've learned when doing bee hive removal jobs, that I need to take a bucket to store honey comb that I find, and another bucket to store wax comb that I find; the only comb that should be going into the super is brood(except maybe a bit of sticky honeycomb on top of the hivelid).

The first night I went there, I extracted all the comb. I didn't give myself nearly enough time (got there with 2 hours of day light left) and too many aggressive bees got into my suit, so I left the bees, exposed with a nucleus with brood in it next to them. I returned the next day, they entirely ignored the nucleus. I proceed to scoop the bees with an icecream container and beebrush, taking out bits of tiles to allow me to get at the bees that were running down the sides. My beesuit zipper starts to come undone. I try duct taping it up but for some reason my ducttape sucks and won't stick well. My smoker kept going out, I might have overpacked it, then the top got stuck, may have needed to be cleaned but I could not open it, was trying for minutes, getting very frustrated, and in my stressed state I bashed the head of the smoker to try and force it to open, which caused the head to break off, making it further difficult to smoke the bees.

The bees went down into the box, I couldn't easily get at them. I was scooping at them with a brush into an ice cream container, to put them into the box. As soon as I'd start scooping, they'd go down the sides. I'd put the hive box right up next to them, and they'd pay only little interest in it. I really could not tell where the queen was, I'm guessing she was running down the sides, and is still there. I was getting quite stung, was quite stressed and had enough, so I left, leaving behind about two fist full of bees, plus whatever was scattered amongst the tiles.

It was very difficult trying to get the double super beehive into the car, which wasnt sealed, had angry bees in it, was dripping in honey, had a bunch of bees hanging off the side and my wagon door kept on wanting to shut down on it's own. I return home, and went to take the bees out, but seeing the mangled box and all the angry bees flying around it, I just couldn't see a way in which I could actually pick that thing up and carry it, without dropping it and without getting stung multiple times, so I left it. It's still in my car, I want to just forget about this stressful incindent but I need to take it out.

The people with the bees will probably contact me as I left many bees behind. I don't know what to do with them. I want to tell them to just spray them with fly spray, but I don't know if the bees would attack them if they did so; would they? I don't know if I should offer to go down there, for the third time, to spray the bees myself (I haven't got a suit but I have a veil and the smoker sort of works). I'm not sure if the bees will fly elsewhere, having had their home ripped apart like that, but I feel there's a decent chance they will stay there (and they need to be removed).

I'm not sure what to do with the mangled hive, I feel there's a decent chance she's queenless. I feel that I shouldn't leave the comb in there, and that the comb I do want to leave in there, I should strap down with rubbered bands, meaning that I'll need to take everything out, and transition all bees and comb and reconstruct a new super for them to live in. I feel I should move the beehive that's in the car at night or in the early morning/dusk.

Offline Nugget Shooter

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Re: My disasterous beehive removal attempt
« Reply #1 on: May 31, 2017, 10:15:29 am »
Wow, sounds similar to my first attempt removing a hive from under a shed, didn't go well.

I take several buckets now, 10 frame deep which is part of the vacuum, rubber bands, straps, tools, and  frames. Rubber bands are already on the frame and as I carefully cut out the comb putting honey in one bucket and extra wax/comb in a second, brood comb is put in the frames with a little honey and pollen and rubber bands slid over them to hold, but not enough to be too heavy. Once home I disassemble the vacuum and set the box on a bottom board, add inner cover with feeder bottle in place, empty medium, and lid. Makes it easy to feed them and I leave them cooped up overnight with a screened entrance.

Works well for me...

I learned much like you did and never got the queen and took countless stings, but was prepared next time and it went well as have most since. I just chalked it up as part of the learning process and I felt worse for the poor darn bees than myself  ;)
Cheers, Bill

Offline Wandering Man

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Re: My disasterous beehive removal attempt
« Reply #2 on: May 31, 2017, 03:51:08 pm »
Under the "what was your biggest mistake" thread I've listed my lack of patience.

I am constantly having to remind myself that something does not have to be done "right now!'

The bees are working with you to help correct our mistakes. 

Get a new beesuit and a new smoker, and another day's rest.  Then go remove the bees from your car, frame by frame into t a new box and place the box where you want the hive to live.

Let the bees abscond if they wish, it's not a big deal.  Your primary goal (I think) was to remove the hive.  You may have to go back and scoop up the rest of the bees to finish that job, but keeping the bees for yourself is only secondary.

