OA question? Just How Does OA Kill Mites?

[Jen]

I remember LazyBkpr explaining how OA kills mites. I thought that the mites actually inhale the vapor. But Scott said that the vapor settles on the mites and bees, then the bees travel around and rub up against each other and that is part of how the mites die off. So that would mean that actual physical contact of OA on the mites is what kills them?

And, do the mites ingest the vap powder while munching on bees, and that is part of what kills them? Ingesting OA dust?

[tedh]

Going from memory here Jen so won't swear to the accuracy.  The OA is vaporized and disperses throughout the hive, then condenses/cools forming crystals.  These crystals have sharp edges which pierce the soft tissue areas on the mite.  I'm getting a little foggy here so will stop and re-read the OA thread in pests and diseases.  I wonder how close I actually came on this one. Ted

[blueblood]

Don't know but scares me to spray anything in my hives besides fresh air and smoke. 

[Jen]

Hi Blue    so what do you do to keep the mite population down? curious

Ted, I remember that now, Thanks! But isn't it interesting that the crystals don't pierce the eyes of the bees? or... maybe it does?

[CBT]

I understand it is absorbed thru their foot pads and kills them. The bees are covered with a protective coating.

[Some Day]

[LazyBkpr]

Going from memory here Jen so won't swear to the accuracy.  The OA is vaporized and disperses throughout the hive, then condenses/cools forming crystals.  These crystals have sharp edges which pierce the soft tissue areas on the mite.  I'm getting a little foggy here so will stop and re-read the OA thread in pests and diseases.  I wonder how close I actually came on this one. Ted

   This is what I have also understood from what I have read and researched. The soft tissue around the legs, mouth etc is QUITE soft and the crystals penetrate that tissue easily, while the bees do not have such soft tissue externally, and as CBT said they also have a sort of protective coating on the softer tissue they do have...
   I am still waiting myself for someone to confirm exactly what happens.

[Jen]

Well Guess What!? Here is a new facet to this question...

This exact question just came up at our last bee meeting. One of our well seasoned and respected beekeepers said "The way Oxalic Acid and Formic Acid works, is that it makes the male mites sterile, so that the mites simply die out, because they can no longer propagate. But you still have to treat 4 times to get the existing hatching cycle and the mites that will emerge with the hatching drones.

I dunno, kinda blew me out of the water hearing that..

What do you guys think?

[tedh]

Hmmmmmmm.  He may very well be right.  Since I no longer remember where I heard/read about the way OA vapors work I certainly wouldn't argue, but it's not the way I remember it.  Ted

[Jen]

Hi Ted, I wonder if it could be simply another part of the mite kill puzzle? And here is the rest of the story..

The lady, Trish, that asked this question is Buddhist. Buddhist are not allowed to kill ANYTHING. Our club was working so patiently with her about mites, and how she needs to get her hives treated with SOMETHING! So Trish was having an awful time learning beekeeping  this second year... because all her bees absconded, 4 hives. No doubt in my mind those hives were loaded with mites.

She started coming to the bee meetings, and then learned this bit of info. She breathed a big sigh of relief now knowing that simply sterilizing the male mite wasn't the same and killing mites. And is now going to study formic and OA acids and decide which treatment to use.

A nice turn of events

[LazyBkpr]

Semantics. I have to deal with the folks from maharishi international university all the time. i stopped selling them bees and they now have to go elsewhere, or get someone I don't know to buy them.  What it comes down to, she is killing the bees by not treating them, Not only killing them, but also making them suffer. Which is worse? No action = the same as action in this particular case.
  I flat out tell then that if they follow that philosophy/religion that maybe they should not consider keeping bees, because they are killing one way or another.  The best they can do is order bees that are resistant, like Waynes bees,and requeen them every three ish years.

[Jen]

But Scott, my last post said that... because the beekeeper at the bee meeting said that oxalic acid makes the male mites sterile, means that She Can treat... In that the mites will live out their lives and die, just can't make more mites. And the oa won't kill any bees either.

I don't know if you read this whole thread or not, but personally, I thought it was a win!

[tedh]

I see dead mites on the bottom board after every OA treatment.  Coincidence?  OA may sterilize mites but from what I see it also kills them outright.

I understand the "win" but "winning" based on a falsehood?  Peace on this place and on all those who come and go from here.  Ted

[Jen]

Ted and Scott ~ You two never fail to entertain me 

And I couldn't agree more! I see dead mites within 3 days on my sticky boards, and sometimes it's a thousand dead mites. Proof in the puddin' right thar!

We have several monasteries in our neck of the woods. Being respectful of peoples beliefs and keeping our bees alive and healthy... I don't see the harm in using the sterile tactic... along with the knowledge of how much oxalic acid we eat on a daily basis from the fresh foods that we bring home from the store and our gardens.

Still a win to me, that's my story and...

[Nugget Shooter]

It kills them.... this is a good read and when I use it we check the SBB and always find many dead mites and all I can find to read also states they die. http://scientificbeekeeping.com/oxalic-acid-questions-answers-and-more-questions-part-1-of-2-parts/ Not being a party pooper  but looks like it simply kills them though the exact method is not agreed upon.