Something went wrong, what would you do?

[efmesch]

Toward the end of March I told of an experiment I did when merging two swarms. (http://www.worldwidebeekeeping.com/forum/index.php/topic,595.msg16378.html#msg16378)
I arranged them in the following order:
Floor, deep super with queen, newspaper, queen excluder, deep super with ten frames, newspaper, queen excluder and deep super with a queenright swarm. Top super was set back slightly to allow entrance without having to go through from the bottom.
Today I gave a careful look at the upper two supers.
All the newspapers had been cleared away, no antgonism detected from any of the bees.
Top super:  Queen laying and colony was doing well but little stores of excess honey.
Middle super: NO STORES OF HONEY, ALL FRAMES PLUGGED UP WITH LARGE QUANTITIES OF POLLEN.
It was late in the afternoon and I didn't want to go through the bottom super so I closed up the hive and moved the top super forward so that the only entrance was from the bottom.  I checked the hive in the dark of night.  All the bees that had been collecting at the now closed slot had entered the hive and all seemed normal.

My  questions:  What went wrong and brought about such a vast collection of pollen where honey should have been stored (in my opinion)?
Did I do the right thing by forcing all bees to use a common entrance?
What would you have done or suggest that I do?

[Intheswamp]

Warning, newbie thought coming...

Could the workers have had such a heavy presence of queen pheromones that melded together into one that they thought there was going to be massive amounts of brood to feed and that they needed that much pollen?  I'm not sure about the proportion of pollen to honey in preparing bee bread, though.  Could they have had enough honey in each brood box for the amount of pollen?

Could whatever is going on have something to do with the queen scents wafting into the center box and intermingling but no queen scent present there from actually being left there by a queen (a footprint or poop or eggs or whatever...). 

Ok, my ignorance is probably showing.   But, Efraim, you might want to check this page out...   http://www.beverlybees.com/a-hive-with-two-queens/

Ed

[efmesch]

Ed, I'm no less ignorant than you are on this one. 
I followed your link (nice site) but don't feel that i've found an answer that puts my mind at rest.  I'm not losing any sleep over it---as I said in my original post, I'm doing this as an experiment---but the results so far have totally puzzled me.  Needless to say, I had hoped to get at least some honey from this setup.

[Intheswamp]

Yes, after revisiting the site it does seem shy of productive information.  From what I've read a two-queen colony will produce a very good surplus if it works out right.  Why they filled the center box with pollen is indeed a puzzle...for us, the bees knew exactly what they were doing!

Ed

[apisbees]

The problem is that the bees are in an incredible pollen flow and a much lighter honey flow. Bees store pollen in the brood nest area and honey above. because you have the 2 brood nests the center super according to queen pheromones in the hive is in the brood nest. The bees have brought in enough pollen to feed all the larva and also plug out the center super. it could be worse they could have stored it all in the brood chambers with the queen ans plugged up the brood nest and limited the queens laying space. If you had a supper over the top queen for honey, If there was a surplus nectar flow they would have used it to store the honey.
Note the time of year Might be a good time of the year to place pollen traps on and collect pollen, if they are bringing in that much of a surplus.

[efmesch]

Thanks Apis.  Knew I could count on you for a good explanation and a suggestion.
I'll have to dig out my pollen trap (I might have given it to my grandson--then I'll be in a pickle)   
If I start collecting the incoming pollen, maybe they'll start emptying out what they've already collected.

[apisbees]

Probably not.  they will just bring in more to compensate for what you trap. It is a wast of all the work they did but if you put the frames in water it will cause the bees to remove it because it is contaminated. leave it and the bees will place honey over the pollen and save the frames for the top brood nest for winter. They would be great frames for spring build up.

[Perry]

Excellent advice Apis. I often have frames plugged out with pollen in lower boxes of brood chambers and could apply this as well.

[Intheswamp]

Apis, is the "honey over the pollen" the "wet looking" pollen that I sometimes see in the hives?   Is this a way the bees preserve the pollen for a much later time?

Ed

[LazyBkpr]

The problem is that the bees are in an incredible pollen flow and a much lighter honey flow. Bees store pollen in the brood nest area and honey above. because you have the 2 brood nests the center super according to queen pheromones in the hive is in the brood nest. The bees have brought in enough pollen to feed all the larva and also plug out the center super. it could be worse they could have stored it all in the brood chambers with the queen ans plugged up the brood nest and limited the queens laying space. If you had a supper over the top queen for honey, If there was a surplus nectar flow they would have used it to store the honey.
Note the time of year Might be a good time of the year to place pollen traps on and collect pollen, if they are bringing in that much of a surplus.

   My thought was the same as far as the good pollen but not much nectar..  Went from mid June to late August last year with 0 rainfall, and had a similar issue starting, so I started feeding syrup..   Great explanation Apis, very helpful.
   As stated, the bonus here is freezing a few of those frames for raising queens next spring!

[efmesch]

the bonus here is freezing a few of those frames for raising queens next spring!

Freezing is an option for those who have freezer space.  For those who don't,  all possible precautions must be taken to prevent wax moths from taking over and ruining the whole frame.  There's little that wax moths like more than a frame of honeycomb packed with pollen.

[apisbees]

How true Efmesch I am lucky as we seldom get the true wax moths. They burrow thru the wax but only leave small holes and very little webbing.

Sent from my LG-P500h using Tapatalk 2

[efmesch]

I found my pollen trap and set it up at the lower (only) entrance to the two queen hive.
Here are some pictures.


Here you can see thee setup with the three deep boxes and the pollen trap in front of the bottom brood box.  The drawer for the collected pollen pulls out from the right.  Tonight I'll see how well it does and hopefully get another picture of it for you tomorrow.


The bees are already adjusting to their new pollen trap entrance--this is ten minutes after it was first put in place


These are the stubborn bees, still trying to enter the upper brood box at the former site of the entrance space.  I counted 8 bees with pollen on their legs.  Assumedly, they'l learn to go down below to enter and leave the pollen for me to collect.

[LazyBkpr]

Agreed Ef..  In this neck of the woods a freezer rates right at the top because we are infested with wax moth.

   I have people asking for pollen, I'm going to have to get a pollen trap or four. Looks good, and glad to see you didnt get yourself into a pickle!!   

[jb63]

Good topic Ef, and good explanation Apis.A few of my dead-outs are still packed with pollen.

[efmesch]

I felt like a newbee today---impatiently waiting to be able to see what happened in my hive with the pollen trap.  In my imagination I saw a drawer filled to overbrimming with pollen brushed off of the legs of the homecoming bees.
Well,  these pictures tell of my disappointment.  But after emptying out the little pollen in the drawer, I replaced it on the hive to collect more tomorrow.  I guess, just like honey, pollen accumulates slowly.


It looks like they prefer to enter the hive from the left side.


Collected on the saucer, it may look impressive, but all in all,it's really about one heaping teaspoon of pollen.