After two difficult attempts as removing bees from houses I have decided that is no longer a job I want.  I first thought I was a failure when I was unable to keep the bees.  But then I realized that I had done what was asked of me: I harassed the bees so badly the first time that they absconded from the house.  I did a trap out the second time, and while the bees turned their noses up at my nuc, they left the house never to return.  In both cases, the homeowners were happy and the bees were gone.

Good luck with your beekeeping, and stay focused on doing what you enjoy about bees.
Never argue with drunks or crazy people

Offline Perry

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Re: My disasterous beehive removal attempt
« Reply #3 on: May 31, 2017, 04:13:22 pm »
Like previous posters, my first cut-out was a bit farcical. Lots of dead bees, and a lotta should-woulda-coulda moments after it was all done.
Each time you do one of these you learn from it, and I have to admit that like Wandering Man, it is not something I readily agree to anymore. I will usually try and find someone else who "really" wants the bees and hand it off to them.
Remember, you tried, and the fate of those bees had you not done so would probably have been a lot worse.
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omnimirage

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Re: My disasterous beehive removal attempt
« Reply #4 on: May 31, 2017, 08:09:27 pm »
How likely will the bees abscond at the property where I took them? I really don't want to go back there, would it be safe for them to spray any remaining bees with fly spray? Or will I need to go back there myself and spray/scoop into a box? I'm not prepared to leave a nucleus there as then I'll have to return a fourth time.

Offline Wandering Man

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Re: My disasterous beehive removal attempt
« Reply #5 on: May 31, 2017, 08:28:46 pm »
I think (and others may disagree) that if you robbed them of all their comb, most of their sisters, and their home that there is a very good chance that they will leave.

I also think it may help you to go back and see for yourself what the situation is.  Also, close up and get rid of any spaces where the bees or a new swarm could set up a new hive.
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Offline riverbee

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Re: My disasterous beehive removal attempt
« Reply #6 on: May 31, 2017, 11:06:40 pm »
"How likely will the bees abscond at the property where I took them? I really don't want to go back there, would it be safe for them to spray any remaining bees with fly spray? Or will I need to go back there myself and spray/scoop into a box? I'm not prepared to leave a nucleus there as then I'll have to return a fourth time."

omni, the remaining bees may fly off but i would guess would stay where there home was and most likely perish. no need to use 'fly spray'.  i guess i have an issue with this.  we as beeks encourage so many folks not to use anything to kill bees and encourage those in need of honey bee removals to contact us to remove them.  our mistakes are our own, but to suggest spraying them? what message would this send to the people that contacted you?  just asking?

i realize you have been through a great deal and a great learning experience. we have all been there with removing honey bees. you did the very best you could and now have that learning experience to help you in the future.

a nuc perhaps could have been left behind to gather the remaining bees. i realize going back is inconvenient..........i just have an issue with telling the homeowners to spray the remaining bees........
as inconvenient as it may be, i would go back (agree with what wm said) and i would not spray any remaining bees, whatever is left scoop them up.........that's just me.
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Re: My disasterous beehive removal attempt
« Reply #7 on: June 01, 2017, 08:20:34 am »
Oh my! Cut outs take a ton of patience, planning and time.  Too hot and uncomfortable with the suit on for that long and it to do it properly, takes hours.  I don't do them anymore.  I have subsided to watching Jp the Beeman on youtube do them and just enjoy with from my comfortable seat with a cold drink.  ;D

omnimirage

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Re: My disasterous beehive removal attempt
« Reply #8 on: June 01, 2017, 10:54:08 am »
Hey thanks for the good replies guys. I managed to get the hive out of the car before the sun came up, was difficult to get a grip, I needed to press the sticky hive against my body to bring it out. I managed to hold it and was glad, thinking I could potentially walk it the 15 steps I needed to put it out of the way... I got 2 steps in before I felt I was going to drop it, so I put it down, a bit too quicly a bunch of angry bees came out when it banged against the ground, on the sidewalk of a suburbian street. I went to go pick it up but realised I couldn't, realised I couldn't leave it where it was... so I just dragged it to closer to my house. The bees got pretty pissed by such so I ran. I only got stung twice so I consider that quite a success.

I took a photo and figured I'd share. First is the hive, notice how it's not in place, and there's honey oozing around it. The second is a nucleus that's full of comb. Since I didn't have a bucket I filled that up instead, there's some brood and bees in it. The second photo is the back of my car where the hive was sitting. Note all the honey that oozed out. So much more honey oozed out at the actual site.

http://imgur.com/a/WSuvX

I haven't received a phone call or message. I'm going to assume that the situation is dealt with and not worry about it until they message me, and if they do so I'll go back and finish the job. I'll take a box to scoop whatever bees I can, and spray to deal with the rest.

