Bottom Boxes Showing Up Empty

[Jen]

Some of my beek friends are confused as to why the bees are not too interested in moving down to the bottom box when there is so much room now for the queen to lay. And one beek asks why there is so much drone comb in the bottom box now.

I do explain that the days are shorter by a full hour now and the bees are starting to slowly move up.

But I don't have an answer for why the drone comb in the bottom box?

[Bakersdozen]

I am not sure about the drone comb in the bottom box.  You will often see brood comb along the bottom of the frames.
The workers will start filling the top box with honey (winter preparation) and force the queen down in to the bottom so that she has a place to lay.  This gives the colony the means to work their way up through the food stores as winter progresses.

[efmesch]

Comb built in the spring and during a honey flow tends to be made with worker-sized cells.  When built later on in the summer and when the nectar isn't pouring in, the bees tend to build drone cells.
As for a reason, I can suggest one but can't guarantee that it is the only reason.
Drone cells, being larger, use less wax per unit area.  When not much nectar is coming in, the bees produce less wax and by building larger cells they can make the same amount of storage room with less building material.  When they are producing large amounts of wax they can afford to be more liberal in their use of the wax for construction.   Another consideration is that in the spring time, the hive tends to have a larger population of young workers, and they, in their youth, tend to exude more wax, enabling the construction of the smaller, worker cells.
Using foundation with small cells can push the bees to build worker cells in circumstances when they would on their own, teend to build drone-sized cells.

[LazyBkpr]

I believe.....
   That the bees force themselves down into the bottom box, as they fill the upper boxes with honey and pollen.  If they are NOT in the bottom box by fall, it means they did not have enough resources to FILL the top boxes and push the brood chamber down.
   I have never seen the bottom boxes filled with drone comb? I have seen them make three to four frames of drone comb, even over the top of standard foundation on occasion, but usually, once they have satisfied the desire for drones they go back to worker comb.

   It has been my experience that the bees will backfill comb as brood emerges, and the queen will be forced lower and lower over the course of the summer. If I have empty boxes I will start feeding to get them to backfill and push her down further.
   Nothing is ever guranteed with bees. I have found the brood chamber dead center in the hive with honey all the way to the bottom bars in the past. But USUALLY... they will work their way down, so in cold weather they can work their way back up.

[Mikey N.C.]

Inspected 5 hives yesterday. All were10-10-10 with supers on top fully capped.  Should i take capped honey ? Before robbing?  Or let it bee , and find out who my strong bees are?

[LazyBkpr]

Reduce the entrances and or put on robbing screens so no robbing gets started? Are those the supers or is it their honey for winter?

[Mikey N.C.]

I was wondering if i should leave it for winter

[efmesch]

Your best bet is to speak to other beeks in your general neighborhood and hear what they say about how much honey should be left on the hives for the needs of winter.
That having been said, my personal feeling is that you should be able to extract honey for your own use.  North Carolina shouldn't have the demands that New York (for example) or other northern states have for winter honey stores.

[Lburou]

Jen, I have seen more empty bottom boxes than usual this fall as well.  I don't dare leave them in the hives because of the wax moth infestation in my area.  In spring, I will reverse empty bottom boxes with boxes with the brood nest.  Right now, I'm taking those empty boxes off the hives or placing them above the brood nest because we can still have a fall honey flow here, depending on rains. 

Mikey, SHB are supposed to smell a hive ten miles away.  Bees are also drawn to the smells of a hive, especially when they smell curing (read uncapped) honey.  Italians have the best sense of smell, and they are the worst robbers as a result.  Capped honey does not provide the lure (smell) of uncapped and curing honey, so, my guess would be the honey will be safe if the hive can protect its entrance.  I keep reduced entrances and sometimes robbing screens year around because of the robbing pressure in my area.  HTH   

P.S.  Jen, I let the bees deal with the choice between worker and drone cells.  they will remake the combs according to their needs.  I have no explanation for the number of drone cells you report.

[Jacobs]

Potential guess on drone cells--if the foundation is wax and was undrawn when put in and if it was put in during hot weather, there may be some warping.  This might encourage the bees to draw areas of larger cells where the guide imprints have stretched.  I have seen this on some foundation where drone cells are not in the usual position, but are grouped together.  The bees won't tell me if my guess is correct.

Honey stores for winter in Piedmont NC--we are normally good with 10 medium frames of capped "honey" (real or sugar water) in the top super along with what the bees have stored along the sides in lower supers.  We do have to worry about bees starving, usually in late February, in March or into mid April, because they have many days where they are actively flying but not bringing in stores.  Lifting the front and back of the hive during the winter can give you some idea of weight and the need to feed.  On sunny 50F days, we can pop the outer cover and check the location of the cluster.  If below the top super, all is well.  If the bees are in the top and have eaten a fair amount of honey, consider a shim, newspaper large enough to hold a couple of pounds of sugar but not covering the entire area of the super, and mist some water on the sugar to add moisture (Mountaincamp method of emergency feeding).  Check this fairly often and add to the sugar as needed.  If your nectar flow starts early, you will have burr comb with drone brood to clean up in the shim area, but your bees will not have starved.

[Bakersdozen]

Jacobs, so good to see you on the forum!

[CBT]

Those candy boards are a good backup for a hive. Put a quilt board on top and they are dry and fed with attic insulation. Throw on a pollen patty on the candy board and they have made in the shade. 

[tecumseh]

Basically what my friend Lee says applies here.  What happens is the bees build a honey cap in the peak of the season and then due to the long dearth of summer slowly eat their way upwards into the honey cap and leave the bottom empty.  When there is no brood and little food beyond a small bit of pollen this become a large attractant to wax moth.  In the lat summer I discover hives like this (possible as much as 50% of my 200 hives) via tipping < basicially I tip the hive from the back and the ones where the bottom is empty will 'feel' top heavy.  Like Lee I reverse these and then apply a good bit of feed.

This process also tells you that the 'large' hive you thought you had was not nearly as well populated and well provisioned as you thought...