Swarming AGAIN!

[apisbees]

No hurry, need to get queens mated first and laying good. 2 queening suppresses the swarming urge because there is twice the queen pheromone in the hive. The system draws the bees into the honey supers through the queen excluders. If a queen fails, the hive still has one producing queen. One technique is to get the new second queen working in the top queen brood chamber and in the fall combine both queen chambers and let the new queen take the colony into winter...  Requeening in the spring and leaving the old queen in the hive till late summer.

I will start a thread on 2 queen systems I just gave a presentation on splitting and 2 queen systems at our local beekeepers meeting 2 week ago so I have it partiality done.

[LazyBkpr]

That would be great Apis!

[Jen]

Apis- interesting! It has been suggested to me more than once that I have a swarm happy bunch of bees. I just may need to read up on how to tame my wonderlust girls 

[apisbees]

I have thought that too but they have been kept in a manner that almost any colony would swarm. So I don"t know, I would still give them a chance.
The first year they were kept in a too confined hive and any queen would have swarmed.
The second year they started in the confined hive and then got switched but had to draw out new frames so still dealing with a restricted brood nest.
This year someone was stimulant feeding early in combination with trying to pull the pieced together frames before brood was laid in the frames. 2 things that help the bees to draw comb a good honey flow and warm temperatures. by replacing those frames early when the bees were not readily able to draw the new comb the brood nest was restricted creating congestion.
In all cases I can understand what could have attributed to the bees deciding to swarm.
But as far as I see it every thing is turning out very well for you this year. You have your early split. Natural Mite control. Back up Queen. and all early in the year so they will have time to build up and produce a crop. Not many of us can produce queens this early in the year. just keep a watch for swarm cells though.
I would caution anyone about over stimulating your bees If you do not have a plan and need for the extra bees.

[Jen]

Hi Apis    ""Not many of us can produce queens this early in the year. just keep a watch for swarm cells though.""

This coming Thursday it will be two weeks and I can get into the hives and see if there are any eggs. I'll check for swarm cells too of course.

Now, this is where the postings got controversial when the first swarm happened on March 16. The day before the swarm I did an inspection and noted 6 capped queen cells. I put the hive back together and got on the forum to study what to do. The next day the hive swarmed. Then 2-3 members advised to go into the hive and nab all but 1 or 2 queen cells to avoid cast swarms. Made sense, so I did. Then the controversy started about never removing the qcells as opposed to thinning the qcells. Some cells were on the face of the frame, some were on the bottom of the frame.

Which ones are the swarm cells?

And when I go into the hives on Thurs April 3rd and I find queen cells and swarm cells, what should I do?

[iddee]

And on Thursday, you should have another hive ready, because the bees are not reading the rule book.     

[Jen]

Hi Iddee!    You are Soo Right! I have some rascally wonderlust girls here! 

Thankfully... just the day before this last swarm we came home from a small bee store up the road with bottom boards and lids to go with the 6 mediums that hubby built. At least I was more ready for this one. 

[LazyBkpr]

And on Thursday, you should have another hive ready, because the bees are not reading the rule book.     

   LOL  /Signed...

[apisbees]

This coming Thursday it will be two weeks and I can get into the hives and see if there are any eggs. I'll check for swarm cells too of course.

Now, this is where the postings got controversial when the first swarm happened on March 16. The day before the swarm I did an inspection and noted 6 capped queen cells. I put the hive back together and got on the forum to study what to do. The next day the hive swarmed. Then 2-3 members advised to go into the hive and nab all but 1 or 2 queen cells to avoid cast swarms. Made sense, so I did. Then the controversy started about never removing the qcells as opposed to thinning the qcells. Some cells were on the face of the frame, some were on the bottom of the frame.

Which ones are the swarm cells?

And when I go into the hives on Thurs April 3rd and I find queen cells and swarm cells, what should I do?

The thing about swarm queen cells is that they are capped and remain that way for 6 days. The queen slows down laying in preparation to swarm shortly after the queen cells are caped if the bees keep her from tearing them down. The hive swarms just before the virgin emerges (although weather can speed or delay swarming). Because when you culled some of the cells you may of destroyed the oldest cells and left younger cells in the hive so the timing may be off a little could be 5 days latter so we wont panic if you don't see eggs on Thursday. Thursday could be the egg seeing day for the cast swarm you hived on Friday, the parent hive the queen cell didn't emerge until last Thursday or Friday so I think it may take a week longer.

I cull the shorter ones first. Then keep the ones that look the oldest, the longer the queen is in the cell the darker they appear. With swarm cells it isn't a mater of where the cells are on the frame but how many and what caused the response or the bees to draw out queen cells.
There are 3 methods the bees draw queen cells. The bees feed a larva in a worker cell and float the larva out and build a queen cell down on the surface of the comb. have the queen lay in previously made queen cups. Draw cells from eggs laid along the bottom edge of the combs. The first is found more when the bees need to draw emergency cells. The second 2 are more likely a sign of swarming.

[Jen]

Thanks Apis, that was very interesting 

[Gypsi]

This is all very interesting. Went through my hives yesterday. Hive 2's queen is laying a pretty pattern in the bottom box and the top box has 9 frames partly drawn out being filled with honey, NO idea what nectar they are finding except trees.

Hive 4's queen is laying in the top box, workers and a frame or 2 of drones and there are uncapped queen cups on the bottom of 2 frames, no egg in them. The bottom box is crammed but dusk was approaching and this is a fairly hot hive so I had to get out before I hurt a bee going into the crammed bottom box.  They are a robbing hive as well. I was concerned that they might be overcrowded but at least 5 empty frames in the top box, the drawn out are being drawn as honeycomb, pretty white wax, and laid in.

I suspect she is planning a swarm and soon...

[apisbees]

some of that unaccounted for early nectar that is being found in the hive could be honey being robbed out of dead out colonies, Managed and\or feral.

[Jen]

Okay Iddee, my two week vacation is up Thursday. Mother hive has swarmed twice. I don't want anymore swarms. I don't want a 4th hive, I may get one anyway, but that's not my goal. If I go into my hives and seer eggs ~ and I see queen cells what should I do?

I know that you and riv don't eliminate queen cells...   

[iddee]

But we do remove them. We just make nucs. If you don't want nucs, I guess you have to destroy them. Just be sure you have a queen to go back in there if you destroy one too many. Destroying queen cells is the best way I know to end up queenless.

[Gypsi]

I guess you couldn't mail the queens to me? Cuz my local supplier had a fire ant attack on his mating nucs