I have to have this hive moved in four days time. I can take more photos when I open it up if there's an interest.

Offline Lburou

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Re: My disasterous beehive removal attempt
« Reply #9 on: June 01, 2017, 12:15:24 pm »
Omni, sometimes you just don't know what you don't know, until you know it.  Just think...Now you are enlightened!   :laugh: :laugh:
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Re: My disasterous beehive removal attempt
« Reply #10 on: June 05, 2017, 09:33:17 am »
Sometimes learning the hard way makes it really sink in......   Although most of these you are aware of now, I'll add them here for anyone in the future that reads this post before attempting their first removal.
  • NEVER attempt to save comb with honey and mount it in frames to give back.
  • If you can't make follow up trips and need to take the bees away in one trip, a bee vac is REQUIRED.
  • If using a bee vac, NEVER suck up bees covered in honey.
  • Removals ALWAYS take longer than you plan, there are always some issues to deal with.  I would never attempt a removal without at least 4-6 hours of daylight remaining.
  • If you use a bee vac and doing the removal in one trip,  you should give yourself an extra 1/2 hour to suck up returning field bees.
     Even so, there still may be a small amount of bees remaining (less than 100 if you do it right).  They will normally die or move on to another colony within a couple days.   Without a queen or brood,  they can not reestablish a colony.   If the owners can't wait for that to happen I instruct them to spray them with dish soap and water in the evening when they cluster.

The good news is the next one will go much smoother now that you're experienced  ;)

"Opportunity is missed by most people because it comes dressed in overalls and looks like work." - Thomas Edison


Offline Wandering Man

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Re: My disasterous beehive removal attempt
« Reply #11 on: June 05, 2017, 11:55:48 pm »

The good news is the next one will go much smoother now that you're experienced  ;)

You'll also be prepared to make new mistakes to learn from.  At least that's how it goes around here.  :)

You can't give up because of one bad experience because then you quit learning.
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omnimirage

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Re: My disasterous beehive removal attempt
« Reply #12 on: June 18, 2017, 08:48:12 am »
I didn't get any word from then for a few days, but then they rung me and told me that the bees were still there. I instructed him to get a few types of poisons I've heard about from the local hardware store, and I went to the property, intending to scoop whatever bees I could into a new nuc, and then place poison around there so there's no stragglers.

The bees were there that morning when I received the phone call. By later that evening, they had buggered off, before I got there.

I ended up fixing up their hive. I essentially abandoned all the comb without brood; I've truly learned a lesson there. The comb that had brood in it, I placed it on top of the hive mat. I wasn't sure if this was best, as I've been told online to strap the comb via rubberbands, but I've done such in the past and it's worked well.

I didn't see any signs of queen, but I did see two things in the hive that looked like were a queen cocoon. I wanted to get a photo to post online, to get a verification either way or not.

omnimirage

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Re: My disasterous beehive removal attempt
« Reply #13 on: June 19, 2017, 09:04:30 pm »
I opened up the hive, as I want to see if they have a queen, or whether I'll need to find some eggs from another hive to give them. I took some photos:

https://imgur.com/a/vztJe

In photos 2-4, there's the comb that has what looks like the queen cell. There were two half a week ago, now one has a hole in it, appears that a queen hatched and released. The other one looks mangled and weird, not really sure what happened.

I pulled out some frames, to see if I could see the queen, but they got angry so I let them be. They don't appear to be touching the brood on the mat much; maybe such isn't an effective idea. Would have it been best to strap it to the frames instead with rubber bands?

They seem slow to be building. There's not many bees, or comb or much of anything. I left a nuc with a bunch of honey on the bottom next to it, thinking they could eat it, but they weren't interested so I cleaned it and put it away.

Hope they survive the winter. I've got some honey that's unfit for human consumption. I'm going to keep them at home, and if they look like they're struggling, I figure I'll dilute said honey and give them some. Just hope they have a laying queen.

Offline Riverrat

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Re: My disasterous beehive removal attempt
« Reply #14 on: June 19, 2017, 11:08:43 pm »
Be careful using poison on bees during a removal.  You may contaminate or kill a hive/honey another unsuspecting keep or wild hive that may be near by. Any kind of poison should never bee part of you removal equipment
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